Stephanie Brown: Spoiler, Robin, Batgirl Appreciation 2020

[millernumber1]

My apologies.
This should be an enormously exciting moment for fans of both Steph and Cass, and I’d be distressed to think that I spoiled that even a little bit.

Stephanie, in particular, is a favorite of mine. I’ve never been a fan of the relentless darkness that the Batbooks can wallow in, and Steph’s determination and joy brightens every book she’s in.
Here’s wishing her a long (not truncated this time), triumphant run as a Batgirl.

I very much appreciate that, thank you.

A batgirls book would be fun, but a part of me would prefer a book with just Tim and Stephanie. Now that Tim is robin again, they should just give him a solo book and have Stephanie be a main character.

I think a Batgirls book would be more exciting for the Bat-line overall, but I have a huge nostalgia for the Robin title with Tim, so I'd love to see a Robin/Spoiler book too. I just think that seems a bit less likely. But you never know!

[ohfellow]

I very much appreciate that, thank you.



I think a Batgirls book would be more exciting for the Bat-line overall, but I have a huge nostalgia for the Robin title with Tim, so I'd love to see a Robin/Spoiler book too. I just think that seems a bit less likely. But you never know!

Has there ever been a book titled "Batgirl and Robin"?

I wonder if Steph and Cass are going to have breakthroughs and gain some direct impressions of their alternate lives, as Tim has.

While Cass is wearing the Bat symbol on Chew's cover, her position is such that I can't tell if Steph is also sporting the symbol, as she does on that interior page.

You know, you could argue that DC has been warming the audience up for Batgirls. Steph as Spoiler in Young Justice and DCeased. Cass, as Batgirl, in DCeased. An unquestioned presence of two Batgirls co-existing in DCeased - both Barbara (RIP) and Cass. Of the two titles, DCeased is by far the bigger seller, though who knows how well the current digital-only is selling. We'll see if Steph shows up in the Dead Planet monthly.

On the other hand, if they intended to have a book revolve around them, why leave them out of so many Bat family splash pages?

[Bikkun]

I wonder if Steph and Cass are going to have breakthroughs and gain some direct impressions of their alternate lives, as Tim has.

They actually already did that - In Tynion's (Hmmm) Detective Comics, Brother Eye showed them their Pre-Flashpoint incarnations in an attempt to mock and discourage them. Stephanie instead saw it as "Hell yeah, look how awesome I can be! I'm just getting started!"

Tynion unapologetically threw away New 52 Tim and made him like his Pre-Flashpoint self, backstory and all. You can chalk it up in-universe to Superman Reborn.

As for warming up the audience, this is definitely a post-Didio thing.The leaked post-Death Metal timeline only had Stephanie's history as Robin revived and the Robin anniversary only had her listed as Robin as well as Spoiler so Didio was still trying to bury that aspect of her. Cass was allowed to be Batgirl again, but that's it. This is the first blatant "**** Didio" thing and I am here for it.

(Also, hi, first post here!)

[ohfellow]

They actually already did that - In Tynion's (Hmmm) Detective Comics, Brother Eye showed them their Pre-Flashpoint incarnations in an attempt to mock and discourage them. Stephanie instead saw it as "Hell yeah, look how awesome I can be! I'm just getting started!"

Tynion unapologetically threw away New 52 Tim and made him like his Pre-Flashpoint self, backstory and all. You can chalk it up in-universe to Superman Reborn.

As for warming up the audience, this is definitely a post-Didio thing.The leaked post-Death Metal timeline only had Stephanie's history as Robin revived and the Robin anniversary only had her listed as Robin as well as Spoiler so Didio was still trying to bury that aspect of her. Cass was allowed to be Batgirl again, but that's it. This is the first blatant "**** Didio" thing and I am here for it.

(Also, hi, first post here!)

Hi there!

I was thinking about Young Justice, where with Zatanna's help, Tim actually *remembered* his alternate life (including the original Young Justice). But the magic didn't work on Steph, and she didn't remember anything -- yet. So she and Cass only saw the projections.

Interesting theory that with DiDio gone, Steph's Batgirl past is fair game again.

Bendis came mighty close, but I guess you could argue the reason Zatanna's spell didn't work on Steph was because of a DiDio spell block. But then Bendis wrote Steph as an alternate Batwoman in some other universe.

Since Bendis had said the Bat office had plans for Steph, her remembering of her time as Batgirl may have simply been delayed so that it could be used directly in a Bat book, rather than kind of "off stage" in Young Justice. But then you might ask "But Tim's memory restore was done in Young Justice." I would argue it's less dramatic - he's just remembering he was a similar Robin and remembering the old team and teammates. It's a much bigger deal for Steph to remember she had stepped into completely different shoes. And maybe Tynion wanted to write it.

[Bikkun]

Aahhh, I forgot about the Bendis thing. I admittedly dipped out of Young Justice quickly.

[ohfellow]

Since Bendis had said the Bat office had plans for Steph, her remembering of her time as Batgirl may have simply been delayed so that it could be used directly in a Bat book, rather than kind of "off stage" in Young Justice.

If I may add more by quoting myself: Steph doesn't have to remember anything, actually, to take on a Batgirl mantle. She was already inspired by the picture she saw of her alternate self. So maybe she, and Cass, finally act on the inspiration.

[millernumber1]

If I may add more by quoting myself: Steph doesn't have to remember anything, actually, to take on a Batgirl mantle. She was already inspired by the picture she saw of her alternate self. So maybe she, and Cass, finally act on the inspiration.

I would be perfectly happy with this, though I'd prefer her memories to be restored.

[Bikkun]

If I may add more by quoting myself: Steph doesn't have to remember anything, actually, to take on a Batgirl mantle. She was already inspired by the picture she saw of her alternate self. So maybe she, and Cass, finally act on the inspiration.

Yeah, that tracks. With DiDio gone and a new Bat-Editor who seems to get along with him, Tynion is finally allowed to harvest the seeds he planted during Rebirth.

[Bikkun]

I would be perfectly happy with this, though I'd prefer her memories to be restored.

Honestly, she knows everything about her Pre-Flashpoint self she needs to know. What would restoring her memories even do for her at this point? Remind her how it felt to be tortured by Black Mask?

[millernumber1]

Honestly, she knows everything about her Pre-Flashpoint self she needs to know. What would restoring her memories even do for her at this point? Remind her how it felt to be tortured by Black Mask?

You have a good point. While I think it's unfair for her to have so much less experience than the rest of the Batfamily who has been restored, a lot of that restoration would be literal torture.

[Bikkun]

You have a good point. While I think it's unfair for her to have so much less experience than the rest of the Batfamily who has been restored, a lot of that restoration would be literal torture.

I think taking context into account, she's... probably about even with her older self? Like we need to remember she spent years out of publication and her time as Robin was both very short and editorially mandated by DiDio (according to Devin Grayson, I think) with the intent to kill her off. Because of a grudge against Dixon, mind (how justified that grudge is given all we know about Dixon NOW is another matter...). And her time as Batgirl was cut tragically short. While New 52 and on Steph has made fairly regular appearances with small gaps since 2014 between the Eternal books, Catwoman, Detective, Young Justice, probably others I'm forgetting.

... It'll be nice if she can actually be a mainstay now without those gaps.

[millernumber1]

I think taking context into account, she's... probably about even with her older self? Like we need to remember she spent years out of publication and her time as Robin was both very short and editorially mandated by DiDio (according to Devin Grayson, I think) with the intent to kill her off. Because of a grudge against Dixon, mind (how justified that grudge is given all we know about Dixon NOW is another matter...). And her time as Batgirl was cut tragically short. While New 52 and on Steph has made fairly regular appearances with small gaps since 2014 between the Eternal books, Catwoman, Detective, Young Justice, probably others I'm forgetting.

... It'll be nice if she can actually be a mainstay now without those gaps.

I'd prefer not to get into demonizing any creators, Didio, Dixon, Grayson, or anyone, as I think it does more harm than good to discussion and community.

No one has taken responsibility for killing Steph, sadly. Bill Willingham recently did a lengthy video where he talked about the whole history of it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liIY1lnwyjY

And nowhere does he actually say who it was who made the decision, beyond "editorial." Didio himself says that the decision was already made before he was hired (in the Back Matter of Batgirl #2, saved here: https://stephaniebrown.fandom.com/wiki/Batgirl_Vol_3_2). Of course, Didio also says that he decided to make Steph Robin, whereas Willingham says that it was his own idea. So I don't really trust what Didio is saying, but nor do I think it's fair to say that absolutely he did it.

[ohfellow]

I would be perfectly happy with this, though I'd prefer her memories to be restored.

I wonder if it would be better for the original story to be retold, but in its own way. (I have not read all of it, but isn't the origin of Spoiler also retold from scratch by Tynion? She got there "again" without having to remember she did that once "elsewhere.")

Paralleling what Cass did, Barbara (whether or not she is still able to be active as Batgirl) can be the one to hand suits over to Cass and Steph, and they can rise into the roles. With or without actual recollections.

Total recall, besides bringing mistakes and tragedy to mind, could kind of shortcut the natural evolution of things.

Steph didn't skip any steps while becoming Spoiler.

But you know, I'd enjoy either telling of the story. And I hope to be surprised! I only hope it's not an Elseworld story but actually has ongoing implications.

If it's real and not an Elseworld, it's a big deal for someone to don a Bat symbol, not something that can be easily walked back, but -- we'll see, and in not very long. (I always fear comics, along with everything else, will get shut down again.)

[millernumber1]

I wonder if it would be better for the original story to be retold, but in its own way. (I have not read all of it, but isn't the origin of Spoiler also retold from scratch by Tynion? She got there "again" without having to remember she did that once "elsewhere.")

Paralleling what Cass did, Barbara (whether or not she is still able to be active as Batgirl) can be the one to hand suits over to Cass and Steph, and they can rise into the roles. With or without actual recollections.

Total recall, besides bringing mistakes and tragedy to mind, could kind of shortcut the natural evolution of things.

Steph didn't skip any steps while becoming Spoiler.

But you know, I'd enjoy either telling of the story. And I hope to be surprised! I only hope it's not an Elseworld story but actually has ongoing implications.

If it's real and not an Elseworld, it's a big deal for someone to don a Bat symbol, not something that can be easily walked back, but -- we'll see, and in not very long. (I always fear comics, along with everything else, will get shut down again.)

Yes, Batman Eternal is Steph's brand new origin, that overwrites the original origin in Detective Comics #647-649.

However, Tim Drake had a new origin, too, that Tynion helped write a little piece of, and he overwrote that with A Lonely Place of Living which reinstated A Lonely Place of Dying (which Bikkun mentioned), so I don't see a huge problem with just overwriting to reinstate Steph's history, too.

I love Batman Eternal. But I don't have a big problem with an overwrite. So I also would be happy either way.

[Konja7]

I remember this interview with Bryan Q Miller, Chuck Dixon and Lee Garbett:

https://comicsventure.com/celebratin...oming-batgirl/

I always wondered what Bryan Q Miller means when he says he has a pitch for a comic with Stephanie.