Stephanie Brown: Spoiler, Robin, Batgirl Appreciation 2020

[Digifiend]

I thought the graphic novels were all AU, but that one uses pre-Flashpoint continuity?

[millernumber1]

Stephanie has a very brief spot in today's graphic novel Once Upon a Crime. She appears as Batgirl driving the Batmobile, along with Cassandra as Black Bat. It's a very brief shot, but still I like it. BTW Dustin Nguyen's art is as gorgeous as ever!

I saw that! It reminded me of her spot on the "A Lot of Lil Gotham" complete collected edition, where she's waving from the Batmobile. And the famous scene when she was Robin and wanted to drive the Batmobile. "Mock me at your peril, masked man."

And yes, "Batman Tales: Once Upon A Crime" is a little gem of a book. Definitely recommended.

[ohfellow]

I have used the cardstocks as indicators in sales tracking on my own in the past - for example, in discovering just how many people buy the variants for Catwoman and Supergirl. (I'm also really irritated with the cardstocks, because I think they're a wedge that DC is using to raise the prices across the board to 5 dollars a comic. But that's even less connected to Steph. )

Well it's a given prices will rise eventually whether or not they use card stocks! I don't get the point of them - do people really frame them? Are they just for speculators? But they are often better than the main covers.

I actually really like the redesigned Murphy Babs suit - though the backpack is probably my least favorite part of it.

Yeah, I don't get it. It turned out it contains a parachute, and that is at least plausible. Before they showed that, I thought maybe it contained street clothes, but that's impossible. It also could not contain her bat suit. It's just too small.

But I'm a sucker for Year One references, which is my absolutely favorite Babs Batgirl story. Pelletier is a solid artist, but he never gets me super excited - but at least it's not Koblish, Derenick, or Eaton. I actually really like Carmine - going back to his work with Rucka on Punisher - he's got a really great energy, even with weak writing (as his work on Robinson's Tec arc showed). Yes, he can look very sketchy, but I don't think he's bad at all - though I can see why he might turn some off (I also like JRJR, which I think has a similar situation in reception).

I did find Pelletier exactly like that - workmanlike, conventional, nothing exciting.

I take your point that Carmine has been around. His work is so scratchy that, for instance, there's almost never a clear drawing of Batgirl such that you can even tell what variation of Batsuit she is wearing after she kind of reconstructed it more than once recently. The last she said of it was it was better than ever - in what way?

You made several other good points but I'm running out of steam this morning .

People have brought up Once Upon a Crime - are people enjoying the DC Graphic Novel for Kids books? (Previously called Zoom.) The Young Adults line (DC Ink) is already a stretch for adults to read, maybe because there is just so much First Young Romance involved. Maybe the younger novels are just more fun for adults?

I've read several of each line. The YA books are of terrific quality but I'm not sure I will continue picking them up. But in the Kids line, Nguyen's art is usually wonderful - and I also enjoyed the Superman of Smallville by the always-great Baltazar and Franco. (On the other hand, the first Zoom title - Super Sons: The Polarshield Project - had so many awkward plot transitions that it felt like entire scenes were cut out, and the book felt like it had been written for other characters and retrofitted into unrecognizable DC characters.)

So of all the other Kids and YA OGN's DC has published over the last year, which ones are really "don't miss?"

[ohfellow]

I thought the graphic novels were all AU, but that one uses pre-Flashpoint continuity?

They seem to have freedom to choose from any prior characters and settings, mixing and matching, and inventing new characters and origins. Near total freedom? I think it's part of "everything matters." The OGNs, and Black Label, are all AU.

Even Wonder Comics' Young Justice remains a so-far unexplained combination of characters who were either missing or shouldn't know each other.

[millernumber1]

Well it's a given prices will rise eventually whether or not they use card stocks! I don't get the point of them - do people really frame them? Are they just for speculators? But they are often better than the main covers.

Yeah, I don't get it. It turned out it contains a parachute, and that is at least plausible. Before they showed that, I thought maybe it contained street clothes, but that's impossible. It also could not contain her bat suit. It's just too small.

People have brought up Once Upon a Crime - are people enjoying the DC Graphic Novel for Kids books? (Previously called Zoom.) The Young Adults line (DC Ink) is already a stretch for adults to read, maybe because there is just so much First Young Romance involved. Maybe the younger novels are just more fun for adults?

I've read several of each line. The YA books are of terrific quality but I'm not sure I will continue picking them up. But in the Kids line, Nguyen's art is usually wonderful - and I also enjoyed the Superman of Smallville by the always-great Baltazar and Franco. (On the other hand, the first Zoom title - Super Sons: The Polarshield Project - had so many awkward plot transitions that it felt like entire scenes were cut out, and the book felt like it had been written for other characters and retrofitted into unrecognizable DC characters.)

So of all the other Kids and YA OGN's DC has published over the last year, which ones are really "don't miss?"

I like the cardstocks as physical objects - they feel heavier, are nicer to hold, you don't worry as much. But that's not a full dollar more of value. Especially when they're not giving me a page count increase (or more Stephanie Brown stories ).

The backpack...yeah. I wish it were just a Bat, not straps for the pack. Ah, well.

I really enjoy a lot of the DC Kids and Teen stuff (I don't know what they're calling their teen line now that Zoom and Ink are done). The Mera title was quite nice, the Dear Justice League was very cute, Black Canary Ignite was one of my favorite titles of last year, and I'm really looking forward to the graphic novel version of Catwoman: Soulstealer (I liked the prose version a lot). But then, I also tend to like first romance stories. The Super Sons were really bad, though - unrecognizable characters, slapdash world creation, and lackluster art.

They seem to have freedom to choose from any prior characters and settings, mixing and matching, and inventing new characters and origins. Near total freedom? I think it's part of "everything matters." The OGNs, and Black Label, are all AU.

Even Wonder Comics' Young Justice remains a so-far unexplained combination of characters who were either missing or shouldn't know each other.

DC has been going in a very different direction with their newer announcements - instead of using their IP, they're creating original concepts, probably trying to grab the Smile market. Which is good for them, I guess, but I would prefer they try to use Steph. How much harder is it to adapt Steph to an OGN than creating a new IP?

[GaryFisher]

I scanned today's Alfred RIP and didn't see Steph in? Did I ignored her, or it's just that she didn't appear at all? I mean it's basically firing Steph out of the Bat Fam! Shocking and unforgivable.

[millernumber1]

I scanned today's Alfred RIP and didn't see Steph in? Did I ignored her, or it's just that she didn't appear at all? I mean it's basically firing Steph out of the Bat Fam! Shocking and unforgivable.

No, you didn't miss it. It's really bad.

[Katana500]

It defo feels like the Batfamily is split in two.

You have the A team - Barbara, Dick, Tim, Jason and Damian

Then the B team - Cass, Duke, Helena, Steph and Kate

Its wierd that their such a divide. The first five feel like Bruce's family and can tell he cares for them. The others feel alot more like employees.

[GaryFisher]

No, you didn't miss it. It's really bad.

Wow, it's just...unforgivable. Alfred's funeral, and Steph did not share a single panel!? Since when a 90s-debuted once-upon-a-time core member of Bat Fam become less important than Duke Thomas? I mean, with Steph's absence from this issue, now do they even count her as a Bat Fam member?! I'm gonna be mad at this for a while.

[Katana500]

Wow, it's just...unforgivable. Alfred's funeral, and Steph did not share a single panel!? Since when a 90s-debuted once-upon-a-time core member of Bat Fam become less important than Duke Thomas? I mean, with Steph's absence from this issue, now do they even count her as a Bat Fam member?! I'm gonna be mad at this for a while.

Its not really a funeral. Its more just the Batfamily sharing stories about Alfred and discussing quite emotionally the future of the family.

If Steph had appeared it would have been patrolling with Duke, Cass, Kate and Selina. The fact she isn't appearing in things like the City of Bane and now this makes me think their is some sort of reason we will probably find out in young justice. Most likely that she has been away with her own young justice team.

[ohfellow]

I like the cardstocks as physical objects - they feel heavier, are nicer to hold, you don't worry as much. But that's not a full dollar more of value. Especially when they're not giving me a page count increase (or more Stephanie Brown stories ).

If card stocks don't already come dinged in one of the corners, rub one the wrong way or drop it and it will get dinged. Regular covers are much more resilient. Card stocks also show smudges easily, and you can't really see near the staple unless you fold it back flat - kind of like TPBs. You can't see double-page spreads easily or any panel that crosses the centerline. And DC house style involves lots of such pages. (You don't see that art style much, or may not even at all, with Marvel or other publishers. Same freelance artists but working for different art directors.)

I really enjoy a lot of the DC Kids and Teen stuff (I don't know what they're calling their teen line now that Zoom and Ink are done).

The current lines are described each month on the inside cover of the monthly DC Previews magazine. And, I found info on the older Zoom and Ink lines:

DC Zoom is now called DC Graphic Novels for Kids - intended for readers ages 8-12
DC Ink (was ages 13-18) is now DC Graphic Novels for Young Adults - intended for readers ages 13+

DC (the comics) now intended for readers ages 13+
Black Label intended for readers 17+

DC comics themselves for some reason still have the older age ratings listed on them, even a year after the new 13+ rating debuted:

T Teen - which means 12+
T+ Teen Plus - which means 15+

The newer ratings are intended to line up with PG-13 and R ratings I believe.

The thing that's odd is that both DC Graphical Novels for Young Adults and DC Comics are 13+, but they are so obviously different.


I think Superman Smashes the Klan is rated E for Everyone - it stands entirely apart from any of the current lines.

The Mera title was quite nice, the Dear Justice League was very cute, Black Canary Ignite was one of my favorite titles of last year, and I'm really looking forward to the graphic novel version of Catwoman: Soulstealer (I liked the prose version a lot). But then, I also tend to like first romance stories. The Super Sons were really bad, though - unrecognizable characters, slapdash world creation, and lackluster art.

I liked Shadow of the Batgirl, and Harley Quinn: Breaking Glass (which has incredible artwork, character posture and expressions so in sync with the text that it's as if performed by live actors).

Mera was ok but it also has some odd juxtapositions, missing panels or scenes - or, missing chapter breaks which could explain some transitions. And I thought the book started very strong and got progressively weaker. Interestingly, Super Sons was the first Zoom and Mera was the first Ink. So I think they've gotten better.

I'll eventually get around to Under the Moon: Catwoman and Teen Titans:Raven. Sounds like Black Canary would also be worthwhile.

[millernumber1]

Wow, it's just...unforgivable. Alfred's funeral, and Steph did not share a single panel!? Since when a 90s-debuted once-upon-a-time core member of Bat Fam become less important than Duke Thomas? I mean, with Steph's absence from this issue, now do they even count her as a Bat Fam member?! I'm gonna be mad at this for a while.

You and me both. It's really disappointing. I don't think it's mean to exclude her from the Alfred memories - at this stage, since the n52, I don't think Steph has more than exchanged greetings with Alfred (though pre-Flashpoint, she had some touching moments during her Batgirl run and when she returned from the dead). But to exclude her from patrol? For no good reason? That's just petty, DC.

[Katana500]

You and me both. It's really disappointing. I don't think it's mean to exclude her from the Alfred memories - at this stage, since the n52, I don't think Steph has more than exchanged greetings with Alfred (though pre-Flashpoint, she had some touching moments during her Batgirl run and when she returned from the dead). But to exclude her from patrol? For no good reason? That's just petty, DC.

At this point surely there is a reason she is being excluded? Like it'd have been really easy to add her beside Cass and Duke. And I dont think DC would deliberetly exclude her just to annoy her fans. It makes me think Bendis has some sort of plan to explain where she has been.

[Digifiend]

I scanned today's Alfred RIP and didn't see Steph in? Did I ignored her, or it's just that she didn't appear at all? I mean it's basically firing Steph out of the Bat Fam! Shocking and unforgivable.

Yeah, that's definitely a blooper. Tim's flashback was set before she was introduced, so that's fair enough. But she should've still been on that page with Kate, Selina, Duke and Cassandra.

[millernumber1]

At this point surely there is a reason she is being excluded? Like it'd have been really easy to add her beside Cass and Duke. And I dont think DC would deliberetly exclude her just to annoy her fans. It makes me think Bendis has some sort of plan to explain where she has been.

I have liked Bendis's Steph in YJ (both our version and Earth 3), but I don't think he's going to provide the explanation, given that he said he was going to do more with her, but the Bat-office pulled her because they have plans.

But what plans, at this point? It's been many months since he said that, and we've gotten nothing except covers and possibly a short story that MIGHT include her in the Robin special.