Lorna Dane: Polaris Appreciation 2020

[Magnetic]

I firmly believe this title is ripe for earliest cancellation less than 15 issue. However - I'm really excited to see what Leah does now!! From what I gather Lorna will bring the next Summers baby into the world.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

Well if that happens I'm guessing that it'll be far more likely done in one of Sinister's test tubes or something of that nature than Lorna actually carrying a child herself...kind of like Sinister's chimera's in a sense...

[salarta]

I know that she talked to one person that is a huge Havok fan, and also a huge shipper havok/polaris. I know she likes Polaris, but I don't think she is on the same level as Salarta.
Maybe Leah reached someone that she already knew and that liked Polaris. But I don't think this was a good idea.
You have to read it yourself to get a idea on your own

Although I appreciate the high view of me as a Lorna fan, I disagree with it meaning I'm on a "different level" from other fans. I'm committed, I care deeply, but I think all fans' views are equal if their views are sincerely intended for good of the character. Which goes back to why this was a problem for me - talking only to a couple friends, one of which is a Havok x Polaris fan, acts like Havok is more important than literally anything else about her that people who aren't Havok x Polaris fans care about.

And I don't want to lie. I'd still be complaining even if Leah had talked to a "counterbalance" by virtue of all the BS Marvel's pulled on Lorna for the past 5 years (as well as historically for decades) concerning Havok. But at least talking to people who think differently would have left the door open to "I'm trying to take in everything about her history." Whereas this just looks to me like Leah only cares about whatever she can learn from a friend and fan of the pairing that might help to justify and excuse a repressive status quo that's been horribly toxic for Lorna throughout most of her history.

I had several other things I was going to say here too. I'm opting to omit them this time.

I firmly believe this title is ripe for earliest cancellation less than 15 issue. However - I'm really excited to see what Leah does now!! From what I gather Lorna will bring the next Summers baby into the world.

I wouldn't be surprised. My opinion of Marvel is low now. About as low as it's been of Squeenix since 3rd Birthday - and I can't think of a single bad thing Squeenix could do with their IPs that would surprise me anymore.

Marvel knows Lorna having a child - regardless of the father - right now would be a mistake. They haven't acknowledged her history or explored her character in any real way since 2015. Especially during HoX/PoX/DoX, they haven't done anything with her that couldn't have been done with any other character. Doing such a story right with her would have required Marvel to do a hell of a lot better by her. Without that, she's just an incubator.

And all of the above is why I can definitely see Marvel doing it to her. They already don't see her as a character. Makes no difference if the object they see her as is a trophy for men to fight over and display, or an incubator to carry their spawn. Only real question is if she'd be outfitted with the aforementioned Havok chastity belt to ensure he's the father after 50 years of Lorna never getting to have relationships with anyone that isn't him.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

Well I'm not sure that it'd be so great if she had a kid with some random guy that then never showed up again or anything like that, and who knows if they did go the kid route it could be a way for Lorna to explore what she wants the world to be, her current views on things, and how having a child and deciding to be a different parent than her father was to her could do some of that...maybe changing her views, showing what kind of world she'd want her kid to live in and such...perhaps it would be different than Magneto's version...

I don't know if Marvel cares enough about Lorna right now one way of the other about a kid, and for the record if Alex hadn't been Scott's brother he wouldn't have probably even shown up yet in this current status quo outside of standing around in the background or something like that, and I'm not expecting big things from his next book either...he'll be the fall guy when that team goes rogue or whatever...

[salarta]

The thread's been dead for almost a week, so I'm going to post two things.

First, I made a post for a new Polaris "soundtrack." The last time I tried to do this, in 2017, I was focused on connecting songs to character history and relationships. This time is much simpler. I'm just using songs I know and like that I think pair with what I see as the core of who Lorna is.

Here's a song for sample sake (warning: language).




Second, I think now's an appropriate time to re-post my Polaris Mistreatment Bingo card in preparation for X-Factor and anything else Marvel tries to do to Lorna.

[Jumpyshark]

https://twitter.com/david_baldeon/st...67628408045568

It shouldn't surprise me any more (and I credit the talent of the amazing writers I have the privilege to work with) but I always, always, ALWAYS find myself falling in love with at least one character of every book I draw.

Fo X-Factor, it’s Lorna and Jean-Paul

[spirit2011]

The thread's been dead for almost a week, so I'm going to post two things.

First, I made a post for a new Polaris "soundtrack." The last time I tried to do this, in 2017, I was focused on connecting songs to character history and relationships. This time is much simpler. I'm just using songs I know and like that I think pair with what I see as the core of who Lorna is.

Here's a song for sample sake (warning: language).




Second, I think now's an appropriate time to re-post my Polaris Mistreatment Bingo card in preparation for X-Factor and anything else Marvel tries to do to Lorna.

Really laughing on this

Alex
L
e
x

[houndsofluv]

https://twitter.com/david_baldeon/st...67628408045568

From the cover alone I adore his Lorna. I hope he gets to give her a redesign

[JB]

Second, I think now's an appropriate time to re-post my Polaris Mistreatment Bingo card in preparation for X-Factor and anything else Marvel tries to do to Lorna.

Awww! The middle image of her made me actually "aww".

Maddie's back and in the same book as Alex so hopefully she fully occupies his time.

[Soulsword323]

From the cover alone I adore his Lorna. I hope he gets to give her a redesign

Leah's been doing a Q&A on her Twitter, and I believe a couple of people asked about the team getting new looks. She said it was spoiler territory, and I'm hoping that means that they will, so fingers crossed Polaris finally gets the redesign she deserves.

[salarta]

One of their tweets that has not been talked about on here.



I'm relatively sure that Leah answering this one is because it provides plausible deniability ("I was really talking about Dazzler") while stoking sentiments she knows lead to a lot of heated talk. As I've said many times before, people that work for Marvel are hired there because they fit Marvel's corporate culture. Part of that culture is the attitude previously espoused by Brevoort that "controversy" (to use a softer term for it) is somehow beneficial for sales regardless of cause.

I've also recently found information that reaffirms both my views of X-Factor/Dawn of X, and remarks I made a while back about the way all of this functions.

As for looks, we have only to wait and see what metal that's immune to magnets they use for the Havok chastity belt.

Really laughing on this

Alex
L
e
x

Everyone knows that independent, well-treated female characters constantly cry and sob a man's name. It's the Marvel way.

[RachelGrey]

I think it's telling that Alex and Lorna are on completely different books. Leah has already hinted that X-Factor will be crossing over with the Marauders, probably because the Marauders transport them to different places for their investigations.

Anyway, I actually don't think Alex and Lorna are getting back together. Just because a fan likes Alex and Lorna as a couple, doesn't mean that she doesn't also like the characters separately. Since Madelyne is going to be appearing in Hellions it's very possible that Alex and Madelyne are going to end up together in some way, especially if Madelyne doesn't come back as an outright villain.

Leah handles female characters quite well and as a Rachel fan I am more than happy to trust that she is going to do Rachel justice. I actually kind of hope that Leah revisits the friendship between Lorna and Rachel from Realm of Kings and perhaps that is the reason that they are both joining X-Factor is because they want to work together again.

I know I got down in the dumps about Rachel after X-Men 1 and 2, I thought she was done in Dawn of X and I wouldn't see her again. But then the announcement that she is on a team with Lorna, and some other characters that I like, like Jean Paul for instance, and even Fred who from the hints is going to be working at their base to help manage mutants disappearances and deaths that need to be investigated for confirmation of life (or death)!

I don't think you have to worry about Alex and Lorna getting back together in the next year. I can't say what will happen 2 or 3 years for now, but I think Lorna and Alex are going their separate ways for a while.

This even goes back to other relationships that seem to have been abandoned in Dawn of X, Warren and Betsy are not getting together, and Betsy may end up dating a man or a woman in upcoming stories.

[salarta]

I think it's telling that Alex and Lorna are on completely different books. Leah has already hinted that X-Factor will be crossing over with the Marauders, probably because the Marauders transport them to different places for their investigations.

Anyway, I actually don't think Alex and Lorna are getting back together. Just because a fan likes Alex and Lorna as a couple, doesn't mean that she doesn't also like the characters separately. Since Madelyne is going to be appearing in Hellions it's very possible that Alex and Madelyne are going to end up together in some way, especially if Madelyne doesn't come back as an outright villain.

This is one of those loopholes I talked about. Maybe Leah isn't writing Havok as a part of her book, but she'll tee Lorna up for being written with him on another book via crossover. Part of writing points A and B for a character is writing how they get from A to B. Meaning any move where a key intentional goal is moving Lorna closer to B, is effectively no different than if they had gone all the way. Person still gets blame for arson if they didn't cause the fire, but intentionally left the materials needed for arson out for that purpose.

I'm using the word intentional here, well, intentionally. It's different if someone has a different goal and someone else misuses their work.

But the arson analogy here also retains the point I made earlier of not leaving materials out when you know arsonists come around regularly trying to burn the house down. Marvel's had a lot of incidents where Lorna is treated horribly by Marvel concerning Havok. Even in the most optimistic case of "that grilling equipment is out for one of the best cookouts in the history of ever," that's just inviting arsonists to drop by the next day to commit arson. Things need to be done to dissuade that arson in the first place - including not having the equipment out for so long that the arsonists give up.

As far as being a fan of Polaris and Havok, it's true that someone can be a fan of them separately, not just as a couple. But you have to question that composition. How it hashes out. What's considered more important.

Historically, Marvel throws away core elements of Lorna every time they force Havok on her. In the 60s/70s, Lorna lost her friendship with Jean, love interest dynamics with Iceman, and status as second X-woman being acknowledged and respected. In the late 00s, Lorna lost any acknowledgment whatsoever that she survived Genosha and experienced trauma from it. There's a reason for this. Every time, Marvel said "Lorna being Havok's girlfriend is more important." They decided that with limited panel time, limited appearances, Lorna needs to devote most if not all of her time to Havok - and anything not feeding that goal should be cut.

So let's cycle back. Someone can be a fan of both the couple and the characters individually. But what are their priorities? If Marvel says "we can only use Polaris once this year," is their priority for Marvel to acknowledge Genosha for the first time in 15 years? Is it to see her finally get to interact with Jean in a meaningful capacity for the first time since the late 60s? Or is it to see Marvel push the Havok x Polaris pairing?

Also, let's be honest, when someone is a fan of a pairing, you have to ask which character in the pairing they're more a fan of. I talk quite often about how much I want to see Polaris and Scarlet Witch interact as sisters, but I don't hide the fact that I'm way more of a Lorna fan than a Wanda fan. Obviously I want both to be treated well, but as a Lorna fan I'm inherently going to care more about how she's treated in their dynamic despite my best attempts at being good to Wanda too. That's how bias works. Even with conscious efforts to do better, you'll still have trouble.

Leah handles female characters quite well and as a Rachel fan I am more than happy to trust that she is going to do Rachel justice. I actually kind of hope that Leah revisits the friendship between Lorna and Rachel from Realm of Kings and perhaps that is the reason that they are both joining X-Factor is because they want to work together again.

I don't think you have to worry about Alex and Lorna getting back together in the next year. I can't say what will happen 2 or 3 years for now, but I think Lorna and Alex are going their separate ways for a while.

This even goes back to other relationships that seem to have been abandoned in Dawn of X, Warren and Betsy are not getting together, and Betsy may end up dating a man or a woman in upcoming stories.

We'll see if she revisits space time, and what that looks like if she does. I think it's telling that of everything Leah could have said in the press release, she decided to talk about talking to a Havok x Polaris fan, but didn't mention getting to build more of a friendship between Lorna and Rachel (or other key things like Genosha).

The past several years have been Marvel trying to force Havok into Lorna's affairs, force images and mentions of Havok at least once wherever they can, and misusing her name and image to promote things where Havok is the star. The only thing I can think of since 2017 where Marvel used Lorna and didn't force Havok onto her in some way is her cameo in House of X.

At this point, I have to assume that nothing Marvel says on this issue can be trusted. Actions speak louder than words, and their actions have said they don't value or respect Lorna at all. And honestly, I think they want me to think this way about them. Otherwise they wouldn't constantly reinforce it. Dispelling this view would be a very simple matter. All it takes is a) not bringing up Havok in relation to her at all, b) using her own actual character history and potential, and c) doing so in a meaningful capacity (i.e. not "lol she got to say hi to Jean in one panel, we're done for the next 20 years boys, let's pack it in"). They aren't willing to do that, so it's safe to assume this is how they want me to see them.

[RachelGrey]

I have no answers to your pessimism. I understand it because I go through the same feelings about Rachel.

For example at least Lorna wasn't turned into a dog because Lazy writers forgot that Rachel had overcome her hound programming and was no longer controlled about it. At least Lorna doesn't end up mind controlled very two seconds.

Both Lorna and Rachel don't get much book time, and they often get sidelined in favour of other characters.

That's part of the reason I am happy they are on a book together, because they both need some love from a good writer to help them come back as great characters.

But since I have felt the way you feel about Rachel, I can't tell you to stop feeling that way about Lorna. I can only say that no writer will ever fully live up to your expectations, Leah will have her own vision for Lorna and Rachel and it may not be your vision. This is the same for all writers. I personally don't think Jonathan Hickman has any idea what to do with Rachel and she is a non-character under him. Under Hickman Lorna's story is mostly about her relationship with her father Magneto. That makes sense since his focus is on Charles and Erik and how what they are doing impacts the people around them.

But, Leah is going to write about the characters she asked to have on her book. She wants to write about these characters. Also, Leah did not get Alex, and she may not have even asked for him on her book. I think Lorna is going to have a fresh start and Alex won't even come up as anything more than part of Lorna's history. But that's just my opinion.

I just worry that you aren't going to be happy with any Lorna story being told because it doesn't agree with your vision. Rachel has had her ups and downs, the writers sometimes do her justice, and other times they struggle to figure her out. I am sure Leah will decide things for Rachel that I may not agree with my own head canon, but I am still glad she is writing Rachel rather than Hickman who has no idea what Rachel is other than Scott's daughter with no personality of her own!

[salarta]

It's true that I won't be completely satisfied. I think that's true for anyone that thinks critically about what they're reading. There are always going to be issues, and ways to improve. And they're not always about Polaris. Sometimes they're about other characters.

That doesn't mean I can never be happy. I loved Jeff Parker's Exiles, and it's the main thing I suggest people read if they're getting into Lorna. I also enjoyed Secret Wars: House of M and I think it's one of the extremely rare cases of Lorna being treated very well - but I think Pietro wasn't treated well in that book. So I needed to say something about it, because it'd be pretty terrible of me to disregard another character getting treated poorly just cause Lorna's treated well for once. I'm not a "I got hazed as a freshman so now that I'm a senior I'm gonna haze me some freshmen" person.

Finally, I did enjoy most of Peter David's All-New X-Factor from ANXF #7 onward, and regularly say so. I had major problems with ANXF #4-6, and I think her depiction improved starting with ANXF #7. And on that note: ANXF didn't exactly agree with my vision. In my vision, Lorna should've been wearing her iconic costume, not the team costume - but I accepted it because a) she was the leader, and b) there was an actual reason for the costume. In my vision, ANXF also should've been far more techy, dealing with things like online harassment and SWATting for example. Again, ANXF didn't do that, but I still bought and read all issues, and enjoyed it from #7 on after.

The problems of today aren't a matter of "it doesn't perfectly fit my vision." They're a matter of mounting lack of respect for the character. Putting Lorna in limbo from Fall 2015 to Spring/Fall 2017 didn't help, but the issues really kicked in the moment Marvel had Havok hijack Lorna's return in Blue. Marvel needed to show they actually see Lorna's worth as her own character, and instead they proceeded to emphasize how they think she's worthless outside of promoting various men, mainly Havok.

Specific to HoX/PoX/DoX, Lorna survived Genosha. Lorna launched Krakoa into space. Lorna was the second woman to join the X-Men. After two years of using Lorna only to promote Havok, Magneto and Bishop, Marvel decided none of those actual things about her character matter. With X-Factor's press release, Marvel basically said they think of Lorna as a nobody X-Factor alumnus who can be helpful in promoting Northstar's team book, perhaps with a little additional Havok promotion on the side. Leah could have said so many actual things about Lorna herself, and didn't.

If I were to insist on my specific vision? I'd say Marvel is absolutely required to give Polaris a solo book. I'd say they're also required to do a new X-women cover that includes Lorna, and a new major X-Men event that meaningfully utilizes Lorna's Genosha history (perhaps even making her its central character, like Age of X-Man). I'd say they have to focus on her nature as a survivor, I'd say they must have her in a romantic relationship with Jean, I'd say there should be a Magnus family book or a Polaris and Scarlet Witch book. I'd say 50 years of disregard, and the past few years of trying to exploit her to promote Havok, mean Marvel has to do these things to make up for both lost time and recent mistreatment.

I don't do that. I remain open to Lorna just getting a mini, a oneshot (Giant X-Men can do various characters, why not Lorna?), or leading a team book (like she did with ANXF - only this time with Marvel actually supporting the book). I say Lorna should get at least some acknowledgment of what she's been through in her life that isn't "banged Havok" or "was on this team back when she was banging Havok 30 years ago." Marvel should acknowledge her real worth within the franchise, instead of leaving her off an X-women variant cover that includes others like Dani Moonstar and Mystique.

If Marvel isn't willing to do any of that, then they shouldn't use her. She's wasted on this company, and she's better off left in the hands of her fans who will actually care and make her into everything Marvel won't. And I am very serious when I say that. If this is the way Marvel's going to treat her, then she doesn't need Marvel. Marvel's just getting in the way of what she has to offer. Let the people who have figurines of her on their work desks, who get tattoos of her, who cosplay as her, who draw fanart and fan comics and write fanfic, show the world what they see in her without Marvel trying to undermine it with "lol she's worthless but hey check out this blonde guy she's dated."