Stephanie Brown: Spoiler, Robin, Batgirl Appreciation 2020

[millernumber1]

Here's an idea. You're a writer on Batman or Robin in 2004. You're given the editorial mandate that there has to be a big event with a gangwar where Spoiler is to be killed off. Those two things are absolute, but you are given the chance to decide how these things occur. How do you 'fix it' so that it turns out better than the real War Games and is actually respectful towards the characters?

Interesting idea.

I personally think that it's very near to impossible to kill off a character in a respectful way. One of the only times I've read it was Vic Sage in 52, because it was 1) clearly done out of love for the character, and the character died giving love and hope to another character, rather than failing. Steph's death was so meaningless because she didn't accomplish anything, and failed in every way.

If they could have figured out a way where Steph could have died heroically, actually saving a LOT of people, I think that would have been the best possible death for her. But I think that she shouldn't have died - she was clearly ready to level up, not die. So maybe instead of being captured and tortured, she spies on Black Mask, and dies saving Oracle from him, maybe caught in the blast of the Clocktower exploding as she gets everyone out of the way.

Firstly Steph doesn't initiate the gangwar, but does discover that it is about to happen. Steph manages to kill Black Mask before she dies and prevents further calamity. Batman shows up. He watches surveillance footage of Steph's struggle with Black Mask. Batman realizes there may be times when his "do not kill" theory is unworkable and that Steph realized the same just before she died, doing what Batman would never do, kill. Batman laments that his the edict and Steph's attempt to follow it led to her death. Batman questions himself, finds a Lazarus Pit to bring Steph back as Robin so that he can learn more about being a fallible human being and dealing with unwinnable situations from her.

I don't actually have a huge problem with Steph starting the gang war, mostly because I blame Bruce for screwing with her head and not telling her what she needed to know. And I find the desperation to fix something you broke a very relatable feeling. However, maybe we don't want to make Batman such a huge jerk. In which case, I wouldn't fire her as Robin. I'd have her just be benched, and hope that executing the plan will help out enough that she can go back on official duty (since clearly she doesn't really stop).

My idea is: Tim's father has moved him out of Gotham to get him as far away from Bruce, Batman, and Robin as possible. He still calls Steph from time to time, but since Batman cut her off she's completely alone in the field. The entire scenario is instigated by Balck Mask, with Steph playing no active part in starting the war. Black Mask is looking for a way to both take over the Gotham Underworld and to defeat Batman at the same time. He thinks Spoiler might be the weak link of the Batfamily, so he hires Scarab to tail her. Scarab sees Batman approach Spoiler. Bruce is only there to ask about how Tim is doing since he does care and is cut off now that Tim is out of Gotham, but Scarab and Black Mask take it as confirmation that Spoiler is working with Batman, and after following Steph home Scarab hacks her computer for Black Mask and finds fles from the brief period she was allowed to be in the batfamily. Steph was supposed to delete the files after she was cut off by Batman, but she couldn't do it.

After decrypting the files, Blaxk Mask realizes that while Batman has a contingency for many scenarios, he does not have a plan to deal with a sudden influx of super-weapons into Gotham, namely the 'tiastmakers' which were created by John Henry Irons before he became Steel. Batman had determined that the introduction of such a weapon into Gotham would cause an arms race among the gangs which would lead to an all-out war. Between the toastmakers being too expensive, too difficult to maintain and repair, and most gang-leaders in Gootham being more old-fashioned this has not been a problem before, but now that Black Mask knows what Batman knows he begins poring money into flooding Gotham with toastmakers, selling them to everyone at a huge loss. This is my explanation for how the gangwar got so bad - it was because all the gangs acquired a huge amount of these super-guns.

When the gangwar starts, Batman and the other vigilantes struggle to determine the source of the influx of toastmakers so they can end the war, but with the files he got from Steph's computer Black Mask knows how to keep his operations hidden. Spoiler tries to keep the peace in her neck of the woods, but during a fight with Scarab she learns how her computer was used to cause the war, and feeling responsible she goes after Black Mask. Because Batman had cut her off, she is unable to share with any of the bat-family what she knows and is forced to go herself to the facility where the toastmakers are being imported/produced. She causes enough chaos there to attract Batman and the others to the facility, but is fatally wounded just before they arrive. They are able to stop the influx of toastmakers, effectively bringing an end to the war since the weapons are so high maintenance and difficult to replace.

As she's dying, Steph apologizes for her carelessness causing the war, but Batman tells her that she did good and the last thing he says to her before she dies is that she saved the city. Batman realizes that he is more to blame than Steph, and that if he had treated her with more respect they could have have realized what was happening far sooner, prevented the war from getting so out of hand in the first place, and most of all she would not have had to die to stop it.

Interesting idea. It does have Steph actually die helping, instead of just dying after being tortured. I'm not really sure that if you force Steph to die at the end of the story, War Games is salvageable, since I think that's the dumbest part of the story.

[Chickfighter]

Interesting idea.
I don't actually have a huge problem with Steph starting the gang war, mostly because I blame Bruce for screwing with her head and not telling her what she needed to know. And I find the desperation to fix something you broke a very relatable feeling. However, maybe we don't want to make Batman such a huge jerk. In which case, I wouldn't fire her as Robin. I'd have her just be benched, and hope that executing the plan will help out enough that she can go back on official duty (since clearly she doesn't really stop).

You're no doubt right. I just can't help myself when it comes to making Batman a total jerk ever since he became a caricature of his grim Dark Knight self. I agree with you about Steph dying being perhaps the worst thing about the story. It's a comic story after all and I don't think there is a whole lot to be learned from death, certainly not by the character who dies. Making an eager well intentioned teenager the origin of and central to the story only to kill her at the end seems to be a rather poor choice of character arc for a medium that once purportedly told inspiring uplifting stories of heroism, of good triumphing over evil, of hope facing down despair...
Sorry. Just like that I'm getting worked up again like it's 2005.

[millernumber1]

You're no doubt right. I just can't help myself when it comes to making Batman a total jerk ever since he became a caricature of his grim Dark Knight self. I agree with you about Steph dying being perhaps the worst thing about the story. It's a comic story after all and I don't think there is a whole lot to be learned from death, certainly not by the character who dies. Making an eager well intentioned teenager the origin of and central to the story only to kill her at the end seems to be a rather poor choice of character arc for a medium that once purportedly told inspiring uplifting stories of heroism, of good triumphing over evil, of hope facing down despair...
Sorry. Just like that I'm getting worked up again like it's 2005.

Yeah. I love Steph as Robin so much that I perform kinda weird mental surgery on War Games, pretending that there's a Steph as Robin world where all this stuff happened but Robin 128 never happens, and Steph has lots of adventures as Robin for 10 years.

But when I have to actually read War Games all the way through (like I had to for the wiki...and probably have to do again, since I was unwilling to actually do full summaries, and I'm finally, 6 years after gaining modship, trying to have full summaries on all entries), or worse, have to talk to fans who say "Steph deserved to die and should have stayed dead," then...yeah. I get the frustration and anger.

[Chickfighter]

Yeah. I love Steph as Robin so much that I perform kinda weird mental surgery on War Games, pretending that there's a Steph as Robin world where all this stuff happened but Robin 128 never happens, and Steph has lots of adventures as Robin for 10 years.

Sounds like fun, eventually saving that turkey, Superboy's butt more than once, eventually leading the Teen Titans before upon taking over the mantle of Batgirl!

[Dataweaver]

Yeah; my only concern with a lengthy tenure of Stephanie as Robin is, where does that leave Tim?

[millernumber1]

Sounds like fun, eventually saving that turkey, Superboy's butt more than once, eventually leading the Teen Titans before upon taking over the mantle of Batgirl!

That'd be pretty great!

Yeah; my only concern with a lengthy tenure of Stephanie as Robin is, where does that leave Tim?

An excellent question! I have a couple of ideas here. Most boring would be "he becomes Red Robin." I'd rather give him a new name, like Red-Winged Blackbird (or Blackbird), RedFinch, or something. Less boring would be he becomes Blue Beetle, inspiring Blue Beetle Inc, so we can also include Jaime and more (this is predicated that this happens in 2004-5 or maybe a few years earlier, not today, obviously). And there's my biggest brained one, which is as you know, I have no problem with more than one of a codename, as seen with League of Batgirls that I keep pitching. So TWO ROBINS!

If they did a Batgirl: 60th Anniversary or Batgirl #250 anthology, with 100 pages, 10 stories, 8 pages each, what kind of stories would you look for, what creative teams, etc?For me, I'd want
1) a Bette story (preferably Flamebird, with a reference to her history as Bat-Girl), drawn by Trevor McCarthy (since we probably can't get JH Williams III), written maybe by Rucka, but I dunno if he cares enough to do that.
2) A Babs story as Batgirl, from the Year One era, preferably by Dixon, Beatty, and Martin, since I love Batgirl Year One so much
3) An Oracle story with Birds of Prey - preferably by Simone and Nicola Scott
4) A Babs as Batgirl from the post-Rebirth era story - though Burnside would be more likely, sadly. Mairghread Scott has been best at writing her in that period, but I'm not super excited. I like Carmine di Giandomenico as an artist for her.
5) A League of Batgirls story. This one I'd personally want by Tynion, though Simone and Tynion would both want to put their OCs in, and I would just want the main three. Art...Alvaro Martinez, maybe? I liked Javier Garron, but I wasn't in love with his version.
6) A Cassgirl story by either Scott Peterson, Kelley Puckett, or Dylan Horrocks, with art by Damion Scott
7) A Stephgirl story by BQM (this one is a NO BRAINER) and any of Lee Garbett, Pere Perez, or Dustin Nguyen (NOT Ramon Bachs)
8) A Nyssa from Batman Beyond story by Scott Peterson
9) A Carrie Kelley as Batgirl story by Frank Miller with art by Andy Kubert or Rafael Grampa
10) I also want another Stephgirl story, because I'm me.

[Dataweaver]

Nitpick: Carrie Kelly was never Batgirl. In Dark Knight Strikes Back, Miller had her abandon the Robin identity and become Catgirl; then in the Master Race, she became Batwoman.

It's largely a moot point, as Miller likely wouldn't consent to her appearing anyway (just like she got a splash page in the Robin 80-year extravaganza).

[millernumber1]

Nitpick: Carrie Kelly was never Batgirl. In Dark Knight Strikes Back, Miller had her abandon the Robin identity and become Catgirl; then in the Master Race, she became Batwoman.

It's largely a moot point, as Miller likely wouldn't consent to her appearing anyway (just like she got a splash page in the Robin 80-year extravaganza).

I thought between her time as Batman and Batwoman in DK3, her green and pink outfit was Batgirl?

[Dataweaver]

No, that was Catgirl.

[millernumber1]

No, that was Catgirl.

No, that was in DK2, with the leopard spots.

[sunofdarkchild]

If they wanted to really have Steph be Robin in 2004, the way to do it would be to have it be Tim's idea. When he makes his agreement with Jack Drake that he's going to quit in exchange for Jack not outing Batman's secret identity to the world, he straight up tells Bruce that he never fulfilled the role he said Robin should have when he first approached Bruce, as the person who makes Batman take a step back both when charging into danger and from being so dark and moody all the time, but they both know someone who could do that better than Tim ever could. Bruce understands he means Steph. In doing this, Tim knowingly closes the door on his being able to come back as Robin, partly to ensure he keeps his promise to his father and partly because he thinks it's best for Batman. Bruce would then seek Stephanie out to offer her the job and not the other way around, and he'd be serious about it this time because he trusts Tim, and at some point he'd reveal that the real reason he pushed her away was because of the very things that Tim said would make her a good Robin. Since it was Tim's idea, there's no jealousy between him and Steph and he stays in the books since he's both her boyfriend and her predecessor.

[Chickfighter]

If they wanted to really have Steph be Robin in 2004, the way to do it would be to have it be Tim's idea. When he makes his agreement with Jack Drake that he's going to quit in exchange for Jack not outing Batman's secret identity to the world, he straight up tells Bruce that he never fulfilled the role he said Robin should have when he first approached Bruce, as the person who makes Batman take a step back both when charging into danger and from being so dark and moody all the time, but they both know someone who could do that better than Tim ever could. Bruce understands he means Steph. In doing this, Tim knowingly closes the door on his being able to come back as Robin, partly to ensure he keeps his promise to his father and partly because he thinks it's best for Batman. Bruce would then seek Stephanie out to offer her the job and not the other way around, and he'd be serious about it this time because he trusts Tim, and at some point he'd reveal that the real reason he pushed her away was because of the very things that Tim said would make her a good Robin. Since it was Tim's idea, there's no jealousy between him and Steph and he stays in the books since he's both her boyfriend and her predecessor.

Yes, that would have been an excellent way to do some of the same things The Road Home and Bat Inc stories eventually did.

[millernumber1]

Frank Miller just liked my tweet about Carrie Kelley being Batgirl. Not sure what, but my brain is pretty explodey right now.

[Digifiend]

I think you're looking for this emoticon? 🤯

https://emojipedia.org/exploding-head/

[dietrich]

Tom Taylor just tweeted this




he's got a new project he's working on and it looks like Steph is part of it.