Stephanie Brown: Spoiler, Robin, Batgirl Appreciation 2020

[sunofdarkchild]

Issue 12 is a good ending to the first year of Steph's Batgirl run. She's in. She finally saved the city and not just individuals, basically evening the score from Wargames. She saved her current mentor, not that she hadn't saved Bruce and Tim's lives multiple times, but this time Babs was counting on Steph to save her and pull through after she was captured as opposed to something that could be brushed off.

Beforehand, the argument could be made that Steph could take down any group of goons, but against the big threats, the Jokers, the Shivas, Black Masks, ect. she was useless. This is no longer the case on any level. It probably shouldn't have been the case after Scarecrow, but it was. This was a threat of such a level, plus taking out Catwoman, Huntress, and Man-Bat, that no one can say she's not up for any other threats anymore.

[Tsukiakari1203]

I enjoyed Issue 12 and I'm sad we're at the half-way point. I liked that Babs was trusting her to do things. Art was great. I'm thrilled she's finally proved herself.

I do have a question- Prior to this book, had Barbara met Stephanie? (I know that Tim mentioned her to Babs when she was pregnant (those panels are hilarious) but that's all I know about)

[sunofdarkchild]

I enjoyed Issue 12 and I'm sad we're at the half-way point. I liked that Babs was trusting her to do things. Art was great. I'm thrilled she's finally proved herself.

I do have a question- Prior to this book, had Barbara met Stephanie? (I know that Tim mentioned her to Babs when she was pregnant (those panels are hilarious) but that's all I know about)

Steph and Babs interacted during the period Batman let her be part of the Batfamily before Bruce Wayne Murderer. Babs sent her to deal with the cultist who worshipped Shiva when Cass was in a coma. During the Murderer/Fugitive storyline Steph complained to Babs that Cass broke her jaw when she KO'd her to keep her out of a fight. And during Steph's time as Robin Babs was in charge of some of her training.

[millernumber1]

Issue 12 is a good ending to the first year of Steph's Batgirl run. She's in. She finally saved the city and not just individuals, basically evening the score from Wargames. She saved her current mentor, not that she hadn't saved Bruce and Tim's lives multiple times, but this time Babs was counting on Steph to save her and pull through after she was captured as opposed to something that could be brushed off.

Beforehand, the argument could be made that Steph could take down any group of goons, but against the big threats, the Jokers, the Shivas, Black Masks, ect. she was useless. This is no longer the case on any level. It probably shouldn't have been the case after Scarecrow, but it was. This was a threat of such a level, plus taking out Catwoman, Huntress, and Man-Bat, that no one can say she's not up for any other threats anymore.

Wonderful points. I kind of wish this was the crossover instead of Collision, so that the "save the city" thing would be more recognized, but it was awesome.

I enjoyed Issue 12 and I'm sad we're at the half-way point. I liked that Babs was trusting her to do things. Art was great. I'm thrilled she's finally proved herself.

I do have a question- Prior to this book, had Barbara met Stephanie? (I know that Tim mentioned her to Babs when she was pregnant (those panels are hilarious) but that's all I know about)

A little under half-way - we have the Road Home and Batman Inc issues, plus I'm throwing on a few extras at the end of the reread!

Steph and Babs interacted during the period Batman let her be part of the Batfamily before Bruce Wayne Murderer. Babs sent her to deal with the cultist who worshipped Shiva when Cass was in a coma. During the Murderer/Fugitive storyline Steph complained to Babs that Cass broke her jaw when she KO'd her to keep her out of a fight. And during Steph's time as Robin Babs was in charge of some of her training.

So much of that Batgirl issue just makes me mad. It shows Steph in such a bad light, and really builds to the narrative that "she's incompetent and annoying."

Babs also knew Steph when she was Robin - did some remote training with her through the cave's video chat system.

[ohfellow]

I think Spoiler is a pretty funny name, and it's easily memeable, which helps with brand recognition. But it does have some negative connotations.

And her image is used at Bleeding Cool for articles that contain spoilers. I see it and think it's a story about Steph, but it's not.

I think the name itself may be an impediment to the character's popularity. You know who Batman is, you know who Iron Man is, you know Green Lantern, etc.... maybe Spoiler-Girl, as dumb as it sounds, would have been more memorable a name. Other problematic names include Orphan and Misfit. Then you have Gotham Girl? Not a great name either. Coming up with a great name isn't so easy.

[ohfellow]

There is still so much DiDio hate.

Yet it seems to me he:

Greenlit Steph appearing in Young Justice, including on a couple of covers so far

Greenlit Steph appearances in Fabok's double-page pin-up and Daniel's double-page splash in Detective #1000

Greenlit Steph on two of the Robin 80th covers

Greenlit Steph story in Robin 80th

I haven't double-checked the timing of his leaving, vs. when work would have begun on the Robin 80th, but think he was in charge still.

So much hate, but now that he's gone, is everyone sure they want what's coming next? My perspective is that with DiDio not around to restrain or counter-program him, "DC" currently stands for Snyder's "Death Cult."

[millernumber1]

And her image is used at articles that contain spoilers. I see it and think it's a story about Steph, but it's not.

I think the name itself may be an impediment to the character's popularity. You know who Batman is, you know who Iron Man is, you know Green Lantern, etc.... maybe Spoiler-Girl, as dumb as it sounds, would have been more memorable a name. Other problematic names include Orphan and Misfit. Then you have Gotham Girl? Not a great name either. Coming up with a great name isn't so easy.

Well, of course any connection with that website is a cause for mourning.

I personally think the fact that Spoiler is memeable is pretty good, for a supporting character of a supporting character. There's not really a chance that she can get a new original name - I think a connection to her existing legacies is the best option for higher profile.

There is still so much DiDio hate.

Yet it seems to me he:

Greenlit Steph appearing in Young Justice, including on a couple of covers so far

Greenlit Steph appearances in Fabok's double-page pin-up and Daniel's double-page splash in Detective #1000

Greenlit Steph on two of the Robin 80th covers

Greenlit Steph story in Robin 80th

I haven't double-checked the timing of his leaving, vs. when work would have begun on the Robin 80th, but think he was in charge still.

So much hate, but now that he's gone, is everyone sure they want what's coming next? My perspective is that with DiDio not around to restrain or counter-program him, "DC" currently stands for Snyder's "Death Cult."

It is true that Didio greenlit Steph on all those things, and also greenlit her times as Robin and Batgirl. But he also:

Refused to allow Willingham, who had the support of Gail Simone, Dylan Horrocks, and Devin Grayson at the VERY least, to keep Steph alive when the sales for Robin were pretty bumped by her taking the role.

Personally refused, and mocked fans who asked for, a memorial for Steph in the Batcave.

Called her return "not special", her Batgirl run "disappointing", despite him being personally responsible for her awkward retcon of a return being necessary, and allowing Babs's Batgirl run to have equally or more disappointing periods.

Was at the very least significantly responsible for her being erased in the n52

Was personally responsible from her being erased from Smallville Season 11, and was extremely petty about it.

Also in the Robin special, greenlit them deleting Steph's history as Batgirl for no reason, while keeping all of the other Robins' roles intact.

All comics that have come out so far still have Didio listed. I don't think we'll see comics without his influence until September at least, if not even later.

[godisawesome]

Didio’s problem with Steph was that she was both originally and ancillary character and that she was kind of the result of spontaneous creative genius from multiple, rather than editorial preparation and intention - she’s more along the lines of creative work like 52 than she is of something like Countdown, in other words.

I don’t think he ever hated her, but I think he largely saw her as superfluous and unnecessary, and was maybe a bit annoyed at the fact that some of his intentional attempts to exploit her for editorial vision never took/ the editorial vision of others, since there’s a very real chance some of the decisions made about her were those of other editors he simply backed up.

She was the kind of variable that a micro-manager doesn’t really understand.

I don’t personally fear for her or the others under Snyder, though; as much as he has a morbid love of horror stories and darkness, I think he’s actually been pretty loath to actually kill off any major characters in the mainline continuity.

[millernumber1]

Didio’s problem with Steph was that she was both originally and ancillary character and that she was kind of the result of spontaneous creative genius from multiple, rather than editorial preparation and intention - she’s more along the lines of creative work like 52 than she is of something like Countdown, in other words.

I don’t think he ever hated her, but I think he largely saw her as superfluous and unnecessary, and was maybe a bit annoyed at the fact that some of his intentional attempts to exploit her for editorial vision never took/ the editorial vision of others, since there’s a very real chance some of the decisions made about her were those of other editors he simply backed up.

She was the kind of variable that a micro-manager doesn’t really understand.

I don’t personally fear for her or the others under Snyder, though; as much as he has a morbid love of horror stories and darkness, I think he’s actually been pretty loath to actually kill off any major characters in the mainline continuity.

Didio also personally dislikes Chuck Dixon, which adds another real negative to using her for him.

He's always blamed other factors for the bad things that happened to her while on his watch - to this day, I don't know who actually made the decision to kill her off. Whether it was Bob Schreck, Anderson Gabrych, or someone I just don't know about. No one has ever said "I made that decision," or pointed a finger at the person who did. But his behavior when she was removed from Smallville Season 11, to me, is damning. He's so incredibly petty for no good reason.

Snyder likes Steph. He has no interest in writing her, clearly, but he also is willing to lend support to Tynion in bringing her back, so while I don't expect Snyder to do anything for her, I also am not afraid of him doing anything to her.

[Konja7]

And her image is used at Bleeding Cool for articles that contain spoilers. I see it and think it's a story about Steph, but it's not.

I think the name itself may be an impediment to the character's popularity. You know who Batman is, you know who Iron Man is, you know Green Lantern, etc.... maybe Spoiler-Girl, as dumb as it sounds, would have been more memorable a name. Other problematic names include Orphan and Misfit. Then you have Gotham Girl? Not a great name either. Coming up with a great name isn't so easy.

At this point, I would accept RobinGirl or Robin-Girl for Stephanie.

Maybe it sounds a bit ridiculous, but it would have a connection to Robin identity. Also, in my opinion, it sounds better than Spoiler.

[millernumber1]

At this point, I would accept RobinGirl or Robin-Girl for Stephanie.

Maybe it sounds a bit ridiculous, but it would have a connection to Robin identity. Also, in my opinion, it sounds better than Spoiler.

Speaking of Robin-Girl

https://twitter.com/TomTaylorMade/st...42264277655552

Taylor said: "Flash didn’t save Spoiler.
Steph Brown comes later Winking face"

[adrikito]

I see. So I was not wrong and the girl here is STEPH:

DCEASED image.jpg

(I hope that this time there is not any problem with the image )

[millernumber1]

I see. So I was not wrong and the girl here is STEPH:

DCEASED image.jpg

(I hope that this time there is not any problem with the image )

No, I think Taylor is saying that isn't Steph, but she is coming later.

[ohfellow]

Batgirl #12:

I missed commenting on the last two, but here's some thoughts about this one.

Stephanie took a lot of chances, showed a lot of grit and had a lot of success, and fully earned Barbara's trust. (Still, she has lingering self-deprecation.) I think it was a solid conclusion for the first year.

Is there a reason why Wendy was moved into the Oracle role? If I recall correctly, she doesn't even last in the role for the entire second year. Was Barbara being used by one of the other books?

Some other dumb observations:

This is the first time I think we've seen Batgirl in braids. Looking back, the braids are somewhat visible in 2 panels near the end of #11, up in the jet, and then throughout #12, and I presume she needed to tie her hair back in preparation for the sky dive. But a simple rubber band would have been adequate; who had time or interest in braiding hair while in the jet? Still, I like the different look.

Another thing I noticed for the first time: the uniform develops tears in the right leg and left arm - so much for the armor! It's repaired by the final pages. Maybe there's a spare.

[millernumber1]

Batgirl #12:

I missed commenting on the last two, but here's some thoughts about this one.

Stephanie took a lot of chances, showed a lot of grit and had a lot of success, and fully earned Barbara's trust. (Still, she has lingering self-deprecation.) I think it was a solid conclusion for the first year.

Is there a reason why Wendy was moved into the Oracle role? If I recall correctly, she doesn't even last in the role for the entire second year. Was Barbara being used by one of the other books?

Some other dumb observations:

This is the first time I think we've seen Batgirl in braids. Looking back, the braids are somewhat visible in 2 panels near the end of #11, up in the jet, and then throughout #12, and I presume she needed to tie her hair back in preparation for the sky dive. But a simple rubber band would have been adequate; who had time or interest in braiding hair while in the jet? Still, I like the different look.

Another thing I noticed for the first time: the uniform develops tears in the right leg and left arm - so much for the armor! It's repaired by the final pages. Maybe there's a spare.

I think Steph's insecurity is one of her traits that can't ever go away, especially if she's never allowed to age past 19. And it's a pretty appealing one to most readers.

Yes - Oracle was made mostly unavailable by the editors because of Simone starting Birds of Prey back up. And then Wendy was made unavailable by editorial for reasons that never saw the light of day.

I'd say that there's probably enough time to braid while it climbs to jump height.