Stephanie Brown: Spoiler, Robin, Batgirl Appreciation 2020

[millernumber1]

I remember this interview with Bryan Q Miller, Chuck Dixon and Lee Garbett:

https://comicsventure.com/celebratin...oming-batgirl/

I always wondered what Bryan Q Miller means when he says he has a pitch for a comic with Stephanie.

You know it! I would truly love to see what he could do!

[ohfellow]

Welcome to the Batgirl: Stephanie Brown reread, Week 17! (Schedule starts here: https://community.cbr.com/showthread...=1#post4916669) Today, we're on Batgirl #16, "The Lesson: Grass Before the Scythe, two of two", written by Bryan Q. Miller, pencilled by Dustin Nguyen, inked by Derek Fridolfs, colored by Guy Major, cover by Dustin Nguyen.



Notes: Nguyen adds so many great touches to this story - from the cuteness of Steph sticking her tongue out at the pursuing police

With a magnifying glass I see the tongue, but I certainly smiled at the "PTHPPPP" which is the sound effect that makes.

to the terrifying scene of her falling through the building. Steph’s determination really shows in her willingness to fight through the pain of her shoulder - it’s not quite the absolutely hardboiled fight scenes of Frank Miller, but it’s nice seeing Batgirl has what it takes, and isn’t just a quick fight with gadgets - she pushes through the pain, too. Babs’s pep talk to Steph shows what a good mentor she’s turned into, though her other protege, Wendy, is struggling a lot more.

I definitely don't know what Wendy is doing whispering asides to her dead brother Marvin. It's a bit unhinged.

I don't think of Steph's fall as terrifying thanks to her "Not. My. Best. Plan." I think she'd have more terrified thoughts if she didn't expect to survive. Instead it seems like a pratfall to me - though it should be worse, but I think she's breaking her fall by grabbing onto the latticework of beams.

Cover: Using the classic “Fugitive” and a spotlight pose that’s really reminiscent of Bruce Wayne: Murderer/Fugitive, I really like this particular cover. It’s also used for the original The Lesson (vol 3) trade cover. The specific use of red to outline the buildings and background seems like even more of a reference to the original Dave Johnson cover to the Batman 10-cent Adventure.

Nice references!

Discussion Questions: What do you think about the Order of the Scythe as Steph’s major villains for the second half of her run?

You'd expect the story to continue, but it doesn't return for so many issues that you wonder how many monthly readers remembered much about it. So far, the mix of cult-like figures, executing a needless murder, leaking radiation from a device that powers a speedster - it's convoluted.

How does Blink’s design look?

Bland, especially for a full-color comic. Fine for grayscale. The splash page where he debuts is all b&w. But I think his blurred face behind the frosted visor is an interesting look.

How is the pacing for this arc’s resolution - too quick, or appropriate to get the year started?

Of course except for the "Two of Two" in the story title, no one would know this is the end of the arc. Even that title doesn't mean the story won't continue under another title. You wouldn't know until the next month that things were left hanging.

I wonder what inspired the writing decision. Perhaps an effort to do the TV thing - a Big Bad for the season, or in the case of the old X-Files, mythology episodes to bookend the season premiere and mid-season finale etc., with monsters-of-the-week in-between. But I don't think it works that well here.

There's some fun banter between Steph and Nick - "Detective McCute ... Schtick."

Fantastic cover - Nguyen's splotchy/spongy water colors remain a great fit for Steph's costume. And I think Nguyen's interior pencils are quite good.

[millernumber1]

With a magnifying glass I see the tongue, but I certainly smiled at the "PTHPPPP" which is the sound effect that makes.

I definitely don't know what Wendy is doing whispering asides to her dead brother Marvin. It's a bit unhinged.

I don't think of Steph's fall as terrifying thanks to her "Not. My. Best. Plan." I think she'd have more terrified thoughts if she didn't expect to survive. Instead it seems like a pratfall to me - though it should be worse, but I think she's breaking her fall by grabbing onto the latticework of beams.

Nice references!

You'd expect the story to continue, but it doesn't return for so many issues that you wonder how many monthly readers remembered much about it. So far, the mix of cult-like figures, executing a needless murder, leaking radiation from a device that powers a speedster - it's convoluted.

Bland, especially for a full-color comic. Fine for grayscale. The splash page where he debuts is all b&w. But I think his blurred face behind the frosted visor is an interesting look.

Of course except for the "Two of Two" in the story title, no one would know this is the end of the arc. Even that title doesn't mean the story won't continue under another title. You wouldn't know until the next month that things were left hanging.

I wonder what inspired the writing decision. Perhaps an effort to do the TV thing - a Big Bad for the season, or in the case of the old X-Files, mythology episodes to bookend the season premiere and mid-season finale etc., with monsters-of-the-week in-between. But I don't think it works that well here.

There's some fun banter between Steph and Nick - "Detective McCute ... Schtick."

Fantastic cover - Nguyen's splotchy/spongy water colors remain a great fit for Steph's costume. And I think Nguyen's interior pencils are quite good.

Steph's humor and spirit is great. I think Wendy's stuff with Marvin definitely was a dark tone, part of why BQM kept Steph so consistently bright. You're right that Steph's commentary does make the danger she's in seem a bit less dark, though I think she jokes to hide her terror.

It is a little odd that we have two months of one-shots next, but I guess that's how the schedulling worked out. My guess is that BQM had wanted to use Klarion and Damian, and that's when they become approved by editorial for use.

Nguyen's covers are really nice - a real rival in my mind for Artgerm's for "best cover artist of the run".

[TheCape]

Well if Steph is going to be Batgirl, or one of the Batgirls (i'm pretty sure that Simone had an idea like that in the Future's End one-shot) lets hope that she can beat her old nemesis... gravity!

[Konja7]

Honestly, if Stephanie is one of the Batgirls, I hope her suit is more similar to the Batgirl costume in her solo at the end. The imagen we see is not the final imagen, so it could be some changes.

To be clear, I don't have problem with the suit in the imagen, but it seems just Spoiler with a Batsymbol (although her hood could always be hiding the Bat ears). So, if Stephanie is Batgirl, I want the costume to reflect that.

[millernumber1]

Well if Steph is going to be Batgirl, or one of the Batgirls (i'm pretty sure that Simone had an idea like that in the Future's End one-shot) lets hope that she can beat her old nemesis... gravity!

Gravity, that ever present foe!

Honestly, if Stephanie is one of the Batgirls, I hope her suit is more similar to the Batgirl costume in her solo at the end. The imagen we see is not the final imagen, so it could be some changes.

To be clear, I don't have problem with the suit in the imagen, but it seems just Spoiler with a Batsymbol (although her hood could always be hiding the Bat ears). So, if Stephanie is Batgirl, I want the costume to reflect that.

I mean, my reasoning is that Steph's current Spoiler suit is already basically her Batgirl suit, but with a different head section. So adding the Bat already takes it 90% of the way there.

[Konja7]

Gravity, that ever present foe!



I mean, my reasoning is that Steph's current Spoiler suit is already basically her Batgirl suit, but with a different head section. So adding the Bat already takes it 90% of the way there.

True. Still, I hope the 100% (if not in Batman #100, maybe in the future).

Honestly, the head section (along the Batsymbol) is essentially what makes a Batgirl suit. So, I just want Stephanie suit to look like a Batgirl suit (if Stephanie will be Batgirl).

[millernumber1]

True. Still, I hope the 100% (if not in Batman #100, maybe in the future).

Honestly, the head section (along the Batsymbol) is essentially what makes a Batgirl suit. So, I just want Stephanie suit to look like a Batgirl suit (if Stephanie will be Batgirl).

I can see that - but honestly, if she's part of the "Batgirls" group, even if she also has her individual "Spoiler" name and hood, I'll be happy. It's a neat solution, if that's what they choose to go for.

[Digifiend]

Well if Steph is going to be Batgirl, or one of the Batgirls (i'm pretty sure that Simone had an idea like that in the Future's End one-shot) lets hope that she can beat her old nemesis... gravity!

Yeah, Future's End had Babs train three successors, two of whom were Cass and Steph.

[DropOfSaturn]

I am honestly ready to be completely disappointed by Batman #100 and whatever "plans" Tynion has for her at this point. He's way too close to Snyder, got his start in the New 52, and has put years into only the current version of Steph (the New 52 version) who absolutely hasn't earned the right to wear a Bat and barely even knows any of the other characters besides Tim. It does sting that the only Stephanie that we've had for years, and all we'll have for the foreseeable future, is the one who was only introduced to show how apparently pathetic she is compared to Bluebird. But who knows, maybe when Joker War finally wraps up I'll be eating my words.

[millernumber1]

I am honestly ready to be completely disappointed by Batman #100 and whatever "plans" Tynion has for her at this point. He's way too close to Snyder, got his start in the New 52, and has put years into only the current version of Steph (the New 52 version) who absolutely hasn't earned the right to wear a Bat and barely even knows any of the other characters besides Tim. It does sting that the only Stephanie that we've had for years, and all we'll have for the foreseeable future, is the one who was only introduced to show how apparently pathetic she is compared to Bluebird. But who knows, maybe when Joker War finally wraps up I'll be eating my words.

I would disagree that current Steph hasn't earned the right to wear a Bat. She's had a rocky relationship with the Batman and Batsymbol since Batman Eternal, but I think she's been on a road to a better place since Tec 980, and I would love to see her in the role of a Batgirl again - even as "agent of Batgirl" like Azrael was Agent of the Bat. She's also been much more than just a prop to Harper - yes, Batman Eternal #51 had a very frustrating moment, but there were many great solo heroic moments in Batman Eternal for Steph, and she also had a few great moments in Batman and Robin Eternal, facing off against Scarecrow and the lesser Orphans. And I think she was much more than a "prop for Tim" in Tynion's Detective Comics - yes, her motivations are largely related to Tim, but she demonstrates a lot of competence outside of him - taking down Wrath and his gang, coming up with the plan to take down Brother Eye, and having the right moral decisions that inspire Tim to make his own right decision.

I hope for good things. I think Tynion does care about Steph, as much as he also cares about his own created characters, and I'd like to see him do the same kind of justice he did in Tec 980 again.

[DropOfSaturn]

I would disagree that current Steph hasn't earned the right to wear a Bat. She's had a rocky relationship with the Batman and Batsymbol since Batman Eternal, but I think she's been on a road to a better place since Tec 980, and I would love to see her in the role of a Batgirl again - even as "agent of Batgirl" like Azrael was Agent of the Bat. She's also been much more than just a prop to Harper - yes, Batman Eternal #51 had a very frustrating moment, but there were many great solo heroic moments in Batman Eternal for Steph, and she also had a few great moments in Batman and Robin Eternal, facing off against Scarecrow and the lesser Orphans. And I think she was much more than a "prop for Tim" in Tynion's Detective Comics - yes, her motivations are largely related to Tim, but she demonstrates a lot of competence outside of him - taking down Wrath and his gang, coming up with the plan to take down Brother Eye, and having the right moral decisions that inspire Tim to make his own right decision.

I hope for good things. I think Tynion does care about Steph, as much as he also cares about his own created characters, and I'd like to see him do the same kind of justice he did in Tec 980 again.

Strangely, I'm glad that my bitterness is in the minority here. Maybe it's just from being burned so many times, but after her just acting like a petty moron for his whole 'Tec run, #980 just feels really weird to me. After the initial joy wore off at seeing her and Cass in their old suits and them being acknowledged again, I just started to get a whole different read on that scene. It just feels like firmly establishing that they are in fact separate characters, and that he's gonna use his new version to do her "better" or something (not quite what I mean, but it definitely feels like he has his own plans that predate any sort of return to continuety that may have started with Rebirth). That's after like four separate read-throughs, but my shifted perspective probably had a lot to do with it admitedly.

DC has not been kind at all to the Batkids in terms of continuety. Even though I was happy to see Bruce straight-up referencing Year One and The Man Who Laughs again, all of his sidekicks all just inexplicably act like they never existed in publication before Court Of Owls. So my bitterness is probably just me projecting my anxiety that that's never gonna get fixed, simply because the current Bat staff have sunk so much time and effort into the New 52 Batbooks.

It's a pretty vague and ultimately petty fear, but it's something that started creeping up right as I saw those previews for Issue #100.

[DropOfSaturn]

Again, with any luck this will eventually be proven to just be me being overly paranoid.

[millernumber1]

Strangely, I'm glad that my bitterness is in the minority here. Maybe it's just from being burned so many times, but after her just acting like a petty moron for his whole 'Tec run, #980 just feels really weird to me. After the initial joy wore off at seeing her and Cass in their old suits and them being acknowledged again, I just started to get a whole different read on that scene. It just feels like firmly establishing that they are in fact separate characters, and that he's gonna use his new version to do her "better" or something (not quite what I mean, but it definitely feels like he has his own plans that predate any sort of return to continuety that may have started with Rebirth). That's after like four separate read-throughs, but my shifted perspective probably had a lot to do with it admitedly.

DC has not been kind at all to the Batkids in terms of continuety. Even though I was happy to see Bruce straight-up referencing Year One and The Man Who Laughs again, all of his sidekicks all just inexplicably act like they never existed in publication before Court Of Owls. So my bitterness is probably just me projecting my anxiety that that's never gonna get fixed, simply because the current Bat staff have sunk so much time and effort into the New 52 Batbooks.

It's a pretty vague and ultimately petty fear, but it's something that started creeping up right as I saw those previews for Issue #100.

I think that actually, my enjoyment of Tynion on Steph is the minority. I think that Tynion didn't quite juggle Steph as successfully as he did the other characters in his run, and I do think she was the least well served by it - but I still think she was ultimately well served but it. I can definitely see how you come to the idea that Tynion is saying, "Old Steph sucks, this is the real Steph," and I think that he himself sees her as Spoiler being her "best" self. However, I don't think he really hates old Steph at all. I think the whole arc of Steph rejecting Batman is a deliberate attempt to recreate Steph's outsider status, and build a lot of self-reliance that she was forced to have in pre-Flashpoint continuity. It was sometimes awkward, but I think it's good for Steph to know she can take on legitimate supervillains and win by herself.

The Batfamily is in a really rough spot, because so many of the "big" stories that built the Batfamily as we know it today - Knightfall and No Man's Land - have no real existence anymore. King's Batman run referenced the original Knightfall a lot, but it doesn't definitely say that "Knightfall happened." Azrael was probably never Batman before, per the Intelligence arc, and nearly all of Tim's run other than his origin has been deleted by the squashing of the timeframe. Bendis has done a lot to try to restore that - but that's almost purely from the YJ side, not from his solo series of stories - which is also the vast majority of Steph's history. Maybe Tynion will feel freer to use that history that Bendis has re-incorporated now. I hope so.

[millernumber1]

Welcome to the Batgirl: Stephanie Brown reread, Week 18! (Schedule starts here: https://community.cbr.com/showthread...=1#post4916669) Today, we're on Batgirl #17, "The Lesson: Frogs, Snails & Puppy-Dog Tails...", written by Bryan Q. Miller, pencilled by Pere Perez, inked by Pere Perez, colored by Guy Major, cover by Dustin Nguyen.



Notes: The plot in this issue is mostly an excuse for Steph and Damian to really get to know each other. It’s really straightforward - kidnapping gang, motives never made clear, none of them even named, blah blah blah. The real heart of the story (and there’s so much of it) is showing the reader why Damian is sympathetic, despite his absolute refusal to be kind to anyone. And doing it through Steph’s eyes, who generally takes time to be kind (if in a snarky way) to most people, is a great choice.

This is the issue that turned me from a Damian Wayne hater to a Damian Wayne lover. This one issue. And it’s fantastic, besides. Pere Perez seems to be imitating Chris Burnham’s style (one of the prominent artists who worked with Morrison on his Bat-Epic, and helped define Damian’s look), and also does truly fantastic body language - Steph’s pose when Damian says, “Try to keep up” is priceless. And that pencilled acting is essential to this tale - because that’s how you love the characters. BQM does a pitch perfect job writing parallels, drawing threads through from earlier in the series like little Nell who becomes one of Robin’s friends, but it’s the pairing of that writing with Perez’s amazing artwork (beautifully colored as always by Guy Major, casting a sunny tone on the usually shadow-drenched Gotham) that makes this issue one of the best one-shots in the run

Cover: Nguyen provides a cover as part of DC’s “textless” initiative - very minimal trade dress, white background, really highlighting Batgirl in one pose all by herself. And it’s a great one - Steph, swinging through the air, doing a high kick, smiling broadly. With lovely composition and great detail, this is a standout cover for a standout issue.

Discussion Questions: As always with these one-shots, where would you put this issue compared to #4 (first official night), #13 (Clayface), and #14 (Supergirl)? For myself, it’s way up there, though #4 and #14 are both so strong that they probably rotate in the top spot.

Bonus Comic: A bit of an odd one - Supergirl #60. Readers may remember that Steph doesn’t actually appear in any major way in Supergirl. However, as we detail on the wiki, she was GOING to, before original writer Nick Spencer (currently on Amazing Spider-Man), left the title. We detail the history as exhaustively as we could on the wiki (https://stephaniebrown.fandom.com/wi...rgirl_Vol_5_60), but briefly, Steph was going to appear in a team up between Robin and Supergirl, culminating in a larger team up with a potential new Young Justice team (https://comicvine.gamespot.com/nick-...757533/?page=1 - quotes from Spencer preserved here). You can see Steph’s involvement was going to be quite significant based on the unused covers by Amy Reeder.