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  1. #1201
    Fantastic Member Kingdom X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by juan678 View Post


    deadpool 6 preview
    I would pick-up a team book with this roster in a heartbeat.

  2. #1202
    Amazing Member rhaenylis's Avatar
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    My dream would be a comic book series with a Lorna / Rachel duo where the two characters would no longer be in the shadow of Magneto and Jean
    If there are two female characters that Marvel hugely underestimates, it's these two

    But already that they took decades to tell Lorna's origins, and that it took them 58 years before deciding to grant her own solo to Sue Storm, it is impossible that it happens

  3. #1203
    Astonishing Member Soulsword323's Avatar
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    Lorna isn't being "rebooted". It's clear from her conversation with Krakoa that Lorna's history isn't being changed or ignored. From Austen to Milligan, to Brubaker, to Yost, to Carey, to David, to Bunn, Polaris' character has been inconsistent in how she's been portrayed. No one really knows what to do with her, and that conversation's been had time and time again in this very thread. Yes, there is certain qualities that have been somewhat consistent, but not enough to really stick for every writer unfortunately. Writers bounce between using her as a replacement Jean or Magneto, and that doesn't help the character. Hopefully Leah can carve out something more defined for Lorna as an individual character, but still respect what's come before. I don't know if I'll like everything she does, or even if what she does will stick, but I'm hopeful that this will lead to something more positive.

  4. #1204
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strong Girl Daken View Post
    Sometimes she seems like this elevated HOUSE OF MAGNETO royal figure with an extravagant costume and headpiece while other times she's so street level with street clothes and working for the government / doing lowkey investigations.
    That particularly duality isn't hard to reconcile in a broad context from the notion of her wanting to get away from 'expectations' on her at times. One can argue its been a facet of the character since her start in the 1960s.


    I actually have some degree of hope this duality will continue going forward on Krakoa. I do not think we are only going to be seeing the street level version of the character. But, I also would say neither version works long term without the background core that her surviving the destruction of Genosha gave her. It works as very much the glue that holds the disparate parts together of her character and gave her character a solid structure. Without it and most writers (other then Hickman) the past decade completely ignored the character doesn't do too well and becomes incoherent as she tends to fall back on getting written around the plot and other characters rather then around a core identity.

    I don't know who Polaris is as a person and I've been reading X-men for forever
    Without seeing her through the lens of a motivational core of what drives her one might like or love how she talks of the character or hate a depiction of the character, but the character will never seem to have a center. Leah had a good start and I recommend fans buy the title in store and digitally if one has the resources, but I am not going further then that as at this point.
    Last edited by jmc247; 07-31-2020 at 02:17 PM.

  5. #1205
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    Kevin Libranda should be illustrating X-Factor. His Alpha Team looks awesome!!!
    We are MUTANT...One people. One tribe. One family...Krakoa, FOREVER!!!

  6. #1206

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    Quote Originally Posted by rhaenylis View Post
    My dream would be a comic book series with a Lorna / Rachel duo where the two characters would no longer be in the shadow of Magneto and Jean
    If there are two female characters that Marvel hugely underestimates, it's these two

    But already that they took decades to tell Lorna's origins, and that it took them 58 years before deciding to grant her own solo to Sue Storm, it is impossible that it happens
    My preference is for a Polaris solo, mini, or oneshot. If she's going to be paired with another character, I think it should be with Scarlet Witch once restored as her sister. If not that, then either Jean Grey or Emma Frost, due to a) shared history and b) Marvel not doing anything to acknowledge that history. In the case with Jean, that lack of acknowledgment stretches back decades.

    On the Rachel front, I think a Rachel fan is better equipped to suggest. But if it had to come from me, my opinion is Rachel with Jean or Cyclops. Maybe with Havok as he's her uncle. Rachel with Hope is also an option, just as Lorna with Luna, Wiccan and/or Speed is an option for Lorna once the twins are her siblings again. That last suggestion for Lorna would work well with some fandom House of M ideas of Lorna as the "cool aunt."

    Lorna does very much suffer from Marvel refusing to do things with or for her because they think she's unworthy. So pushing for her to get a solo, mini or oneshot is a tall order against the biases at Marvel, but that unlikelihood doesn't change how such a focus for her is really needed to overcome decades of problems.
    Last edited by salarta; 07-31-2020 at 01:01 PM.
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  7. #1207

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    Quote Originally Posted by salarta View Post
    My preference is for a Polaris solo, mini, or oneshot. If she's going to be paired with another character, I think it should be with Scarlet Witch once restored as her sister. If not that, then either Jean Grey or Emma Frost, due to a) shared history and b) Marvel not doing anything to acknowledge that history. In the case with Jean, that lack of acknowledgment stretches back decades.

    On the Rachel front, I think a Rachel fan is better equipped to suggest. But if it had to come from me, my opinion is Rachel with Jean or Cyclops. Maybe with Havok as he's her uncle. Rachel with Hope is also an option, just as Lorna with Luna, Wiccan and/or Speed is an option for Lorna once the twins are her siblings again. That last suggestion for Lorna would work well with some fandom House of M ideas of Lorna as the "cool aunt."

    Lorna does very much suffer from Marvel refusing to do things with or for her because they think she's unworthy. So pushing for her to get a solo, mini or oneshot is a tall order against the biases at Marvel, but that unlikelihood doesn't change how such a focus for her is really needed to overcome decades of problems.
    After reading X-Factor #1 I actually think Lorna and Rachel are both in good hands with Leah! Leah gets that Lorna's history problem mostly has to do with being constantly the girlfriend in distress or the girlfriend with mental problems! Thus Lorna is joining a team of lets be honest mostly guys who like guys! Daken and Prodigy are bisexual, but honestly I think they both prefer men over women! Eyeboy is too young for Lorna! I think she is going to be single!

    We already see Lorna experimenting with her powers, experimenting with her connection to Krakoa! She wants to find out who she is, who she wants to be, she wants to be happy! A relationship with her father where she has her own space to grow, but still has a relationship with him!

    Rachel is very similar in needing to find herself! At of people find "Amazing Baby" to be annoying, but I actually think Rachel went through a lot of trauma in the last few years, mind shattering trauma at the hands of a few different people! I honestly think Rachel finds loving this warwolf baby to be therapeutic, even if he becomes dangerous later, he loves and adores Rachel and will probably always defend her!

    I feel like in Rachel's appearances up to now, she was trying really hard to fit into Scott's nuclear family desires on the moon base! Trying to be his doting daughter! It's not that she doesn't love Scott and Jean, I think they may not be paying attention to some of the things Rachel is going through! I actually wonder if Cable knows, I haven't seen him interacting with Rachel enough to see if he understands how much anger she is holding back!

    I think this is a good fit for Lorna and Rachel to be on a team together, both are characters that need more development, and Leah is already starting to establish their personalities and some of the things that both Rachel and Lorna are looking for!

    Is any writer going to have the perfect interpretation, probably not, but I think Leah genuinely loves these characters and knows their histories and that is better than a lot of other writers!
    We are MUTANT..Krakoa, FOREVER!!! “Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité”

  8. #1208

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    Quote Originally Posted by RachelGrey View Post
    After reading X-Factor #1 I actually think Lorna and Rachel are both in good hands with Leah! Leah gets that Lorna's history problem mostly has to do with being constantly the girlfriend in distress or the girlfriend with mental problems! Thus Lorna is joining a team of lets be honest mostly guys who like guys! Daken and Prodigy are bisexual, but honestly I think they both prefer men over women! Eyeboy is too young for Lorna! I think she is going to be single!

    We already see Lorna experimenting with her powers, experimenting with her connection to Krakoa! She wants to find out who she is, who she wants to be, she wants to be happy! A relationship with her father where she has her own space to grow, but still has a relationship with him!

    Rachel is very similar in needing to find herself! At of people find "Amazing Baby" to be annoying, but I actually think Rachel went through a lot of trauma in the last few years, mind shattering trauma at the hands of a few different people! I honestly think Rachel finds loving this warwolf baby to be therapeutic, even if he becomes dangerous later, he loves and adores Rachel and will probably always defend her!

    I feel like in Rachel's appearances up to now, she was trying really hard to fit into Scott's nuclear family desires on the moon base! Trying to be his doting daughter! It's not that she doesn't love Scott and Jean, I think they may not be paying attention to some of the things Rachel is going through! I actually wonder if Cable knows, I haven't seen him interacting with Rachel enough to see if he understands how much anger she is holding back!

    I think this is a good fit for Lorna and Rachel to be on a team together, both are characters that need more development, and Leah is already starting to establish their personalities and some of the things that both Rachel and Lorna are looking for!

    Is any writer going to have the perfect interpretation, probably not, but I think Leah genuinely loves these characters and knows their histories and that is better than a lot of other writers!
    I agree with all of this. I also like how this seems like a new status quo for Rachel and Lorna to stand out as characters on their own. When you really think about it, it’s kinda sad how Rachel and Lorna were tied down as characters by their relationships with other bigger characters throughout most of their character history. Whether it’s Rachel and her family dynamic with Jean/Scott and Lorna always having to be attached to Alex/Magneto, it seems X-Factor will give them the time to stand out better character wise and not be defined by their relationships.
    Emma Frost, Rogue, Felicia Hardy, Helena Bertinelli, Barbara Gordon, Monica Rambeau, Carol Danvers, Illyana Rasputin, Ororo Munroe, Harleen Quinzel, Dick Grayson, Kate Kane, Rachel Grey Summers, Gwen Stacy, Wanda Maximoff = PERFECTION!

  9. #1209

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    So I do have some remarks. Of what can be said at this time.

    Assume that a writer has a perfect interpretation. The mode of transmission, the activities of the company beyond the writer, and past treatment of the character still matter. Perfect writing is only one element. Context within which that perfect writing exists has just as much, if not more, impact as the writing itself.

    Lorna requires something that is hers. And she requires it at a high enough level to make up for decades of poor treatment. Her problems are not limited exclusively to writers not understanding her. They extend to how essential character details have been taken from her over time. Not just the fact of them, but their importance too.

    Why does the fact she was the second woman to join the X-Men not matter at all to Marvel? Why is Havok regularly acknowledged for joining the X-Men shortly after the O5 formed, but Lorna can't even be acknowledged as a historically meaningful X-woman on things such as the X-women variant cover last year?

    Why is it that Jean Grey can have a fight with Cassandra on Genosha's ruins on her book, and Storm can be outraged about the death toll of Genosha, but Marvel has refused to acknowledge Lorna surviving the Genoshan genocide and playing a pivotal role in the island's story anywhere for the past 15 years?

    Why did the Avengers books spend the first half of the 2010s pre-Axis deliberately excluding Lorna from all family moments, and post-Axis trying to replace Lorna with Luminous? What is it about attitudes at the company that compelled them to ignore her in that manner in spite of very clear interest from fans in seeing Lorna and Wanda interact as sisters?

    Change on the scale Lorna needs requires something of a much higher scale than Marvel has been willing to give her. Perfect writing will not accomplish that if perfect writing is isolated to a few scenes per issue in the span of a couple years that you would a) need to know are in the book, and b) have deep insider knowledge of the character to know what is being referenced and the gravity of it.

    It's been 8 years since Lorna's origin story was told in X-Factor #243. Has that changed anything about the way Marvel treats her? Lorna had New X-Men #132 depicting her in the rubble of Genosha, and several pages of Uncanny X-Men showing her experience in surviving the genocide. Does Marvel acknowledge Genosha for her at all today? What would the chances of Marvel ignoring the importance of such moments for Lorna be if they had been told in a solo or a miniseries instead, especially if that product sold astoundingly (as I believe it would with good writing and proper promotion/support)?

    Marvel had no problem making and promoting Worst X-Man Ever, in which they created an entirely brand new character with no prior history to headline a five-issue miniseries dedicated to him. And this was before Marvel got the rights to the X-Men franchise back. More, similar cases exist, but this is the one I know which most immediately and blatantly speaks volumes. If Marvel can do that, they can spare the funds and talent for once in all of Lorna's 52 years of existence to give her the kind of platform and spotlight she needs to rectify decades of misuse.
    Last edited by salarta; 07-31-2020 at 02:55 PM.
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    Polaris 50th anniversary minicomic written by me and drawn by Mlad, now complete!

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  10. #1210
    Spectacular Member misty101's Avatar
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    Marvel's minis aren't decided by the execs sitting around a table deciding who should get one, it's writers pitching mini series and then getting green lit.
    Either no one has ever taken an interest in Polaris to pitch one or it hasn't been a strong enough premise.

    It's quite odd to say that Marvel thinks she's unworthy, do you even have proof of someone at Marvel saying this?

  11. #1211
    Ultimate Member Wiccan's Avatar
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    I really liked Lorna's appearance in X-Factor. The whole reason why she's not leader lowkey feels like Leah making an excuse so Northstar, who's clearly her fave, can get the position, but she still managed to make it an interesting character moment for Lorna. And she's still kind of the founder as the one who talked to Northstar about getting some people together, and then presenting it to the Quiet Council. The fact that she built the boneyard is also exciting, for a few different reasons(the first, the fact that she was able to do that, and that it had to do with her connection to Krakoa, and secondly, that she took the initiative to build a place for the team, and that she wants to live there with them, kinda like she found her crew).

    Quote Originally Posted by misty101 View Post
    Marvel's minis aren't decided by the execs sitting around a table deciding who should get one, it's writers pitching mini series and then getting green lit.
    Either no one has ever taken an interest in Polaris to pitch one or it hasn't been a strong enough premise.

    It's quite odd to say that Marvel thinks she's unworthy, do you even have proof of someone at Marvel saying this?
    Lol you're new here.

  12. #1212

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiccan View Post
    I really liked Lorna's appearance in X-Factor. The whole reason why she's not leader lowkey feels like Leah making an excuse so Northstar, who's clearly her fave, can get the position, but she still managed to make it an interesting character moment for Lorna. And she's still kind of the founder as the one who talked to Northstar about getting some people together, and then presenting it to the Quiet Council. The fact that she built the boneyard is also exciting, for a few different reasons(the first, the fact that she was able to do that, and that it had to do with her connection to Krakoa, and secondly, that she took the initiative to build a place for the team, and that she wants to live there with them, kinda like she found her crew).



    Lol you're new here.
    A lot of people are like that when they are trying to figure themselves out! Lorna felt Northstar did a good job lighting a fire under the team even though she coached him through it so she encouraged him to lead and she'll be second in command! This suits her for now, and she still gets to nurture this new team as a new family she wants to be a part of!

    Leah has already said that Jean-Paul, Lorna, and Rachel are much closer friends than with the rest of the team! Lorna is trying to engage with everyone, Northstar is trying to be less of a prick and lead, and Rachel who is kind of grumpy is trying to be nicer to people other than Northstar and Lorna! Of course Rachel has her pet and her basement cave in the house Lorna made for them all! I am going to laugh if Lorna is the only one who ever dares to go down into Rachel's cave because she isn't afraid of Rachel!
    We are MUTANT..Krakoa, FOREVER!!! “Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité”

  13. #1213

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    Quote Originally Posted by misty101 View Post
    Marvel's minis aren't decided by the execs sitting around a table deciding who should get one, it's writers pitching mini series and then getting green lit.
    Either no one has ever taken an interest in Polaris to pitch one or it hasn't been a strong enough premise.

    It's quite odd to say that Marvel thinks she's unworthy, do you even have proof of someone at Marvel saying this?
    If you mean has someone explicitly said they think she's unworthy of good treatment or that they hate her, people in these positions rarely outright admit such things. This isn't the era of Len Wein saying "cripple the bitch" about paralyzing Batgirl, or Dick Giordano saying Supergirl's death was fine because she didn't add anything to the Superman mythos. Even then, word of those statements and attitudes didn't come out until decades later. It took a leak for people to find out about Ike Perlmutter shooting down female-led superhero movies with the excuse that they don't sell. No, bias is obscured with excuses to deflect or justify.

    What I do have is someone at Marvel saying she doesn't "deserve" anything because she doesn't have fan demand or interest within the company to make her a star. I also have the memory, but not the evidence (as I didn't think to take it at the time), of someone else at Marvel insisting Lorna couldn't be Magneto's daughter with a convoluted excuse of genetics "breeding true," and later saying she couldn't be in an event because events are only for A-listers and B-listers. I'm deliberately omitting names this time. People who were present know who I'm talking about.

    One, execs do decide if certain characters should get minis. We don't see the process, but if a character has a huge solo movie coming out, is an executive seriously not going to insist that someone be assigned to write a mini or something similar focused on that character for the company to further profit off sudden interest?

    Two, whether or not a proposal gets greenlit is heavily dependent, after other higher priority criteria like major company pushes or high sales numbers, on the biases of the person. Does the editor think a character will sell? If they're a huge fan, they might be predisposed to think yes and greenlight a book. If they're not, they may feel it's a waste of money and shoot it down.

    Three, even if an editor is open to everything and indicates no biases (from which pitches may be tailored to their personal likes), you then have the corporate culture. People who are hired by a company, are hired because they are viewed as fitting within the culture. This is natural for all companies. But in creative companies, it means people who think the same way are more likely to get hired than people who don't.

    There are many layers to these issues. Comic book companies are less blatant about it than video game companies, but the issues are still there.
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    Polaris 50th anniversary minicomic written by me and drawn by Mlad, now complete!

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  14. #1214

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    Another teal-bandit, this one inspired by the scene in Gifted where Lorna washes out her black hair dye to reveal her green hair.



    Which I felt was a really cool, modern and on point way of remaking her origin story hair color reveal.

    Last edited by salarta; 08-01-2020 at 09:27 AM.
    I can also be reached on Twitter and WordPress.

    Polaris 50th anniversary minicomic written by me and drawn by Mlad, now complete!

    Gallery of Polaris commissions (without NSFW or minicomics)

  15. #1215
    Astonishing Member Thirteen's Avatar
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    Brunette Lorna Appreciation...
    (Ive never seen these pages before!)



    (except for the X-Factor origin flashback...which I hate)

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