Lorna Dane: Polaris Appreciation 2020

[davetvs]

If they're going to make these "classifications" (which again, they shouldn't), then they need to adhere to their own rules. Their own rules do not say "must do amazing things." They say "a mutant whose dominant power is deemed to register -- or reach -- an undefinable upper limit of that power's specific classification." Marvel's own comics have repeatedly and explicitly said her powers are to such a level that by default, if Magneto's omega, then Lorna has to be too. No assessment of "feats" needed.

The list also does not limit to only one person per category. Both Jean Grey and Quentin Quire are listed for Telepathy, so Lorna getting listed would not prevent Magneto from being listed. Objectively, Marvel's own rules say Lorna would have to be on the list even if they hate her. The only way the existing list could still work without Lorna on it is if it's a reflection of who Xavier thinks should count, not who actually does count.

An ideal situation would be that Lorna's exclusion acted as an early hint that the whole concept of omega classification is bull and it'll be torn down later, but I don't see Marvel thinking that way. Marvel has a tendency to go full nostalgia and let all else suffer for it.

A read-between-the-lines addendum: this isn't really about "is she omega." Every character can be interesting if written right, regardless of "power level." It's about a clear and obvious discrepancy. Marvel's past comics explicitly say that wherever Magneto lands, Lorna also lands. If Magneto's alpha, then Lorna's alpha. If he's omega, then Lorna should be omega. Saying Magneto is omega while Lorna isn't exposes bias, adding to the pile of evidence that's been growing for decades. It's also a clear sign that such lists aren't to be trusted or respected, since they're just nostalgic fanboy inventions of whoever's running things at the company that day.

Eh. You're clearly a superfan of the character and certainly entitled to your opinion, but if the lists are arbitrary and meaningless there's no point in arguing about who's on them. I don't care to have this discussion anymore, people who go so hard for one particular character are inevitably disappointed by something, anything, everything if they aren't constantly in the spotlight.

[salarta]

Eh. You're clearly a superfan of the character and certainly entitled to your opinion, but if the lists are arbitrary and meaningless there's no point in arguing about who's on them. I don't care to have this discussion anymore, people who go so hard for one particular character are inevitably disappointed by something, anything, everything if they aren't constantly in the spotlight.

I mean, if that's how you wanna take it then go for it I guess.

[loke13]

Quentin has never shown to do anything on the level of Xavier, yet he is considered an omega for telepathy, so that doesnt really hold up.

I mean that doesn't really matter tho? Xavier is probably the strongest Alpha type TP out there but still pales in comparison to the potential of an Omega level TP.

[LordAllMIghty]

I mean that doesn't really matter tho? Xavier is probably the strongest Alpha type TP out there but still pales in comparison to the potential of an Omega level TP.

I wouldn't be shocked, if Xavier intentionally didn't put his name on the list.

[jmc247]

I wouldn't be shocked, if Xavier intentionally didn't out his name on there list.

Xavier is not the one to ask about Lorna or her powers.



Separate from the whole classification issue I really don't need a god tier Lorna. I would be quite happy with a Lorna who doesn't do high end power feats, but a judicious mix of simple and complex ones and the ones she does in battle she does wisely and ruthlessly. Prisoner of X deserved praise for a number of things one of which was depicting Lorna as a skilled fighter and willing to punch with the gloves off. She was aggressive, but highly competent which is an effective combo we rarely see for Lorna.

When it comes to power its about how you use it in comics. The space arc for instance had a supremely powerful Lorna said to be more powerful then her compatriats who happened to be rather incompetent in one on one battles. I would much have rather had a less overall powerful Lorna for a scrapper on the ground willing to fight ruthlessly and competently instead of flailing around.

Austen's run showed an extremely powerful and competent in battle Lorna who did all sorts of complex power feats. Some of the only power feats listed in the recent video on Lorna's powers were done during his run. That is easier to do with a Lorna who is both a protagonist an antagonist to her team. It was a bit of both in that run at various points in time.

What I would say is Prisoner of X was a happy medium for a low/medium powered Lorna at least in terms of on the ground battles of being scrappy and yet throwing punches without hesitation. Though for an ongoing it would need to have some more advanced uses of electromagnetism thrown in from time to time.

[juan678]

https://mobile.twitter.com/mymonster...53999710158848

Ridiculously, *absurdly* overpowered characters: Rachel Grey

Appallingly overpowered: Northstar, Aurora, Polaris, Prodigy

Overpowered: Daken

Powered: Eye-Boy

[MechaJeanix]

Not to stir the pot or anything, but Polaris (and characters like Rachel) are very powerful and it doesn't take anything away from them that they aren't listed as omega level. Again, Xavier is super powerful and he's not omega level. Jean's tk is very powerful but it is not her omega power.

Maybe one day Lorna's power will equal or surpass Magneto's but currently that is not the case going by what Hickman has established. And that is ok becaue Lorna is still extremely powerful and her abilities are very versatile.

I still use alpha level to describe Xavier's teleapthy or Jean's telekinetic ability, and I think as an alpha mutant Polaris is awesome. I don't think we should get caught up in who is and isn't omega. Hickman has decided on his, as of now definitive list. The omega's per his script for House of X 1 lists the most powerful mutants, it is not the list of the only powerful mutants.

Just my thoughts.

[Magnetic]

Yes - Hickman's list is how I look at it. The list changes even though criteria for different classification remain largely unchanged.

[Soulsword323]

Polaris being an Alpha level mutant doesn't bother me. It doesn't mean she isn't capable of doing powerful things, and couldn't one day best Magneto himself. Emma has proven that it isn't so much power level, but skill when it comes to Mutants abilities. So I'm not getting really hung up on it.

[jmc247]

The Greek letter classification system I am not a fan of and still won't be when Lorna is eventually declared to be Omega by some writer in five or ten years. However, getting a judicious balance of power, skill and willingness to drop the hammer is an issue that is not irrelevant to me in regards to Lorna and her power.

For the past two decades

Alan Davis- Powerful, but rather incompetent with her powers. Though that was kind of the storyline point of her learning from Magneto to show a journey from incompetent with her powers to leading the Genoshan army.

Fabian Nicieza- Semi powerful, more skilled, but too emotionally weak and guy shy with using her powers.

Austen- Perhaps the perfect balance for the character as a fan, but not entirely a reasonable power and skill level for someone on a typical Earth based team. This was the closest she ever came to her fathers base line skill level at manipulating electromagnetism. Against very high end characters and solo fighting teams its good.

Milligan- Less powerful and skilled then Austen's which was ok, but not competent enough with her powers or controlled enough. Overall he played the unstable and can't control her powers card too far.

Brubaker- Immensely powerful, but way too gun shy with her powers. I actually didn't care that he had the Shi'ar rate her more powerful then Rachel or had her compress Vulcan's suit. I would have taken a huge power cut for her to use her powers with far less restraint.

Yost- Lorna with less restraint, some grand power displays like destroying whole star ships, but overall incompetent at hand to hand battle. The next two writers I didn't see her use enough of her powers in those runs to rate.

PAD- The good was her willingness to strike hard and use her powers coercively to get what she wants. The bad was that she became increasingly confined to metal bending. The other bad was I felt she was at times too hot headed in battle at times which made her come off ineffectual. PAD did better when she came off more calculating in using her powers like against DeathCap or Monet then her hot headed moments.

Bunn- More powerful and skilled then PAD's Lorna. More competent and yet more subdued then PAD's version and at times I felt too subdued.

Vita- A very strong balance for a team, less powerful then Bunn's Lorna, but more willing to be a scrapper on the ground and throw a punch without reservation and in a competent way while still being somewhat hot headed.

And, with that I am played out talking about Lorna's powers. Who is interested in seeing Hickman take another crack at writing Lorna?

[Soulsword323]

And, with that I am played out talking about Lorna's powers. Who is interested in seeing Hickman take another crack at writing Lorna?

I would.

I love what Hickman has done with her thus far. From questioning the nature of humans, attacking ORCHIS, and her conversation with Scott. It was wonderful seeing Polaris alongside not only Magneto, but Storm and Cyclops. I'm really hoping that we'll see her pop up again in X-Men, or somewhere else Hickman is writing. Really need to see more of him writing Lorna.

[houndsofluv]

I'm cautiously optimistic that we'll get to see Hickman's Lorna again during the Empyre arc. By cautiously optimistic I mean I may or may not pray on my knees every night before I nod off...
I love love love his chilly take on her. I assume Leah's Lorna is gonna be a bit more, idk, "feral" to use her words which I will gladly sink my teeth into but I don't want to let go of the Philosophically Tortured Princess fantasy I can see Hickman building

[jmc247]

Why do you think so? I have not really been able to determine where Leah's thinking with Lorna happens to be. As for the rest, I do think Hickman was setting up something in HoX. I have always believed that the events the wiped out her last mutant homeland provide an important overarching guide for the character much as most great fictional characters have an overarching life event that alters their worldview. It helps for the audience and future writers to better understand that character and puts them on a long term journey and helps provide a guide for that journey. What he plans on doing with the journey? That is in his hands one what he decides to do if anything. I will say Hickman's philosophy in his writing is one of his strengths.

[houndsofluv]

lol I only used "feral" because I think that's how Leah described the book (in a statement like "excalibur and x-factor are gonna be the most feral books or something)
I don't think Lorna's necessarily gonna take on literally feral characteristics per se, but hearing a book described as "feral" comes with an idea how characters will act, if that makes sense...
I guess I chose the most convoluted way to say I think Leah's Lorna is gonna be different from Hickman's. lol

[jmc247]

I will only say in terms of the art that X-Factor Lorna has a street level feel to her we will see what that means. I don't mind different takes on Lorna. Its not like we didn't in her space arc get wildly different takes on the character at different times. Rogue Princess Lorna among the Inhumans, Havok's girlfriend Lorna in RAFOTSE, warrior Lorna in EV, etc. However, I do think her overall goal and pathos should line up even if the character appears in more then one place at any given time.