Stephanie Brown: Spoiler, Robin, Batgirl Appreciation 2020

[sunofdarkchild]

It seems to only be for the cover that Cass is in the Batgirl costume. The same goes for Steph not having the full-face costume. The costumes are different in the interior preview,

[millernumber1]

I missed see Steph face/hair in her spoiler costume. WHY IS CASS IN HER BATGIRL COSTUME?

This guy should be the clownhunter. I hope that he is not here to kill Punchline. I like her design and I am tired of Harley to want her disappearing.

Is a waste of time add Young Justice cover. We all saw it.

We'll see what happens with Steph, Cass, and Clownhunter. The biggest thing I hope for in this short story is that Steph gets a clear line to be a Gotham hero again, and starts showing up in Batman books again. It feels like Didio or someone put a really hard "Steph cannot be included" mandate so writers like Tom King and James Tynion, who previously had been including her (in things like Detective Comics #1000, or Heroes in Crisis), completely excluded her from the middle of last year until now.

I am pretty excited about Young Justice, though!

You're aware that Didio was responsible for her being out of it, right? With him gone*, why shouldn't Cass be in her Batgirl costume?

* It feels so good to say that.

Agreed. I really, really hope this is the start of Steph and Cass's life out from under Didio's grasp.

It seems to only be for the cover that Cass is in the Batgirl costume. The same goes for Steph not having the full-face costume. The costumes are different in the interior preview,

The preview is just one page, though. Much can happen in a story. But, of course, my real hopes are that Steph gets some of her own heroic life in Gotham back. She's been gone way, way too long. I love her in Young Justice, but Gotham needs its Violet Vindicator.

[Restingvoice]

Do you think people by now already re-accepted Steph as Spoiler or they still want her to be Batgirl? Anyone know how many people prefer which?

[Digifiend]

Well, personally I don't mind either way. There can be multiple Batgirls, but Steph's Spoiler identity is hers alone and the reasoning for the name is still valid, and thus it's fine. Cass on the other hand, her Orphan name doesn't make sense as her relationship to Shiva has been returned to continuity - she isn't an orphan! So I do think she should become Batgirl again. I don't think Babs needs to make way though, they're very different characters. But if she did end up back in the wheelchair and back as Oracle, it would provide a rarity - a physically disabled hero. There aren't many of those.

[Dataweaver]

I don't think, at this point, that Babs should be put back in the wheelchair. I could definitely see her reclaiming the Oracle identity, and possibly even shifting to that instead of Batgirl. But if so, it would no longer strictly be an online handle. Give her a costume redesign that is Oracle-themed, perhaps with more of an owl-like aesthetic in general but with the Oracle face-mask. Then have her hand over the Batgirl identity to Cassandra while Stephanie remains as Spoiler.

They would all be Batgirl, but in the same way that Dick, Jason, Tim, and Damian are all Robin. Especially if most of the free flashpoint timeline gets restored. In particular, Stephanie's time as Batgirl.

Of course, this introduces a new wrinkle that ought to be addressed if Stephanie's time as Batgirl is reinstated in-continuity, why did she go back to the spoiler identity?

[Katana500]

Of course, this introduces a new wrinkle that ought to be addressed if Stephanie's time as Batgirl is reinstated in-continuity, why did she go back to the spoiler identity?

Couldn't you just say she went back to Spoiler when Barbara regained the ability to walk and retook the Batgirl identity.

[Digifiend]

Exactly. No need for a complicated explanation there.

[millernumber1]

Do you think people by now already re-accepted Steph as Spoiler or they still want her to be Batgirl? Anyone know how many people prefer which?

I think it's really hard to tell what Steph fans want, based on trying to figure it out myself for 10 years. For people who like Steph, but wouldn't consider themselves Steph fans, I'd say Spoiler is likely their preferred role for her.

Well, personally I don't mind either way. There can be multiple Batgirls, but Steph's Spoiler identity is hers alone and the reasoning for the name is still valid, and thus it's fine. Cass on the other hand, her Orphan name doesn't make sense as her relationship to Shiva has been returned to continuity - she isn't an orphan! So I do think she should become Batgirl again. I don't think Babs needs to make way though, they're very different characters. But if she did end up back in the wheelchair and back as Oracle, it would provide a rarity - a physically disabled hero. There aren't many of those.

My one problem with Spoiler is that it was created and seen by almost everyone as a supporting role. Robin and Batgirl are title roles - yes, they support Batman, but they are the main character in those titles, and they have their own supporting characters, ongoing development, etc.

I don't think, at this point, that Babs should be put back in the wheelchair. I could definitely see her reclaiming the Oracle identity, and possibly even shifting to that instead of Batgirl. But if so, it would no longer strictly be an online handle. Give her a costume redesign that is Oracle-themed, perhaps with more of an owl-like aesthetic in general but with the Oracle face-mask. Then have her hand over the Batgirl identity to Cassandra while Stephanie remains as Spoiler.

They would all be Batgirl, but in the same way that Dick, Jason, Tim, and Damian are all Robin. Especially if most of the free flashpoint timeline gets restored. In particular, Stephanie's time as Batgirl.

Of course, this introduces a new wrinkle that ought to be addressed if Stephanie's time as Batgirl is reinstated in-continuity, why did she go back to the spoiler identity?

As Katana says, and as many fic writers hypothesized during the time in 2011-2012 when we didn't know how Didio had completely erased her, she just chose the Spoiler role again, similar to how Dick chose the Nightwing role again when Bruce returned.

Couldn't you just say she went back to Spoiler when Barbara regained the ability to walk and retook the Batgirl identity.

Indeed.

[Konja7]

Well, personally I don't mind either way. There can be multiple Batgirls, but Steph's Spoiler identity is hers alone and the reasoning for the name is still valid, and thus it's fine. Cass on the other hand, her Orphan name doesn't make sense as her relationship to Shiva has been returned to continuity - she isn't an orphan! So I do think she should become Batgirl again. I don't think Babs needs to make way though, they're very different characters. But if she did end up back in the wheelchair and back as Oracle, it would provide a rarity - a physically disabled hero. There aren't many of those.

Spoiler could be Steph's identity alone, but it isn't a pretty important identity. I mean you won't see people denying someone with the identity of Batgirl is part of the Batfamily, but it is pretty common that Spoiler is denied a place in the Batfamily by fans and writers.

I've never understand why that is so important that Steph has her exclusive identity when she will end up relegated in this identity.

This is jus my opinion.

[Restingvoice]

Spoiler could be Steph's identity alone, but it isn't a pretty important identity. I mean you won't see people denying someone with the identity of Batgirl is part of the Batfamily, but it is pretty that Spoiler is denied a place in the Batfamily by fans and writers.

I've never understand why that is so important that Steph has her exclusive identity when she will end up relegated in this identity.

This is jus my opinion.

I can see that. It's how the brand is handled. If DC writers/planners are not buying/committing to Spoiler then the fans won't. That's before counting people who view Batgirl as a higher identity and we know DC views Batgirl as a higher brand.

[millernumber1]

Spoiler could be Steph's identity alone, but it isn't a pretty important identity. I mean you won't see people denying someone with the identity of Batgirl is part of the Batfamily, but it is pretty that Spoiler is denied a place in the Batfamily by fans and writers.

I've never understand why that is so important that Steph has her exclusive identity when she will end up relegated in this identity.

This is jus my opinion.

100% agreed. I think there are two main motivations behind people being loyal to the Spoiler role for Steph.

1) They want Steph to have something you can't take away from her. Robin and Batgirl were both fairly brutally taken from Steph, despite their popularity. Spoiler just can't be.

2) There's a big chunk of people who think that Steph should always be a supporting character instead of a title character, and they think that Spoiler fits that position best.

I can see that. It's how the brand is handled. If DC writers/planners are not buying/committing to Spoiler then the fans won't. That's before counting people who view Batgirl as a higher identity and we know DC views Batgirl as a higher brand.

I think Batgirl and Robin just ARE more visible, higher profile, and better selling identities than Spoiler. And I wish DC realized that having three Batgirls doesn't hurt the brand, but would bring the fanbases together and hopefully give more opportunities.

[Restingvoice]

Umm... gonna have to disagree on that last one. Having multiple people in the same identity does confuse the brand because there's Brand Association.

Superman is Clark, Batman is Bruce, Wonder Woman is Diana. No one's disputing those but when you have multiple Green Lanterns, Flashes, and Batgirls, you got fans divided on who's the better one and writers struggling to sell a title starring certain characters because one part of the fanbase only like this character and refuse to buy the other.

This can be mitigated somewhat by having all of the characters sharing a brand in one title in equal footing, forcing people to view them as equals, but that almost never happens. The Flash only star one, currently Barry. Green Lantern had gotten all of them at once, but it mainly focuses on Hal. I don't know if all the Lantern fans are satisfied with that.

Also, right now the only Lantern book existing is headlined by Hal, and the Justice League is represented by Stewart, so if sales are down or whatever reason they have to cancel some titles and keep one, they have to choose. Which character sharing this brand is the higher seller, or more preferred. This is before counting the creators' personal bias.

This is, of course, a point of view that can be fixed... I just don't trust that they will fix it

[Dataweaver]

You know who else tends to get the short end of the stick, even moreso than Stephanie? Bat-Girl. Betty Kane has been perpetually stuck in the role of “wannabe superhero” since her debut at the dawn of the Silver Age, where her main role was as the girl who fawned over Robin. Several times, she had stepped up to rebrand herself as a serious hero; and every time, she's achieved the breakthrough to where she's finally taken seriously — only to immediately drop into obscurity and have to go through it all over again roughly a decade later.

She's not even considered to be a Batgirl, even though she was literally the first to take on the role (albeit with a hyphen in the name).

If there's going to be a “Team Batgirl”, Bette should be on the roster — and Stephanie should be there backing her all the way, even (no; especially) when nobody else does.

That said, my preference would be to spell “Team Batgirl” as “Birds of Prey”, and add in Black Canary, Huntress, and Misfit (two of whom were also Batgirl for a time).

[millernumber1]

Umm... gonna have to disagree on that last one. Having multiple people in the same identity does confuse the brand because there's Brand Association.

Superman is Clark, Batman is Bruce, Wonder Woman is Diana. No one's disputing those but when you have multiple Green Lanterns, Flashes, and Batgirls, you got fans divided on who's the better one and writers struggling to sell a title starring certain characters because one part of the fanbase only like this character and refuse to buy the other.

This can be mitigated somewhat by having all of the characters sharing a brand in one title in equal footing, forcing people to view them as equals, but that almost never happens. The Flash only star one, currently Barry. Green Lantern had gotten all of them at once, but it mainly focuses on Hal. I don't know if all the Lantern fans are satisfied with that.

Also, right now the only Lantern book existing is headlined by Hal, and the Justice League is represented by Stewart, so if sales are down or whatever reason they have to cancel some titles and keep one, they have to choose. Which character sharing this brand is the higher seller, or more preferred. This is before counting the creators' personal bias.

This is, of course, a point of view that can be fixed... I just don't trust that they will fix it

Whether it's true or not (and I, obviously, disagree), DC has already failed at brand association by creating multiples of all of the roles you mention, and I think it's an injustice to fans to attempt to delete them and their history.

I'm pretty sure that the League of Batgirls concept works, just as Batman Inc worked. But it requires two things. 1) Good writing (a crapshoot, as I don't think there's been really standout writing for Babs or any Batgirl in that role for a long, long time) and 2) restoration and development of the relationships between Steph, Cass, and Babs.

You know who else tends to get the short end of the stick, even moreso than Stephanie? Bat-Girl. Betty Kane has been perpetually stuck in the role of “wannabe superhero” since her debut at the dawn of the Silver Age, where her main role was as the girl who fawned over Robin. Several times, she had stepped up to rebrand herself as a serious hero; and every time, she's achieved the breakthrough to where she's finally taken seriously — only to immediately drop into obscurity and have to go through it all over again roughly a decade later.

She's not even considered to be a Batgirl, even though she was literally the first to take on the role (albeit with a hyphen in the name).

If there's going to be a “Team Batgirl”, Bette should be on the roster — and Stephanie should be there backing her all the way, even (no; especially) when nobody else does.

I think it would be nice to see Bette on a League of Batgirls. But (and it's going to be rare that you hear me say this) DC has treated Bette worse than Steph, at least since Steph returned. Yes, Steph's had some pretty lumpy times, and yes, Bette had a pretty cool arc for the first two years of Batwoman, but since then, she's been pretty much ignored.

That being said, I think it's taking it a bit too far to say that Stephanie should back her all the way. I think there's no problem with developing a relationship between Steph and Bette, but there currently isn't one.

[Konja7]

In fact, I want Stephanie to be Robin in a "Batman and Robin" book. I think that will be a pretty good place to develop Stephanie (and Batman will help with the sales).

The Robin 80 anniversary only increased this desire.


Honestly, in a personal opinion, I should say I don't like Spoiler as a name. Many complaint about Orphan or Drake, but I don't find Spoiler as an attractive name. It is probably influenced because I become fan of Steph (and comics) when she was Batgirl

I would like another identity, especially if its more related to the Batfamily. I would even like Bat-Girl for Stephanie.