Stephanie Brown: Spoiler, Robin, Batgirl Appreciation 2020

[DragonPiece]

Sounds like a lot more tim and stephanie content is coming up in Young Justice, based on this Bendis answer in his Q&A https://twitter.com/onlymearibee/sta...37374790402048

makes me wonder if the plans the two were going to have in the bat books were scrapped, since Bendis originally said he wasn't going to get to do a lot more with them..

[sunofdarkchild]

Welcome to the Batgirl: Stephanie Brown reread, Week 5! (Schedule starts here: https://community.cbr.com/showthread...=1#post4916669) Today, we're on Batgirl #5, "Batgirl Rising: Core Requirements part 1 of 3", written by Bryan Q. Miller, pencilled by Lee Garbett, inked by Sandra Hope and Oliver Nome, colored by Guy Major, cover by Phil Noto.


After a successful donning of the mantle, and a brilliant first patrol issue, Steph meets some major challenges. This arc has some of the most remembered interactions with Damian, but the villains and plotline don’t seem to be nearly as remembered. Steph, after a successful (though often due to luck) first night of patrol, struggling with Firefly knock-off Diesel. Her self-doubt is only fueled when Batman and Robin show up and dismiss her...and then she has to save Robin, though she does so very clumsily. The character interactions with Damian, Dick, and Babs are sharply drawn, and the plot, though not super memorable, is nicely connected - unlike the first three issues, everything fits together neatly, but still feeling organically. Something I noticed this time that didn’t really register the first time was just how angry Babs was when she met Nick - which is a nice continuation of Babs being so angry after the breakup of the Birds of Prey and the failure of Oracle: The Cure. It’s nice that a character thread isn’t to neatly broken with Babs’s growing relationship with Steph - there’s a real sense that BQM has long term arcs in place for his main cast members, and he juggles it all really well.

Lee Garbett is back on art, with Sandra Hope listed as primary inker - and I think it’s an improvement - the inking is much smoother than the first three issues, leading to stronger humor and cooler action beats. The three panel sequence where Steph first says her trademark “There’s room for hope in our line of work”, then storms off in a huff when Damian mocks her is an impressive tonal shift - from sincere and corny to pure Peanuts Lucy (Damian) vs. Charlie Brown (Steph) - there’s even a cute oversimplification of the way the two are drawn to capture that simple feeling of a newspaper strip. The scene where Steph in slip and trenchcoat takes down two thugs with a table is beautifully done - Garbett was great back then, and I’m glad he’s gotten attention now with things like Skyward, just as Pere Perez (Rogue and Gambit: Ring of Fire) and Dustin Nguyen have too.

Phil Noto’s cover for this issue was used for original trade volume - a really great one, with rich colors and full body view of Steph’s suit.

What do you think of Steph’s first meeting with the new Dynamic Duo? How does this issue rank compared to the preceeding four?

Bonus Issue: World’s Finest #3, writer Sterling Gates, penciller Jamal Igle, cover Phil Noto.



The first team up of this Batgirl and Supergirl! Generally delightful, though the treatment of Catwoman is a big off note for me after how kind Selina was to Spoiler in War Games.

Babs did a terrible job defending Steph. Steph analyzed the situation and figured out how not to fight the bad guy. Batman and Robin showed up with guns blazing and instantly made the situation worse and more explosive, and she diffused the entire situation with the one side effect of freezing Damian. How hard is it to point out that they were the ones who messed up and if they either listened to Batgirl or not been all 'punch first ask questions later' that wouldn't have happened. Dick and Damian were the ones who were reckless and nearly got Robin killed, not Steph.

Steph's interactions with Damian are always gold.

[Masterff]

Questions:

1. Did I understand it right and Tim will get a new Code-Name and new Outfit and Drake is just temporarily?
2. Tim becomes the leader of YJ?

I personally prefer Cassie as leader, but I am glad that there is a chance for Cassie/Conner to come back..

[millernumber1]

Sounds like a lot more tim and stephanie content is coming up in Young Justice, based on this Bendis answer in his Q&A https://twitter.com/onlymearibee/sta...37374790402048

makes me wonder if the plans the two were going to have in the bat books were scrapped, since Bendis originally said he wasn't going to get to do a lot more with them..

Interesting that twitter user posting about this, since they're really nasty about Steph generally.

But Bendis's answers in that Q&A were fun - I didn't directly ask about Steph myself, but I did mention that I was enjoying his writing of her.

Given Tom King's answer a week or so ago, it sounds like the Bat office has no idea what they're doing when it comes to Steph, which is disappointing, but as I am very much enjoying Steph in Young Justice, I'm okay with her having a home there for a while. And it sounds to me like it's gonna be a fun story.

Babs did a terrible job defending Steph. Steph analyzed the situation and figured out how not to fight the bad guy. Batman and Robin showed up with guns blazing and instantly made the situation worse and more explosive, and she diffused the entire situation with the one side effect of freezing Damian. How hard is it to point out that they were the ones who messed up and if they either listened to Batgirl or not been all 'punch first ask questions later' that wouldn't have happened. Dick and Damian were the ones who were reckless and nearly got Robin killed, not Steph.

Steph's interactions with Damian are always gold.

I agree that Babs didn't do a good job defending Steph - but this is only their first few weeks working together - they didn't have a ton of interactions previously, and she's known Dick for more than a decade, so that relationship makes sense to be more on her mind. I like that issue #3, as heartwarming as it was, didn't magically make Steph and Babs best friends. BQM makes the relationships matter because they take time and feel real.

And I agree that Dick and Damian were more to blame - but I think while Steph did save the day, she did so in the clumsiest way possible, so she's not perfectly blameless.

Damian and Steph's interactions are really, really funny. So sharply written.

Questions:

1. Did I understand it right and Tim will get a new Code-Name and new Outfit and Drake is just temporarily?
2. Tim becomes the leader of YJ?

I personally prefer Cassie as leader, but I am glad that there is a chance for Cassie/Conner to come back..

Bendis says that Drake and the costume are a "phase" - dunno what's gonna happen in the comic, though.

[Jackalope89]

Interesting that twitter user posting about this, since they're really nasty about Steph generally.

But Bendis's answers in that Q&A were fun - I didn't directly ask about Steph myself, but I did mention that I was enjoying his writing of her.

Given Tom King's answer a week or so ago, it sounds like the Bat office has no idea what they're doing when it comes to Steph, which is disappointing, but as I am very much enjoying Steph in Young Justice, I'm okay with her having a home there for a while. And it sounds to me like it's gonna be a fun story.



I agree that Babs didn't do a good job defending Steph - but this is only their first few weeks working together - they didn't have a ton of interactions previously, and she's known Dick for more than a decade, so that relationship makes sense to be more on her mind. I like that issue #3, as heartwarming as it was, didn't magically make Steph and Babs best friends. BQM makes the relationships matter because they take time and feel real.

And I agree that Dick and Damian were more to blame - but I think while Steph did save the day, she did so in the clumsiest way possible, so she's not perfectly blameless.

Damian and Steph's interactions are really, really funny. So sharply written.



Bendis says that Drake and the costume are a "phase" - dunno what's gonna happen in the comic, though.

Like I said; Tim's next title will be Darkwing Duck! With Steph choosing the color for his outfit.

[millernumber1]

Like I said; Tim's next title will be Darkwing Duck! With Steph choosing the color for his outfit.

I mean, the world needs a purple Robin. (Gotham Girl doesn't count.)

[Gotham citizen]

Like I said; Tim's next title will be Darkwing Duck! With Steph choosing the color for his outfit.

Duck Avenger is a better name.

[ohfellow]

I think the costume and name were intended to stick, but the audience feedback was overwhelmingly negative. Steph was made the audience proxy.

But if I recall correctly, didn't Tim come out with that costume after the visit to Earth-3 Stephwoman's Batcave? He's just wearing it in Young Justice #10. So Steph is completely responsible for Tim's costuming.

[ohfellow]

Batgirl #5 re-read:

I come down on the side that Steph saved Damian, and that Dick's attitude about it was over the line. I think the icing was a decent solution, under the circumstances. Damian is on the verge of being incinerated - and it's his own fault, as his kick and face pounding has detached the gas line behind Diesel's head, and that's the gas that's about to explode.

(No idea how Dick, who is flying towards Damian, avoids incineration, unless Steph also iced him.)

Maybe there's some misplaced anger:

Dick is angry with Babs and takes it out on Steph.
Babs is angry with Dick and takes it out on Nick.

It's possible Dick and Damian only showed up to save Steph. After all, Gordon says none of his men were stupid enough to head into the fire - which could be interpreted as saying she was the only one with the courage to head in, which is what I thought it meant previously, or that it was a dumb thing to do, which I'm now more inclined to believe. Why did she even go into the fire? Did she think there was someone in there to rescue?

Despite the anger, there's some good comedy here: Damian and Steph by the tree, Steph in the diner, and Diesel himself is a loud idiot with no sensible plan for getting out of this mess alive.

Another funny moment: "Susie -- look!" (I hope Steph is just hanging upside down and isn't actually hurtling headfirst towards the ground.)

And I'll never not find a "Gah!" funny (when Jordana surprises Steph in the library).

I'll be re-reading World's Finest soon...

[millernumber1]

I think the costume and name were intended to stick, but the audience feedback was overwhelmingly negative. Steph was made the audience proxy.

But if I recall correctly, didn't Tim come out with that costume after the visit to Earth-3 Stephwoman's Batcave? He's just wearing it in Young Justice #10. So Steph is completely responsible for Tim's costuming.

Well, it's Steph of Earth-3, not Steph of our universe! So while Steph as Batwoman still has her moral center, she has apparently lost all her fashion sense to compensate.

Batgirl #5 re-read:

I come down on the side that Steph saved Damian, and that Dick's attitude about it was over the line. I think the icing was a decent solution, under the circumstances. Damian is on the verge of being incinerated - and it's his own fault, as his kick and face pounding has detached the gas line behind Diesel's head, and that's the gas that's about to explode.

(No idea how Dick, who is flying towards Damian, avoids incineration, unless Steph also iced him.)

Maybe there's some misplaced anger:

Dick is angry with Babs and takes it out on Steph.
Babs is angry with Dick and takes it out on Nick.

It's possible Dick and Damian only showed up to save Steph. After all, Gordon says none of his men were stupid enough to head into the fire - which could be interpreted as saying she was the only one with the courage to head in, which is what I thought it meant previously, or that it was a dumb thing to do, which I'm now more inclined to believe. Why did she even go into the fire? Did she think there was someone in there to rescue?

Despite the anger, there's some good comedy here: Damian and Steph by the tree, Steph in the diner, and Diesel himself is a loud idiot with no sensible plan for getting out of this mess alive.

Another funny moment: "Susie -- look!" (I hope Steph is just hanging upside down and isn't actually hurtling headfirst towards the ground.)

And I'll never not find a "Gah!" funny (when Jordana surprises Steph in the library).

I'll be re-reading World's Finest soon...

I think she realized that someone was in there causing the fire, and wanted to stop them. I don't quite think it's dumb, but she clearly wasn't at a level where she could do so quickly and safely. I think Dick and Damian showed up as part of their regular patrol - or possibly were called in by The Network.

I really think at this point, the writing has settle down to a smooth polish - it's not quite as memorable as the first arc, but it doesn't have those weird "why did the police car stop" questions.

[Masterff]

Well, it's Steph of Earth-3, not Steph of our universe! So while Steph as Batwoman still has her moral center, she has apparently lost all her fashion sense to compensate.

I also didnt like HER outfit....

[millernumber1]

I also didnt like HER outfit....

I thought it worked for a "dark" AU

[ohfellow]

World's Finest #3 re-read:

Some background since most likely very few people reading this discussion have read this World's Finest series.

As a World's Finest, there are a Superman and a Batman character in each book:

#1: Red Robin (Tim) and Nightwing (Chrisopher Kent);

#2: Robin (Damian) and Guardian (who is helping patrol Metropolis during Superman's absence on New Krypton);

#3: Batgirl (Steph) and Supergirl;

#4: Batman (Dick) and Superman, along with Batgirl and Supergirl.

It's an utterly ridiculous story, but fun.

The mini-series is a cross between a sitcom and a CSI - at least, the first 2 books in the series are kind of standalone adventures that ultimately have nothing to do with where the story is going, except that the final scene in each leads into the real story.

Very little in any of the books makes sense, like what Penguin is doing with Kryptonite Man; why Parasite and Mr. Freeze are working together (their plan is half-baked and doomed to utter failure, and there is virtually no reason for Mr. Freeze to think Parasite will work with him after he's grown in power); why Mr. Freeze starts working with Toy Man (he does start to give some exposition, but it's simply interrupted mid-sentence, and I don't recall any other time his willing involvement is explained); or why he actually seems to think Toy Man's robot/bomb is his own - or at least takes enough pride in his work to call it "my machine."

Robot/bomb meant to zoom across the solar system to destroy all of New Krypton? Totally silly.

It comes in #4, but as Damian says, "A giant Superman/Batman robot? That might be the stupidest thing I've ever heard." Dick replies "Robin. Focus. Toyman built one of these once before. It took a meteor the size of Brazil to destroy that one." (Something tells me that's a story that was never written.)

It's really a New Krypton tie-in, with numerous references to that gigantic event, which occupied at least 4 monthly titles for 1.5 years - has there been any other equally long event?

There are much more complete synopses for #3, and #4, on the Stephanie wiki.

Sterling Gates and Jamal Igle were the regular team on Supergirl at the time, and Gates was also one of the 3 primary architects of the New Krypton event.

Even though Igle is the regular artist on Supergirl, I like the way he draws Batgirl better here.

My only gripe is I find the Noto covers drab. It's the coloring I think.

[bob.schoonover]

It comes in #4, but as Damian says, "A giant Superman/Batman robot? That might be the stupidest thing I've ever heard." Dick replies "Robin. Focus. Toyman built one of these once before. It took a meteor the size of Brazil to destroy that one." (Something tells me that's a story that was never written.)

That's almost certainly a reference to the opening arc of Jeph Loeb's Superman/Batman series. It was definitely written and definitely ridiculous (but I enjoyed it)

[ohfellow]

That's almost certainly a reference to the opening arc of Jeph Loeb's Superman/Batman series. It was definitely written and definitely ridiculous (but I enjoyed it)

I see what you mean!