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  1. #916
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cruelrain View Post
    When i was little i loved the Scarlet Witch and Polaris moments in the Wolverine and the x-men show, i always feel like they were matching costumes and headpieces because in reality her costumes look very similar.
    I think part of that is because Lorna's Starjammers outfit became her default iconic look and it's a really simple design with a bathing suit and headdress so very similar to Wanda's classic look. This is why I prefer the original outfit she debuted in because it wasn't nearly as generic looking and even her headdress was shaped differently. This is far more distinctive imo.

  2. #917

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    Quote Originally Posted by houndsofluv View Post
    I've gotta be honest, if they didn't know Lorna was in X-Factor by now they must not be paying too much attention. Which is totally fine, obv it shouldn't be expected of fans to stay sucked into the comic news cycle 24/7, I just dont think her new digs should take the blame for that. she's been front and centre in almost all promotional materials, present in most preview art, on variants , etc. And what other x-woman has green hair ? lol

    I hear your concerns abt the costume though and I say fear not ! they seem to be staying true to the "mutants wear mutants clothes" decree - in the Carlos Gomez WIPs we've seen, probably from XoS, she's still in her most recent (and recognizable) costume
    It's true, casual fans aren't paying much attention. Marvel doesn't give them much reason to. It'd be one thing if Marvel regularly gave Lorna a prominent place in their work, like leading teams, or playing a highly visible and meaningful role in events, but Marvel doesn't do that. This past decade has seen her in space limbo for a year before X-Factor, in limbo again from end of 2015 to middle/end of 2017, and in two fleeting appearances in the past year of HoX/PoX to whenever X-Factor starts; and that's only covering absences, not the ways she's been used. If you're a casual fan, after a while it's easier to just do other things and figure you'll eventually hear about it if it matters.

    Which is why when certain comics were coming out like All-New X-Factor or Secret Wars: House of M, back then I would make whole posts about it and at one point commission the Lorna and Wanda pic that has Lorna in her ANXF costume. To make casual fans more aware that something meaningful was happening for once.

    There's two routes a fan (casual or not) can take when they see a woman with green hair. One is to assume it's not Lorna cause she's missing her headgear, cape, etc. The other is to assume every green-haired woman must be Lorna. Which, I'll be honest, I have in fact seen the latter happen a lot. People have mistaken Aphrodite IX for Lorna. This picture was mistaken for Lorna, including on the Polaris thread last year (look closely, you'll see the character has a wand in her hand; original is called Gatekeeper by Skulio).



    There was even that case a year or two ago in X-Men comics where there was a bachelorette party (I think it was for Kitty, IIRC) with a green-haired woman dancing in one panel. Fans immediately assumed it was Lorna, only for the writer to come out and say it wasn't her, just some random woman that got drawn with green hair.

    I chalk that up to other Lorna fans really, really wanting to believe various things are Lorna because Marvel doesn't give her the support she deserves.

    Otherwise, it's very easy to assume Lorna without her common costume is some other random woman. There's Vertigo, Abigail Brand, Viper/Madame Hydra (who was at one point Warrior White Princess), Carmilla Black, the list goes on. And there's always the chance of Marvel creating more new characters with green hair. Lorna's the most recognizable and "popular" green-haired woman out of X-Men specifically and Marvel as a whole, and a lot of fans do immediately think of Lorna when they see green hair. But her lack of usage by Marvel and cases like the bachelorette party mentioned before lend heavily to fans expecting that a green-haired woman in a comic published by Marvel must not be her unless the woman has Lorna's other iconic visual features.

    I've noticed that Marvel's utilizing Lorna's iconic costume as a general rule, which is good, but not really worth praise when there are bigger issues that need fixing.
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  3. #918
    Mighty Member houndsofluv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luckystar. View Post
    More Carlos Gomez WIP

    I'm honestly floored. I thought the sketches alone looked amazing but seeing it inked opens a whole other level.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cruelrain View Post
    When i was little i loved the Scarlet Witch and Polaris moments in the Wolverine and the x-men show, i always feel like they were matching costumes and headpieces because in reality her costumes look very similar.
    same here ! then I come to the comics and their relationship is nothing like on the show . lil me needed a moment

  4. #919
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    Quote Originally Posted by salarta View Post
    Which is why when certain comics were coming out like All-New X-Factor or Secret Wars: House of M, back then I would make whole posts about it and at one point commission the Lorna and Wanda pic that has Lorna in her ANXF costume. To make casual fans more aware that something meaningful was happening for once.

    There's two routes a fan (casual or not) can take when they see a woman with green hair. One is to assume it's not Lorna cause she's missing her headgear, cape, etc. The other is to assume every green-haired woman must be Lorna. Which, I'll be honest, I have in fact seen the latter happen a lot. People have mistaken Aphrodite IX for Lorna. This picture was mistaken for Lorna, including on the Polaris thread last year (look closely, you'll see the character has a wand in her hand; original is called Gatekeeper by Skulio).



    There was even that case a year or two ago in X-Men comics where there was a bachelorette party (I think it was for Kitty, IIRC) with a green-haired woman dancing in one panel. Fans immediately assumed it was Lorna, only for the writer to come out and say it wasn't her, just some random woman that got drawn with green hair.
    .
    Wow that art is gorgeous. And if you hadn't said anything, I would be 100% sure that is Lorna. Even after you said it wasn't her, I still couldn't feel positive because of the resemblance, the green energy, and those rock boulders looking metal.

    I mentioned the bachelorette party too and while I was under the impression it was Abigail Brand, most people on social media labeled it as Lorna which I thought was some much-needed promotion for her so didn't bother to correct.

  5. #920

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    Quote Originally Posted by whitecrown View Post
    But I really like your idea of making the twins related to Lorna through Susanna Dare and not Magnus. That would be a final kick to Magneto that he's been excluded from his own family tree in a way and I've always wanted to know more about Lorna's mother's side of the family, the adoption, and how Zala Dane came into the picture.
    Marvel's really dropped the ball on Lorna over the decades. They finally told her origin story ~40 years after they should've, but that huge time gap means there's so much else about her that should've been covered by now and hasn't been. Her mother's side of the family is one of those things.

    It's also one of my arguments for why Lorna should really get a miniseries or ongoing solo. There's a hell of a lot of ground to cover, and Marvel's made it exceptionally clear over the past decade that they really need that kind of dedicated work on Lorna to understand who she is and what she offers. She needs someone in a position where they need to do some real research, sometimes read between the lines, then digest what she's been through to consider how it should have affected both her nature as a person and her place in the Marvel universe. Without that, we just keep getting people that don't put any thought into her outside shallow impressions of what they read in the Claremont era and the 90s.

    Quote Originally Posted by whitecrown View Post
    Wow, I knew Marvel was petty but to go out of their way to sabotage Wanda and Lorna's meeting. Shouldn't have put it beneath them. I remember the issue of Lorna's origin was heavily promoted but I remember next-to-nothing about the issue with Lorna and Wanda meeting. I didn't even realized it had occurred until after it came out and people were discussing it on Tumblr. I'm so glad it backfired on Marvel and the issue actually outsold the preceding one. The funny thing about you bringing up the Enchantress is that if you look at her appreciation thread, her fandom has very similar feelings towards her as Lorna's fandom does towards Lorna, the same belief that their character has been squandered and wasted by Marvel for years now and nobody is willing to do anything with her. And I could just see Marvel claiming that the reason they don't promote Lorna is because they have Enchantress so one green-clad lady is enough, nevermind that there's barely anything similar in their appearance beyond one color and that they both wear a headdress.
    I didn't see anything to suggest Lorna's origin issue got heavily promoted. What I remember from that time was an article on Marvel.com that was briefly visible on the front page. I don't remember anything else. Maybe I missed something you saw.

    I think if Marvel had properly promoted ANXF #14, it would've sold a lot more. I remember there were no copies of ANXF #14 available on the shelf when I went to my local comic shop (back when I used to go to it). Readers managing to get a physical copy after it's already been published is dependent on if the publisher is willing to send it for second printing.

    As for Enchantress, while I don't keep tabs on her usage, in all honesty I have to agree with her fans. She's been squandered too. I can think of a few ways she could've been used and wasn't. Marvel does like to try to trick fandoms into fighting each other over artificial limits though, and I've made it a point to reject those attempts.

    Quote Originally Posted by whitecrown View Post
    And I think another issue is that a lot of casual fans also only associate Lorna with Alex and they don't see anything problematic in their relationship or towards Lorna's character since that's being discussed in the Angel thread.
    Yes, many fans who first find out about Lorna don't know the history, and so don't realize why Havok is bad for her. Most do eventually see it though, and Marvel always falls into the pit of showing why it's bad because they can't help themselves. They keep not wanting to put in the time and work needed on Lorna to make that relationship not suck.

    Quote Originally Posted by whitecrown View Post
    If there is a character who gets confused with Lorna it's probably Abigail Brand. She's pretty obscure so when she does show up in X-Men comics, I know most people assume it's Lorna and wonder why Lorna acts or feels so different. I think even when Abigail showed up in Kitty's Bachelorette party, if you look at social media, most people labeled her as Lorna so I guess the free promotion is good for Lorna at least. So I can understand why the new costume in X-Factor just confuses fans.
    Yep, and kind of serendipitous that you mentioned Kitty's bachelorette party and I thought of it too before reading your post. Are we clones? We're clones, aren't we?

    Quote Originally Posted by whitecrown View Post
    I'd very much like to see a new cover with Lorna using her magnetic powers to hold Alex and Magnus in place and that would be a much-needed improvement with her venting her feelings out on them and they would take it and listen. Rather than being manhandled and unconscious in their toxic struggle over her. And speaking of Giant-Size X-Men's debut issue, note that when they picked two female characters, the picked the two who have the most enmity of any female characters in Marvel. Not Jean with Lorna, Ororo, or Rachel or any other female friendship but the one that mostly male fans love to associate with a catfight over their incel hero who they live vicariously through. I didn't find that issue and its mere existence to be very progressive or feminist at all because it was clear who it was geared towards and it wasn't female fans.
    In my personal preference, when I say Havok away from Lorna, I mean so far apart that at most they're in different locations on the same book but they don't cross paths. The issues of Austen's run where we saw flashbacks of Lorna surviving the Genoshan genocide are a good example. Lorna and Havok were used on the same book, but they were doing different things. I'm really just looking for justice, not revenge. Justice to me means Lorna getting all the stuff she should've received and didn't for all these decades.

    Besides, we also saw with X-Men Blue #9 that even when Marvel tries the "revenge" angle, they still manage to make it into a Havok promotion fest.

    That's a good point, on the nature of how Marvel's typically depicted Jean and Emma's relationship. I'm thinking through both the Jean-Wolverine-Cyclops love triangle and the Lorna-Havok-Iceman love triangle in relation to that.

    There's a lot of things wrong with Marvel and the X-books right now.

    Quote Originally Posted by whitecrown View Post
    Which X-Women variant cover was that? What did they snub her from now? I don't understand the intention to make Magneto an omega (when past comics have outright stated he isn't one) but then to refuse to give Lorna the same classification when past comics have also stated that she's on his level. They did the same with Rachel but not giving her omega-level status even though Jean is and the funny thing is that Rachel was the first ever mutant called an omega-level mutant.
    It was this variant cover. There were actually "two" covers - this is one half, the other half is a mirror image with the same women in different costumes.



    Notice that all Marvel would've had to do to include Lorna was position Kitty closer to Storm. It would've been precisely that easy.

    Regarding Omega, personally I think the entire classification system is garbage and needs to be binned. It's another way to create artificial limits, and they're always driven by ignorance and bias. The only two ways I can see them being good are 1) if they were made by a character in-universe, thereby showing that character's biases, or 2) if they were made with deliberate intent to tear down the whole concept at a future date. But if Marvel's going to use it, then I'm going to point out when bias is so pervasive that they don't even follow their own rules.

    Quote Originally Posted by whitecrown View Post
    I like your point that the best option for Lorna is to focus on the fandom instead of how Marvel will treat her because we all know inevitably what they're going to do with her. They're so predictable and they have been for years now.
    Marvel's one of the more predictable companies I've observed. They used to surprise me back in the mid-2010s, before I learned their pattern.

    They'll appear to offer something good for her. They'll say nice things, maybe have some good images. Usually, it'll be a bait-and-switch where they're trying to use her to promote Havok or some other character. This is Marvel's most common behavior since 2017. Sometimes, it'll be an attempt to placate fans so they're less likely to complain when Lorna's not in anything for a year or two. Other times, it'll be good but undermined in some way. Finally got Lorna's origin story? Let's have her say she never wants to see her dad again. Spent time with her sister? Let's withhold the cover, and make it the second issue in a double shipping month. In 11 years, I have yet to see a case where Marvel does something genuinely good for Lorna and actually gives it the support it needs.

    You'd think Marvel would jump all over Lorna's newfound popularity from Gifted. When they thought Blink would break out on the show, they were eager enough to relaunch Exiles and put 616 Blink on a team. But nope. They just used Lorna to promote Havok, Magneto and other male characters.

    P.S. The Havok "True Believers" comic is now the second time in a year that Marvel's trying to get people to read Havok's introductory issue. The first time was Marvel Tales: X-Men, where they had a nice cover featuring Lorna to promote Havok's story. Meanwhile, Marvel has not reprinted Lorna's introductory issue.

    I have to catch on the other posts, so may or may not have more to say from them.
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  6. #921

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cruelrain View Post
    When i was little i loved the Scarlet Witch and Polaris moments in the Wolverine and the x-men show, i always feel like they were matching costumes and headpieces because in reality her costumes look very similar.
    The way they match is a wonderfully serendipitous outcome for them as sisters, and I think a big part of why female fans love to cosplay as them.

    Quote Originally Posted by whitecrown View Post
    I mentioned the bachelorette party too and while I was under the impression it was Abigail Brand, most people on social media labeled it as Lorna which I thought was some much-needed promotion for her so didn't bother to correct.
    I used to correct people when they would mistake some other character for Lorna. I stopped bothering after a while. It gets annoyingly repetitive, and letting it do whatever nets Lorna more awareness than anything Marvel's going to do with her.
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  7. #922
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    Nice new art from Carlos Gomez. Its pretty clear what issue it will be based on the solicits.

    X-FACTOR #4
    LEAH WILLIAMS (W) • CARLOS GOMEZ (A) • Cover by IVAN SHAVRIN
    Variant Cover by R.B. SILVA
    ANGEL TIMELESS VARIANT COVER BY ALEX ROSS
    X OF SWORDS – CHAPTER 2
    Death and rebirth. Corruption. A dark discovery.
    40 PGS./Rated T+ …$4.99
    X-Factor has one tie in to the crossover, which is light for a massive 24+ issue crossover. That doesn't mean we might not see Lorna pop up in other issues though. The decision to have a detective outfit for her and a better known outfit is a good choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by whitecrown View Post
    I think part of that is because Lorna's Starjammers outfit became her default iconic look and it's a really simple design with a bathing suit and headdress so very similar to Wanda's classic look. This is why I prefer the original outfit she debuted in because it wasn't nearly as generic looking and even her headdress was shaped differently. This is far more distinctive imo.
    Her classic is a superior design all around yes.



    Classic Lorna by Phillip Tan.

    Speaking of Phillip Tan, I just picked up his variant cover to UXM 429 which was the beginning of the year long Xavier/Lorna back and forth. That was the last truly powerful storyline for Lorna where I can say I felt the character had a voice of her own and felt relevant to the x-books.

    Last edited by jmc247; 06-20-2020 at 06:28 AM.

  8. #923
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    Quote Originally Posted by salarta View Post
    I used to correct people when they would mistake some other character for Lorna. I stopped bothering after a while. It gets annoyingly repetitive, and letting it do whatever nets Lorna more awareness than anything Marvel's going to do with her.
    That's bound to happen with lesser known characters and unless they're super popular, like the 05 X-men, they'll get lost in the very growing mutant population/X-men. She may have had high profile appearances in other media, like tv shows (The Gifted) and cartoons (Wolverine and the X-men) over the last few years but she's far from being ideated on sight by most comic readers.

  9. #924
    Astonishing Member Soulsword323's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luckystar. View Post
    More Carlos Gomez WIP

    She looks AMAZING. Ugh, I can't wait to read this. Excited to see what Polaris is up to.

  10. #925
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    Quote Originally Posted by salarta View Post
    Marvel's really dropped the ball on Lorna over the decades. They finally told her origin story ~40 years after they should've, but that huge time gap means there's so much else about her that should've been covered by now and hasn't been. Her mother's side of the family is one of those things.

    It's also one of my arguments for why Lorna should really get a miniseries or ongoing solo. There's a hell of a lot of ground to cover, and Marvel's made it exceptionally clear over the past decade that they really need that kind of dedicated work on Lorna to understand who she is and what she offers. She needs someone in a position where they need to do some real research, sometimes read between the lines, then digest what she's been through to consider how it should have affected both her nature as a person and her place in the Marvel universe. Without that, we just keep getting people that don't put any thought into her outside shallow impressions of what they read in the Claremont era and the 90s.



    I didn't see anything to suggest Lorna's origin issue got heavily promoted. What I remember from that time was an article on Marvel.com that was briefly visible on the front page. I don't remember anything else. Maybe I missed something you saw.

    I think if Marvel had properly promoted ANXF #14, it would've sold a lot more. I remember there were no copies of ANXF #14 available on the shelf when I went to my local comic shop (back when I used to go to it). Readers managing to get a physical copy after it's already been published is dependent on if the publisher is willing to send it for second printing.

    As for Enchantress, while I don't keep tabs on her usage, in all honesty I have to agree with her fans. She's been squandered too. I can think of a few ways she could've been used and wasn't. Marvel does like to try to trick fandoms into fighting each other over artificial limits though, and I've made it a point to reject those attempts.



    Yes, many fans who first find out about Lorna don't know the history, and so don't realize why Havok is bad for her. Most do eventually see it though, and Marvel always falls into the pit of showing why it's bad because they can't help themselves. They keep not wanting to put in the time and work needed on Lorna to make that relationship not suck.



    Yep, and kind of serendipitous that you mentioned Kitty's bachelorette party and I thought of it too before reading your post. Are we clones? We're clones, aren't we?



    In my personal preference, when I say Havok away from Lorna, I mean so far apart that at most they're in different locations on the same book but they don't cross paths. The issues of Austen's run where we saw flashbacks of Lorna surviving the Genoshan genocide are a good example. Lorna and Havok were used on the same book, but they were doing different things. I'm really just looking for justice, not revenge. Justice to me means Lorna getting all the stuff she should've received and didn't for all these decades.

    Besides, we also saw with X-Men Blue #9 that even when Marvel tries the "revenge" angle, they still manage to make it into a Havok promotion fest.

    That's a good point, on the nature of how Marvel's typically depicted Jean and Emma's relationship. I'm thinking through both the Jean-Wolverine-Cyclops love triangle and the Lorna-Havok-Iceman love triangle in relation to that.

    There's a lot of things wrong with Marvel and the X-books right now.



    It was this variant cover. There were actually "two" covers - this is one half, the other half is a mirror image with the same women in different costumes.



    Notice that all Marvel would've had to do to include Lorna was position Kitty closer to Storm. It would've been precisely that easy.

    Regarding Omega, personally I think the entire classification system is garbage and needs to be binned. It's another way to create artificial limits, and they're always driven by ignorance and bias. The only two ways I can see them being good are 1) if they were made by a character in-universe, thereby showing that character's biases, or 2) if they were made with deliberate intent to tear down the whole concept at a future date. But if Marvel's going to use it, then I'm going to point out when bias is so pervasive that they don't even follow their own rules.



    Marvel's one of the more predictable companies I've observed. They used to surprise me back in the mid-2010s, before I learned their pattern.

    They'll appear to offer something good for her. They'll say nice things, maybe have some good images. Usually, it'll be a bait-and-switch where they're trying to use her to promote Havok or some other character. This is Marvel's most common behavior since 2017. Sometimes, it'll be an attempt to placate fans so they're less likely to complain when Lorna's not in anything for a year or two. Other times, it'll be good but undermined in some way. Finally got Lorna's origin story? Let's have her say she never wants to see her dad again. Spent time with her sister? Let's withhold the cover, and make it the second issue in a double shipping month. In 11 years, I have yet to see a case where Marvel does something genuinely good for Lorna and actually gives it the support it needs.

    You'd think Marvel would jump all over Lorna's newfound popularity from Gifted. When they thought Blink would break out on the show, they were eager enough to relaunch Exiles and put 616 Blink on a team. But nope. They just used Lorna to promote Havok, Magneto and other male characters.

    P.S. The Havok "True Believers" comic is now the second time in a year that Marvel's trying to get people to read Havok's introductory issue. The first time was Marvel Tales: X-Men, where they had a nice cover featuring Lorna to promote Havok's story. Meanwhile, Marvel has not reprinted Lorna's introductory issue.
    Frankly, I'm surprised they told her origin at all. I was for sure that they would never bother to clarify her parentage with Magneto considering it took at least 10 years from the Austen era before we got 100% proof.

    And yes, I agree that Lorna needs something concrete to really establish her as a character and what she believes in, particularly since she has a lot of Marvel connections that have remained stagnant over the years.

    To be honest, I think the reason I remember Lorna's origin issue being heavily promoted was because of this thread and seeing Lorna fans discuss it. It may not have been Marvel promoting it at all as much as it was the fans since this was an issue a long time waiting.

    You make an excellent point about Marvel letting the fandoms fight each other on their behalf and it's no coincidence that this typically almost always features female character fandoms.

    I wish Marvel would consider giving Lorna a new love interest if they have to pair her up with someone. It's not surprising at all to me that Havok has been allowed various love interests (Maddie, Annie, Wasp) and Lorna has really only ever had Iceman and Havok and even Iceman barely even counted and he definitely doesn't count now.

    We must be clones or psychic twin sisters lol since I've heard that was a theory about Polaris and Malice at one point. I can't believe that a random green-haired girl was thrown into the issue despite the fact that they have a very prominent X-Woman with green hair so they could just as easily have made it her.

    Oh I agree with you that Havok and Lorna should be kept miles apart because if they're even remotely near each other, a writer will pair them up again. That's a noble sentiment though that you'd rather have justice for Lorna over revenge. However, I don't think it would be unjust for Lorna to finally hash things out with Alex and let him know that she's completely over him and he's not to approach her romantically at all anymore. So he knows his place. And considering the stunt he pulled with standing her up at her wedding and plasma blasting her at the end, I don't think it would be uncalled for if she lets a magnetic zap loose or two.

    The annoying thing about the Lorna/Iceman/Havok love triangle is that we didn't even get to see most of it on-panel. Lorna and Alex were sort of background characters even before the book was prematurely cancelled and then when it was brought back as reprints and the X-Men characters would guest-star in other books, that's how we find out that Lorna dumped Bobby for Alex. It was so underused that there's a reason that when they used a flashback of Lorna and Bobby together in Deadly Genesis, they completely got the context wrong and acted as if Lorna and Bobby were secretly getting together behind Alex's back.

    Oh I've seen that X-Women variant cover and that was a cheap blow to not include Lorna (or even Rachel, Jubilee, or Dazzler) on there. Especially when Dani Moonstar, who barely counts as an X-Man was put on it. Not to mention the villainesses featured on the cover as well.

    Marvel retcons the omega-level classification with every new run and writer so there's still a chance that the Magneto/Lorna discrepancy can be redeemed.

    I remember when Wanda and Pietro were retconned as no longer being Magneto's children, there was some hope that Lorna might get a push as a result as Magneto's lone child but even that fell through. Especially since she never made it into the First Class films or any of the new X-Men films. I have no idea how they consider Blink to be a bigger character than Lorna but apparently so. She only exists to prop up her father and her ex-lover.

    Strange that Havok's first appearance has been reprinted yet again, but Lorna's iconic cover, one of the most famous X-Men covers and Steranko's favorite, has not yet received the same treatment. Or not so strange coming from Marvel I guess.

  11. #926
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    Quote Originally Posted by salarta View Post

    I used to correct people when they would mistake some other character for Lorna. I stopped bothering after a while. It gets annoyingly repetitive, and letting it do whatever nets Lorna more awareness than anything Marvel's going to do with her.
    Lol, I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who lets people mistakenly believe Lorna was somewhere she wasn't. It's good promotion imo especially since we can't count on Marvel to do it.

  12. #927
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmc247 View Post
    Her classic is a superior design all around yes.



    Classic Lorna by Phillip Tan.

    Speaking of Phillip Tan, I just picked up his variant cover to UXM 429 which was the beginning of the year long Xavier/Lorna back and forth. That was the last truly powerful storyline for Lorna where I can say I felt the character had a voice of her own and felt relevant to the x-books.

    Phillip Tan does an amazing Lorna. One of the few artists who seems to genuinely like her and can depict all her complexities.

    I've never seen that UXM 429 variant cover before. So great to see Lorna get such a spotlight!

  13. #928
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    Quote Originally Posted by whitecrown View Post
    Phillip Tan does an amazing Lorna. One of the few artists who seems to genuinely like her and can depict all her complexities.

    I've never seen that UXM 429 variant cover before. So great to see Lorna get such a spotlight!
    Lorna in terms of promotion has had her moments. Back in 2003/2004 she was very much promoted as a solid B lister by the x-line. She had an interesting story to go along with it that showed the range in the character yes.

    And yes, I agree that Lorna needs something concrete to really establish her as a character and what she believes in, particularly since she has a lot of Marvel connections that have remained stagnant over the years.
    When they moved away from her believing in anything around Decimation the character and her story lost its rudder. That dovetailed on Scott basically becoming Magneto’s heir for a great number of years.

    Lorna who believes in nothing doesn’t do too well for the reason you said her connections have been stagnant. Writers don’t know how to write her with other characters and make it interesting when she written as a generic female character.

  14. #929

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    Quote Originally Posted by whitecrown View Post
    Oh I agree with you that Havok and Lorna should be kept miles apart because if they're even remotely near each other, a writer will pair them up again. That's a noble sentiment though that you'd rather have justice for Lorna over revenge. However, I don't think it would be unjust for Lorna to finally hash things out with Alex and let him know that she's completely over him and he's not to approach her romantically at all anymore. So he knows his place. And considering the stunt he pulled with standing her up at her wedding and plasma blasting her at the end, I don't think it would be uncalled for if she lets a magnetic zap loose or two.
    The idea of Lorna confronting Havok is one of those things where I can see good reason for it, but if it happens, I think they need the time apart before Marvel could do it in any way that's good. Otherwise we'll just get it written in a way that still ends up being all about promoting Havok.

    Quote Originally Posted by whitecrown View Post
    Marvel retcons the omega-level classification with every new run and writer so there's still a chance that the Magneto/Lorna discrepancy can be redeemed.
    I think as it stands at this very second, all the current Omega classification list does is demonstrate where Hickman's biases lie. One character ends up on the list, but another character that has equal or more reason to be on the list under the very criteria he put forward somehow isn't. He either needs to radically rethink the whole concept or do away with it. All merely tweaking the criteria so Magneto's still valid but Lorna's not would do is reaffirm his biases and suggest they're worse than previously thought.

    Quote Originally Posted by whitecrown View Post
    I remember when Wanda and Pietro were retconned as no longer being Magneto's children, there was some hope that Lorna might get a push as a result as Magneto's lone child but even that fell through. Especially since she never made it into the First Class films or any of the new X-Men films. I have no idea how they consider Blink to be a bigger character than Lorna but apparently so. She only exists to prop up her father and her ex-lover.
    I knew it wouldn't really translate into Lorna getting a bigger push, because we saw for quite some time how people within Marvel first tried to ignore her as Magneto's daughter, then tried to write around her as if she didn't really "count." It's something of a miracle that they didn't just wholesale retcon her again and shove her back into crying behind a rock for Havok to save her from Sabretooth. The big issue now is Marvel needing to get Lorna's dynamics with her father right. Marvel has a tendency to treat her dynamics with other men in the same way as she's been treated around Havok, so it's essential to push for Marvel looking at their relationship sincerely on its own opportunities.

    I don't think it's strange that they thought Blink would break out, but I do think it's telling how they were eager to promote Blink yet refused to do the same for Lorna. It shows how deeply entrenched negative attitudes toward Lorna are at Marvel when they see all the Gifted buzz about Lorna and all they can think is "I know, let's use her to promote Havok."

    Quote Originally Posted by whitecrown View Post
    Strange that Havok's first appearance has been reprinted yet again, but Lorna's iconic cover, one of the most famous X-Men covers and Steranko's favorite, has not yet received the same treatment. Or not so strange coming from Marvel I guess.
    It's become pretty obvious that Marvel's been really, really trying to force Havok into popularity since 2017. And honestly, I wouldn't really care what they did with Havok if Marvel a) gave Lorna everything she's due, and b) hadn't repeatedly misused Lorna in their quest to promote Havok - especially in the past few years. If Marvel's going to push Havok into the spotlight, and they refuse to make things right for Lorna, then how badly they've treated Lorna is also going into the spotlight whether they like it or not.
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  15. #930
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmc247 View Post
    Lorna in terms of promotion has had her moments. Back in 2003/2004 she was very much promoted as a solid B lister by the x-line. She had an interesting story to go along with it that showed the range in the character yes.



    When they moved away from her believing in anything around Decimation the character and her story lost its rudder. That dovetailed on Scott basically becoming Magneto’s heir for a great number of years.

    Lorna who believes in nothing doesn’t do too well for the reason you said her connections have been stagnant. Writers don’t know how to write her with other characters and make it interesting when she written as a generic female character.
    I miss those days, they felt full of potential. I really don't like Austen much as a writer but I can never hate him as others do precisely because of his work with Lorna even if I didn't approve of everything he did with her, especially that awful love triangle. I don't know how Lorna was squandered so effortlessly after.

    Decimation unfortunately rocked the X-Men's world and meant that Lorna no longer even had a place in it. Even after getting her powers back in a storyline that frankly no one liked, she was then shunted off to space and forgotten about. The Rise and Fall of the Shi'ar Empire was one of the first X-Men comics I ever read and because Lorna was so prominently featured in it, I always figured she had a similar presence in the rest of the X-Men's history. Ha, little did I know.

    At best, she's just wallpaper who is brought out every so often to use her powers for something but even that is always paired with a reminder that whatever she's doing, Magneto would do better. The utter disrespect of it all.

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