Stephanie Brown: Spoiler, Robin, Batgirl Appreciation 2020

[sifighter]

spoilers:

I have no clue what will happen - I honestly thought Steph was just going to die. However, the resurrection hope seems like laying the groundwork for Steph maybe having to stay on earth as part of Talia's group, and coming back in Dead Planet near the end.

end of spoilers

spoilers:

Either that or the resurrection experience drove her mad/hurt her psychologically and Damian and Alfred have just been taking care of her on Earth-2.

end of spoilers

[millernumber1]

Batgirl re-read: Detective #980.

Very cool shadows on the cover, which I may not have seen before.

I guess this just barely qualifies as part of a "Batgirl" re-read!

I'm not that familiar with this arc in Detective - should I pick it up in trades? Are there crossovers I need to be aware of?

I guess that thing that Steph says in Joker War Zone, something like she and Batman haven't always seen eye to eye, refers to the issues between Steph and Bruce in this arc? Doesn't she get really angry with him in this arc and storm off, but then she comes back in the end?

Tynion ended his run on Detective with the hint of bringing back the Batgirls, and then actually did so in the second arc of his current Batman run. It's a story he wants to see through.

Looking back over the re-read:

I found myself becoming kind of critical, mostly over specifics in the storylines. My positive feeling towards the series is from an overall enjoyment of Steph's gritty, determined, even exuberant behavior as Batgirl. As for stories, my favorites are at the start - the "origin story" - and then the way the series wraps up, with some specific issues sprinkled here and there, like Dracula or Klarion. And I loved the Damian/Steph "sibling" relationship. That Damian, and that relationship, was more like the one Tom Taylor is writing than anything in the present continuity.

The largest storyline is certainly the Reapers, and I don't think it worked out that well, though there are some good moments. I definitely don't care for Wendy as Oracle/Proxy, or for that matter anything about Wendy at all. Or how she (and Barbara) bobbed and weaved into and out of the book. That may have been less noticeable when spread over 24 months.

And honestly, if you compare Bryan Q. Miller's storytelling to the work that's been done with the current Batgirl series over the last year or so, it's -- much better!

So, I guess it's farewell for now to the re-read, and thank you to our host for taking us all this way!

Those shadows are such a great detail. I seriously do think this cover (and issue) deserve to be more remembered in the 1000-plus issue history of Detective Comics. But I'm slightly biased.

I included this issue because much as I do have fun with Convergence: Batgirl, I don't like it being the last thing we have of Steph as Batgirl. So I include this because I can make it fit, and because it's just so heartwarming!

I would definitely recommend all of James Tynion IV's run on Detective Comics! This arc is quite good, though I'm not sure how well it stands on its own, since it's literally the second to last issue of the run. The "Batmen Eternal" arc does not have crossovers, though the run as a whole has a couple (Night of the Monster Men, a semi-crossover with Action Comics in A Lonely Place of Living).

Steph's comments about her rollercoaster relationship with Batman actually go all the way through Batman Eternal to Tynion's run - in Batman Eternal, Steph's first meeting with Batman was when she was about 10, and Batman was terrifying her dad in her house at night, which plagued Steph and left her with some deep distrust of Batman, though she was also inspired by him. In Detective Comics, when Tim "died", she lashed out at Batman and left the team, breaking the Batsignal several times and trying to stop villains in a way that didn't lead the police to rely on Batman - though she eventually realized that this was hypocritical. Tim's return brought her back briefly, but then Tim's mental obsession with preventing the dark future where he's Batman drives her away again - and Batman recruited her in the issue before this (979) to help save Tim and the city. So Steph's actually gotten really angry with Bruce and Tim, leading to her leaving the team twice throughout the run.

I do believe that Tynion wants to give Steph and Cass prominance! I very much hope he can get it done as Batman writer, and all the influence that potentially has.

You've been a great help in analyzing the various pieces of the story, costumes and plotting etc! I liked Wendy reasonably well, though not nearly as much as Babs, and I do agree that editorial interference in the book becomes a jarring force with Babs and Wendy being yanked from BQM's reach.

And 100% agreed - BQM's work on a Batgirl solo title is simply orders of magnitude better than the last several runs on Batgirl. Let's hope that someone with a similar drive and skills can take over the title and turn things around!

spoilers:

Either that or the resurrection experience drove her mad/hurt her psychologically and Damian and Alfred have just been taking care of her on Earth-2.

end of spoilers

spoilers:

That is another option, but I think the storytelling makes a bit more sense if Steph was elsewhere.

end of spoilers

[ohfellow]

Heh - sifighter, you might want to edit that to include SOMETHING besides just spoiler-tag hidden content, so that someone would know the topic of the spoilers. Then they can decide whether or not they want to read the spoilers. As it stands, the only way to know what those spoilers are about is to look at them. Or, to be cautious, never look at them ever.

At least maybe indicate that the topic is DCeased Hope at World's End #12.

Just a suggestion .

[millernumber1]

Heh - sifighter, you might want to edit that to include SOMETHING besides just spoiler-tag hidden content, so that someone would know the topic of the spoilers. Then they can decide whether or not they want to read the spoilers. As it stands, the only way to know what those spoilers are about is to look at them. Or, to be cautious, never look at them ever.

At least maybe indicate that the topic is DCeased Hope at World's End #12.

Just a suggestion .

My bad - I started all the spoilers without indications!

[Tsukiakari1203]

I do think it's YA material, and one of the things I am worried about is the kind of writing we're going to get during Future State. I don't like it when TV, film, or novel writers try their hands at comics. And I think it's insulting to comic book writers, who have honed a very specific skill.

Except that if we let only comic writers write comics then BQM wouldn't have written Steph's series. Neil Gaiman wouldn't have created The Sandman and Eve Ewing wouldn't have written the excellent Ironheart series.

[Tsukiakari1203]

Today's Deceased issue does something I wasn't expecting.

I was not ready for that issue of DCeased. Tore my heart out

[Tsukiakari1203]

Maybe it's common knowledge, but apparently Dan Mora did the character designs for some (many? all?) of the Future State Batman characters, and maybe many or all of the others, too. He posted a number of carousels on his Instagram:

Batman, Batgirls, Katana:
https://www.instagram.com/p/CGiZCElFFcB/

Harley Quinn:
https://www.instagram.com/p/CGaMKwYlBVG/

His big poster:
https://www.instagram.com/p/CGXjdPbFz4V/

A few commenters asked about Steph's eye - he said yeah, looks like she lost an eye.

My thought: Ok, a future that might not be. I can stand that. But, DC says some of this will happen, or at least these stories hint at some things that will happen soon. In other words - if that is 2030, we have to get from 2020 to 2030 and it doesn't happen at once. It happens a little at a time. In the case of the Batgirls - well, we see that has just happened. But what happens next?

How can I not worry, in every ongoing appearance, that Steph is going to lose an eye?

And - why?! Why her? It's not just that her arc was always insecure to success back to insecure, but her fate is also to be tortured or maimed?

Isn't it bad enough she's going to cut off her hair?

What other DC heroes have lost an eye, or a limb, or -- any body part? Is it only Batgirls that get killed, tortured, paralyzed, disfigured...?

Don't forget gutted! (I miss Bette)

I actually love Steph with short hair and I don't mind her not having the eye but I wouldn't want it to me main continuity canon.

[Tsukiakari1203]

Alright DCeased Hope at Worlds End #12 is out today, read spoilers at own risk.

spoilers:

I’m not going to bury the lead here, Stephanie dies this issue but apparently that’s not the end of her story. So what happens is that while they are protecting the people Black Manta gets turned and basically kills Stephanie with his laser vision. Damian is sad because as Cassie Sandsmark puts it he lost a sister. However, there is apparently hope because Damian’s mother Talia informs him that there is a one time use only Lazarus pit available and that since Stephanie was never infected with the anti-life equation it’s possible she can be brought back to life. Basically the issue ends with the hope that Talia is going off on a solo mission to bring back Steph. So hard to say if Stephanie’s story will have a happy ending in the DCeased universe but at the very least Taylor is trying to give some hope about it. Let’s just hope that he doesn’t dash it.

end of spoilers

I have hope but I cried and screamed a lot after that issue. Dami's reaction broke my heart. Cassie saying Steph was Damian's big sister was beautful

[Tsukiakari1203]

We shall see! Megan Fitzmartin tweeted that she was really excited that DC approved her use of Steph, but that she's very much a supporting character in Robin Eternal. I don't really fear that Steph's going to lose an eye in current continuity - that would seem pretty extreme, when losing body parts in the future (especially 10 years in the future) seems like a common way to show how Dark and Serious it is.

Thanks for the Mora links! I did not know he was the designer!



Very interesting - I'd have to check my comics to see what they've been like, but I don't recall hearing or feeling such damage.

I do wish DC had some kind of customer service department, but like their marketing, they're not very good at that.



I must admit, I had given up any hope of Steph showing up in Dark Nights: Death Metal, but this is kind of fun! Tony Patrick, most known for Batman and the Signal, does a Duke story, and Cass, Steph, and Tim look really nice in Daniel Sampere's art. I wonder if DC hasn't made an editioral note to all artists about the current costumes. A bit odd, since they clearly made such a note for the Drake suit, and then quickly made a new note for Tim's new Robin/Red Robin suit.

I love Batman and the Signal, it's fun read

[Tsukiakari1203]

I think Talia's plan is going to work, though she herself may not survive it. I think they're setting up Damian coming to terms with the fact that he does consider Steph to be family.

She is his big sister after all.

Yeah, maybe spoilers:

Steph is resurrected, but doesn't return to being Robin, which explains why she hasn't appeared in the other stuff set later on.

end of spoilers

Nightwing? Please let it be Nightwing!

[Tsukiakari1203]

Batgirl re-read: Detective #980.

Very cool shadows on the cover, which I may not have seen before.

I guess this just barely qualifies as part of a "Batgirl" re-read!

I'm not that familiar with this arc in Detective - should I pick it up in trades? Are there crossovers I need to be aware of?

I guess that thing that Steph says in Joker War Zone, something like she and Batman haven't always seen eye to eye, refers to the issues between Steph and Bruce in this arc? Doesn't she get really angry with him in this arc and storm off, but then she comes back in the end?

Tynion ended his run on Detective with the hint of bringing back the Batgirls, and then actually did so in the second arc of his current Batman run. It's a story he wants to see through.

Looking back over the re-read:

I found myself becoming kind of critical, mostly over specifics in the storylines. My positive feeling towards the series is from an overall enjoyment of Steph's gritty, determined, even exuberant behavior as Batgirl. As for stories, my favorites are at the start - the "origin story" - and then the way the series wraps up, with some specific issues sprinkled here and there, like Dracula or Klarion. And I loved the Damian/Steph "sibling" relationship. That Damian, and that relationship, was more like the one Tom Taylor is writing than anything in the present continuity.

The largest storyline is certainly the Reapers, and I don't think it worked out that well, though there are some good moments. I definitely don't care for Wendy as Oracle/Proxy, or for that matter anything about Wendy at all. Or how she (and Barbara) bobbed and weaved into and out of the book. That may have been less noticeable when spread over 24 months.

And honestly, if you compare Bryan Q. Miller's storytelling to the work that's been done with the current Batgirl series over the last year or so, it's -- much better!

So, I guess it's farewell for now to the re-read, and thank you to our host for taking us all this way!

I like the 'Tec story stuff. I love Wendy and wish they would bring her back. I also love Dami and Steph's dynamic.

[Tsukiakari1203]

spoilers:

I have no clue what will happen - I honestly thought Steph was just going to die. However, the resurrection hope seems like laying the groundwork for Steph maybe having to stay on earth as part of Talia's group, and coming back in Dead Planet near the end.

end of spoilers

I hope she comes back

[millernumber1]

Except that if we let only comic writers write comics then BQM wouldn't have written Steph's series. Neil Gaiman wouldn't have created The Sandman and Eve Ewing wouldn't have written the excellent Ironheart series.

Excellent points! I think the problem is that while a good TV or novel writer can write good comics, a medium-skilled tv writer can write...medium comics.

Don't forget gutted! (I miss Bette)

I actually love Steph with short hair and I don't mind her not having the eye but I wouldn't want it to me main continuity canon.

I hope that Steph has enough on the top to be more than a buzz. I'm not a buzz fan for either men or women characters.

I have hope but I cried and screamed a lot after that issue. Dami's reaction broke my heart. Cassie saying Steph was Damian's big sister was beautful

That was indeed a very beautiful moment. Well done. Though I will say that I don't think that Steph really had a big "feat" that we Steph Robin fans can point to.

[Tsukiakari1203]

Excellent points! I think the problem is that while a good TV or novel writer can write good comics, a medium-skilled tv writer can write...medium comics.



I hope that Steph has enough on the top to be more than a buzz. I'm not a buzz fan for either men or women characters.



That was indeed a very beautiful moment. Well done. Though I will say that I don't think that Steph really had a big "feat" that we Steph Robin fans can point to.

I definitely wanted a feat! I do think that they should try and get good tv writers because you do have a point. I'm mixed on buzzcuts. I liked the all purple one she would have sported in Smallville but I definitely prefer there to be actuall hair on the head even if it cut really short like Harper or Earth 3 Steph

[Tsukiakari1203]

I don't particularly like the brown on the costume though