Page 58 of 66 FirstFirst ... 848545556575859606162 ... LastLast
Results 856 to 870 of 980
  1. #856
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    8,668

    Default

    I suppose my hope was that since Marvel has always had an obsession with Magneto having children and Wanda and Pietro not being able to fill those roles in the MCU anymore, they might finally introduce Lorna. She's never been in the X-Films before so that would be a novel addition to their new line of films. However, if this report has any veracity to it, it sounds like she's being snubbed again and for whatever reason, they want to bring back Havok. That surprised me because he already had a series of films and he was completely forgettable in all of them. The only thing I can think of is that they want to do something with the Summers-Grey bloodline so they feel the need to throw him in there as well and that's a real shame that Havok gets another seat at the table yet again, and Lorna doesn't even exist.

    If the movies could give Lorna a chance, they would completely rehabilitate public perception of her no matter how badly the comics have treated her. At the end of the day, most people aren't familiar with the comics but practically everyone sees the movies. Jean, Storm, and Mystique have become iconic enough from multiple films, plus video games, TV shows, etc. so Lorna as new blood could have added that extra element. As for Emma, frankly she's not known at all outside of the comics and even then only with contemporary readers and not the so-called old guard, so I don't consider her a danger to Lorna at all, provided Marvel would give Lorna a chance to shine in film.
    I won't say its set in stone yet that Wanda and Pietro won't be his kids at least until I see how the WandaVision show and Strange film shake out. Its not a hard retcon if they want to do it, but if there are no strong signs they are going that route soon it probably won't happen.

    Lorna banking on her connection to Magneto alone to get a seat at the table is far from a sure fire bet no matter what they do with Wanda and Pietro. If they set Magneto up as the Thanos of the X-Men's first big phase that the team builds up to fighting over the course of many films then Lorna probably has a far better shot of showing up with a real role like Nebula or Gamora then what I expect them to do which is a more Loki like plotline for Magneto where they fight him in one film and are uneasy allies in the next one or two and then full partners in time.

    The MCU will really need to think well outside the normal comic book box with her if Magneto doesn’t run his own faction.
    Last edited by jmc247; 06-05-2020 at 10:45 AM.

  2. #857
    Incredible Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Posts
    590

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by salarta View Post
    I've heard the rumors are from sources that can't be trusted.

    That said, in a hypothetical scenario where it is true, I have two thoughts. The first is I would be glad that at the very least, Lorna isn't stuck around Havok. It's much better for her not to be forced into that position even if it means not being used in the MCU.

    But second, it would be extremely telling of the way people think at Marvel. That they decided Havok should show up first even though Lorna was created and got involved with the X-Men before him. And it would demonstrate yet again how Lorna gets exploited and misused to promote Havok but that history never, ever flips around to bring good things for Lorna.

    I could also see it happening simply because Marvel's made repeated efforts since 2017 to promote Havok while treating Lorna like she has no worth outside of promoting him and other male characters. Further, it would show just how deep bias runs at Marvel. They like to pretend past comic book fan interest in each character shows their viability for future use in comics. They've used that "logic" to justify why Lorna can't have anything done with her that gives her a spotlight. Yet by that same "logic," they would have to look at and adhere to what Fox did with each character in live action, which shows that there was way more consumer interest in Lorna on Gifted than in Havok on First Class.

    To make this clearer: I'm not saying anything against Havok's quality of character for himself or interest he could gain in an ideal scenario. I'm simply laying bare the double standards that would be in play if Marvel decided Havok should get this huge spotlight in the MCU while Lorna gets nothing. If a certain "logic" used to justify screwing Lorna over in comics somehow no longer applies in the MCU, then it's not logic. It's a double standard.



    It wasn't proven, it was claimed indirectly by Iceman. That's separate from intent though. I think the intent was "Lorna's now not Magneto's daughter," but I also think the actual original intent of the whole storyline was for Lorna to really be Magneto's daughter.

    One thing worth noting in all of this is that Steranko's previously said he worked with Arnold Drake on the story but he felt the collaboration undercut his creative vision and didn't meet his standards. Steranko has also regularly said the X-Men #50 cover is one of his top 5 fave covers he did. Notably, Steranko was still on the book for X-Men #51 but was no longer involved in the X-Men books when X-Men #52 - which claimed Lorna isn't Magneto's daughter - got published. Meaning that whatever decisions were made behind the scenes whether by Arnold Drake, Marvel editorial, etc, it's highly likely based on Steranko's interest and the timing that Steranko did not agree with the retcon that said Lorna wasn't Magneto's daughter after all.

    Given all this, I'd say there's more backing the notion Lorna was always intended to be Magneto's daughter and got retconned out of it than that not being his daughter was the plan all along. Plus, just from a narrative and creative standpoint, it seems very bizarre to spend three issues building up Lorna as this amazing heir of Magneto only to throw in this anticlimactic "lol she's not after all" twist. What point does it serve to put in this work of developing Lorna only to pull "a wizard did it (or in this case, robot)" on her at the last minute.
    Good to hear that the rumors are likely not true then.

    I'm glad Lorna and Alex are separated from each other but there's not much consolation in that if Lorna doesn't even exist in the MCU to be kept separate from Alex. And it's not just since 2017 that Marvel has been pushing Havok over her. It stems from as far back as 2012/2013 when the Uncanny Avengers debuted and Alex was given leadership of what was considered the flagship book of Marvel NOW! Even though Lorna could have been included alongside her sister at the time, or at least made some sort of guest appearance or cameo since plenty of other X-Men characters like Magneto, Cyclops, Jean, Storm, Psylocke, Beast, etc. made appearances in the Planet X arc.

    I agree that it seems like the plan was for Lorna to be introduced as Magneto's daughter. You don't include that revelation as the basis for the 50th issue of the series if the plan was all along for her parentage to be debunked. I'm just glad that one of the most iconic X-Men covers features Lorna in her debut, and it's especially heartening to hear that this was one of Steranko's favorite covers. It's strange actually how prominently Lorna is featured in some milestone Uncanny X-Men covers, between #50 and #250, yet she seems more like a footnote in the flagship book based on how sporadically she's used.

  3. #858
    Incredible Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Posts
    590

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AbnormallyNormal View Post
    As for the discussion earlier about Claremont changing Lorna's mutation I think his goal was to HELP her actually. He probably viewed her having the same mutation as Magneto as a problem in terms of her not feeling as unique then. So I don't know why people think it meant he "hated" her or wanted to make her suffer more or ignored forever. I mean maybe it was to make her as a character suffer but that doesn't necessarily mean he hates the character, he liked to make Storm suffer quite a bunch after all, and others.

    It's still an issue to be had, the fact Lorna's mutation is the same as Magneto's. Casual fans are always using it a reason to ignore her...
    Which is a shame since you can have so many characters who are super strong, but apparently only one energy manipulator of magnetism in the entire universe. It certainly hurt Lorna's exposure in video games since Magneto always automatically took a slot. In that sense, I can see why Claremont wanted to alter her powerset to make her more palatable but what I don't understand is why he resorted to making her another She-Hulk of sorts. Not only was the Marvel Universe filled up with super strong characters but the X-Universe itself had plenty between Colossus, Rogue, Juggernaut, Blob, Frenzy, Strong-Guy, Sunspot, Thunderbird/Warpath, sorta Beast, and even Captain Britain. Lorna being powered by negative emotions was the only thing I liked because it fit her codename and one could argue that control over magnetism was never meant to be her power since Lorna was introduced as a latent mutant whose only mutation was green hair. It was the machine that the Demi-Men used on her that unlocked magnetic powers that she had inherited from her father and likely they purposefully designed the machine so it would unlock only those abilities to render her her father's heir. Otherwise, much like Wanda, her genome likely allowed for other latent energy manipulator powers.

  4. #859
    Incredible Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Posts
    590

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jmc247 View Post
    I won't say its set in stone yet that Wanda and Pietro won't be his kids at least until I see how the WandaVision show and Strange film shake out. Its not a hard retcon if they want to do it, but if there are no strong signs they are going that route soon it probably won't happen.

    Lorna banking on her connection to Magneto alone to get a seat at the table is far from a sure fire bet no matter what they do with Wanda and Pietro. If they set Magneto up as the Thanos of the X-Men's first big phase that the team builds up to fighting over the course of many films then Lorna probably has a far better shot of showing up with a real role like Nebula or Gamora then what I expect them to do which is a more Loki like plotline for Magneto where they fight him in one film and are uneasy allies in the next one or two and then full partners in time.

    The MCU will really need to think well outside the normal comic book box with her if Magneto doesn’t run his own faction.
    Right now there hasn't been a lot of evidence to suggest that Pietro will be back in the MCU, let alone back permanently since even if he does return, it might just be for Wanda/Vision. And while Wanda has been promised a leading role in the next few phases, those don't include the X-Men as of now and it's very likely that by the time that Magneto and mutants are introduced, Wanda's character might be retired then, depending on how long it actually does take for the X-Men's debut. One of the things I've heard is that the MCU wants a more sympathetic portrayal of Magneto so introducing a child of his would go a long way to do that, much like Gamora and Nebula did for Thanos like you said. If Pietro and Wanda are completely out of the picture, that really just leaves Lorna.

    I would absolutely love to see Lorna in a role similar to what Gamora and Nebula had, although hopefully without being killed off (and then brought back from an alternate timeline).

  5. #860

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by whitecrown View Post
    Good to hear that the rumors are likely not true then.

    I'm glad Lorna and Alex are separated from each other but there's not much consolation in that if Lorna doesn't even exist in the MCU to be kept separate from Alex. And it's not just since 2017 that Marvel has been pushing Havok over her. It stems from as far back as 2012/2013 when the Uncanny Avengers debuted and Alex was given leadership of what was considered the flagship book of Marvel NOW! Even though Lorna could have been included alongside her sister at the time, or at least made some sort of guest appearance or cameo since plenty of other X-Men characters like Magneto, Cyclops, Jean, Storm, Psylocke, Beast, etc. made appearances in the Planet X arc.
    Honestly, it goes back even farther than that. One of the few Marvel things I saw before I found out Lorna existed was X-Men Evolution. That show brought Havok on for occasional appearances, while Lorna never appeared at all. And frankly, it's good she wasn't on it given how she would've been treated. But it doesn't change that Havok being on things never leads to Lorna being given opportunities by extension. It always means he gets used and she's left behind, only coming up of Marvel thinks they need exploit her to promote him.

    Sort of like how DC loves to exploit Harley Quinn to promote Joker. And at least in that case, Harley Quinn actually was created to be a henchwoman for Joker, whereas Lorna was made before Havok but Marvel acts like she was made to be his girlfriend.

    Historically in other media, there appears to be an awareness that the way Marvel loves treating Lorna whenever Havok's around her is horrible for both characters, so they're used separately. Marvel can't afford the bad publicity that would come from giving that kind of treatment such a huge platform. The comics side of Marvel prizes their nostalgia for horrible past work over the potential for future good work though, so they keep trying to reinforce the pairing instead of doing good work with the two separately and then bringing them back together at a later date.

    There's also Havok going off to Mutant X while Lorna was written as locking herself in an apartment obsessing over old clothes he wore like it's her fetish.
    I can also be reached on Twitter and WordPress.

    Polaris 50th anniversary minicomic written by me and drawn by Mlad, now complete!

    Gallery of Polaris commissions (without NSFW or minicomics)

  6. #861
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    8,668

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by whitecrown View Post
    Which is a shame since you can have so many characters who are super strong, but apparently only one energy manipulator of magnetism in the entire universe. It certainly hurt Lorna's exposure in video games since Magneto always automatically took a slot. In that sense, I can see why Claremont wanted to alter her powerset to make her more palatable but what I don't understand is why he resorted to making her another She-Hulk of sorts. Not only was the Marvel Universe filled up with super strong characters but the X-Universe itself had plenty between Colossus, Rogue, Juggernaut, Blob, Frenzy, Strong-Guy, Sunspot, Thunderbird/Warpath, sorta Beast, and even Captain Britain. Lorna being powered by negative emotions was the only thing I liked because it fit her codename and one could argue that control over magnetism was never meant to be her power since Lorna was introduced as a latent mutant whose only mutation was green hair. It was the machine that the Demi-Men used on her that unlocked magnetic powers that she had inherited from her father and likely they purposefully designed the machine so it would unlock only those abilities to render her her father's heir. Otherwise, much like Wanda, her genome likely allowed for other latent energy manipulator powers.
    A few things. I heard years ago editorial denied Claremont the use of She Hulk so he decided to turn Lorna into such a character and it wasn't much deeper then that. The problem when it comes to online genre fans is the concept of hero worshipping creators rather then accepting that writers like anyone else have good and bad ideas. Most of the best ideas for Lorna came from runs that aren't rated by comic fans as iconic.

    Game makers really don't care about the power duplication nonsense otherwise they wouldn't have a dozen brawlers, a half dozen Wolverines, a gaggle of telekinetics. I talked to a game maker a long time ago for Marvel Heroes MMO and Marvel wouldn't pay for a Polaris playable as they aren't promoting her, also she was perceived as not being a popular X-Man so one female employee was out of her own time and money creating a figure, but never got to it.

    She would get into more games if it was more accepted that she like father, Emma or even Jean/DP is a character that works as a bad assed protagonist or antagonist. The last game to do that was a Marvel online card game around 6-7 years ago and she had some strong art and was a boss level in it.
    Last edited by jmc247; 06-06-2020 at 07:46 AM.

  7. #862
    Incredible Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Posts
    590

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by salarta View Post
    Honestly, it goes back even farther than that. One of the few Marvel things I saw before I found out Lorna existed was X-Men Evolution. That show brought Havok on for occasional appearances, while Lorna never appeared at all. And frankly, it's good she wasn't on it given how she would've been treated. But it doesn't change that Havok being on things never leads to Lorna being given opportunities by extension. It always means he gets used and she's left behind, only coming up of Marvel thinks they need exploit her to promote him.

    Sort of like how DC loves to exploit Harley Quinn to promote Joker. And at least in that case, Harley Quinn actually was created to be a henchwoman for Joker, whereas Lorna was made before Havok but Marvel acts like she was made to be his girlfriend.

    Historically in other media, there appears to be an awareness that the way Marvel loves treating Lorna whenever Havok's around her is horrible for both characters, so they're used separately. Marvel can't afford the bad publicity that would come from giving that kind of treatment such a huge platform. The comics side of Marvel prizes their nostalgia for horrible past work over the potential for future good work though, so they keep trying to reinforce the pairing instead of doing good work with the two separately and then bringing them back together at a later date.

    There's also Havok going off to Mutant X while Lorna was written as locking herself in an apartment obsessing over old clothes he wore like it's her fetish.
    Marvel has always had an obsession with the Summers-Grey bloodline so that's honestly what introduces Havok a lot in these TV shows and spinoff materials because they want to showcase Cyclops' family. And unfortunately, they already introduced Magneto's daughter in the form of Wanda midway through X-Men Evolution so they probably felt that introducing yet another daughter might have been overkill. That's the same reason I think that if the reports of that MCU X-Men film are true that feature Havok, he's only being included because they want to do something with the Summers-Grey bloodline and that's easier to establish if there's more than one Summers character. And knowing Marvel, more than two female characters on one team would be too much for them considering they only recently upgraded from one female character per team to two and we know that they wouldn't kick out Storm or Jean. However, there was no Magneto mention in that report so it's not impossible that Lorna might be part of his Brotherhood and thus still a part of the film even if she's not an X-Man.

    What I always find so revealing is when Havok and Polaris' names are included pertaining to the history of the X-Men and Havok's name will be put first as if he joined the team before Polaris did. That just shows right then and there who they think is the most important X-Men addition to the O5 but before the Giant-Size X-Men team. And it probably doesn't help that in Claremont's 17-year run, Lorna never rejoined the team, excluding the Muir Island X-Men whereas Havok actually was part of the popular Outback X-Men period so he's already more of an X-Man than Lorna is for fans of the classic X-Men. Not to mention, Havok only got brainwashed once whereas it happened twice with Polaris in this run.

    It's a real shame that when Havok was shunted off to Mutant X, that nobody did more with Lorna. This was the chance to really give her her own central identity and maybe make her rejoin the team. Instead she was basically kept on Genosha and while that did help re-establish her ties with Magneto, much more could have been done instead of that. I think she made an appearance in the Black Sun series but considering that this was an era devoid of Summers brothers (with both Scott and Alex gone), they could certainly have taken advantage of that to promote Lorna like they did with Jean. I think it's also pretty telling how quickly Alex and especially Scott were brought back, whereas Jean was killed off for more than a decade and Lorna was in character limbo for years.

  8. #863
    Incredible Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Posts
    590

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jmc247 View Post
    A few things. I heard years ago editorial denied Claremont the use of She Hulk so he decided to turn Lorna into such a character and it wasn't much deeper then that. The problem when it comes to online genre fans is the concept of hero worshipping creators rather then accepting that writers like anyone else have good and bad ideas. Most of the best ideas for Lorna came from runs that aren't rated by comic fans as iconic.

    Game makers really don't care about the power duplication nonsense otherwise they wouldn't have a dozen brawlers, a half dozen Wolverines, a gaggle of telekinetics. I talked to a game maker a long time ago for Marvel Heroes MMO and Marvel wouldn't pay for a Polaris playable as they aren't promoting her, also she was perceived as not being a popular X-Man so one female employee was out of her own time and money creating a figure, but never got to it.

    She would get into more games if it was more accepted that she like father, Emma or even Jean/DP is a character that works as a bad assed protagonist or antagonist. The last game to do that was a Marvel online card game around 6-7 years ago and she had some strong art and was a boss level in it.
    I didn't know that Claremont wanted to use She-Hulk. I wonder if John Byrne prevented Claremont from getting his hands on her because I know he has issues with Claremont "ruining" characters he loves. That reminds me of how John Byrne at one point was supposed to get the first X-Men spinoff book featuring the old guard characters like Warren, Bobby, Lorna, and Alex so I can't help but think if that had occurred, Lorna would have a much higher profile these days. And sadly, even when Byrne did get around to using her in X-Men: The Hidden Years, that book was prematurely cancelled.

    That's true that when it comes to these games, they have no issue with balancing out Hulk and Thing with She-Hulk and Colossus and there's only so much unique powers you can give these brawler type characters. There's a lot more creative ways to make Magneto feel different from Polaris but I just assumed that Polaris was snubbed because Magneto always was playable over her. From what I remember of Lorna in video games, she had that brief cameo in XMLII (even though she was central to the storyline), she appears in Magneto's ending in Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3, she was playable in Lego Marvel Superheroes, and she was playable in the X-Men: Days of Future Past app game. I have heard rumors that she's going to be added to Marvel Super War, an app game only available in Asia right now, and there hasn't been any word of Havok joining. Considering the fact that Pixie of all characters is playable in this game, I'm glad that Lorna will get her due as well.

    Meanwhile, Havok got into Avengers Alliance, X-Men: Next Dimension, Marvel Superhero Squad Online, Contest of Champions, and was a major NPC in X-Men Legends where he was playable in the Danger Room. And then he kept his NPC role in the second X-Men Legends game. He also was a boss in Marvel Ultimate Alliance 2.

  9. #864
    Mighty Member houndsofluv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    1,399

    Default

    I wonder if Byrne's "West Coast X-Men" would have done much for her exposure..Honestly his idea sounds very milquetoast and I'm glad we got New Mutants instead. I haven't read much Hidden Years but maybe I should check it out. Is it 616?

  10. #865
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    8,668

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by whitecrown View Post
    I didn't know that Claremont wanted to use She-Hulk. I wonder if John Byrne prevented Claremont from getting his hands on her because I know he has issues with Claremont "ruining" characters he loves. That reminds me of how John Byrne at one point was supposed to get the first X-Men spinoff book featuring the old guard characters like Warren, Bobby, Lorna, and Alex so I can't help but think if that had occurred, Lorna would have a much higher profile these days. And sadly, even when Byrne did get around to using her in X-Men: The Hidden Years, that book was prematurely cancelled.
    West Coast would have certainly raised her profile in a hot time for the comics, but in a lot of ways Hidden Years which you brought up showed the problem Lorna interacting with the 05 in the post All New X-Men era (even though the comics was supposed to be in-between the eras). She really didn't have relationships in Hidden Years outside Bobby and Havok love triangle drama because Byrne couldn't figure out a new way to interject her character into the drama of the X-Men and make her relevant.

    That's true that when it comes to these games, they have no issue with balancing out Hulk and Thing with She-Hulk and Colossus and there's only so much unique powers you can give these brawler type characters. There's a lot more creative ways to make Magneto feel different from Polaris but I just assumed that Polaris was snubbed because Magneto always was playable over her. From what I remember of Lorna in video games, she had that brief cameo in XMLII (even though she was central to the storyline), she appears in Magneto's ending in Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3, she was playable in Lego Marvel Superheroes, and she was playable in the X-Men: Days of Future Past app game. I have heard rumors that she's going to be added to Marvel Super War, an app game only available in Asia right now, and there hasn't been any word of Havok joining. Considering the fact that Pixie of all characters is playable in this game, I'm glad that Lorna will get her due as well.

    Meanwhile, Havok got into Avengers Alliance, X-Men: Next Dimension, Marvel Superhero Squad Online, Contest of Champions, and was a major NPC in X-Men Legends where he was playable in the Danger Room. And then he kept his NPC role in the second X-Men Legends game. He also was a boss in Marvel Ultimate Alliance 2.
    Hopefully the rumors are right about Marvel Super War. Though I haven't heard much about the game. China has a legion of Polaris fans due to The Gifted as in millions of them and they social networked very well to build up and promote their fan base well.

    Lorna's issues for games are one of her relevancy to current Marvel synergy and the characters perceived popularity.
    Last edited by jmc247; 06-06-2020 at 09:44 PM.

  11. #866
    Incredible Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Posts
    590

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by houndsofluv View Post
    I wonder if Byrne's "West Coast X-Men" would have done much for her exposure..Honestly his idea sounds very milquetoast and I'm glad we got New Mutants instead. I haven't read much Hidden Years but maybe I should check it out. Is it 616?
    It's supposed to be 616 but it's pretty much never been recognized by other writers as canon since then. And people didn't like certain elements like the O5 meeting Storm before Giant-Size X-Men or Jean first becoming Phoenix only for everyone to forget about the incident. I haven't read much of it either but I want to say that Lorna was at least regularly included. I remember the common complaint was that the X-Men were all stuck in the Savage Land for a lot of the series and that included Lorna being stranded there with Havok and Iceman. And I think Lorna briefly took the codename Magnetrix in this series.

  12. #867
    Incredible Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Posts
    590

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jmc247 View Post
    West Coast would have certainly raised her profile in a hot time for the comics, but in a lot of ways Hidden Years which you brought up showed the problem Lorna interacting with the 05 in the post All New X-Men era (even though the comics was supposed to be in-between the eras). She really didn't have relationships in Hidden Years outside Bobby and Havok love triangle drama because Byrne couldn't figure out a new way to interject her character into the drama of the X-Men and make her relevant.



    Hopefully the rumors are right about Marvel Super War. Though I haven't heard much about the game. China has a legion of Polaris fans due to The Gifted as in millions of them and they social networked very well to build up and promote their fan base well.

    Lorna's issues for games are one of her relevancy to current Marvel synergy and the characters perceived popularity.
    Even the Lorna/Bobby relationship is something I feel like was pretty much ignored for decades until the 2000s. I can't recall Bobby and Lorna interacting with each other meaningfully at all in either the Claremont period or even the 90s. For example, when Storm talks about killing Lorna in Inferno, Bobby doesn't say or do anything to suggest that he even knows Lorna. Nor do I remember Bobby ever talking about what she meant to him in Champions, New Defenders, or X-Factor. It wasn't until Black Sun that they were together and then Chuck Austen of all people who remembered that Lorna had close relationships with Jean and Bobby.

    At the very least though if the West Coast X-Men book had taken off and been a more public version of the team (like X-Factor was after Fall of the Mutants), Lorna may have had the chance to interact with other superhero teams like the Fantastic Four and the Avengers. But I do think it's a real shame that out of all the writers who have worked on the X-Men since Brubaker's Rise and Fall of the Shi'ar Empire run, not one of them has been interested in utilizing Lorna in anything. One would think there's somebody out there who was enamoured with that Steranko cover and would have liked to work on something with her.

    Considering how much Disney/Marvel likes their movies to cater to China, I wonder if that may inspire them to work in Lorna then. It's interesting that in the Scarlet Witch thread, the general assumption is that Lorna will be introduced in the MCU and have a fairly sizable role as Magneto's daughter, although a lot of that may also be because most of her fans don't want Wanda to be saddled in that role or have anything to do with the X-Men in the MCU.

  13. #868
    Mighty Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    1,650

    Default

    I think the MCU will try to move in a whole new direction with the X-men while still keeping the spirit of the story, they will do something different to what Fox did mainly because they want the story to reflect and be different to Fox´s work with the mutants so I don´t expect to see the X-men living in the mansion from the get go, we don´t even know if there are already mutants on the MCU appart from being called miracles, so my guess is that the MCU will try first to establish the origin of the mutants on the MCU,what makes them so diffeerent to the Avengers, Doc Strange, Iron Man and FF and what will be their story on the MCU before they go into the whole Magneto´s family story.

    There are rumors the first mutants will be seen on different movies and series before joining for a story, Rogue may be with Captain Marvel, Madripoor on the Falcon and the Winter soldier story, Omega Red on Black Widow´s movie, Proffesor X in a cameo with Reed Richards and Dr. Strange on an Iluminati teaser, Storm and Namor on Black Panther´s movie, Wanda and Pietro will be on the WandaVision series etc.

    It´s been said Feige wants to keep Magneto out of most main stories given he was overused as a villain and antagonist on the fox series which is understable, the only confirmed thing for him is that Kevin Feige wanted to use him for a flasback scene with child magneto and Cap America similar to the one on X-men evolution and that he wanted him to dissasemble a weapon at one time on the movies, beyond that there are rumors he will probably begin as a villain and then fight agaist Dr Doom during a possible Secret War movie. So imo all this seems like right now the MCU will not give much thought to a Magneto´s family kind of story.

    The good thing for Lorna is that she already has a following from the Gifted series and that she was not overused the way Magneto was, so the MCU will probably include her sooner rather than later, maybe as a freedom fighter herself or as a friend of Jean and the X-men on the X-men movie.
    Last edited by Lucyinthesky; 06-06-2020 at 10:11 PM.
    "The time for subtlety is passing. Now is the time for change." [New Mutants (Vol. 1) #38]

  14. #869
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    8,668

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by whitecrown View Post
    Even the Lorna/Bobby relationship is something I feel like was pretty much ignored for decades until the 2000s. I can't recall Bobby and Lorna interacting with each other meaningfully at all in either the Claremont period or even the 90s. For example, when Storm talks about killing Lorna in Inferno, Bobby doesn't say or do anything to suggest that he even knows Lorna. Nor do I remember Bobby ever talking about what she meant to him in Champions, New Defenders, or X-Factor.
    Claremont's first run didn't look back much for ideas (outside of one early 70s Hulk story where she is in the desert with Havok) on what to do with her and as a consequence other writers after did not think much about such things until her Genosha arc which Claremont did get involved in. I sort of see that arc as the beginning of modern Lorna and the rebirth of her original themes. It was made possible by the end of 90s X-Factor, Havok leaving for the Mutant X universe, and Magneto having a country. The writers of her Genosha arc very much had her 60s story in mind and some of the same dynamics were almost transposed from it.

    It wasn't until Black Sun that they were together and then Chuck Austen of all people who remembered that Lorna had close relationships with Jean and Bobby.
    Austen's original plan was very simple. Write Lorna like early 90s X-Factor, have a love triangle, marry her off to Havok and dump her in limbo. Where Lorna was between Eve of Destruction when she was still living on Genosha and Morrison dropped the hammer on the island was unknown. Morrison decided in 2002 to have her be one of the survivors in a really powerful and emotional story. That left Austen feeling he should revamp his entire plan for the character. As part of that he did a lot more research then your typical writer of Lorna's runs on her early relationships and even some obscure activities like archaeology.

    The real success of the era wasn't even restoring her parentage (though that certainly mattered) as much as it was giving her a semblance of a personality, core motivation and worldview. Without the core themes to go along with her who donated their genetic material to make her really doesn't matter as it doesn't spice up her relationships or character drama without it being built into the character.

    Scott since Decimation has felt much more heir to Magneto’s legacy then Lorna.

    At the very least though if the West Coast X-Men book had taken off and been a more public version of the team (like X-Factor was after Fall of the Mutants), Lorna may have had the chance to interact with other superhero teams like the Fantastic Four and the Avengers. But I do think it's a real shame that out of all the writers who have worked on the X-Men since Brubaker's Rise and Fall of the Shi'ar Empire run, not one of them has been interested in utilizing Lorna in anything. One would think there's somebody out there who was enamoured with that Steranko cover and would have liked to work on something with her.
    You are correct that X-Men West Coast would have raised her profile and odds of getting on one of the two core 90s X-Men teams.

    In terms of Lorna after Decimation she lost any semblance of a goal, direction, overarching theme, etc. Lorna should have had a lot to do in the decade of mutant extinction stories, but she was wholly divorced from all of that. I think uninspired writing that couldn’t see a way for Lorna to fit in with Magneto back to being an X-Men mainstay and the revolutionary Scott push was to blame.

    Considering how much Disney/Marvel likes their movies to cater to China, I wonder if that may inspire them to work in Lorna then. It's interesting that in the Scarlet Witch thread, the general assumption is that Lorna will be introduced in the MCU and have a fairly sizable role as Magneto's daughter, although a lot of that may also be because most of her fans don't want Wanda to be saddled in that role or have anything to do with the X-Men in the MCU.
    I don't think we can assume anything at this point about what Disney/Marvel will do. I do think watching the Marvel/Disney promotion and merch over the next few years will tell a good story at least on their thinking in terms of their overarching role if any for the character.

    My general view is if they bench Magneto for a few films it’s probably good for Lorna as they can introduce her to segway into eventually introducing him. If they make him into the big boss of a full phase with his own mutant army or nation behind him it probably helps Lorna as it did Gamora and Nebula with how big they made their father.

    If they go a similar role to the Fox films from First Class to Dark Phoenix for Magneto it’s a problem for Lorna as she really doesn’t have much space to work with unless they think well outside the comic book box for the character.
    Last edited by jmc247; 06-07-2020 at 08:13 AM.

  15. #870

    Default

    First, some new fanart.



    by unknownrllan



    by Minocitaarts


    Second, some commentary. I haven't passed any of this by the Polaris Committee (TM), and I may respond to prior posts at some point later, but I'm writing this purely off thoughts I have right now.

    There's been discussion about what kind of role Lorna could have within the X-Men setup, based on the various characters that exist and what roles Marvel gives them at any given time. We've discussed what I'm about to say to some extent before, but I feel like it hasn't really been fully weighed and considered.

    A LOT of people who like Lorna (fans or casual) like her associated with punk and heavy metal themes and aesthetics. We've seen quite a bit of fanart and cosplay fitting this idea. Whether it's Lorna wearing spiked chokers or rocker jackets with slogans, piercings and tattoos all over, or giving the middle finger, there's been a trend of fan imagery depicting her with a lot of this attitude. There might have been a bit here and there in the past, but it's especially picked up since Emma Dumont's depiction of Lorna on Gifted that had more of this style to her.

    The "punk and heavy metal" vibe regularly comes with a sense of rebellion. Raging against the machine (perhaps literally, in Lorna's case), questioning systems, challenging authority.

    In my opinion, this is exactly the role Lorna can take. Regardless of what anyone else is doing. And I think it fits the core concept of her from way back when she was introduced. She was more progressive than Jean at that time as far as female character portrayal. Before the parentage retcon happened, Lorna was also set to be "rebellious" in the sense of rebelling against her father toward the side of good, yet with a bit of "devil" to her implied (let's not forget the horns hand gesture she had when revealed in costume). But back then, all the punk and heavy metal subculture we see today hadn't arrived yet, so Lorna as a character couldn't seize upon them for her character development. By the time that subculture showed up, attitude with Marvel had moved away from her potential and more toward how she could be used to benefit other characters.

    That brings us to today. A lot of people perceive the concept of rebellion as one of "rebellious youth," and further, that "rebellious youth" must be in their teens. This perception would supposedly age Lorna out... BUT. This isn't really true. You don't have to be young to be a rebellious figure. In particular, there's a lot of take for this among millennial ages, which are themselves older than the age Marvel currently considers these characters (as Marvel considers these characters to be in their mid-20s).

    However, what we COULD do with her age and history is present her as a "rebellious mentor/icon." Roll up "rogue princess" with rebellion and you have a powerful figure who could use her experiences and cultural status to push for change.

    ... Now, this is where we get to Krakoa. Because a lot of people are framing their ideas of what Lorna can be entirely on what Marvel's currently doing instead of generally. To which, I raise these two hypotheticals.

    1. What if Lorna, being rebellious, challenges the system of Krakoa for injustices that others aren't willing to challenge?
    2. What if Lorna, being rebellious, challenges the Krakoan idea of self-isolation and insists mutant representation not being as represented in other countries as pre-Krakoa isn't real change?


    #2 gets into thoughts of whether or not Lorna supports the idea of mutant island nations, and I'm not going to get into arguments about that right now, cause that's not really relevant. What I'm saying with #2 isn't "Lorna must be opposed to Krakoa." I'm saying that in hypothetical #2, Lorna may feel Krakoa alone isn't sufficient for mutants. Just because women have equal rights in the United States (which to be honest isn't really true, but still) doesn't mean they can leave mutant treatment or mutant attitudes in other countries at sanctions, or at stepping in only when things are real bad. At its roots, the "rebellion" part of heavy metal and punk is making people uncomfortable in the work to bring positive change. Perhaps Lorna would want a world where Krakoa isn't perceived as needed to protect most mutants. Perhaps she would put herself out there as such a figure demanding progress in other countries in a direct way that Krakoa as a larger entity can't.

    Frankly, I still don't really support HoX/PoX/DoX. So the above comments are more to detail what's possible for a "rebellious" Lorna in that setting for those people who do support HoX/PoX/DoX.

    Plus, hypothetically, Lorna as a rebel figure could give Marvel an "out" for why they never have her leading teams. Because X-Men teams up til now haven't really been "rebel" style. New Mutants may have been the closest thing, but it's not quite what I'm thinking of here. I'm certainly open to correction if I'm wrong though.

    Wrapping up: as far as I'm aware, no characters in Marvel's existing framework fits this concept very well. You may be able to look at particular characters who had a "phase" or "the look" at one time or another, but that's entirely different from a character actually owning it and cutting new paths forward. I think "heavy metal or punk rebel figure" is Lorna's niche. And I think she already has both fandom perception and character history to pull it off.

    Besides, how can't you imagine the Mistress of Magnetism as a heavy metal rebel queen rocking out? :P
    Last edited by salarta; 06-07-2020 at 09:15 AM.
    I can also be reached on Twitter and WordPress.

    Polaris 50th anniversary minicomic written by me and drawn by Mlad, now complete!

    Gallery of Polaris commissions (without NSFW or minicomics)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •