Stephanie Brown: Spoiler, Robin, Batgirl Appreciation 2020

[millernumber1]

Wow, the thread really exploded because of the leaked image!

My (cynical) theory is that they don't really want Stephanie and Cassandra to look like Batgirl.

Batgirl's suit of Cassandra wasn't a "traditional" Batgirl suit. So, they could giver her a new suit pretty similar, because general audience won't necesarily relate that suit with Batgirl.

However, Batgirl's suit of Stephanie is a "traditional" Batgirl suit, so they couldn't give her the cowl since people would instantly associate it with Batgirl.

I have heard that Steph (and probably Cass, but Steph was the specific topic of discussion) has some big plans for 2021, so even if they aren't willing to make a literal league of Batgirls, I think "Batgirls" as an association could be a really good thing for Steph and Cass, if they get regular, solid appearances with decent writing.

I feel like I'll like these costumes better when we see Jorge draw them, this artist style probably is what's making them look off to me.

I really like David Lafuente, but this isn't the best I've seen him lately (I loved his recent issue of Superman: Man of Tomorrow with Venditti - #13). Still good, though, even if it's a huge shift in his style from what he was doing in Batgirl Annual #3 in 2015. I am very excited to see what Jimenez comes up with - I hope there's more than just the big splash we've already seen the black and white inks for.

Steph's first Batgirl costume was Cass's - and all it took for Steph to look like "Batgirl" was for the mask to rip enough for the mouth and cheeks to show.

Meanwhile, I think there's been synergy with Spoiler's costumes - Steph's Batgirl costume derived some elements from her homespun Spoiler costume; and her modern Spoiler costume is derived from her Batgirl costume. The colors can be improved. But yellow might not be a good color to layer on eggplant. Perhaps an outline, like Cass has, would be sufficient.

I'd rather have Steph in the ninja mask than the full face mask, even if it does remind us of N95 masks.

And, if Cass is going to be in the full mask and they will be together a lot, it makes sense that at least one face would be showing, if only for variety on the page. Two of them with fully covered faces could be too much, and there is precedent for putting Steph in this mask rather than in her "Spider-Man" mask.

You don't have to have a cowl to be of the Bat Family. Robins, Nightwing, Red Hood -- not to mention whatever bizarre thing happened to Barbara's cowl. Barbara doesn't even really wear a bat symbol anymore - it's a yellow parachute strap (Murrrphhhhhhhhhhy!).

That is a very good potted history of Steph's costume transitions! Though it kinda skips the Robin costume - though the only continuity there was the thigh belt, if I'm not mistaken.

I also prefer the ninja mask, because I like Steph's hair and eyes. (So much Murphy Batgirl suit hate! I still like it. )

I love that Cass is back in her suit, whether they call her Batgirl, Black Bat or Orphanbat, she never had a solid identity outside of her Batgirl one, so giving her back her symbol is important to the character. Steph on the other hand had a solid personality before Batgirl and while that was an important part of her growth as a character, her being Spoiler is the stronger identity for her. Its not necessary for her to have the prominent bat symbol. Nightwing doesn't, the Robins don't...it shouldn't be necessary for her. My opinion of course for what it matters (to no one but me lol) is she is a stronger character simply as the Spoiler.

I tend to agree with Konja about Steph's profile as Spoiler - I don't think DC will truly develop her past "supporting character" unless she gets some kind of boost in addition to Spoiler. Being Spoiler and a Batgirl might do the trick, though.

I always really liked the Spoiler name and costume. I don't think they should move away from something that works. I get they are trying to include her batgirl history, but a costume change isn't really something she needed. You see a Tim and Cass that have both struggled to find a new name and costume for a long time, but Steph it feels like has both that are unique to her. I just wouldn't be so quick to move away from that, especially in a way that lessens her uniqueness.

That is a good point about Tim and Cass - but it's not like Steph hasn't struggled quite a bit, too. Just not in terms of identity, but in terms of recognition, absolutely.

The problem with Spoiler is that the identity isn't enough popular or recognizable. So, it is pretty likely she will be ignored and relegated by the writers in that identity.

Unlike Robin, the Spoiler alias doesn't have a strong connection with the Batfamily. So, a good amount of fans just ignore she is a member of the Batfamily.

I also don't like the Spoiler alias. People complain about Orphan or Drake, but I don't find Spoiler a lot better. Although that's just my personal opinion.

I agree that Spoiler really struggles in terms of growth and recognition, both in and out of universe. However, I do like the identity - I just think Steph has grown past it.

There are some names that are just too generic. You know if you type Darkseid in a search engine, you'll get a hit! But Spoiler? Well, I just tried and got a link to Stephanie Brown Wikipedia entry around the 20th result, so I wonder if others tried it what they would find.

Orphan name is worse.

Here's a question: were Spoiler fans upset when Steph became Batgirl? I suppose some must have been. But if not, it seems to me to be no-lose. She'd still have Stephanie Brown fans, but also would draw in Batgirl fans. And draw back fans of her Batgirl series that did not follow her in her other roles. Just a thought.

When I see her in her black mask in the background of so many stories recently, I wonder how many casual readers even know who she is. But give her a Bat symbol and every reader will know she's someone worth learning about.

It will be interesting to see if there are name changes. Black Bat is possible, but Violet Bat? Eggplant Bat? Eggbat? (Sorry!)

BTW the way in that image, the way the 2 capes are drawn they seem to me to form a larger image of a bat.

Agreed about the way Lafuente draws the capes - reminds me a bit of V. Ken Marion's use of Steph's cape in the Five Little Robins story a few months back (in Gotham Nights).

As for the reaction of fandom when Steph became Batgirl - I was a fan of Steph, but not a regular single issue reader when Batgirl started, so I wasn't as connected to the immediate fandom at the time. I mostly read in trade, so was several months behind until just a few months before the n52 hit...which, of course, pushed me out of DC comics entirely for two years. But through my fandom archaeology done for the wiki, I think the reaction was mostly positive - tons of Steph fans loved Batgirl, or had their fandom really ignited by the series (I definitely was one of those). However, some of the long-time Spoiler fans were upset. The specific complaints were: 1) Steph is too consistently cheerful, and didn't have the anger and frustration that drove the first five to ten years of her existence. 2) Steph was too "safe" (or possibly generic) - written as a nice everygirl hero, her more uncomfortable aspects like her teen pregnancy, etc, were hidden away (though that was more editorial than BQM). Cass fans also had a lot of frustration at the way Cass was literally put on a bus (but we know that was also editorially mandated too, now, thanks to the Batgirl writers panel).

I very much hope that this Bat-symbol will raise her profile!

It wouldn't be Violet Bat, it would be Purple Bat (and I will take that over Spoiler).

However, I think Stephanie and Cassandra will mantain Spoiler and Orphan with their new oufits.

I think you're correct - but I think they could be part of a larger sub-group called the Batgirls, which I think will be helpful.

There is another problem with the Spoiler name - try posting an old cover or splash page on Reddit r/comicbooks or r/DCcomics. Because the word Spoiler is in the thread title, it'll automatically be flagged as a spoiler. In error, if it's not from an issue that just got released. There's also a running gag whenever a CBR article is posted on r/DCcomics - CBR is known for putting [SPOILER] in article titles to hide someone's identity until you read the article. Of course, people joke about whatever the spoiler is happening to Steph, because her name is Spoiler.

That is an interesting problem, though I kinda like that people joke about Steph being the one referred to in all the Spoiler articles. Keeps the character alive.

I'm partial to Violet Vindicator

Batgirl #50 fistbump! I also like Purple Urbex Hobbyist, from Night of the Monster Men, but it doesn't quite roll off the tongue.

I'm fine with Spoiler, but I'd rather the full face mask come back.

Frontier will rep the full face mask for all of us.

[millernumber1]

I would vote to show her eyes.
Stephanie Brown has always been a joyful, emotive character and it’s much easier to portray that when you can see her eyes. More fun- and often funny- as well, to experience her reactions more easily.
It also makes her distinct from Cassandra, who appropriately wears a full face mask. She is the machine-like, emotionless League of Assassins-trained martial artist when in costume.

In fact, if there is to be a ‘Batgirls’ team, I think that it would be cool to have one Batgirl with a mask that covers the upper half of her face (Barbara), one with a mask that covers the lower (Stephanie), and one that covers the entire (Cassandra).

That's a pretty cool idea - sort of like a Batgirls version of the see no evil/speak no evil/hear no evil meme.

The Purple is as Symbolic in Steph as the Blue in Nightwing or the Red in Red Hood..

For this her symbol is in purple

Steph mask is different too.. Is like she is wearing one "good mask" against Joker venom.

That's a really good point - the filter mask (as pointed out in Batman Eternal #24) is really important in a chemical warfare environment!

[Konja7]

I have heard that Steph (and probably Cass, but Steph was the specific topic of discussion) has some big plans for 2021, so even if they aren't willing to make a literal league of Batgirls, I think "Batgirls" as an association could be a really good thing for Steph and Cass, if they get regular, solid appearances with decent writing.

I really hope there are big plans for 2021. It would be nice to have regular appearances for Stephanie.

[Frontier]

I also prefer the ninja mask, because I like Steph's hair and eyes. (So much Murphy Batgirl suit hate! I still like it. )

If we're going to get her hair and eyes, we may as well get her mouth too. The ninja mask makes her constantly look angry. I liked how we just got a glimpse of her hair whenever the hood was down, but that's just me.

Fans can't seem to make up their mind whether they prefer the Murphy suit to the Burnside suit although I think a majority just want the cowl back (and prefer the Three Jokers design).

I tend to agree with Konja about Steph's profile as Spoiler - I don't think DC will truly develop her past "supporting character" unless she gets some kind of boost in addition to Spoiler. Being Spoiler and a Batgirl might do the trick, though.

I think more feature roles and quality writing makes up for whatever identity a character has, but that's all dependent on where editorial's head is at.

I agree that Spoiler really struggles in terms of growth and recognition, both in and out of universe. However, I do like the identity - I just think Steph has grown past it.

I don't personally see a limit to Spoiler, at least as it is now.

I very much hope that this Bat-symbol will raise her profile!

I don't think the symbol goes with the Spoiler parts of the costume, so if she keeps it I kind of hope they just make it her Batgirl costume then.

Frontier will rep the full face mask for all of us.

Happy too .

[millernumber1]

If we're going to get her hair and eyes, we may as well get her mouth too. The ninja mask makes her constantly look angry. I liked how we just got a glimpse of her hair whenever the hood was down, but that's just me.

Fans can't seem to make up their mind whether they prefer the Murphy suit to the Burnside suit although I think a majority just want the cowl back (and prefer the Three Jokers design).

I think more feature roles and quality writing makes up for whatever identity a character has, but that's all dependent on where editorial's head is at.

I don't personally see a limit to Spoiler, at least as it is now.

I don't think the symbol goes with the Spoiler parts of the costume, so if she keeps it I kind of hope they just make it her Batgirl costume then.

Happy too .

I mean, I won't say no to her Batgirl design either, but I also genuinely like her ninja mask (if they'd let her keep it on - from 2016-2018, artists would never let her keep it on for a whole fight scene).

Perhaps the popularity of Three Jokers will lead to that becoming the new Batgirl suit. I'd be interested in that.

Could you elaborate a bit more on why you don't think Spoiler is a limitation right now? It feels very much to me like the writers think that Spoiler is only a supporting role, and I think Steph can be a main role instead.

[Katana500]

I wonder who will actually give Steph and Cass the new suits. I'm expecting Bruce to make an appearance in their story to give them the symbol. But if it's not him I guess it could be Barbara.

[millernumber1]

I wonder who will actually give Steph and Cass the new suits. I'm expecting Bruce to make an appearance in their story to give them the symbol. But if it's not him I guess it could be Barbara.

What if...they rebel and take the symbol themselves?

[Katana500]

What if...they rebel and take the symbol themselves?

That could also be an option.

Just might be a bit odd for them to decide to change costumes themselves in the middle of a crisis. Like if they made them themselves why not wear it before.

[Frontier]

I mean, I won't say no to her Batgirl design either, but I also genuinely like her ninja mask (if they'd let her keep it on - from 2016-2018, artists would never let her keep it on for a whole fight scene).

Maybe they subscribe to wanting a more expressive Steph too .
Perhaps the popularity of Three Jokers will lead to that becoming the new Batgirl suit. I'd be interested in that.

Could you elaborate a bit more on why you don't think Spoiler is a limitation right now? It feels very much to me like the writers think that Spoiler is only a supporting role, and I think Steph can be a main role instead.

I don't think that's because of her identity but more how DC views any Bat-character who isn't a core Batfamily member.

[Konja7]

I wonder who will actually give Steph and Cass the new suits. I'm expecting Bruce to make an appearance in their story to give them the symbol. But if it's not him I guess it could be Barbara.

Well, the Clock Tower appear in the image, so I guess Barbara is related.

Although Bruce is on his "I want to be better with my companions" mode, so he is probably also involved.

[millernumber1]

I don't think that's because of her identity but more how DC views any Bat-character who isn't a core Batfamily member.

I think that might be a bit of chicken or egg problem.

The big point I'm making is that there is currently a problem. Hopefully one that's going to be fixed for the next year, but, still.

[adrikito]

It seems that someone added the batsymbol in one Steph image that I am unable to remember now..

stephanie brown spoiler batsymbol.jpg

This image source pinterest:

https://www.google.com/search?q=step...rVl3EbWJP2JRoM

millernumber1 I think that this image would be worthy to be in the first post of the future STEPHANIE BROWN 2021 APPRECIATION

[Dataweaver]

I'm hoping that when Death Metal is done and the new timeline is established, they'll say that everything happened, including Stephanie's Batgirl run. The easiest way to make it all work was demonstrated in Speed Metal: Jay is back, but even with his return, he's still been gone: he wasn't around for Flash War, and had to be told about it by those who were there. How does that translate to Stephanie? Simple: recast Dr. Manhattan's theft of a decade as “merely” memory alteration: it all happened; but from just after the end of her Batgirl run until “now”, everyone's memories were altered and have just been restored.

[millernumber1]

I'm hoping that when Death Metal is done and the new timeline is established, they'll say that everything happened, including Stephanie's Batgirl run. The easiest way to make it all work was demonstrated in Speed Metal: Jay is back, but even with his return, he's still been gone: he wasn't around for Flash War, and had to be told about it by those who were there. How does that translate to Stephanie? Simple: recast Dr. Manhattan's theft of a decade as “merely” memory alteration: it all happened; but from just after the end of her Batgirl run until “now”, everyone's memories were altered and have just been restored.

I would love that kind of solution, but honestly, they should have STARTED with that. Rebirth gave them that ability, but Johns held them back, so they couldn't come up with solutions like Tynion, Snyder, Bendis, Williamson, King, etc, did eventually.

[Dataweaver]

They didn't, because Didio.

That said, I'm not so much interested in woulda coulda shoulda, and am now interested in “what next?” Now that Didio is out of the way and repairs can be made (until the new bosses step in and screw everything up again), what can be done to fix things?