Stephanie Brown: Spoiler, Robin, Batgirl Appreciation 2020

[Dataweaver]

She's actually the second girl sidekick he's had, but the first wasn't a Robin (Cassandra, who of course was Batgirl instead).

Cassandra wasn't really Bruce's sidekick. To the extent that she was anyone's sidekick, she was Barbara's.

The Batgirls have never been Batman's sidekick, even going all the way back to Betty Kane. When the DCAU moved Barbara into the Batcave, it was a first.

[millernumber1]

Cassandra wasn't really Bruce's sidekick. To the extent that she was anyone's sidekick, she was Barbara's.

The Batgirls have never been Batman's sidekick, even going all the way back to Betty Kane. When the DCAU moved Barbara into the Batcave, it was a first.

I agree. The whole point of Batgirl #22 was that Steph wasn't a sidekick - which had downsides in not being a closer relationship with Batman, but also upsides in that Batgirl is a solo hero.

I wouldn't say Cass was either Bruce or Babs's sidekick's. She was their apprentice or squire or lieutenant. Independent, but still training. Just as Steph was.

[Dataweaver]

Yeah; my point was that Barbara was Cassandra's mentor. And if you squint hard enough, “X is my mentor” can kind of look like “I am X's sidekick”. Certainly, it holds the other way around: if you are X's sidekick, then X is your mentor.

Stephanie was Bruce's sidekick, for the duration of her time as Robin. She was not his sidekick in any way, shape, or form before or after that. The only other time she came close was when she was a Knight, as Bruce was kinda sorta a mentor to her, along with everyone else on the team; and even then, I wouldn't call her a sidekick.

[millernumber1]

Yeah; my point was that Barbara was Cassandra's mentor. And if you squint hard enough, “X is my mentor” can kind of look like “I am X's sidekick”. Certainly, it holds the other way around: if you are X's sidekick, then X is your mentor.

Stephanie was Bruce's sidekick, for the duration of her time as Robin. She was not his sidekick in any way, shape, or form before or after that. The only other time she came close was when she was a Knight, as Bruce was kinda sorta a mentor to her, along with everyone else on the team; and even then, I wouldn't call her a sidekick.

I mean, it's hard to call Cass or Steph Babs's "sidekick" in titles where they were Batgirl, the title character. But I agree that the reverse is true.

I think being a team member means that you're not really a sidekick, at least the way they setup the team of the Knights. And I 100% agree that Steph was Bruce's sidekick - but that doesn't preclude her from being the protagonist of Robin for those three issues.

[Aahz]

When Tim became Robin, he was about 12-14, I think.

Tim was 13 in an lonely Place of dying, Roughly 14 around the time of his second mini Series, 15 during No Man's Land (maybe also earlier but there it was afaik first referenced),16 around Hush and 17 as Red Robin.

Stzeph was iirc depending on what story you are reading and between the same age as Tim and up to 2 years older.

[Frontier]

Cassandra wasn't really Bruce's sidekick. To the extent that she was anyone's sidekick, she was Barbara's.

The Batgirls have never been Batman's sidekick, even going all the way back to Betty Kane. When the DCAU moved Barbara into the Batcave, it was a first.

Batman mentored Cass, but the Batgirls have never been attached at Batman's hip the way the Robins are, although I think they still fall under the sidekick designation at least in a supporting hero sense even if their exact connection with Batman depends on the version and the time period.

[Restingvoice]

Well, Bleeding Cool believes that Steph's time as Batgirl was erased. Aside from not mentioned in the New DC Timeline a way back, it's also not mentioned in her Robin bio in comparison to Dick, who despite not having a Batman story in the Robin 80th collection, his time as Batman is still mentioned in his bio.

[millernumber1]

Well, Bleeding Cool believes that Steph's time as Batgirl was erased. Aside from not mentioned in the New DC Timeline a way back, it's also not mentioned in her Robin bio in comparison to Dick, who despite not having a Batman story in the Robin 80th collection, his time as Batman is still mentioned in his bio.

Bleeding Cool is horrible gossip rag that enjoys making people unhappy. And if Rich comes in here to "defend his honor", please ignore him.

I think it is troubling that DC is being stupid about Steph's time as Batgirl, but as I said, I don't think borrowing trouble is a good idea. We are still getting comics that were very much under Dan Didio's influence, and until at least July or even September (if the industry doesn't suspend publishing for a while) I think we should just wait and see.

[Gotham citizen]

I think in this moment anyone can say what is in continuity and what isn't; not even the DC itself.

[Dataweaver]

Exactly. There's what Didio had in mind, and there's what will happen now that he's gone.

[Digifiend]

Well, Bleeding Cool believes that Steph's time as Batgirl was erased. Aside from not mentioned in the New DC Timeline a way back, it's also not mentioned in her Robin bio in comparison to Dick, who despite not having a Batman story in the Robin 80th collection, his time as Batman is still mentioned in his bio.

Dick's stint as Batman was always in continuity in New 52.

[adrikito]

who doesn't want to live in this timeline?



it was never outright stated that steph didn't know his identity. In robin #126, he says "none of the big secrets", but it's possible that she did know. I think the intent was that she didn't, since he wore the cowl in her training scenes - but i have no real difficulty thinking she did know. She still wouldn't know about matches malone, which is the only key piece she needed to be ignorant of.

I still want one timeline that confirms Steph as batgirl.

Funny story..

Um, Steph did get a heartfelt story about her determination to prove to batman she was capable but also that she wasnt like the other Robin's. It was a fun quirky story which personified Stephanie Brown. Yeah it had a couple of pages about her clothes...but the reasoning in that was also to highlight she was NOT ZDick, Jason or Tim...she is different. I thought it was a great little story.
On the art side, Damion's art is more stylized than when he originally drew her, but it wasnt bad at all.

I am with you. I think the same.

[adrikito]

i don't want to borrow trouble just yet. Just want to sent positive vibes because of the new stephanie brown content, especially as robin, one of my favorites who never got enough stories. Not that you're wrong, but i hope that it's just the last gasp of didio's misguided reign, and hopefully wiser heads will prevail.

I don't think it was really trying to fit into the timeline today - all of these stories were love letters to specific things, and this was a love letter to steph's time as robin, which was very rooted in 2004.



She did! I think that the original intent was that steph didn't know bruce was batman, but it was never said outright, so i'm okay with this slightly retconning it. As long as she doesn't know matches malone, that's all that really matters to keep it in continuity.

Also, damion scott has commented on his original steph design:

https://twitter.com/damionscott2/sta...68495349014531


"i usually don’t respond to stuff like this but i have to. If my version of steph is a bit busty it’s because when i drew her back in the day she was batgirls(cassie)sidekick. Batgirl being on the waifish side i decided to make steph more busty for contrast and nothing more."

hahahaha..

Young Justice #18:

For a moment I thought that he was DICK GRAYSON and not Tim

[ohfellow]

I think in this moment anyone can say what is in continuity and what isn't; not even the DC itself.

I think Bendis just referenced this on Instagram.

https://www.instagram.com/p/B9-5-MxJ6e_/

Although I admit I am not entirely sure how to interpret his comment.

Someone commented:

"Also I wonder how many writers will incorporate what’s happening now in future comic storylines..."

And Bendis responded:

"Actually so many of us are writing things away from reality. We were doing it already. Escaping this broken nonsense to a place we would rather be even if it’s filled with evil magic or alien armadas "

"Away from reality"? "Broken nonsense"? I guess he means restrictions on continuity.

While I've been confused about the crossovers taking place at the moment - Snyder/Tynion work with the Justice League and Lex Luthor did not seem to sync up with what Bendis was writing - I like it that different characters from different eras are popping up.

There have been many, many references in many, many books that this is intentional. The Flash Forward epilogue in the recent Flash anniversary special directly referenced it - a couple of pages showing images of pre-crisis and post-crisis, New 52. Mentions that Teen Titans formed; then formed again. Different Wonder Girls. There was a Wally. Then 2 Wallys. Etc. etc.

Continuity is "confused " because DC wants all stories to be valid, all characters to be used. It's kind of the fulfillment of the promise of Rebirth.

DiDio was around when Bendis started Young Justice. Which launched immediately into an "impossible" continuity.

And, DiDio obviously greenlit Steph getting a story, her own cover, and a pin-up page in the Robin special.

I still want one timeline that confirms Steph as batgirl.

Didn't we already get that in Detective #980? And Zatanna woke up Tim's memories of that timeline. There must be a reason Bendis had that Steph's memories didn't unlock as well. Maybe he's holding an idea in reserve, or was asked by the Bat Office to not go that far. (Which may be why he created a Batwoman on Earth-3.)

[adrikito]

OHFELLOW YOU FORGOT ONE IMPORTANT THING..

The image is in color:

Screen Shot 1988.jpg

Didn't we already get that in Detective #980? And Zatanna woke up Tim's memories of that timeline. There must be a reason Bendis had that Steph's memories didn't unlock as well. Maybe he's holding an idea in reserve, or was asked by the Bat Office to not go that far. (Which may be why he created a Batwoman on Earth-3.)

I think that they only that they learned here is that they were BATGIRLS in another timeline..

Bendis was able to add her as ROBIN again and she appeared in the 80th robin anniversary too..