Stephanie Brown: Spoiler, Robin, Batgirl Appreciation 2020

[Tsukiakari1203]

You know who else tends to get the short end of the stick, even moreso than Stephanie? Bat-Girl. Betty Kane has been perpetually stuck in the role of “wannabe superhero” since her debut at the dawn of the Silver Age, where her main role was as the girl who fawned over Robin. Several times, she had stepped up to rebrand herself as a serious hero; and every time, she's achieved the breakthrough to where she's finally taken seriously — only to immediately drop into obscurity and have to go through it all over again roughly a decade later.

She's not even considered to be a Batgirl, even though she was literally the first to take on the role (albeit with a hyphen in the name).

If there's going to be a “Team Batgirl”, Bette should be on the roster — and Stephanie should be there backing her all the way, even (no; especially) when nobody else does.

That said, my preference would be to spell “Team Batgirl” as “Birds of Prey”, and add in Black Canary, Huntress, and Misfit (two of whom were also Batgirl for a time).

Bette's a favorite of mine and I want her included in Batgirl stuff

[Tsukiakari1203]

Welcome to the Batgirl: Stephanie Brown reread, Week 24! (Schedule starts here: https://community.cbr.com/showthread...=1#post4916669) Today, we're on Batman Incoporporated: Leviathan Strikes, "School of Night", written by Grant Morrison, pencilled by Cameron Stewart, inked by Cameron Stewart, colored by Nathan Fairbairn, cover by Chris Burnham.



Notes: The worldbuilding of St. Hadrian’s, while quite fun in a pulpy way on its own, is even more fun when I think about Grayson and all the stuff that spun out of it - Matron (Helena Bertinelli), the Skull Girls, etc. That kind of extrapolation from a brilliant idea from Morrison is exactly why I love the Batman Inc era, perhaps best of all the eras. It was only about 8-10 months, but it invigorated Batman in a way I haven’t seen before or since, except perhaps the first two years of Rebirth. (And yes, I know Snyder outsold Morrison and everyone else, and Court of Owls is everywhere, but the energy was different for me. Batman Inc was the democratization of Batman - the very real sense that ANYONE could fight for justice and help others as a Bat, and I’ve never let go of that dream.)

Steph’s thoughts at the end of the issue are a beautiful mirror of that - after nearly 20 years of being ignored or put down by the Batfamily, she’s Batgirl, and she’s trusted by Batman to hold her own against a school of brilliantly trained assassins. She is worthy - the girl who had a criminal father, and fought crime because she wanted to do some good against him. Morrison got that really right, and it’s fantastic.

Fairbairn’s colors are an interesting contrast with Guy Major, who colored the vast majority of Steph’s Batgirl appearances. Fairbairn actually uses the darker red version of Steph’s color, instead of the blue purple that Major employs in most comics. I don’t know if that’s because Fairbairn just wanted to use that color, since it was featured on most of the covers, or if that color is more expensive to print, and thus they only used it for interiors in a special one-shot like this.

Stewart, though I do not think much of him as a moral being, is a very good artist - his linework is clean, his composition strong, and his drawing appealing.

Cover: The main cover is more focused on the second half of the issue. Originally, this was going to be Batman Inc #9, and there was a cancelled cover by Burnham that reflects the story we got.



Discussion Questions: Do you think this flows neatly from the last issue of Batgirl? Does St. Hadrian’s intrigue you as a place for more stories (or do you like what Grayson did with it)?

Bonus Comic: All New Batman: The Brave and the Bold #13 - Calling all Robins! Steph gets a wonderful, beautiful showing (coming out the same month as this special) written by the brilliant Sholly Fisch, illustrated by the amazing Rick Burchett (of Batman/Huntress: Cry for Blood). She even appears as both Robin and Batgirl in this time-travelling team-up tale!

I love both issues and Bette's little cameo in BTBATB is a cherry on top to a great story. The Skull Girls and St Hadrian's led me to theorize that Bette Kane was a trial run for those ideas. Molly_Hats on ao3 wrote some cute stories with that concept. They also feature Betteinelli which is a ship I love. Sorry for the Bette stuff, my Bette thread died a few months ago. Steph is really stellar on Batman Inc missions and I'd wished we'd seen more of them especially one with her and Cass as Black Bat.

[millernumber1]

I love both issues and Bette's little cameo in BTBATB is a cherry on top to a great story. The Skull Girls and St Hadrian's led me to theorize that Bette Kane was a trial run for those ideas. Molly_Hats on ao3 wrote some cute stories with that concept. They also feature Betteinelli which is a ship I love. Sorry for the Bette stuff, my Bette thread died a few months ago. Steph is really stellar on Batman Inc missions and I'd wished we'd seen more of them especially one with her and Cass as Black Bat.

What are the links to the Skull Girls/Bette Kane fics?

I, also, would have liked to see some more Batman Inc involvement for poor Steph and Cass.

[Tsukiakari1203]

What are the links to the Skull Girls/Bette Kane fics?

I, also, would have liked to see some more Batman Inc involvement for poor Steph and Cass.

https://archiveofourown.org/works/13508091 this fic by Molly_Hats. She writes good Steph stories and excellent Bette ones

https://archiveofourown.org/works/15514254 this one as well

[millernumber1]

https://archiveofourown.org/works/13508091 this fic by Molly_Hats. She writes good Steph stories and excellent Bette ones

Thanks!

[Tsukiakari1203]

i posted a second too

[ohfellow]

Comments Re: Batman Incoporporated: Leviathan Strikes, "School of Night"

Whoa. This feels like the outlines of a story, a sketch of a situation. I only read this once before, probably scratched my head and moved on. Some kind of school that's a cult that initiates girls as super-commandoes, except that no they are being tortured or murdered, except that no, they are being groomed as accessories to the rich and famous. (Which would be creepier if Stewart, not Morrison, was the writer.)

I have no idea what the school does, and ultimately it's just a Creepy Place training girls or sacrificing them as a cult, that has to be taken down.

It looks great. Painful now to say it given the current context, but Stewart draws the prettiest Steph Brown. For that matter, he draws a whole school of pretty young girls. But it wouldn't be fair to make a huge point of this, rather than assume it's a coincidence. (Unless editors though oh, this story would be perfect to give to Cameron to draw wink wink.)

I loved seeing her engaging in so much action out of costume - fighting and ziplining around. Perhaps the first time we've seen that? Or one of the few times.

I don't know why any of the girls think Steph has ANYTHING to do with Batman - it feels like I was dropped into the middle of some story, but no, this story covers Steph's arrival at the school, so it doesn't seem I missed the reason for that.

And I have no idea why Steph so casually reveals her identity to Jolisa. She and Steph were being tortured er sacrificed er initiated into the cult except er Jolisa claims Steph hijacked it from Jolisa who was supposed to kill Steph to prove herself. (I would think if your goal was to kill someone, you wouldn't petulantly blame them for "hijacking" that situation. What, you'd be disappointed they didn't just go along with it?)

Did they both eat that wafer? And under the circumstances, wouldn't that have been some kind of drug?

How did Pyg know someone was sending secret messages to someone? I don't think we are meant to follow any of this.

So Steph made a big judgement error revealing her id to this duplicitous girl, but it doesn't matter because by the time this was published, Steph as Batgirl no longer existed, so her identity is safe.

Ultimately I guess this is a parody of a creepy school for girls, throwing in cults, torture, initiation and training and any other staple of the genre Morrison could think of, which the hero infiltrates and takes down.

By now Steph has had plenty of reassurance and praise and I thought by now she was not as insecure, but maybe Batman's compliment is something he was originally scripted to be saying to a greener New 52 Spoiler. (Had Spoiler even be introduced into New 52 by the time this story was published? The history of the situation is a bit convoluted.)

Anyway, taken as a parody of this kind of school it's perfectly fun, and Steph shows courage, resourcefulness, and the ability to perform with or without the armored suit.

[millernumber1]

Comments Re: Batman Incoporporated: Leviathan Strikes, "School of Night"

Whoa. This feels like the outlines of a story, a sketch of a situation. I only read this once before, probably scratched my head and moved on. Some kind of school that's a cult that initiates girls as super-commandoes, except that no they are being tortured or murdered, except that no, they are being groomed as accessories to the rich and famous. (Which would be creepier if Stewart, not Morrison, was the writer.)

I have no idea what the school does, and ultimately it's just a Creepy Place training girls or sacrificing them as a cult, that has to be taken down.

It looks great. Painful now to say it given the current context, but Stewart draws the prettiest Steph Brown. For that matter, he draws a whole school of pretty young girls. But it wouldn't be fair to make a huge point of this, rather than assume it's a coincidence. (Unless editors though oh, this story would be perfect to give to Cameron to draw wink wink.)

I loved seeing her engaging in so much action out of costume - fighting and ziplining around. Perhaps the first time we've seen that? Or one of the few times.

I don't know why any of the girls think Steph has ANYTHING to do with Batman - it feels like I was dropped into the middle of some story, but no, this story covers Steph's arrival at the school, so it doesn't seem I missed the reason for that.

And I have no idea why Steph so casually reveals her identity to Jolisa. She and Steph were being tortured er sacrificed er initiated into the cult except er Jolisa claims Steph hijacked it from Jolisa who was supposed to kill Steph to prove herself. (I would think if your goal was to kill someone, you wouldn't petulantly blame them for "hijacking" that situation. What, you'd be disappointed they didn't just go along with it?)

Did they both eat that wafer? And under the circumstances, wouldn't that have been some kind of drug?

How did Pyg know someone was sending secret messages to someone? I don't think we are meant to follow any of this.

So Steph made a big judgement error revealing her id to this duplicitous girl, but it doesn't matter because by the time this was published, Steph as Batgirl no longer existed, so her identity is safe.

Ultimately I guess this is a parody of a creepy school for girls, throwing in cults, torture, initiation and training and any other staple of the genre Morrison could think of, which the hero infiltrates and takes down.

By now Steph has had plenty of reassurance and praise and I thought by now she was not as insecure, but maybe Batman's compliment is something he was originally scripted to be saying to a greener New 52 Spoiler. (Had Spoiler even be introduced into New 52 by the time this story was published? The history of the situation is a bit convoluted.)

Anyway, taken as a parody of this kind of school it's perfectly fun, and Steph shows courage, resourcefulness, and the ability to perform with or without the armored suit.

Very interesting thoughts. The first volume of Morrison's Batman Inc was very globe-trotting, sketching out huge timelines or new locations and organizations in a single issue, so I kind of didn't feel the difference between the more careful, fleshed out writing BQM tended to do at this point in Batgirl, and Morrison's. It fits a lot better into the Batman Inc run than the Batgirl run, but I'm really glad the new trades put it in here, since it does explain the purpose of issue #22.

The school mostly functions as a testing ground for Leviathan's mind control technology, though I think Morrison didn't integrate that technology well into the second half of his plot. (But that gets into my analysis of Batman Inc vol 2, which I think is a complete mess.)

I think Marcus To draws a prettier Steph than Stewart, and yes, there are a TON of unfortunate associations, but mostly, I think it's just a very nicely drawn comic about Steph. And everyone is very pretty, but it's not exploitative (I think), so that's a plus.

Steph is known to be from Gotham, so I think that's where the association with Batman comes from. I hadn't realized the identity revelation thing - but that is indeed odd. Though it does feel like she could probably get away without any serious consequences.

I think Steph probably hid the wafer under her tongue and spit it out when she attacked. No idea how Son of Pyg knew about the traitor - I think that's just Plot. I feel like a lot of Morrison's writing tends to follow that pattern.

Morrison is a big fan of "subverting" classic pulp adventure stories, and I hadn't realized how much of a classic pulp tale this one - I like reading some of those classic pulpy stories, but evidently not this type as much.

Did you notice any costume differences/elaborations that the normal art teams of Perez, Nguyen, and Garbett don't do?

[ohfellow]

I think Steph probably hid the wafer under her tongue and spit it out when she attacked. No idea how Son of Pyg knew about the traitor - I think that's just Plot. I feel like a lot of Morrison's writing tends to follow that pattern.

Right, Plot. The wafer and Pyg. It's really a hodgepodge of tropes around this kind of a school, so Morrison figures we'll add in the missing pieces, or not worry about them.

Did you notice any costume differences/elaborations that the normal art teams of Perez, Nguyen, and Garbett don't do?

Well now you're encouraging me to be obsessive.

I hadn't made a study of it, but looking it over, evidently Steph took two costumes with her to London! Heh.

Compared to the London issue by Perez, Stewart drew:

A bigger bat symbol
A smaller thigh belt
A different belt buckle
Sleeker fitting boots (no "pirate cuffs")
Cape bottom edges seem shredded
Spikes/fins on the boots

Probably closer to Garbett and Nguyen. Perez's costume is the most divergent from the norm, and Stewart clearly didn't use the Perez edition as reference.

Regarding the spikes, a new term for them: In the fight between Batgirl and "Dicky Boy" Ric Grayson in Nightwing #73, Barbara used the spikes on her gloves to free herself, and called them "razor-sharp epaulets." That's not the right term for them, an error by Dan Jurgens.

[Digifiend]

By now Steph has had plenty of reassurance and praise and I thought by now she was not as insecure, but maybe Batman's compliment is something he was originally scripted to be saying to a greener New 52 Spoiler. (Had Spoiler even be introduced into New 52 by the time this story was published? The history of the situation is a bit convoluted.)

Anyway, taken as a parody of this kind of school it's perfectly fun, and Steph shows courage, resourcefulness, and the ability to perform with or without the armored suit.

Both Stephanie and Cassandra were only reintroduced a couple of years later, in Batman Eternal I think? They were initially replaced by Harper Row.

[millernumber1]

Right, Plot. The wafer and Pyg. It's really a hodgepodge of tropes around this kind of a school, so Morrison figures we'll add in the missing pieces, or not worry about them.

Well now you're encouraging me to be obsessive.

I hadn't made a study of it, but looking it over, evidently Steph took two costumes with her to London! Heh.

Compared to the London issue by Perez, Stewart drew:

A bigger bat symbol
A smaller thigh belt
A different belt buckle
Sleeker fitting boots (no "pirate cuffs")
Cape bottom edges seem shredded
Spikes/fins on the boots

Probably closer to Garbett and Nguyen. Perez's costume is the most divergent from the norm, and Stewart clearly didn't use the Perez edition as reference.

Regarding the spikes, a new term for them: In the fight between Batgirl and "Dicky Boy" Ric Grayson in Nightwing #73, Barbara used the spikes on her gloves to free herself, and called them "razor-sharp epaulets." That's not the right term for them, an error by Dan Jurgens.

Well, you are the thread's costume detail expert!

Perez does tend to be a bit divergent from the costume, but I've grown to appreciate his work on the title more and more. He actually drew more issues/partial issues than most of the other artists associated with the run!

Both Stephanie and Cassandra were only reintroduced a couple of years later, in Batman Eternal I think? They were initially replaced by Harper Row.

Timeline: Steph and Cass deleted in September, 2011. (Batman Inc Leviathan Strikes, Brave and the Bold, Lil Gotham all remember them somewhat, but they're mostly completely gone. Especially with Didio's pettiness about Smallville Season 11)

Steph reappears in one page of Batman #28, in February 2014 (2 years and 6 months later). I don't think that really counts - I think her first real appearance in the n52 is Batman Eternal #3, in April, 2014 (2 years a 8 months - rounding up to 3 years).

Cass reappeared in Batman and Robin Eternal #1, October 2015, 3 years and 1 month later.

People like to say that Harper replaced Steph and Cass, but I'm suspicious. I asked Tynion about that at a con two years ago, and he said that wasn't the case.

[Digifiend]

That's 4 years 1 month, or did you get the year wrong?

At least I was right about it being in the Eternal comics that they returned.

[millernumber1]

That's 4 years 1 month, or did you get the year wrong?

At least I was right about it being in the Eternal comics that they returned.

Ah, yes. There's a reason I was an English major.

And additionally, yes, the Eternals are where they returned. A big reason those are some of my favorite n52 comics!

[Tsukiakari1203]

Very interesting thoughts. The first volume of Morrison's Batman Inc was very globe-trotting, sketching out huge timelines or new locations and organizations in a single issue, so I kind of didn't feel the difference between the more careful, fleshed out writing BQM tended to do at this point in Batgirl, and Morrison's. It fits a lot better into the Batman Inc run than the Batgirl run, but I'm really glad the new trades put it in here, since it does explain the purpose of issue #22.

The school mostly functions as a testing ground for Leviathan's mind control technology, though I think Morrison didn't integrate that technology well into the second half of his plot. (But that gets into my analysis of Batman Inc vol 2, which I think is a complete mess.)

I think Marcus To draws a prettier Steph than Stewart, and yes, there are a TON of unfortunate associations, but mostly, I think it's just a very nicely drawn comic about Steph. And everyone is very pretty, but it's not exploitative (I think), so that's a plus.

Steph is known to be from Gotham, so I think that's where the association with Batman comes from. I hadn't realized the identity revelation thing - but that is indeed odd. Though it does feel like she could probably get away without any serious consequences.

I think Steph probably hid the wafer under her tongue and spit it out when she attacked. No idea how Son of Pyg knew about the traitor - I think that's just Plot. I feel like a lot of Morrison's writing tends to follow that pattern.

Morrison is a big fan of "subverting" classic pulp adventure stories, and I hadn't realized how much of a classic pulp tale this one - I like reading some of those classic pulpy stories, but evidently not this type as much.

Did you notice any costume differences/elaborations that the normal art teams of Perez, Nguyen, and Garbett don't do?

Marcus To does draw really gorgeous Steph art. Compare the ballroom fight in Batgirl to it's flashback in Red Robin and To's flashback is better looking than the original art

[Tsukiakari1203]

Well, you are the thread's costume detail expert!

Perez does tend to be a bit divergent from the costume, but I've grown to appreciate his work on the title more and more. He actually drew more issues/partial issues than most of the other artists associated with the run!



Timeline: Steph and Cass deleted in September, 2011. (Batman Inc Leviathan Strikes, Brave and the Bold, Lil Gotham all remember them somewhat, but they're mostly completely gone. Especially with Didio's pettiness about Smallville Season 11)

Steph reappears in one page of Batman #28, in February 2014 (2 years and 6 months later). I don't think that really counts - I think her first real appearance in the n52 is Batman Eternal #3, in April, 2014 (2 years a 8 months - rounding up to 3 years).

Cass reappeared in Batman and Robin Eternal #1, October 2015, 3 years and 1 month later.

People like to say that Harper replaced Steph and Cass, but I'm suspicious. I asked Tynion about that at a con two years ago, and he said that wasn't the case.

I don't think Harper is Cass or Steph's replacement. She's very different from then. I think that she was created because Cass and Steph were not allowed but that she was created to be unique