Stephanie Brown: Spoiler, Robin, Batgirl Appreciation 2020

[Konja7]

And why is that?

Oh, wait, I bet I know- it’s because you’re an absolutely enormous advocate for representation for the disabled community in comics
(and has absolutely NOTHING to do with “your girl” being a Batgirl again).

The last accusation is unnecessary. Even if you were right about the reason, it is not something to criticize a person (and less considering that many of Barbara fans would do the same for "their girl"). Each person can want what they want.

Also, there could be reasons not related to Stephanie or Cassandra why someone would prefer Barbara as Oracle. Although I don't want Barbara as Oracle again, I should say I like more her stories as Oracle in BOP that her run as Batgirl.

[atomicbattery]

The last accusation is unnecessary. Even if you were right about the reason, it is not something to criticize a person (and less considering that many of Barbara fans would do the same for "their girl"). Each person can want what they want.

Also, there could be reasons not related to Stephanie or Cassandra why someone would prefer Barbara as Oracle. Although I don't want Barbara as Oracle again, I should say I like more her stories as Oracle in BOP that her run as Batgirl.

And I found the exclamation point in “I very much hope it’s Babs as Oracle!” unnecessary.
It suggests enthusiasm and excitement for someone being returned to the pain of a disability.

For years there have been posters in the Barbara Gordon forum who have been advocates for her return to the role of Oracle, they say because of the positive depiction of the disabled in comics. They have also argued that the title of Batgirl is a regression- a pale, imitative version of another hero.
These very same posters then go to the Stephanie Brown and Cassandra Cain forums and passionately advocate that their favorite character be returned to the Batgirl mantle. The hypocrisy is astounding, and the motivation for the arguments for positive depictions of the differently-abled become suspect. It is a great way to stake the moral high ground, cloak yourself in virtue and shut down the discussion. After all, what kind of monster could possibly be against the portrayal of a powerful, fearless PWD in comics?

A person can make any claim that they want on the internet, but the truth is that I work with disabled kids. None of them feels that they are any less than. Like many kids today, many of them love superheroes. And their favorites are the same heroes, and they relate to the characters in the same way, as every other kid (Marvel heroes mostly, of course- Spidey in particular). I will note at these boards the first time I see a Professor X t-shirt.
Admittedly, these are elementary school kids. Perhaps there is a greater need to see yourself reflected in art as you reach teen or adulthood. Marieke Nijkamp, author of The Oracle Code, spoke beautifully, affectingly, and personally to these subjects at the Comic-Con@home ‘Batgirls’ panel.

That isn’t what I see from the posters I’vd described at these forums, however. By simply reading the contradictory posts in different forums, it is exposed as nakedly insincere and opportunistic. And that actually IS offensive.

[millernumber1]

And why is that?

Oh, wait, I bet I know- it’s because you’re an absolutely enormous advocate for representation for the disabled community in comics
(and has absolutely NOTHING to do with “your girl” being a Batgirl again).

What an incredibly rude comment.

Surely the fact that the very first extended run in comics that I loved was Birds of Prey, that Oracle Year One is one of the best comics I own, and that Oracle was such a huge part of comics when I was growing up has nothing at all to do with it.

[atomicbattery]

I very much hope it's Babs as Oracle! It would very much fit with what happened in Batgirl #47 this week.

I work with children with disabilities. I witness their pain and the pain of their families.
For the kids in the confinement of a chair, there is nothing that they or their families wouldn’t do if they could free their children from their chains.

The events of Batgirl#47 leave Barbara, once again, with the inability to use her legs and the prospect of a return to her bonds.
I find your obvious excitement at this prospect grotesque.

[millernumber1]

I work with children with disabilities. I witness their pain and the pain of their families.
For the kids in the confinement of a chair, there is nothing that they or their families wouldn’t do if they could free their children from the

1) Barbara Gordon is not a child or even a real person. Hoping that a character does something or has something happen to them is not the same as being in a relationship with a real person.

2) DC refuses to remove The Killing Joke from continuity, but instead uses technology which does not yet exist to magically pretend that it has no real consequences except when they want to victimize Barbara again.

[atomicbattery]

1) Barbara Gordon is not a child or even a real person. Hoping that a character does something or has something happen to them is not the same as being in a relationship with a real person.

2) DC refuses to remove The Killing Joke from continuity, but instead uses technology which does not yet exist to magically pretend that it has no real consequences except when they want to victimize Barbara again.

1) People invest emotionally in fictional characters to a degree that often exceeds ‘real’ people. This has been true since the dawn of storytelling. For an example, I recommend that you read up on the reaction in Britain to the death Little Nell in Dickens’ ‘The Old Curiousity Shop’.

2) If the use of speculative or “magical” technology is a dealbreaker for you, I suggest that you stop reading superhero comic books altogether.

[Konja7]

And I found the exclamation point in “I very much hope it’s Babs as Oracle!” unnecessary.
It suggests enthusiasm and excitement for someone being returned to the pain of a disability.

For years there have been posters in the Barbara Gordon forum who have been advocates for her return to the role of Oracle, they say because of the positive depiction of the disabled in comics. They have also argued that the title of Batgirl is a regression- a pale, imitative version of another hero.
These very same posters then go to the Stephanie Brown and Cassandra Cain forums and passionately advocate that their favorite character be returned to the Batgirl mantle. The hypocrisy is astounding, and the motivation for the arguments for positive depictions of the differently-abled become suspect. It is a great way to stake the moral high ground, cloak yourself in virtue and shut down the discussion. After all, what kind of monster could possibly be against the portrayal of a powerful, fearless PWD in comics?

A person can make any claim that they want on the internet, but the truth is that I work with disabled kids. None of them feels that they are any less than. Like many kids today, many of them love superheroes. And their favorites are the same heroes, and they relate to the characters in the same way, as every other kid (Marvel heroes mostly, of course- Spidey in particular). I will note at these boards the first time I see a Professor X t-shirt.
Admittedly, these are elementary school kids. Perhaps there is a greater need to see yourself reflected in art as you reach teen or adulthood. Marieke Nijkamp, author of The Oracle Code, spoke beautifully, affectingly, and personally to these subjects at the Comic-Con@home ‘Batgirls’ panel.

That isn’t what I see from the posters I’vd described at these forums, however. By simply reading the contradictory posts in different forums, it is exposed as nakedly insincere and opportunistic. And that actually IS offensive.

I think there is hypocrisy from some people who want Barbara to be Oracle. However, Barbara as Oracle has fans that appreciate the character in that role too.

Many Barbara fans would do the same if they were in the exact same situation. I've notice this because many of them had said that it is best for fans of Stephanie and Cassandra to forget their Batgirl time and focus on Spoiler and Orphan identities (as supporting characters), but they would never consider another identity for Barbara.

So, the insincere and opportunistic is pretty common between different fans.


PS: I want Barbara to be Batwoman.

[atomicbattery]

PS: I want Barbara to be Batwoman.

And that would start another conflict!

A while back, on the ‘Batgirl to Oracle’ podcast, Barbara Kesel recounted her post-‘Killing Joke’ pitch to DC, in which a paraplegic Barbara is given a mech suit to return as Batgirl. As Kesel recounted, Barbara in the suit would be both more powerful and more vulnerable than ever before. I thought it was pretty brilliant, and also fit well within the comic traditions of dealing with disability, where, say, a blind Matt Murdock, with his ‘radar sense’, kinda has vision that exceeds a sighted person. Of course, DC rejected the pitch.
I would love if DC perhaps resurrected that concept.

I also love the idea of ‘The Batgirls’- a team book of Babs, Cass, and Steph.
But Barbara returning to the role of the disembodied voice?
It would be really tough for me to contribute my $3.99 a month to that.

[ChangingStation]

Here's a solution. We know the technology that Babs uses to walk is flawed, as despite assurances, it has repeatedly been shown to be possible to hack, and malfunction. This makes sense, as the tech is experimental, and most certainly wasn't created for someone who has the lifestyle of a vigilante.

Therefore, Babs inadvertently wearing the Implant out with her higher than average physical activity post surgery, causing side effects like muscle spasms is not an unlikely possibility. It carries the message that she should be a little more careful when out in the field, and while she recovers, it gives her a good reason to resurrect the Oracle role since it can be done while out of action.

I'm not advocating it being permanent, but it would carry an Aesop about Barbara being a little more careful with how far she pushes her body. Thoughts?

[Konja7]

Here's a solution. We know the technology that Babs uses to walk is flawed, as despite assurances, it has repeatedly been shown to be possible to hack, and malfunction. This makes sense, as the tech is experimental, and most certainly wasn't created for someone who has the lifestyle of a vigilante.

Therefore, Babs inadvertently wearing the Implant out with her higher than average physical activity post surgery, causing side effects like muscle spasms is not an unlikely possibility. It carries the message that she should be a little more careful when out in the field, and while she recovers, it gives her a good reason to resurrect the Oracle role since it can be done while out of action.

I'm not advocating it being permanent, but it would carry an Aesop about Barbara being a little more careful with how far she pushes her body. Thoughts?

I think that discussion is better for Barbara thread.

[Blue22]

Whether she's in a wheelchair or not (though, I'd prefer not), I don't really mind Babs going back to the role of Oracle (especially if it means we're getting Cass as Batgirl again). Though that mostly has to do with me thinking Babs was at her best as a character when she was Oracle.

But I also don't mind there being three Batgirls (Babs, Cass, and Steph). At this point, I'll be happy with whichever route they go with. I just like that Cass and Steph are getting more attention.

[ChangingStation]

Yeah, Cass and Steph have been relegated to supporting characters for quite a while. I'm legitimately interested in seeing their story in War Zone.

[millernumber1]

I also love the idea of ‘The Batgirls’- a team book of Babs, Cass, and Steph.
But Barbara returning to the role of the disembodied voice?
It would be really tough for me to contribute my $3.99 a month to that.

If you don't like the Oracle role, that's fine. But accusing others who do love it of just wanting to get Barbara out of the way is really inappropriate.

If you look at my posts for a long time, I've been vocal about supporting all three Batgirls on a team. But that doesn't change the fact that Birds of Prey was one of the first titles I loved and still love, and Babs as Oracle was a huge part of that love.

Whether she's in a wheelchair or not (though, I'd prefer not), I don't really mind Babs going back to the role of Oracle (especially if it means we're getting Cass as Batgirl again). Though that mostly has to do with me thinking Babs was at her best as a character when she was Oracle.

But I also don't mind there being three Batgirls (Babs, Cass, and Steph). At this point, I'll be happy with whichever route they go with. I just like that Cass and Steph are getting more attention.

Three Batgirls I think would be best. Hopefully fans would get onboard and support all of them, instead of the fear and infighting that we've seen for 11 years.

Yeah, Cass and Steph have been relegated to supporting characters for quite a while. I'm legitimately interested in seeing their story in War Zone.

I don't mind Steph as a supporting character if she's regularly used, but I would prefer her as a lead, whether in a solo or a team book. I think Joker War Zone looks really interesting, and I've preordered the Derek Chew variant!

[atomicbattery]

If you don't like the Oracle role, that's fine. But accusing others who do love it of just wanting to get Barbara out of the way is really inappropriate.

If you look at my posts for a long time, I've been vocal about supporting all three Batgirls on a team. But that doesn't change the fact that Birds of Prey was one of the first titles I loved and still love, and Babs as Oracle was a huge part of that love.

My apologies.
This should be an enormously exciting moment for fans of both Steph and Cass, and I’d be distressed to think that I spoiled that even a little bit.

Stephanie, in particular, is a favorite of mine. I’ve never been a fan of the relentless darkness that the Batbooks can wallow in, and Steph’s determination and joy brightens every book she’s in.
Here’s wishing her a long (not truncated this time), triumphant run as a Batgirl.

[DragonPiece]

A batgirls book would be fun, but a part of me would prefer a book with just Tim and Stephanie. Now that Tim is robin again, they should just give him a solo book and have Stephanie be a main character.