Stephanie Brown: Spoiler, Robin, Batgirl Appreciation 2020

[millernumber1]

VOTE IN MY TWITTER POLL FOR STEPH'S MASK OPTIONS (second tweet for votes)!

https://twitter.com/ibmmiller/status...70886857101312

"She can see" is a strange way of putting it. On her monitors? I guess that's what it means. It could also mean "Sure, I could see that" as in "that makes sense to me, I could see either or both of these people in the role."

I don't personally see the need for a cowl, the symbol is sufficient. But I do like to see some of their faces, whether mouth or eyebrows, as you get some facial expression either way.

Black Bat was different, but most of her career Cass has had a full face mask. So I hope she returns to her Black Bat look. The full face covering was okay for Cass's time as Batgirl, simply because it was her book so everyone knew who she was. Characters who make guest appearances - well, we should see who they are, I think. Otherwise they are just kind of faceless people and as such, being minor characters, may not expand their fanbase that much.

Orphan was fully masked in Batman and the Outsiders, but was part of a small team. Didn't get as much to do as we might have liked, but a decent amount. She had some fine moments. And, was featured plenty of the time with the mask fully off.

Clearly we NEED a poll:

Full Spoiler mask
Half Spoiler mask
Bat cowl

Ha, we really don't "need" one, there are only going to be like 3 or 4 votes. (It might be interesting though to see how many votes. Is a poll something that is best as a brand-new thread, or part of this thread?)

Anyway, that's my mask post of the day! Gotta get my weekly quota in .

Well, hopefully my poll will solve the issue once and for all!

I think the idea is that Ghost Maker is a super anti-surveillance tech villain.

Throw in the Robin domino mask as well

Indeed!

Yes, that should definitely be in any poll.

I think Cass wore that as Black Bat.

Full Spoiler mask
Half Spoiler mask
Bat cowl
Domino mask
Mr. Freeze helmet
Bunny "Barbara Gordon" ears

Just kidding about the last two.

But what Sean Murphy-designed headgear has Barbara been wearing? Ignoring that it's ridiculous, it's a one-piece item that's a combination of a domino mask and bunny ears that stick up or something.

I still don't mind Sean Murphy's Batgirl mask. It's silly, but honestly, most of the masks are silly. It's about the look!

[Konja7]

I still don't mind Sean Murphy's Batgirl mask. It's silly, but honestly, most of the masks are silly. It's about the look!

Yeah. Maybe it is because I like heroes that shows a lot of face, but I don't have problem with Sean Murphy's Batgirl mask.

Some people say that mask doesn't work to hide her secret identity, but I don't understand that argument.

Robin and Niggtwing only use domino masks to cover their faces, while the Batgirl's regular cowl doesn't cover a lot more. Noyt to mention Superman.

[Tsukiakari1203]

I love the cowl but I prefer the domino

[millernumber1]

Well, I have to admit, I really did not like the Batgirl #50 backup story with Steph and Cass. I did not think they were well written at all. The are was nice, which is good, since Aneke is drawing them in Batgirls in January, but man. That writing.

[K. Jones]

I thought the concept of the story was on point, like a good idea and something that Babs might actually attempt as a teambuilding exercise. And the make-up of the team itself? I mean a BOP book that's Dinah, Helena, Stephanie and Cass? Holy crap I want that book. It's definitely time to update those Rebirth costumes (which appears like it's coming in the near future?) and that includes Dinah's and Helena's too but ESPECIALLY Cass I think.

But I've got to totally agree that the dialogue and characterization was pretty off. Off the cuff fixing it wouldn't be that hard. Have Cass say virtually no words. Have Dinah come across as more veteran. Have Helena be a bit more disruptive. Have Steph be more cringingly (and joyously) optimistic. But the cast itself, or that party of heroes, and the high concept, and art, I liked. So it is a shame to see bland, boilerplate or uncharacteristic dialogue take the whole thing down.

[Digifiend]

Cass and Steph already have new costumes, as of the Joker Warzone one-shot - that story used the wrong ones.

[millernumber1]

I thought the concept of the story was on point, like a good idea and something that Babs might actually attempt as a teambuilding exercise. And the make-up of the team itself? I mean a BOP book that's Dinah, Helena, Stephanie and Cass? Holy crap I want that book. It's definitely time to update those Rebirth costumes (which appears like it's coming in the near future?) and that includes Dinah's and Helena's too but ESPECIALLY Cass I think.

But I've got to totally agree that the dialogue and characterization was pretty off. Off the cuff fixing it wouldn't be that hard. Have Cass say virtually no words. Have Dinah come across as more veteran. Have Helena be a bit more disruptive. Have Steph be more cringingly (and joyously) optimistic. But the cast itself, or that party of heroes, and the high concept, and art, I liked. So it is a shame to see bland, boilerplate or uncharacteristic dialogue take the whole thing down.

The concept itself wasn't bad, I agree. But the execution, like nearly everything for the past year on this book, is beyond awful.

Cass and Steph already have new costumes, as of the Joker Warzone one-shot - that story used the wrong ones.

Yeah, there was a lot of shoddy craftsmanship in the whole issue. The art itself was okay, but editorial really fell down on communicating the costumes. And characterizations. And...anything good.

[Marvelman]

I'd like to see a Batgirl (Steph) & Robin (Damian) series.

[millernumber1]

I'd like to see a Batgirl (Steph) & Robin (Damian) series.

Yisssss. This would indeed be pretty great....

[Tsukiakari1203]

I thought the concept of the story was on point, like a good idea and something that Babs might actually attempt as a teambuilding exercise. And the make-up of the team itself? I mean a BOP book that's Dinah, Helena, Stephanie and Cass? Holy crap I want that book. It's definitely time to update those Rebirth costumes (which appears like it's coming in the near future?) and that includes Dinah's and Helena's too but ESPECIALLY Cass I think.

But I've got to totally agree that the dialogue and characterization was pretty off. Off the cuff fixing it wouldn't be that hard. Have Cass say virtually no words. Have Dinah come across as more veteran. Have Helena be a bit more disruptive. Have Steph be more cringingly (and joyously) optimistic. But the cast itself, or that party of heroes, and the high concept, and art, I liked. So it is a shame to see bland, boilerplate or uncharacteristic dialogue take the whole thing down.

Can Flamebird join the BoP?

Dinah needs a costume. I like Helena's just fine though

[Tsukiakari1203]

i'd like to see a batgirl (steph) & robin (damian) series.

yes please!

[ohfellow]

The concept itself wasn't bad, I agree. But the execution, like nearly everything for the past year on this book, is beyond awful.



Yeah, there was a lot of shoddy craftsmanship in the whole issue. The art itself was okay, but editorial really fell down on communicating the costumes. And characterizations. And...anything good.

The last year was -- not good. Things really went off the rails, in my opinion, when they aged Barbara up, put her in Alejo's office, and got her involved with Jason Bard. Batgirl of Burnside was at least "adorable," and the Joshua Middleton covers of that era were alone worth the price. But everything that was fun about it was thrown out.

The final story in this issue is clearly a (bad) backdoor pilot for a Birds of Prey title, but that doesn't mean it will make it to a series. DC has had trouble getting one off the ground - look what happened to the Azzarello/Lupacchino attempt. But if it does lead to a series - I hope with a different writer. (But please, not a Palmiotti/Conner production either!)

[Frontier]

The last year was -- not good. Things really went off the rails, in my opinion, when they aged Barbara up, put her in Alejo's office, and got her involved with Jason Bard. Batgirl of Burnside was at least "adorable," and the Joshua Middleton covers of that era were alone worth the price. But everything that was fun about it was thrown out.

The final story in this issue is clearly a (bad) backdoor pilot for a Birds of Prey title, but that doesn't mean it will make it to a series. DC has had trouble getting one off the ground - look what happened to the Azzarello/Lupacchino attempt. But if it does lead to a series - I hope with a different writer. (But please, not a Palmiotti/Conner production either!)

I don't see aging Barbara up as a bad thing. I think things started going off the rails when Castelluci had Babs hook up with Bard again. Scott had more respect for Barbara than that, I'd like to think.

[Tsukiakari1203]

The last year was -- not good. Things really went off the rails, in my opinion, when they aged Barbara up, put her in Alejo's office, and got her involved with Jason Bard. Batgirl of Burnside was at least "adorable," and the Joshua Middleton covers of that era were alone worth the price. But everything that was fun about it was thrown out.

The final story in this issue is clearly a (bad) backdoor pilot for a Birds of Prey title, but that doesn't mean it will make it to a series. DC has had trouble getting one off the ground - look what happened to the Azzarello/Lupacchino attempt. But if it does lead to a series - I hope with a different writer. (But please, not a Palmiotti/Conner production either!)

I dislike Palmittio/Conner most of the time, so I hope they don't write a BOP ongoing. I'm fine with Babs being 30 again.

[millernumber1]

The last year was -- not good. Things really went off the rails, in my opinion, when they aged Barbara up, put her in Alejo's office, and got her involved with Jason Bard. Batgirl of Burnside was at least "adorable," and the Joshua Middleton covers of that era were alone worth the price. But everything that was fun about it was thrown out.

The final story in this issue is clearly a (bad) backdoor pilot for a Birds of Prey title, but that doesn't mean it will make it to a series. DC has had trouble getting one off the ground - look what happened to the Azzarello/Lupacchino attempt. But if it does lead to a series - I hope with a different writer. (But please, not a Palmiotti/Conner production either!)

The last year indeed was very bad. Though I don't know that they've explicitly aged Babs up. I feel like they are still mostly acting like she's around 21.

I like the Bard romance in principle, because I have great affection for Bard from the Dixon BOP days, but this is a different Bard, and Castellucci is not writing him (or anyone) well.

That being said, I dunno how closely connected this is to Steph. It certainly could lead into Steph, with the Batgirls backup forthcoming, but nothing clear yet.

I don't see aging Barbara up as a bad thing. I think things started going off the rails when Castelluci had Babs hook up with Bard again. Scott had more respect for Barbara than that, I'd like to think.

I would not be opposed to Babs being close to 30 again, especially if it means she can mentor Steph and Cass again. However, I don't really see a sign that Babs IS aged up right now.

Scott was a better writer in terms of character, though I think her plotting was a problem (though given what we know about editorial demanding rewrites, that could very well be part of the problem).