Lorna Dane: Polaris Appreciation 2020

[coveredinbees]

After he made her a nexus of negativity. lol Extreme!

[Devaishwarya]

Yes. After Zala-Dane claimed her magnetic powers...we then see Lorna on a ship amidst hostile crew members and being attacked where she suddenly grew in strength and size and durability...because of all the negativity around...completely out of the wtf?-blue.

I still don't quite understand how she regained magnetic powers after losing them on M-day. I vaguely remember Apocalypse (or was it Magneto? that period is really all such a blur) grafting something to her spine that allowed her to simulate magnetic control but...

My headcanon advises me to just ignore all that crap...As of HoX/PoX she's a mutant with 100% natural NGMO mutant powers.

[Havok83]

Yes. After Zala-Dane claimed her magnetic powers...we then see Lorna on a ship amidst hostile crew members and being attacked where she suddenly grew in strength and size and durability...because of all the negativity around...completely out of the wtf?-blue.

I still don't quite understand how she regained magnetic powers after losing them on M-day. I vaguely remember Apocalypse (or was it Magneto? that period is really all such a blur) grafting something to her spine that allowed her to simulate magnetic control but...

My headcanon advises me to just ignore all that crap...As of HoX/PoX she's a mutant with 100% natural NGMO mutant powers.

It was Apocalypse. When she was in space however, she was examined by one of the Shi'ar scientists whom confirmed she was a mutant, so we can only assume that Apocalypse tech didnt just simulate her powers, but reactivated her X-gene

[coveredinbees]

When she met her best friend, Daap. <3

[whitecrown]

What do you guys think of the recent rumor about the MCU X-Men team that features Havok as a main character but no sign or mention of Polaris?

[Havok83]

I dont think about that

[whitecrown]

Since Marvel seems to love the whole concept of Magneto having superhero children and Wanda and Pietro have been retconned away and will never hold that role in the MCU, it seems a shame if they don't try and capitalize on that with Lorna and introduce her. I still think one of the worst things that hampered any chances of her being a major character in Marvel was the fact that right after she was introduced as Magneto's daughter, that was retconned away. She could have been one of the first female antiheroes in comics and someone torn between her loyalty to her father and her new friends in the X-Men.

[whitecrown]

In terms of behind the scenes reasoning, I think it had something to do with Claremont just not knowing what to do with her - classic move of his, when he didn't know what to do with a character he'd change up their powerset. Not a bad strategy but I'm glad it didn't stick w/ Lorna lol. iirc It was undone during the Muir Island Saga when he was finishing up his first run

He wanted to give her a new codename to fit her new powers so I think he planned for her to permanently be stuck with her new strength powers. I'm not sure if he wanted to keep her as a main cast member after this though. I didn't care at all for the super strength and size-changing but I did feel that negativity kinda went with her codename and worked with her magnetic powers. Maybe she could have absorbed negative energy to increase her magnetic powers instead and been able to "invert" characters by altering their polarity.

[houndsofluv]

I dont think about that

lolll
yeah I've resigned myself to taking what I'm given. Not a huge fan of Lorna/Alex anyways

[jmc247]

Since Marvel seems to love the whole concept of Magneto having superhero children and Wanda and Pietro have been retconned away and will never hold that role in the MCU, it seems a shame if they don't try and capitalize on that with Lorna and introduce her. I still think one of the worst things that hampered any chances of her being a major character in Marvel was the fact that right after she was introduced as Magneto's daughter, that was retconned away. She could have been one of the first female antiheroes in comics and someone torn between her loyalty to her father and her new friends in the X-Men.

There was never an official story about that, but I strongly suspect based on all I have seen the hand of editorial in '68-69 getting cold feet on the youth rebellion storyline they had going for them. They made Lorna's decision for her by the retcon rather then letting her make up her own mind between mutant supremacy and the X-Men.

Lorna had two 1960s roles one as the anti-hero/anti-villain Queen of Mutants and Daughter of Magneto. The second role was as Jean's BFF and energy manipulator of the X-Men. When Claremont took over he viewed it as a Storm vs Lorna contest for the same role and Lorna lost that fight hard and it colored almost everything he did with Lorna's character. You aren't wrong though if not for the retcon I think Claremont would have kept Lorna through his run as an honorable anti-hero/anti-villain and occasional X-Men ally. That would have made her a major player in the x-books and outside it.

As for the films I wouldn't pay too much attention to the rumors yet. I think they are tossing out a lot of ideas and seeing what catches on and some sites just making stuff up. Lorna does have a big problem though. Other characters like Mystique and Emma (and Magneto) have firmly become the middle ground characters between the X-Men and mutant antagonists and Lorna is also firmly seen as not an X-Man and having no real role among their soap both in the comics and outside them.

I see only one real path for the character to become relevant to the core of the X-Men in the comics. I know it won't happen anytime soon and it doesn't have to, but she needs a arc that pits her against the X-Men and her father if he is alive. After that you have a decade of building long defect relationships and stories that almost write themselves.

Outside the comics in the next animated series... lets say Lorna will suffer from the House of M not being a thing unlike WATXM the animated series. A potential role for her is less obvious to be had, but a generally think there too there is an opportunity for her to be an ally and foe to her father as well as the X-Men. I generally think the direction Marvel should look at is a more youth revolutionary direction, but different then dad.

[Havok83]

I dont consider Lorna not being Magneto's daughter to be a retcon.. It was proven to not be in the same story that introduced her. She being his kid was a red herring, not a retcon which is done when a writer goes back and changes continuity. Thats not what happened with her in the 60s

[jmc247]

I don't think they went into planning the story intending for the second and third plot twist is how I would put it and there were three plot twists. She is his daughter (X-Men 50), she isn't his daughter (X-Men 52), the Magneto in the storyline was really a robot (X-Men 58). The artist on the story said he bolted from the book with issue 51 because it had become a mess.

In the end it doesn't matter nor does it matter what Claremont had it mind in the 70s and 80s. That is the past not the future. Though there are important lessons to be had in regard to the past about having a clear place to fit in as a character.

Lorna is not going to compete successfully for Emma, Mystique, Jean or Storm's role on the X-Men. Nor will she compete for her father's. She needs something unique, but it is going to have overlapping features to other characters. There are too many characters around with too many core dynamics for Lorna not to over lap some other characters themes.

[whitecrown]

There was never an official story about that, but I strongly suspect based on all I have seen the hand of editorial in '68-69 getting cold feet on the youth rebellion storyline they had going for them. They made Lorna's decision for her by the retcon rather then letting her make up her own mind between mutant supremacy and the X-Men.

Lorna had two 1960s roles one as the anti-hero/anti-villain Queen of Mutants and Daughter of Magneto. The second role was as Jean's BFF and energy manipulator of the X-Men. When Claremont took over he viewed it as a Storm vs Lorna contest for the same role and Lorna lost that fight hard and it colored almost everything he did with Lorna's character. You aren't wrong though if not for the retcon I think Claremont would have kept Lorna through his run as an honorable anti-hero/anti-villain and occasional X-Men ally. That would have made her a major player in the x-books and outside it.

As for the films I wouldn't pay too much attention to the rumors yet. I think they are tossing out a lot of ideas and seeing what catches on and some sites just making stuff up. Lorna does have a big problem though. Other characters like Mystique and Emma (and Magneto) have firmly become the middle ground characters between the X-Men and mutant antagonists and Lorna is also firmly seen as not an X-Man and having no real role among their soap both in the comics and outside them.

I see only one real path for the character to become relevant to the core of the X-Men in the comics. I know it won't happen anytime soon and it doesn't have to, but she needs a arc that pits her against the X-Men and her father if he is alive. After that you have a decade of building long defect relationships and stories that almost write themselves.

Outside the comics in the next animated series... lets say Lorna will suffer from the House of M not being a thing unlike WATXM the animated series. A potential role for her is less obvious to be had, but a generally think there too there is an opportunity for her to be an ally and foe to her father as well as the X-Men. I generally think the direction Marvel should look at is a more youth revolutionary direction, but different then dad.

I know Claremont revealed to a fan that Lorna and Zaladane were supposed to share a white-haired man for a father so I'm assuming he wanted to bring the Magneto connection back. And Zaladane I think he planned to revive and make a major player in the X-Universe so that would likely have elevated Lorna's role as well. At the same time, it's a bit too little, too late especially since he didn't get to actually enact any of these plans let alone reveal Lorna's origin. And while I am a Claremont fan, he clearly had no regard for Lorna and only seemed to develop an interest in her when he was turning her into She-Hulk 2.0 so I don't have much faith in him when dealing with her. Without Magneto, Lorna's connection to Jean ignored, and Claremont not carring for Bobby either, that left Lorna with only a Z-Lister like Zaladane and Alex as Lorna's sole X-Connections and Alex ended up flat out abandoning Lorna. People bring up the Chuck Austen era as a reason why Alex and Lorna shouldn't be together anymore but frankly the seeds were planted even in the Claremont days with the Malice possession.

I suppose my hope was that since Marvel has always had an obsession with Magneto having children and Wanda and Pietro not being able to fill those roles in the MCU anymore, they might finally introduce Lorna. She's never been in the X-Films before so that would be a novel addition to their new line of films. However, if this report has any veracity to it, it sounds like she's being snubbed again and for whatever reason, they want to bring back Havok. That surprised me because he already had a series of films and he was completely forgettable in all of them. The only thing I can think of is that they want to do something with the Summers-Grey bloodline so they feel the need to throw him in there as well and that's a real shame that Havok gets another seat at the table yet again, and Lorna doesn't even exist.

If the movies could give Lorna a chance, they would completely rehabilitate public perception of her no matter how badly the comics have treated her. At the end of the day, most people aren't familiar with the comics but practically everyone sees the movies. Jean, Storm, and Mystique have become iconic enough from multiple films, plus video games, TV shows, etc. so Lorna as new blood could have added that extra element. As for Emma, frankly she's not known at all outside of the comics and even then only with contemporary readers and not the so-called old guard, so I don't consider her a danger to Lorna at all, provided Marvel would give Lorna a chance to shine in film.

[salarta]

What do you guys think of the recent rumor about the MCU X-Men team that features Havok as a main character but no sign or mention of Polaris?

I've heard the rumors are from sources that can't be trusted.

That said, in a hypothetical scenario where it is true, I have two thoughts. The first is I would be glad that at the very least, Lorna isn't stuck around Havok. It's much better for her not to be forced into that position even if it means not being used in the MCU.

But second, it would be extremely telling of the way people think at Marvel. That they decided Havok should show up first even though Lorna was created and got involved with the X-Men before him. And it would demonstrate yet again how Lorna gets exploited and misused to promote Havok but that history never, ever flips around to bring good things for Lorna.

I could also see it happening simply because Marvel's made repeated efforts since 2017 to promote Havok while treating Lorna like she has no worth outside of promoting him and other male characters. Further, it would show just how deep bias runs at Marvel. They like to pretend past comic book fan interest in each character shows their viability for future use in comics. They've used that "logic" to justify why Lorna can't have anything done with her that gives her a spotlight. Yet by that same "logic," they would have to look at and adhere to what Fox did with each character in live action, which shows that there was way more consumer interest in Lorna on Gifted than in Havok on First Class.

To make this clearer: I'm not saying anything against Havok's quality of character for himself or interest he could gain in an ideal scenario. I'm simply laying bare the double standards that would be in play if Marvel decided Havok should get this huge spotlight in the MCU while Lorna gets nothing. If a certain "logic" used to justify screwing Lorna over in comics somehow no longer applies in the MCU, then it's not logic. It's a double standard.

I dont consider Lorna not being Magneto's daughter to be a retcon.. It was proven to not be in the same story that introduced her. She being his kid was a red herring, not a retcon which is done when a writer goes back and changes continuity. Thats not what happened with her in the 60s

It wasn't proven, it was claimed indirectly by Iceman. That's separate from intent though. I think the intent was "Lorna's now not Magneto's daughter," but I also think the actual original intent of the whole storyline was for Lorna to really be Magneto's daughter.

One thing worth noting in all of this is that Steranko's previously said he worked with Arnold Drake on the story but he felt the collaboration undercut his creative vision and didn't meet his standards. Steranko has also regularly said the X-Men #50 cover is one of his top 5 fave covers he did. Notably, Steranko was still on the book for X-Men #51 but was no longer involved in the X-Men books when X-Men #52 - which claimed Lorna isn't Magneto's daughter - got published. Meaning that whatever decisions were made behind the scenes whether by Arnold Drake, Marvel editorial, etc, it's highly likely based on Steranko's interest and the timing that Steranko did not agree with the retcon that said Lorna wasn't Magneto's daughter after all.

Given all this, I'd say there's more backing the notion Lorna was always intended to be Magneto's daughter and got retconned out of it than that not being his daughter was the plan all along. Plus, just from a narrative and creative standpoint, it seems very bizarre to spend three issues building up Lorna as this amazing heir of Magneto only to throw in this anticlimactic "lol she's not after all" twist. What point does it serve to put in this work of developing Lorna only to pull "a wizard did it (or in this case, robot)" on her at the last minute.

[AbnormallyNormal]

I see no reason why Wanda and Pietro are "for sure" not going to be Magneto's kids in the MCU

They definitely could be?

I agree that any speculation on an MCU lineup currently is SUPER rumor-based. Wait til we have like... anything real backing it up. A photo, anything.

I would, like jmc, prefer for them to introduce Polaris in a more middle-ground morally gray position. Would also prefer her familial bonds to be established.

As for the discussion earlier about Claremont changing Lorna's mutation I think his goal was to HELP her actually. He probably viewed her having the same mutation as Magneto as a problem in terms of her not feeling as unique then. So I don't know why people think it meant he "hated" her or wanted to make her suffer more or ignored forever. I mean maybe it was to make her as a character suffer but that doesn't necessarily mean he hates the character, he liked to make Storm suffer quite a bunch after all, and others.

It's still an issue to be had, the fact Lorna's mutation is the same as Magneto's. Casual fans are always using it a reason to ignore her...