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  1. #136

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    The problems I currently have with Lorna on "X-Factor."

    1. The title is X-Factor. If this book was titled literally anything else (short of "X-Havok'sGirlfriend" or similarly bad), it wouldn't be as much of an issue to me.
    2. Lorna isn't leading the book, and has no other more important things she's doing simultaneously. This is exacerbated by the title of the book being X-Factor. Character progression wise, it's a huge backstep to go from leader to not. Unless Marvel intends to do something far more important with her outside of X-Factor, it would frankly be better if she wasn't on the book at all. It just makes her look like a stepping stone for characters Marvel likes and respects far more than they will ever like or respect her. This isn't like how Gambit had just stepped off a solo book before ANXF. Lorna's had literally nothing comparable since ANXF in 2014.
    3. Lorna's prior turn at leadership was undermined on multiple levels - both in corporate (no promo, and important moments like ANXF #14 buried from view) and in writing (ANXF #4-6). Pair that with how Blue exploited her to promote Havok leading a new team, and Marvel can't legitimately say they gave her a real chance. She deserves one. Rather than some other character being leader while she's just stuck on the book cause Marvel hates her yet knows they begrudgingly need to use her or else fans will move forward without Marvel.
    4. Havok. I know red flags when I see them. If he's getting a mention, it means he's seen as important to anything done with Lorna. Especially when things like Genosha could've been mentioned and weren't.


    When ANXF was announced, I got excited and then the book undermined her for several issues while Marvel essentially sabotaged it before it turned around for the better with ANXF #7. When her return on Blue was announced, I was skeptical but waited, and my suspicions were proven well-founded when Havok got to hijack her return while she was used mainly to promote Havok and Magneto. I've been burned enough. I don't feel like "waiting and seeing" when Marvel's repeatedly and progressively proven that I should prepare for the worst whenever I see red flags.

    If they want me to start believing they intend to do good things with her, I need to see them do it. I'd need to see Genosha come up with her when it matters instead of treated like it never happened. I need to see Havok not brought up every single time she shows up anywhere (or hey, maybe Marvel can just have Havok obsess about how much he needs Lorna from now on in everything he does to balance it out). I need to see some kind of awareness that Lorna has value, that they care about fans' interest in her, and that they want to explore what she has to offer for real. Remarks like "she's a guiding light" are only good when paired with some tangible reward. Otherwise they're just shiny objects in the distance that don't take you anywhere. Or worse, crash the ship because they took it the wrong way.

    If I sound like a jerk, it's because Marvel's pushed me toward it over the span of several years. It only counts as being overly sensitive when you've not been given constant and repeated justification to be so.
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  2. #137

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    In much better news, the piece I commissioned from Fosslis is complete!





    There's a NSFW variant of them naked as well, which I'm not posting here for obvious reasons. I'll be saying where the NSFW variant can be found on my other social media accounts.
    I can also be reached on Twitter and WordPress.

    Polaris 50th anniversary minicomic written by me and drawn by Mlad, now complete!

  3. #138
    Incredible Member houndsofluv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulsword323 View Post
    X-trash? That's way too harsh. I think its an eclectic group of characters, and I'm intrigued as to how they'll be interacting with one another. I'd say Polaris, Rachel, and Daken, are all on the same level of interest to readers IMO.

    Its unpopular in here, but I find the title irrelevant. Yes, its true its not going to be a guaranteed seller like titles with X-Men in it, but I care more about what the writer does with the character. It all comes down to the creatives behind the title, and what they do with the cast. It sounds like Leah has things planned for Polaris, and hopefully its something that can finally push her own story forward.
    Quote Originally Posted by Soulsword323 View Post
    Lorna showed up in House of X and X-Men 1. Saying she can't exist outside of X-Factor has already been proven false. Also, the book is dealing with resurrections. That's one of the big things to come out of HoX/PoX. It's not unimportant.

    I understand wanting to see a character graduate to another title, but I think its more important what work the writer does with the character.
    Agreed 100% . I'm just glad shes gonna appear on a regular basis, especially on a book thats been teased as having an important role in the worldbuilding of the franchise. I feel like this is a win..

    Hickman isnt afraid of writing Lorna and what he has written of her has been good. She may not be the epicenter of the x-men mythos and personally im fine with that - it wouldnt make sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by jmc247 View Post
    I am not going to speak to how long its going to last much other then to talk about the market in general. HoX brought back some interest, but its already reverting to the pre-HoX norm. Digital adds some padding as do the trades, but its rough going for the comics these days as they have huge competition from other mediums. Any title that wants to make it two years these days is going to have to really catch the zeitgeist of fans.

    Comic shops have a massive say in this. They bet on comics with casts and creative teams they think will be successful with how many copies they order. If they order 100K copies for the first comic by issue 4 they are usually less then half that though probably can continue without more bleeding. The last version of X-Factor was dead on arrival. Comic shops under ordered and it started around 47K. That combined with a early slow and muddled start meant death.

    Marvel isnít being subtle that the early 90s is in right now and they are banking on nostalgia. Though they also know the current generation of Polaris fans donít have the same image as the early 90s super fan so itís led to interesting summaries that arenít factually wrong, but also you wouldnít have seen not long ago as they try to marry fanbases of different eras..
    I think we're getting too caught up in the naming of the book. Sure the title is supposed to have nostalgic appeal, but consider what the story is actually going to be about beyond the title - the resurrection protocols, something that no fan has been able to stop talking about since they were revealed. Pair the attention-grabbing concept with a fresh, up and coming creative team and this book should by all accounts have legs. X-Factor, X-Force, X-whatever, its gonna be judged by its contents

  4. #139

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    Quote Originally Posted by houndsofluv View Post
    Hickman isnt afraid of writing Lorna and what he has written of her has been good. She may not be the epicenter of the x-men mythos and personally im fine with that - it wouldnt make sense.
    He isn't afraid of writing Lorna to be talked at by Magneto and Cyclops about either exposition or things relevant to their characters.

    Acknowledging and using key character history instead of using her to promote other characters, and making up for past mistreatment with more meaningful roles, doesn't require her to be "the epicenter of the x-men mythos." Insisting on better is not the same as demanding the absolute best one can imagine.
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  5. #140
    Astonishing Member AbnormallyNormal's Avatar
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    Do you think Lorna and Daken will have a begrudging mutual understanding in this book? Since they worked together recently in BLUE and maybe they're both "hardasses" in a way? I'm not sure but it could be.

    I'm still trying to think of Lorna's dynamics with these other teammates of hers.

    I'd have to go re-read her outer space voyage with Rachel to see how that went. Did they get along well, have much conversations ? They do have some similarities definitely...

    Northstar eh I really don't know how that will go AT ALL

    I feel like Lorna (at this point) would just view Prodigy or EyeBoy as irrelevant unless they could help assist her on a mission
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  6. #141
    Spectacular Member AZPolaris's Avatar
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    I think Lorna and Rachel are really going to bond even deeper. "Aunt" or "big Sis" Lorna may really give them both some good character moments. She had been on a team with Northstar before. I think she may become a voice of reason for him. I have a feeling that something is going on with Aurora and she may be MIA for a minute. I don't see her being dismissive to the younger characters. I think Lorna has a lot to offer these characters and also I think that being leader of the team could get in the way of her growth in other areas. I am actually going to have a little faith in Leah and see what she can do with our girl. The fact that Lorna will be written by a woman means that I can look forward to a completely different voice. Maybe her most authentic voice yet. As far as Alex, I think that he has been such a big part of her story that it would be naÔve to not explore it when getting to know the character. This by no means suggests that he will play a role in the book. I am also surprised that no one has talked about the possible crossover with Excalibur that was mentioned. That could be VERY fun! If we want Lorna to move forward then we need to move with her. I have been on this train called Lorna Dane since the late 80's and this seems like something different. I remain hopeful and excited!!

  7. #142
    Fantastic Member DAHX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AbnormallyNormal View Post
    Do you think Lorna and Daken will have a begrudging mutual understanding in this book? Since they worked together recently in BLUE and maybe they're both "hardasses" in a way? I'm not sure but it could be.
    That's how I imagine them too. I think Daken and JP will have more difficulties while I can see Daken listening to Lorna, even if he gets on her nerves from time to time. I like that they worked together on a team already, that's a good start
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  8. #143
    Incredible Member Jumpyshark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZPolaris View Post
    I think Lorna and Rachel are really going to bond even deeper. "Aunt" or "big Sis" Lorna may really give them both some good character moments. She had been on a team with Northstar before. I think she may become a voice of reason for him. I have a feeling that something is going on with Aurora and she may be MIA for a minute. I don't see her being dismissive to the younger characters. I think Lorna has a lot to offer these characters and also I think that being leader of the team could get in the way of her growth in other areas. I am actually going to have a little faith in Leah and see what she can do with our girl. The fact that Lorna will be written by a woman means that I can look forward to a completely different voice. Maybe her most authentic voice yet. As far as Alex, I think that he has been such a big part of her story that it would be naÔve to not explore it when getting to know the character. This by no means suggests that he will play a role in the book. I am also surprised that no one has talked about the possible crossover with Excalibur that was mentioned. That could be VERY fun! If we want Lorna to move forward then we need to move with her. I have been on this train called Lorna Dane since the late 80's and this seems like something different. I remain hopeful and excited!!
    With all her experience as such a long standing X-Man, I totally agree, and I love Lorna being the Big Sis or Aunt of the team, providing wisdom and authority even if she isn't the leader. Coupled with the exploration of the most fascinating parts of Krakoa with the resurrections and The Five, this book could really be something for both Lorna and the X-Men line. I'm very excited, as I've really liked the majority of Williams' work.

  9. #144
    Mighty Member darewithpeace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by salarta View Post
    In much better news, the piece I commissioned from Fosslis is complete!





    There's a NSFW variant of them naked as well, which I'm not posting here for obvious reasons. I'll be saying where the NSFW variant can be found on my other social media accounts.
    its beautiful meme
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  10. #145
    Astonishing Member Soulsword323's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZPolaris View Post
    I think Lorna and Rachel are really going to bond even deeper. "Aunt" or "big Sis" Lorna may really give them both some good character moments. She had been on a team with Northstar before. I think she may become a voice of reason for him. I have a feeling that something is going on with Aurora and she may be MIA for a minute. I don't see her being dismissive to the younger characters. I think Lorna has a lot to offer these characters and also I think that being leader of the team could get in the way of her growth in other areas. I am actually going to have a little faith in Leah and see what she can do with our girl. The fact that Lorna will be written by a woman means that I can look forward to a completely different voice. Maybe her most authentic voice yet. As far as Alex, I think that he has been such a big part of her story that it would be naÔve to not explore it when getting to know the character. This by no means suggests that he will play a role in the book. I am also surprised that no one has talked about the possible crossover with Excalibur that was mentioned. That could be VERY fun! If we want Lorna to move forward then we need to move with her. I have been on this train called Lorna Dane since the late 80's and this seems like something different. I remain hopeful and excited!!
    I do hope we see more of Lorna and Rachel's relationship. They should technically be close, seeing as how they spent a good chunk of time in space, but that largely happened off panel in terms of development. So fingers crossed that Leah does more with them than previous writers.

    I'm not sure if she'll do this or not, but with JP's sister being included (potentially), I'd love to see Williams touch on Lorna's former siblings. We still haven't seen anyone explore that, and while she wasn't super close to Wanda, she did have a good bond with Pietro. Would be nice to even see a brief moment of Polaris reflecting on the recton.

    As for Prodigy, Lorna is someone who also lost her powers (twice, actually), so that's something they have in common, and could bond over.

    Quote Originally Posted by DAHX View Post
    That's how I imagine them too. I think Daken and JP will have more difficulties while I can see Daken listening to Lorna, even if he gets on her nerves from time to time. I like that they worked together on a team already, that's a good start
    Daken is one of my favorite characters, and I'm excited to see him and Lorna together again. I hate that we didn't get to spend too much time with Polaris' team in Blue, so I'm happy that we're getting more of these two together again. Looking forward to how their relationship will develop.

  11. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by AbnormallyNormal View Post
    Do you think Lorna and Daken will have a begrudging mutual understanding in this book? Since they worked together recently in BLUE and maybe they're both "hardasses" in a way? I'm not sure but it could be.
    There is a lot of potential there, but it depends on the take on her and we haven’t gotten any real guidance there. Will Lorna be a competent experienced 'hardass' as you put it here? If so the relationship has a lot of potential. If she is the team mom, not so much.

    I'd have to go re-read her outer space voyage with Rachel to see how that went. Did they get along well, have much conversations ? They do have some similarities definitely...
    They talked about their significant others and that was about it. A half decade on the same team and this was as deep as their relationship got from what we were shown.

    Last edited by jmc247; 01-20-2020 at 11:29 AM.

  12. #147
    Fantastic Member Siena Blaze's Avatar
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    Yeah there's a good chance Lorna can't have an edgy role in this one considering the cast and her being the mature veteran character. Hopefully, it'll be interesting to see what shape her character takes in this run. If she's boring as hell, I just pray I get something like a new look and pretty new artwork of course. I always consider her current outfit as the lazy version of the original. Anyway, I too am hoping for some meaningful Rachel/Lorna development together since there was practically zero of that in space.

  13. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siena Blaze View Post
    Yeah there's a good chance Lorna can't have an edgy role in this one considering the cast and her being the mature veteran character. Hopefully, it'll be interesting to see what shape her character takes in this run. If she's boring as hell, I just pray I get something like a new look and pretty new artwork of course. I always consider her current outfit as the lazy version of the original. Anyway, I too am hoping for some meaningful Rachel/Lorna development together since there was practically zero of that in space.
    She is not going to be the firebrand that much is clear and that is ok for the current set up. Writing Lorna as a mature veteran character not coming off like stale bread requires the nuance they have with characters like Emma or her father in similar roles. Some writers can thread the needle with her and some have trouble.

    Lorna coming across grizzly murders of mutants and not doing anything about their killers would be tough for the character as I understand her and her history. Obviously, there are iterations of her that wouldn't care and spend all her time talking about her ex. I prefer to see how she reacts based on her own history and most writers don't get that deep with her. We will see how this title goes.
    Last edited by jmc247; 01-20-2020 at 02:21 PM.

  14. #149
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    Or maybe she could come to see that violence only leads to more violence kind of thinking, not saying that she wouldn't be angry at what she'd see but come to think that she couldn't just strike back for every mutant death and I'm hoping that Williams won't just bash Alex and their relationship or act like it'll never happen again...or make it so that if she has a new relationship that's she's not pushing it just to try and show that it's so great and all of that kind of thing...

  15. #150
    Incredible Member Jumpyshark's Avatar
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    I mean, I would expect that Lorna will have strong opinions about Krakoa (as seen in HoX) and she's not shy when it comes to discussions (such as with Random), so I'd be surprised if she wasn't prepared to get into it as they encounter thorny ethical situations. Same for Rachel - she went in on Storm in X-Men Vol. 4 re: Arkea.

    I really don't get the endless Polaris pessimism, but don't take that as lack of understanding of your views. Every new writer on every character is fresh start, so rooting through a single interview to take things to wild conclusions is weird to me, but go off I guess.

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