Page 63 of 84 FirstFirst ... 135359606162636465666773 ... LastLast
Results 931 to 945 of 1259
  1. #931
    Incredible Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Posts
    590

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by salarta View Post
    The idea of Lorna confronting Havok is one of those things where I can see good reason for it, but if it happens, I think they need the time apart before Marvel could do it in any way that's good. Otherwise we'll just get it written in a way that still ends up being all about promoting Havok.



    I think as it stands at this very second, all the current Omega classification list does is demonstrate where Hickman's biases lie. One character ends up on the list, but another character that has equal or more reason to be on the list under the very criteria he put forward somehow isn't. He either needs to radically rethink the whole concept or do away with it. All merely tweaking the criteria so Magneto's still valid but Lorna's not would do is reaffirm his biases and suggest they're worse than previously thought.



    I knew it wouldn't really translate into Lorna getting a bigger push, because we saw for quite some time how people within Marvel first tried to ignore her as Magneto's daughter, then tried to write around her as if she didn't really "count." It's something of a miracle that they didn't just wholesale retcon her again and shove her back into crying behind a rock for Havok to save her from Sabretooth. The big issue now is Marvel needing to get Lorna's dynamics with her father right. Marvel has a tendency to treat her dynamics with other men in the same way as she's been treated around Havok, so it's essential to push for Marvel looking at their relationship sincerely on its own opportunities.

    I don't think it's strange that they thought Blink would break out, but I do think it's telling how they were eager to promote Blink yet refused to do the same for Lorna. It shows how deeply entrenched negative attitudes toward Lorna are at Marvel when they see all the Gifted buzz about Lorna and all they can think is "I know, let's use her to promote Havok."



    It's become pretty obvious that Marvel's been really, really trying to force Havok into popularity since 2017. And honestly, I wouldn't really care what they did with Havok if Marvel a) gave Lorna everything she's due, and b) hadn't repeatedly misused Lorna in their quest to promote Havok - especially in the past few years. If Marvel's going to push Havok into the spotlight, and they refuse to make things right for Lorna, then how badly they've treated Lorna is also going into the spotlight whether they like it or not.
    Yeah, it would turn out in a way that the audience is supposed to root for Havok instead and Lorna would get painted as the crazy ex yet again. She would get gaslighted and I'm really not in the mood to see that occur anytime soon, let alone ever again.

    I don't expect Hickman will change his classifications at all now so I'm just expecting that the next writer will end up altering things since the only consistent thing about the concept of an omega-level mutant is that it can be expected to constantly change with every new writer and every new run.

    In all of Lorna's history, would you say that her crying behind the rock for Alex while Sabretooth hunted her down was her worst published moment ever? I can think of a few others that would rank low but that truly has to be her worst moment. I have no idea how Claremont could empower almost all his female characters but not do the same with Lorna. And the only time she was empowered was always when she was brainwashed. She didn't get a codename or the ability to fly until Erik the Red brainwashed her and we really didn't see any impressive power displays from her until Malice took over. I'm really very curious as to why he had such a blindspot for her, because surely it has to be more complicated than the fact that he felt everything she could do, Storm could do better.

    What I find strange about them feeling Blink would break out is the fact that they thought she could capture a new audience but didn't feel the same about Lorna who is a much older and more recognizable character. It seems that Claremont isn't the only one with a blindspot towards her because all of Marvel has it too.

    Not even 2017 because Havok has been heavily pushed this whole past decade. He was given a role in First Class and then made the leader of Marvel NOW's flagship book. In the few bits of X-Men merchandise that were coming out, they'd include Havok but never Lorna. For whatever reason, they've had an interest to push him for a long time now.

  2. #932

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by whitecrown View Post
    In all of Lorna's history, would you say that her crying behind the rock for Alex while Sabretooth hunted her down was her worst published moment ever? I can think of a few others that would rank low but that truly has to be her worst moment. I have no idea how Claremont could empower almost all his female characters but not do the same with Lorna. And the only time she was empowered was always when she was brainwashed. She didn't get a codename or the ability to fly until Erik the Red brainwashed her and we really didn't see any impressive power displays from her until Malice took over. I'm really very curious as to why he had such a blindspot for her, because surely it has to be more complicated than the fact that he felt everything she could do, Storm could do better.
    I can't really say if that's the worst scene. I know it's the most common one that comes up because it so perfectly encapsulates all the problems with Marvel in only a few panels (or even just the one). But several scenes of Lorna obsessing over Havok's costume were also bad. Being subdued, put on display and having her powers stripped from her to build up Zaladane before Zaladane fought Magneto was also bad. Having all the X-Men more than willing to abuse Lorna cause Malice was controlling her body, in an "ends justify the means" (and let's not act all that broken up about it) way was also bad. Having a bunch of random people so desperate to kill Lorna out of blind hatred toward her that they're willing to die in the attempt because of "new powers" after Zaladane was also bad.

    When you have so many bad scenes, it's hard to say one specific scene is the definite worst. It's also one half of why it's not possible to just dismiss it as "mistakes of the past," the other half being how Marvel continues to treat her today. All those scenes and more fed directly into why Marvel treats Lorna the way they do now, and Marvel's shown no efforts to move forward from that past, making it necessary to keep bringing them up.

    There's many things that could be said about Claremont. Among all of them, what remains is that he clearly didn't have any respect for Lorna. My honest view is that he hated her, and wanted to tear her down. His depictions of Lorna always involve her easily defeated and humiliated to benefit other characters. He's had multiple chances to fix that too, and he's never done it, which to me says he still thinks that way about her.

    I do think Storm serves an important representational purpose in our culture, especially now. So it's good that Storm had the presence she did. Yet Claremont's treatment of Lorna and other characters around or for her at times was a disservice because it implies the character isn't viable on her own merits. I think it can even be argued that Claremont's behavior in this vein is why Marvel stopped doing as much with Storm after him. Of course, the idea of Storm not being viable on her own merits is absurd, just as it's absurd for Marvel to think that about Lorna. But we also know Marvel likes to have very wrong assumptions about character worth based on past usage.
    I can also be reached on Twitter and WordPress.

    Polaris 50th anniversary minicomic written by me and drawn by Mlad, now complete!

    Gallery of Polaris commissions (without NSFW or minicomics)

  3. #933
    Incredible Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Posts
    590

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by salarta View Post
    I can't really say if that's the worst scene. I know it's the most common one that comes up because it so perfectly encapsulates all the problems with Marvel in only a few panels (or even just the one). But several scenes of Lorna obsessing over Havok's costume were also bad. Being subdued, put on display and having her powers stripped from her to build up Zaladane before Zaladane fought Magneto was also bad. Having all the X-Men more than willing to abuse Lorna cause Malice was controlling her body, in an "ends justify the means" (and let's not act all that broken up about it) way was also bad. Having a bunch of random people so desperate to kill Lorna out of blind hatred toward her that they're willing to die in the attempt because of "new powers" after Zaladane was also bad.

    When you have so many bad scenes, it's hard to say one specific scene is the definite worst. It's also one half of why it's not possible to just dismiss it as "mistakes of the past," the other half being how Marvel continues to treat her today. All those scenes and more fed directly into why Marvel treats Lorna the way they do now, and Marvel's shown no efforts to move forward from that past, making it necessary to keep bringing them up.

    There's many things that could be said about Claremont. Among all of them, what remains is that he clearly didn't have any respect for Lorna. My honest view is that he hated her, and wanted to tear her down. His depictions of Lorna always involve her easily defeated and humiliated to benefit other characters. He's had multiple chances to fix that too, and he's never done it, which to me says he still thinks that way about her.

    I do think Storm serves an important representational purpose in our culture, especially now. So it's good that Storm had the presence she did. Yet Claremont's treatment of Lorna and other characters around or for her at times was a disservice because it implies the character isn't viable on her own merits. I think it can even be argued that Claremont's behavior in this vein is why Marvel stopped doing as much with Storm after him. Of course, the idea of Storm not being viable on her own merits is absurd, just as it's absurd for Marvel to think that about Lorna. But we also know Marvel likes to have very wrong assumptions about character worth based on past usage.
    What issue has Lorna obsess over Havok's costumes? I forgot about everything Zaladane does to break her down further plus the X-Men's disregard for Lorna during Inferno. I remember some fans were annoyed that Iceman was right there but never stood up for her, unless his lack of protestation was meant to imply that the X-Men didn't mean their threats towards Malice and were just bluffing.

    If I'm correct, Claremont never worked on Lorna again after his initial run right? I know even a lot of characters he did use quite frequently were sort of disregarded by him afterwards such as Cyclops and Colossus. He clearly favored characters like Storm, Wolverine, Jean, Psylocke, Rogue, Kitty, Gambit, Beast, Nightcrawler, Sage, and even Bishop much more. Even Angel was a character who Claremont didn't seem to regard very highly but he was more open to using him if he had to than other Silver Age characters like Iceman or Polaris.

    Few writers since Claremont have ever tried to push Storm the way he did and she became seen as more his character than anyone else's. I think Marvel personally felt she had enough popularity from him that they didn't need to bother putting in any more work with her. Clearly the same couldn't be said about Lorna, but his lack of interest in her meant that other writers, building on what Claremont did, would disregard her as well. Even Havok got a slight boost in the 90s from the third Summers brother mystery which kept him relevant in the 2000s as well, because of Claremont's work in establishing what is essentially the Summers-Grey dynasty. I know he said he had plans to do more with Magneto's family such as Zaladane, but he never got around to it.

  4. #934
    Judgement Awaits LordAllMIghty's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Dallas
    Posts
    4,838

    Default

    It's funny how some of you guys see Claremont as disliking Lorna. I saw it as him just retiring the character and giving her a life outside of being a super-hero. I thought it was a good story for Lorna and Alex.

    When he brought her back, she was very much a part of his story. I guess it's all perspective
    I've seen your end and it starts with you challenging me.

  5. #935
    Astonishing Member Soulsword323's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    4,062

    Default

    I don't think he hates her, but I don't think he really knew what to do with Polaris. A lot of his ideas just never really lead anywhere significant for the character. CC is capable of writing a good Lorna, but she's not a character he's clamoring to write IMO.

  6. #936
    BANNED ipanema45's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Posts
    32

    Default

    If he didn't like her, then he wouldn't have touched her at all, like Iceman.

  7. #937
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    3,907

    Default

    I think he liked her...probably not as much as Ororo or Jean...his clear favourites, but he liked her.
    He just never wrote any compelling stories in which she was the focal point.
    I actually loved her Malice arc right up until Zaladane took her powers.
    We are MUTANT...One people. One tribe. One family...Krakoa, FOREVER!!!

  8. #938
    Judgement Awaits LordAllMIghty's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Dallas
    Posts
    4,838

    Default

    Right. He had Storm, Jean, Psylocke, Kitty, Rogue and kind of Dazzler to devolve into characters. Lorna, like Iceman, Beast, Angel where part of the old generation and he was working with a new more popular mix of characters.

    I actually liked the whole Malic possession story
    I've seen your end and it starts with you challenging me.

  9. #939

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by whitecrown View Post
    What issue has Lorna obsess over Havok's costumes? I forgot about everything Zaladane does to break her down further plus the X-Men's disregard for Lorna during Inferno. I remember some fans were annoyed that Iceman was right there but never stood up for her, unless his lack of protestation was meant to imply that the X-Men didn't mean their threats towards Malice and were just bluffing.
    I think it's multiple issues. The second picture here is from Uncanny X-Men #376. I'm not sure where the first one's from; I think jmc knows better.




    Quote Originally Posted by whitecrown View Post
    If I'm correct, Claremont never worked on Lorna again after his initial run right? I know even a lot of characters he did use quite frequently were sort of disregarded by him afterwards such as Cyclops and Colossus. He clearly favored characters like Storm, Wolverine, Jean, Psylocke, Rogue, Kitty, Gambit, Beast, Nightcrawler, Sage, and even Bishop much more. Even Angel was a character who Claremont didn't seem to regard very highly but he was more open to using him if he had to than other Silver Age characters like Iceman or Polaris.
    No, Claremont's used her again about once per decade in the same way he used her during his initial run. In Black Sun, he wrote Lorna making armor around her body using her powers, only for who she was fighting to cut through it and for Lorna to suddenly act terrified of him. In X-Men Forever, he had evil Storm knock Lorna out in one shot, and later only let her "win" with the qualifiers of 1) being really really mad about Havok getting hurt, and 2) a good version of Storm was also attacking evil Storm at the same time. I honestly expected X-Men Black Magneto to be Claremont's latest decennial piece where he reiterates how the thinks she should always be put down, and I was surprised and thankful it didn't happen. Then again, it wasn't a decade out from X-Men Forever yet. Or maybe he just figured the company has unfair dislike toward Lorna deeply ingrained enough to his liking.

    Quote Originally Posted by whitecrown View Post
    Few writers since Claremont have ever tried to push Storm the way he did and she became seen as more his character than anyone else's. I think Marvel personally felt she had enough popularity from him that they didn't need to bother putting in any more work with her. Clearly the same couldn't be said about Lorna, but his lack of interest in her meant that other writers, building on what Claremont did, would disregard her as well. Even Havok got a slight boost in the 90s from the third Summers brother mystery which kept him relevant in the 2000s as well, because of Claremont's work in establishing what is essentially the Summers-Grey dynasty. I know he said he had plans to do more with Magneto's family such as Zaladane, but he never got around to it.
    My impression of Claremont's run was that Storm occupied the "role" of "token woman on the team." While that idea technically helped Storm at the time by cutting out perceived "competition," it's hurt her since because later people think the "token woman" should be various characters other than Storm. Those old hat ideas of women needing to compete for slim pickings are toxic and hurt not just the characters, but the stories Marvel could (and often should) tell.

    We can only really speculate as to what Claremont's ideas for Magneto's family were, but based on his track record, I doubt they would've been good for Lorna. She was probably better off with other, later writers doing that work.

    Quote Originally Posted by LordAllMIghty View Post
    It's funny how some of you guys see Claremont as disliking Lorna. I saw it as him just retiring the character and giving her a life outside of being a super-hero. I thought it was a good story for Lorna and Alex.

    When he brought her back, she was very much a part of his story. I guess it's all perspective
    There are ways to retire a character and give her a life outside of superheroing that don't require her being treated the way Claremont treated her. She didn't need to be written as trying to escape mutant affairs to a civilian life (implied as mostly cause Havok wanted her to), and she didn't need to be written as thinking like Havok's her whole universe and nothing makes her happier than cleaning the house and doing the dishes for him. Everything I've seen about Lorna's usage by Claremont has been in the service of how she could be used to make other characters look better, not what would actually be good for her or what would make sense for her to do or think given her history.

    And all that is assuming that Lorna retiring would've been appropriate for her. Lorna's a woman who went her childhood and teen years with strange green hair she regularly hid to avoid "attracting the curious." Realistically, discovering her mutant heritage would've been a liberating moment for her (and was, when first introduced), and so she would've wanted to dig in. She stopped hiding her green hair for a reason. For her to run away into an obscure civilian life was very out of character for her, and a life outside of superheroing could just as easily be something like using her powers to create works of art.

    None of this is meant as an attack on you. Your thoughts are your thoughts. I just don't see any of Claremont's decisions with the character as justified in any way. There were alternatives to how he used her.

    Quote Originally Posted by Soulsword323 View Post
    I don't think he hates her, but I don't think he really knew what to do with Polaris. A lot of his ideas just never really lead anywhere significant for the character. CC is capable of writing a good Lorna, but she's not a character he's clamoring to write IMO.
    I agree with the idea that Claremont was capable of writing a good Lorna. Where I diverge is impressions that he didn't hate her, because I really think he did. I think he started out not really caring for her, and then over time developed a hatred for her that resulted in stories where she got repeatedly used and abused to make other characters look cooler or smarter or more dangerous. By the time he was done with her, what remained was a terrible caricature that made her look like everything she's not. Literally. Down to new "powers" that conveniently had everyone hating her so hard, they were willing to die for a slim chance to kill her.

    I would feel very differently if those storylines included a heavy dose of a truly authentic Lorna, and empathy for what she went through. If it led to Marvel seeing Lorna as a character with loads of valuable history, not as Havok's girlfriend and a prop for whatever character needs to talk at her or beat her up to look good. Those storylines only hurt perception of Lorna, continuing to this day, and feeling Claremont was capable of better actually makes it worse. If I thought he was incapable, then at least I could say "Yeah it sucked but I can't fault him for not having it in him to do any better."

    Quote Originally Posted by ipanema45 View Post
    If he didn't like her, then he wouldn't have touched her at all, like Iceman.
    This assumes Claremont always had good intent toward all characters when writing them. I don't think that's the case one bit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    I think he liked her...probably not as much as Ororo or Jean...his clear favourites, but he liked her.
    He just never wrote any compelling stories in which she was the focal point.
    I actually loved her Malice arc right up until Zaladane took her powers.
    The Malice arc wasn't really Lorna, though. It was Malice using her body. You didn't see Lorna fighting with Malice inside her mind (and I mean inside, not single panel "I'm aware... oh wait now I'm not" moments), or see how people typically thought of Lorna by Malice pretending to be Lorna and manipulating people through those relationships. I think I'm rare among Lorna fans in that I'm open to the idea of mind control/possession stories and revisiting Malice, because I see potential in such stories if done right, but Claremont's approach definitely wasn't it.

    It's all reflected in how Marvel treats her today. Other characters get solos, oneshots, lead teams, have a prominent place in X-Men or Marvel events (sometimes every event), get acknowledged as meaningful X-women in the franchise. Lorna gets exploited to make Havok and other characters look good, thrown into limbo for years at a time, left off art and books meant to represent X-women, and shoved into the proverbial corner on fringe satellite books with honorary titles that don't mean anything because they never give her a huge presence on the books or let her be involved in events that actually mean something for her. Even though Marvel's not giving Storm quite what they should, they at least have the good sense to feature and use her prominently in multiple places. Lorna doesn't get any of that - because they take their cues from how Lorna was framed as a worthless character in past decades.


    Lorna would have been better off today if Claremont never wrote her.
    I can also be reached on Twitter and WordPress.

    Polaris 50th anniversary minicomic written by me and drawn by Mlad, now complete!

    Gallery of Polaris commissions (without NSFW or minicomics)

  10. #940
    BANNED ipanema45's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Posts
    32

    Default

    salarta, i do not understand you at all.
    Lorna appears to be your favourite character but reading your posts, you hate every writer that ever wrote her. Some of what you say is extremely wild and bizarre.

  11. #941

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ipanema45 View Post
    salarta, i do not understand you at all.
    Lorna appears to be your favourite character but reading your posts, you hate every writer that ever wrote her. Some of what you say is extremely wild and bizarre.
    Here's my Polaris reading list. Including as a copy and paste quote here too since I can't quote my post from a closed thread.

    This is my personal suggested reading list. Please note this list is entirely subjective and not a definitive, comprehensive list by any means.

    X-Men #49-50

    These two issues are Polaris' introductory issues from 1968. The image in my first post comes from #50. In these issues, we get a sense of Lorna as a young latent mutant whose powers are (re)awakened with a device by Mesmero. Fun fact: we learn Lorna was dyeing her hair brown to "avoid attracting the curious." These two issues are very important to understanding how Lorna entered into the Marvel/X-Men mythos and the foundation that all else about her grew out from.

    New X-Men #132

    I'm skipping decades of storylines (Malice, Zaladane, X-Factor) in making this suggestion. I feel everything else prior either treated her poorly or wasn't very interesting. Other people may feel otherwise, which is why it's worth it to check their suggestions.

    In New X-Men #132, we see Lorna in the aftermath of an attack that decimated the mutant island nation of Genosha that was run by her father Magneto. She survived where millions of others did not, and she suffered in the wreckage hearing their voices ("recorded" with her powers) until the X-Men came and pulled her out. This whole story does an excellent job of showing the weight of what Lorna went through - and why it should never be ignored or forgotten.

    Uncanny X-Men #425-426

    I suggest these two issues not for importance or even necessarily good writing (there are some problems), but more for imagery and how threatening and dangerous Lorna can be. It's a good example of a story serving her point of view, and using her connection to her father Magneto to serve her development instead of the other way around.

    Uncanny X-Men #431

    Lorna shows Professor X (and Nurse Annie) the horror of what she went through during the mutant genocide attack on Genosha via exploration of her memories from that day. Works in conjunction with New X-Men #132.

    Uncanny X-Men #442-443

    Returning to the wreckage of Genosha, Lorna has a deep philosophical debate with Professor X over the values of pacifism, and whether or not use of potentially deadly force to stop anti-mutant hate is appropriate. Lorna does an excellent one-woman job of the struggle between Xavier and Magneto philosophies, further magnified by how they're standing in Genosha's ruins and Lorna is still dealing with the trauma of what happened there.

    Civil War: House of M

    House of M was an event within the 616 universe, but HoM is effectively an alternate universe. This miniseries chronicles Magneto's rise to power in that AU. Insofar as Lorna is concerned, we get to see her interact with her family, and we also get the very first depictions of both a child Lorna using her powers and its version of Lorna's mother Susanna. The version and relation of Susanna here would be the foundation for Suzanna in X-Factor #243.

    Exiles volume #2

    Another alternate universe depiction, but I highly recommend it. The team includes teen versions of Lorna and Wanda from separate AUs, and the story takes them to an AU built around House of M. It's very fun, upbeat and playful.

    X-Factor #243

    Lorna's origin story is finally told in this issue, over 40 years after she was created. This is another crucial issue to read for her as a result.

    All-New X-Factor #1-2, #7-20

    All-New X-Factor marked Lorna getting to lead a team in her own right, rather than "filling in" as leader for other characters. I say skip #3-6 because those issues really dropped the ball hard, but #7 and after mostly started to improve treatment of her. Important issue is All-New X-Factor #14, the first and only time Lorna got to have any interaction with Wanda in a decade. Just before the forced retcon on Wanda and Pietro's parentage led to Marvel keeping them apart.

    Secret Wars: House of M

    Another alternate universe. This four-issue miniseries does very well by its version Lorna, allowing her to be commanding, intelligent and resourceful. One of my fave highlights from it is banter between Lorna and Black Cat as Lorna picks a lock with her powers, and the idea of them criming it up together. However, I have to say that it did poorly by Magneto at one point and Quicksilver/Pietro throughout.
    I can also be reached on Twitter and WordPress.

    Polaris 50th anniversary minicomic written by me and drawn by Mlad, now complete!

    Gallery of Polaris commissions (without NSFW or minicomics)

  12. #942
    BANNED ipanema45's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Posts
    32

    Default

    There's an Instagram account that I follow that does reading guides and they had a really good one for Polaris that I followed. It seemed to hit all of her high notes and it was presented well with full research!

  13. #943

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ipanema45 View Post
    There's an Instagram account that I follow that does reading guides and they had a really good one for Polaris that I followed. It seemed to hit all of her high notes and it was presented well with full research!
    I can't remember the account, but if it's the same one I'm thinking of, I also thought it was an excellent guide. It covered all the most important stories for her and explained why they're important. Their guide included some stuff I would not have included, but they seemed to approach the topic by casting a wider net. There's some comics I thought were good or at least okay but didn't think they were important enough to merit adding to the reading list (e.g. Fantastic Force, her appearance on Astonishing X-Men by Marjorie Liu, etc).

    That's in stark contrast to this "list" Marvel made which omits some extremely important content for her like New X-Men #132, yet includes stuff like Rise and Fall of the Shi'ar Empire which didn't really do anything for her. Hell, the X-Men Blue issue they cite - X-Men Blue #8 - has absolutely nothing to do with her except for her appearing on the very last page. The issue has more to do with Havok. For that reason, I consider Marvel's "list" to be a Havok reading list in disguise.

    One thing re-finding Marvel's "list" this time did though was pull up a page of 257 comics with Lorna in them. I'm about to look through it after this post. Either other issues are further down or it's not comprehensive, because the first couple pages of results are missing some issues.
    I can also be reached on Twitter and WordPress.

    Polaris 50th anniversary minicomic written by me and drawn by Mlad, now complete!

    Gallery of Polaris commissions (without NSFW or minicomics)

  14. #944
    Incredible Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Posts
    590

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by salarta View Post
    I think it's multiple issues. The second picture here is from Uncanny X-Men #376. I'm not sure where the first one's from; I think jmc knows better.






    No, Claremont's used her again about once per decade in the same way he used her during his initial run. In Black Sun, he wrote Lorna making armor around her body using her powers, only for who she was fighting to cut through it and for Lorna to suddenly act terrified of him. In X-Men Forever, he had evil Storm knock Lorna out in one shot, and later only let her "win" with the qualifiers of 1) being really really mad about Havok getting hurt, and 2) a good version of Storm was also attacking evil Storm at the same time. I honestly expected X-Men Black Magneto to be Claremont's latest decennial piece where he reiterates how the thinks she should always be put down, and I was surprised and thankful it didn't happen. Then again, it wasn't a decade out from X-Men Forever yet. Or maybe he just figured the company has unfair dislike toward Lorna deeply ingrained enough to his liking.



    My impression of Claremont's run was that Storm occupied the "role" of "token woman on the team." While that idea technically helped Storm at the time by cutting out perceived "competition," it's hurt her since because later people think the "token woman" should be various characters other than Storm. Those old hat ideas of women needing to compete for slim pickings are toxic and hurt not just the characters, but the stories Marvel could (and often should) tell.

    We can only really speculate as to what Claremont's ideas for Magneto's family were, but based on his track record, I doubt they would've been good for Lorna. She was probably better off with other, later writers doing that work.
    Thank you, I was thinking it was a Claremont issue so I can't think for the life of me which issues she was treating Havok's costume like a shrine.

    I forgot that Black Sun was written by Claremont. It pretty much never amounted to anything so it's pretty forgettable. I didn't even count X-Men Forever because she's got a bit role in it.

    Hmmm, I'm not sure Claremont believed the X-Men only needed one token woman on the team. For starters, Jean was always supposed to be on the team from the beginning but because she was written off and drawn to leave by the time Claremont got on the book, he had no choice but to continue with that. However, he brought her back as quickly as possible in UXM 97 (the same issue he uses Lorna). And she was written out of the book because of Byrne and the second she was killed off, he brought in Kitty. And while Kitty may not count as a woman because of her age, he had no issues adding Rogue, Rachel, Psylocke, and even Dazzler later on even if Dazzler was also editorially mandated. I think it was more that he felt Lorna didn't add anything he felt that Storm or Jean didn't already add to the team, nor did Marvel ever push him to use her like some other characters (Dazzler, Longshot, etc.) so he never had a reason to develop an interest in her either.

    The only thing I know about Claremont's plans for Lorna's parentage was that he confirmed that a white haired man with a magnetic personality was the father of Lorna and Zaladane so it seemed he did have some sort of idea about their connection. I would have liked to have seen the Magneto connection brought back rather than wait another decade for that to occur but not at the expense of Lorna becoming She-Hulk 2.0 though.

  15. #945
    Incredible Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Posts
    590

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LordAllMIghty View Post
    Right. He had Storm, Jean, Psylocke, Kitty, Rogue and kind of Dazzler to devolve into characters. Lorna, like Iceman, Beast, Angel where part of the old generation and he was working with a new more popular mix of characters.

    I actually liked the whole Malic possession story
    He was definitely a big fan of the first five women you listed. Not so much Dazzler although he did try to develop her even if it was at odds with how her fans perceived her in her solo. Recent posts in the Dazzler thread say that she was editorially mandated on him which is why he added her to the Outback team and his original plan was always to kill her off before he changed his mind last minute.

    This is also pretty revealing as posted in the Dazzler thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThomBoleyn View Post
    I think she was always editorially pushed on him.

    VERY RANDOM STORY: Way back in my NYC life, I was friends with one of CC's good friends and when the announcement came out about New Excalibur I was super excited and was downstairs smoking a cigarette on my lunch break and she came by on her way upstairs to the office and we talked for a minute. She saw my stack of comics and told me about her friendship with CC and then decided to call him so I could talk to him. I was handed the phone and I thanked him for all of his work on the X-Men and he asked who my favorite character was and I said "Dazzler" and that I was excited about New Excalibur.. I thought the line went dead and then he goes "...Oh.." and told me it was a pleasure speaking with me. It was awkward, to say the least.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •