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  1. #1396

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    Quote Originally Posted by UncannyLZ View Post
    I think a lot of your distrust in Marvel Salarta shouldn’t be aimed at Marvel. I highly doubt the company is actively sidelining Lorna. I think she got sidelined lot because of the writers not being fans of her and nostalgia. Not saying they dislike her but because she wasn’t in the forefront of a lot of x-men books, they probably didn’t develop an attachment to her. We can tell someone as Lorna fans what her personality is but even Leah admitted in interviews and in on page in X-Factir #1 not knowing her. A lot of writers have nostalgia based views of her as “Havok’s gf” but you if you’re a fan, you can see past that. I recently read all of X-Factor vol 1 that’s available digitally and so far it’s my favorite version of Polaris. She was assertive without being a flawless, she gave her relationship with Havok a chance before deciding to end it which felt more authentic than just putting them back together and displayed her somewhat snarky/abrasive yet there for her team attitude. I have a fear that she’s too powerful to be on this new X-Factor team and will only be around to do stuff with her powers.
    I've seen people who work at Marvel act incredibly petty. Sometimes making excuses, sometimes not. I could probably make a whole huge post (even blog post) just on that following a lot of research. After the past decade, I think Marvel is actively sidelining Lorna. Whether they're doing it as an intentional, deliberate act or subconsciously out of bias only matters in the sense of whether their disrespect toward Lorna is out of ignorance and indifference or out of willful malice. Results are the same.

    This can't be blamed just on the writers. Writers might be blamed for specific depictions or omissions. They can't be blamed for things like an editor having a House of M portrait redrawn to remove Lorna from it in Children's Crusade. Or Lorna excluded from the X-women variant cover last year despite having plenty of room to include her. And even within the scope of writers, the blame can only go so far and for so long before we have to admit it's not the writer. It's someone above them. A single writer treating a character poorly may be their fault. Multiple writers across half a decade? Ignoring all feedback given within that time frame?

    Even if every single one of those writers all share the exact same terrible and mistaken impression of Lorna, their editors should be stepping in to either set things right or get Lorna off that book. If that's not happening, then it means the editors support that poor treatment - at best. At worst, the editor may be the reason behind it. And support in this case includes "I don't give a damn cause I don't think she has enough worth for me to care, do whatever you want, I'm going to Vegas."


    Regarding X-Factor #1, I'm assuming you mean the 90s. I've only read bits and pieces of it. What I have seen, I'll admit was probably needed for her and the right step for her at that time given what Claremont did to her, but I'm not a fan of it. Some of my reason is really not caring for how it slots Lorna into the whole "Havok's supporting girlfriend" role. Some of it is not really liking Rahne's whole "obsessed with Havok cause something was done to her and she sees Lorna as a rival for Havok's affections" thing.

    But ultimately, my biggest reason is because Marvel just can't stop pretending 90s X-Factor is the be-all end-all of Lorna's existence and she's otherwise worthless. They act like she wasn't created until the 90s, ignoring her history with the O5. They act like she didn't move on from the 90s to experience Genosha, the Genoshan genocide, her outlook shifts and new power use and importance for mutant rights (including heightened status in the eyes of Genosha's survivors). It's abundantly clear to me that people at Marvel think of Lorna as a washed-up 90s relic whose time has passed and now she's only a useful tool they can exploit for the benefit of everyone that isn't her. Doesn't matter to any of them that Lorna broke out unexpectedly on Gifted season 1, or that she's one of the most in-demand characters with virtually everyone saying she's underappreciated and deserves way more out of Marvel. All they really care about is reinforcing their existing negative views.

    Just like people at DC who insisted a live action Wonder Woman movie wasn't feasible while a Green Lantern one was. Just like the leaked Perlmutter E-mails of him saying female-led superhero films would fail. This is just a smaller scale. Instead of all women, or the most iconic woman, it's a woman who should be respected way more by Marvel but isn't. And the reason will always come back to excuses like "she doesn't have enough fan interest" with no real proof to back it up, while I have Gifted and so much else proving how wrong they are.
    Last edited by salarta; 09-03-2020 at 02:16 PM.
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  2. #1397
    Astonishing Member Soulsword323's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UncannyLZ View Post
    Anyone know who did this cover? Found it on Pinterest but the artist isn’t listed
    Emma Dumont's impact. Polaris looks great here!

  3. #1398
    All-New Member UncannyLZ's Avatar
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    You should definitely read more X-Factor vol 1 because Polaris was the furthest thing from “Havok’s supportive girlfriend”! She get a job with and joins X-Factor because she needs the money (relatable!), goes to therapy to discuss her own issues, gives dating Havok a chance but ultimately ends things with him. She even has a confrontation with Rahne which gave more insight in her personality. For me, this series was great as I got to see more of Lorna and how her personality is set up. Still hoping we get an Acolytes book with Lorna on it in this Krakoa era

    B5224FF3-E5B7-4354-A536-E2171BCDECA0.jpg
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  4. #1399
    Ultimate Member juan678's Avatar
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  5. #1400
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    Quote Originally Posted by juan678 View Post
    Why does Polaris always have that little halo around her head?

    I'm a bit dissapointed with Spiral's hairdo. Looks like her Ultimate X Men version.

    Also X-Factor #3 is out? I looked on marvel.com and I don't see 1-3 available!
    Last edited by Frostfire; 09-03-2020 at 06:37 PM.

  6. #1401
    Astonishing Member Soulsword323's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frostfire View Post
    Why does Polaris always have that little halo around her head?

    I'm a bit dissapointed with Spiral's hairdo. Looks like her Ultimate X Men version.

    Also X-Factor #3 is out? I looked on marvel.com and I don't see 1-3 available!
    The halo is an artist choice. Part of her design.

    Not Yet. X-Factor #3 comes out next Wednesday the 9th.

  7. #1402

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    Quote Originally Posted by UncannyLZ View Post
    You should definitely read more X-Factor vol 1 because Polaris was the furthest thing from “Havok’s supportive girlfriend”! She get a job with and joins X-Factor because she needs the money (relatable!), goes to therapy to discuss her own issues, gives dating Havok a chance but ultimately ends things with him. She even has a confrontation with Rahne which gave more insight in her personality. For me, this series was great as I got to see more of Lorna and how her personality is set up. Still hoping we get an Acolytes book with Lorna on it in this Krakoa era

    B5224FF3-E5B7-4354-A536-E2171BCDECA0.jpg
    I remember seeing the pages for Lorna's visit with Doc Samson, which I liked. I also saw some pages of her for later DeMatteis issues that I also liked, as she was more aggressive, and demonstrably cared about mutant rights (from "attacking" a bigoted human to giving a speech about it). But by and large, my instinct says not to read it, and I trust my instinct. That same instinct is why I never got into Harry Potter and other things, whereas when I've gone against that instinct I've regretted it (e.g. the recent Resident Evil 3 "remake" which really wasn't a proper remake at all).

    I'm not discounting the book for certain scenes or moments, to be clear. By the same token, I think Austen is one of the best writers that Lorna's had, but that doesn't mean his writing as a whole was perfect or that there weren't some cases of issues with his depictions (e.g. Lorna shouldn't have blamed Annie for Havok's decision to leave her at the altar; it should've been squarely focused on Havok where it belonged in the context of that story). I don't say people should read all of Austen's run, I say specific issues. Likewise certain issues (e.g. Doc Samson one) may be good but I'm not keen on the whole. Especially with how Marvel limits her opportunities and development in part because of it, rather than viewing it as simply a step on the path toward where she needs to be.

    Overall, I think Lorna needs much more and better from Marvel if they're going to use her. My preference is for a solo, mini, oneshot, or her leading another team book. Though I'm inching closer toward just solo ongoing and nothing less the more Marvel treats her poorly and disregards her history/worth.
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  9. #1404
    Spectacular Member rhaenylis's Avatar
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    All hail the queen of mutants !

  10. #1405
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    I am not going to say definitively what I think of this iteration of Polaris until after X-Factor #4, but so far I will say Leah is trying harder then I felt in the Blue era, but the character needs a strong motivational core for why she is doing this detective work in the first place.

    In terms of X-Swords we will see how it shakes out. Typically Lorna was used for many such events in the old days as a puppet. That might or might not happen again. I will only say the mind control pathos was a major loser for from the character. Look at how bad assed Lorna could be if it wasn't Lorna running the show pretty much defined the 70s and 80s for her outside of weak romantic drama.

    If they are going to go down that route and I don't know they will in x-swords, but they will eventually, they need enough of Lorna there to avoid the familiar trap of such storylines. Puppet is not a good look. Claremont in the middle of her Malice arc realized that finally and decided to make it really Polaris and Malice as one conjoined entity, but without proving it or starting with the concept the audience didn't buy it and it failed. I do think Claremont actually liked writing Malice as she had an actual edge and a personality.

    Lorna was more relatable in the 90s then under Claremont, but lacked a core motivation to the character or personality. Also, she didn’t have nearly enough of a hard edge to not fall into diet Jean territory in the 90s.

    I felt the character was relatable in the little we saw her in House of X much as I felt she was relatable under Austen. The bait and switch with Empyre certainly will continue to rankle. Its the last set of comics I order ahead of time for quite awhile. Lastly, Marvel Puzzle game created a good underlying basis for the character down to her deadly smirk that was very Emma Dumont and/or post Genosha Lorna.
    Last edited by jmc247; 09-05-2020 at 04:43 PM.

  11. #1406
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    Quote Originally Posted by juan678 View Post
    I love the focus on Lorna and Rachel's powers they are the more visually interesting of the bunch. Still not really a fan of interdimensional Adventures when it comes to the X-Men I would very much like to see X Factor interact with the the current going on Earth. But I guess we'll get more X Factor synergy what's this whole X of swords event is over.

  12. #1407
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmc247 View Post
    I am not going to say definitively what I think of this iteration of Polaris until after X-Factor #4, but so far I will say Leah is trying harder then I felt in the Blue era, but the character needs a strong motivational core for why she is doing this detective work in the first place.

    In terms of X-Swords we will see how it shakes out. Typically Lorna was used for many such events in the old days as a puppet. That might or might not happen again. I will only say the mind control pathos was a major loser for from the character. Look at how bad assed Lorna could be if it wasn't Lorna running the show pretty much defined the 70s and 80s for her outside of weak romantic drama.

    If they are going to go down that route and I don't know they will in x-swords, but they will eventually, they need enough of Lorna there to avoid the familiar trap of such storylines. Puppet is not a good look. Claremont in the middle of her Malice arc realized that finally and decided to make it really Polaris and Malice as one conjoined entity, but without proving it or starting with the concept the audience didn't buy it and it failed. I do think Claremont actually liked writing Malice as she had an actual edge and a personality.

    Lorna was more relatable in the 90s then under Claremont, but lacked a core motivation to the character or personality. Also, she didn’t have nearly enough of a hard edge to not fall into diet Jean territory in the 90s.

    I felt the character was relatable in the little we saw her in House of X much as I felt she was relatable under Austen. The bait and switch with Empyre certainly will continue to rankle. Its the last set of comics I order ahead of time for quite awhile. Lastly, Marvel Puzzle game created a good underlying basis for the character down to her deadly smirk that was very Emma Dumont and/or post Genosha Lorna.
    She doesn’t need a long drawn out motivation. She’s had experience in detective work. Just because her father is a power hungry leader doesn’t mean she has to be or that she would want to be necessarily. She’s powerful and we’ve seen her lead, yes. I think Disney wanted to show a LGBTQ character as the lead as they push for more diversity.

  13. #1408

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    Quote Originally Posted by WallStreeter View Post
    She doesn’t need a long drawn out motivation. She’s had experience in detective work. Just because her father is a power hungry leader doesn’t mean she has to be or that she would want to be necessarily. She’s powerful and we’ve seen her lead, yes. I think Disney wanted to show a LGBTQ character as the lead as they push for more diversity.
    Okay, so there are several things I can say here.

    The post you're replying to doesn't say anything about leadership, but I've talked about it, so I'll dig in. The remark made here about her father's leadership style is false equivalence. Nobody has said Lorna should lead the way her father does, or out of a hunger for power (if that's the interpretation taken of Magneto's reasons). She's a different character, her reasons and style would naturally arise from the experiences of her life that had the most profound effect on her, e.g. the Genoshan genocide.

    If the reason for X-Factor having Northstar as the leader is wanting to show LGBTQ rep, then Disney's doing a pretty terrible job of giving it any actual support. Which is typical Disney, frankly. It's a second wave fringe book that hardly has any involvement in anything. Only one issue is involved in X of Swords. That said, it does have plenty more support and event involvement than Marvel was willing to give Lorna's own turn as leader with All-New X-Factor. But back to leadership, I think the real reason Northstar's leading the team is simply cause Leah likes him and wanted him to lead it.

    And I don't find anything wrong with that. But if Lorna isn't doing more important things than X-Factor, and she's not at least leading X-Factor to offset her not doing more important things, then she shouldn't be there. When Gambit was on ANXF, he'd recently had a solo book and was at that time simultaneously leader of the Thieves' Guild. When Quicksilver joined, he was heavily involved in Axis, No More Humans, etc, and afterward went back to Uncanny Avengers with Wanda. AND his presence on ANXF gave him a chance to build more of a sibling relationship with Lorna, something they hadn't been able to do for over a decade at that time. Whereas right now, Lorna's done and doing nothing except her appearance in Deadpool #6 (which was good, and I enjoyed, but she should be getting a LOT more than just that).

    Experience in detective work is a different matter from if it's the right place for her. I have experience driving a car, doesn't mean my time is best spent making deliveries all day, especially if there are other people available who are much better drivers than me. Though on the flip side of the argument: if we were to value Lorna's experience in detective work extremely highly, then we would have to again ask why Northstar is leading this team and not Lorna. Why is Lorna putting someone else in charge of this job and taking orders from them when she actually knows how to go about it? I'm sure the writing is never going to venture into this sort of sensitive area, but let's consider a hypothetical scenario where Northstar is in over his head and about to make a very wrong decision. What should Lorna do, as the more experienced investigator and person who previously "decided" not to be leader? Should she completely overrule him to make sure things actually go right? Or should she just stand by and watch it all go sideways? Worth also noting that the writing of ANXF #4-6 actually explored this (ignoring Lorna's own past leadership experience in the process), and the net result had Gambit repeatedly undermining Lorna as a leader and incredulously getting away with it.

    Lastly, back to motivation. Beyond simply having the skills, there really does have to be a reason for why a person does something. Batman fights crime because his parents were murdered. Spider-Man fights crime because with great power comes great responsibility. Magneto has led multiple mutant supremacy acts as a result of his experiences with the Holocaust and subsequent tragedies. Why is Lorna, given her history, spending her time as a member (not even a leader) of X-Factor but had absolutely no involvement whatsoever with X-Men: Empyre? Why is she bending over backwards to avoid any and all possible roles of value or responsibility in this "new era?" Is she even needed on this team when it has Rachel as a heavy hitter and Northstar as its leader?

    For the record, I can think of "answers" to these questions that would actually fit for her history as a brief step in character development. But neither of those answers are "I need to know myself better first."

    Honestly, the more I write and think on it, the more it seems to me like she just shouldn't be on X-Factor. I don't see how it's doing her any good, or how it could rise to a point of doing her good without undermining Northstar in the process. It's probably better for the book as Leah wants to write it if she's not there, or only makes rare appearances every so often as the team benefactor giving some sage advice or good resources when needed.
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  14. #1409
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    My comment on motivation wasn't a reference to her leading or not leading X-Factor. It was pointed towards the very important question of why does she even care about helping The Five and the Resurrection Protocols?

    I thought it likely that Empyre X-Men would answer that question which is why I haven't said much about it. But, that in no way happened. So, why does Lorna give a da** about being the IT for mutant resurrection? I can come up with possible reasons why she might want to, but they have no basis in anything we have seen from her. Successful characters need an underlying motivation and I haven't felt one from Lorna in a long time other then very briefly in House of X.
    Last edited by jmc247; 09-06-2020 at 09:03 AM.

  15. #1410
    Spectacular Member rhaenylis's Avatar
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    I couldn't read the third issue of X-Factor

    How was Lorna? And Rachel?

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