Lorna Dane: Polaris Appreciation 2020

[AbnormallyNormal]

Anyone else think Lorna needs a long term BF (NOT ALEX!!)???

I agree with others about she doesn't need it right away but yes for her to ever really move on past him (assuming that's a goal, not everybody does want her to move past Havok, in a certain sense her bond with Havok helped give her prominence and for a lot of more casual/nostalgic fans that's still a big chunk of their perception of her which we need to think about) she is going to need to find a new romance at some point.

My personal preference is actually for it be a woman though but sure a guy would be OK as well. There are various who might work for her but I want it to be built up slowly and feel organic and for their personalities to work together - not for her to get sublimated or drawn into the guy's mentality. (Unless his mindset helps to accentuate the way forward for Lorna that I think could work lol, but still it's better for her to arrive there more independently)

They need to answer what is her raison d'etre and what purpose does she serves for the line in a general sense beyond what she does on any specific mission, team or relationship.

She was the second x-woman in the 60s after her brief stint as the dark 'queen of mutants', well the position of second x-woman is long gone and you would probably have to have to have a portrait of the top 30 X-Men before Lorna might be included these days. When it comes to a portrait of cool X-Men antagonists and sometimes antagonists Lorna isn't included period even though many of her contemporaries from her father to Emma to Jean/Phoenix are there. If she isn't an important protagonist and she isn't an important antagonist then what is she? If the answer is C list love interest character... well I don't accept that.

I think romance can only compliment the character when she already has some wider reason to exist as far as the x-line goes, but when its the only thing she has it hurts not helps her as writers stop thinking about what she might be able to do in a larger sense and write her whole character around the ship. Love interest character who gets possessed a lot was all that can be said for the character for several decades.

A lot of Polaris fans in the early to mid 2000s got excited at the idea of her being the middle ground character between Magneto and Xavier. That was a role that if Marvel came to it decades ago could have worked, but really doesn't work in the modern era as Magneto is a middle ground character already from the militant he was in the old days. Some Polaris fans as seen in that Magnus family quiz I think do have resentment toward new Magneto in part because he is in the space Lorna could fill, but what I would say to them is new Magneto is by in large here to stay.

Then what is to be had for Lorna? Either she goes back to what she was in the 90s of generic love interest character with mental health and possession issues... or the character is allowed to mark out some territory of her old 60s queen of mutants role and have some overarching goal that defines the character and allows her to guest star on other titles and gives the character a central focus for years to come.

Hickman was the first writer since the early 00s to somewhat write her outside the role she was pigeonholed in decades ago. I just hope he has an overarching plan/theme up his sleeve. Magneto has an overarching theme. Jean has an overarching theme. Emma Frost has an overarching theme. Any successful character has an overarching theme beyond who they sleep with and who they are related to.

Lot to unpack here

First of all - many fans still do view Magneto as "villain". You massively overestimate the degree to which the consensus around him is he is a middle-ground more soft type. Yeah that's how I personally view him of course but I've encountered lots of fans who view him very differently and are a lot harsher still. It's amazing to me but that's how it is. So I do think there is still a lot of story/character potential in terms of Lorna struggling with the idea of lineage/legacy. Honestly her parentage is a big reason she is a fascinating character - it's about how she lives up to or doesn't what her dad was/is all about. It shouldn't entirely define her but you shouldn't and couldn't try removing that influence either.

Now, i do agree in the Krakoa era basically "all mutants are separatists now" is kind of true. Not completely true we see with Kurt and Logan some more skepticism and there is fuzziness around the edges of this overall status quo for sure. But yes, it does take away much of Lorna's possible potency in terms of being actually in favor of Genosha, which used to be a major point of differentiation of her from most other X-Men characters.

I think the trick with her is an author can't just 180 degree make her something totally different. It has to be a process and you partly digest and have her overcome many of her past tropes along the way. Austen after all really did play up her "mental instability" route although you could argue, the mental instability was more of an excuse that Professor Xavier or others came up with to avoid facing the more difficult reality that Lorna simply has a different more militant worldview than they do at this point after her experiences. Nevertheless many fans really came off thinking "dat bitch gone cray" given how she behaved at her wedding to Havok.

Bunn had her briefly deal with being possessed again in BLUE. I will never stop promoting Bunn and BLUE haha. Honestly though, I feel like BLUE made Lorna have some dignity, some respect as a character, most fans who read her arc came off thinking she did well and served as a good leader. I don't see a problem with it, she wasn't as controversial as under Austen but she was NOT even close to as tamed as she's been like when in Space as Havok armcandy. Her streamlined team uniform on BLUE, her affectionate bond with Magneto - these are NEW innovations for her which are positives.

Hickman wrote her first as basically a very sort of "human skeptic" sort almost dismissive of humanity. Which probably rankles a lot of X-fans to be honest and makes her seem callous or like she is a "Magneto clone".

Then he has her essentially come off as either starting something up with Scott (friendship/romance) and also she apparently served as a sort of "douse of cold water" on Scott when he was going on and on about how glorious everything on Krakoa is for him and his family. Which somewhat contradicted Hickman's earlier portrayal of her, but again she's been given so little actual focus that it's very tough to even say with certainty what was intended there with her. She also worked well together with Magneto during a mission which is notable although again gets a bit too much into her being his sidekick which is not great given she is already his daughter with the exact same mutation.

Now I get into what salarta says a lot and is a great idea - authors need to show the ways Lorna uses her dad's mutant abilities *differently* than he does. This is key otherwise many fans will not be interested in her and view her as a redundant "clone". I know people will say what about Rachel, what about X-23 etc. Yes they have similarities to other more famous characters too I know but authors haver over time made differentiations both in their personalities and in their use of "the same" abilities. And also, Rachel has suffered quite badly from the overall perception of redundancy so she isn't really a good counterexample , she's more proving what Lorna's biggest problem is. Which is interesting that both Lorna, Rachel, and Daken are now all on a team together - they all can be viewed as "clones" of other more famous characters. So this team can be a chance to develop them more which is a good opportunity and a challenge as well for Leah Williams.

When you say Magneto has an overarching theme - does that not contradict what you said earlier about how he's gotten softened and made more mainstream of late? At this point how distinct really is the Magneto theme compared to the broader status quo of Krakoa?

Emma Frost theme also has gone through some contortions over the years. At this point i"m not really sure what it is , "shrewd businesswoman"? "Selfish"? "Cynical/practical?" Something like that maybe.

Jean Grey theme? That's a really tough one, her theme in 60s era was like "cute girl of team, turning into feminist icon" then in 70s/early 80s "extremely powerful, allegoric warning against becoming too powerful", mid 80s until 00s = "wholesome, mother figure of squad, powerful but restrained, love interest to Cyclops", 00s = "bit more wild" then she dies again. since her return = "kind hearted overall possible co leader of xmen, extremely powerful" and most recently since she's on xforce and on the quiet council she's shedding her past wholesome image even further and becoming more hardened it appears. So idk if Jean Grey does have any single running theme.

(Continued)

[AbnormallyNormal]

THat was a digression but the point is that it's ok for Lorna's character to have been presented differently over time, that's comics and the nature of franchise storytelling when there are different writers with different perspectives. The trick is for an author in the here and now to 1) Be knowledgeable of all this, no easy task for a character as non-prominent as Lorna 2) Show some willingness to attempt a synthesis 3) Then begin to push her into the desired direction.

For a while I've felt her best role in this status quo would be as an "Acolytes" type squad as its leader. This would be a darker version of XForce but not as undisciplined or overtly dismissive as Hellions either. More of a paramilitary/secret police, and the idea is their role and mission evolve over the course of the story and finally there's a big reveal with Moira behind them pulling strings when Krakoa itself starts to rupture into conflict etc etc. Just like how Peter David's AllNew XFactor was designed to have layers to it, and be ironic - their role as a corporate superteam was not meant to be taken at face value and you were supposed to be questioning stuff and learn more as the run continued. That kind of a dynamic plot could work great with Lorna as a more "grey" character. She might even need to end up attacking Havok by the end etc, there's so much you can do with it, and it would be like she is not cynical or disillusioned necessarily she simply has a new dream or ideals which are just distinct from or not understood by the other more mainstream mutants

[jmc247]

These are excellent points, jmc247.
I'm really eager to see where Leah takes her in X-Factor.

Also, if anyone feels like humoring me:

WHO is Lorna close to? Who are her friends? Who does she confide in? Who, if anyone, do you think she has a grudge against or clashes with?

Thanks.

Lorna and Magneto's relationship varied between all business (one or two decades ago) and light, but irrelevant banter under Bunn. House of X was the first time their conversation had any depth and it actually got fans talking about her. There is little worse for Lorna then the norm of fans generally liking her, but not feeling she is worth talking about.

Lorna and Quicksilver and Lorna and Bobby clashed a lot in the old days. I have my doubts we will see Lorna interact with Bobby in any significant way again and for Lorna/Quicksilver that has to wait until a retcon comes down.

Lorna had a lot of tertiary relationships on her various stints on X-Factor and in various runs including that were never actually developed with any real depth. Think Lorna and Wolverine having witty banter under Austen.

Lorna and Jean- Lorna's closest long term female relationship and the Maid of Honor at Lorna's failed wedding. In the Claremont era through 90s they fell on hard times as writers couldn't really answer what makes them interacting interesting. Morrison and Austen attempted to right that ship by using Genosha and Lorna's more open and militant views to give it some flare, but then Jean died and Lorna was regressed and their relationship forgotten about.

When you say Magneto has an overarching theme - does that not contradict what you said earlier about how he's gotten softened and made more mainstream of late? At this point how distinct really is the Magneto theme compared to the broader status quo of Krakoa?

Magneto's overarching theme now- he fights for the rights of mutants and will go to extremes if he feels it is necessary.

Magneto's old overarching theme- power drunk madman who wants to rule all mutants and humans. The new theme of Magneto allows him to be a hero or villain whenever the situation arises where his and the X-Men's interests align or differ and that is not going away.

[houndsofluv]

if anyone feels like humoring me:

WHO is Lorna close to? Who are her friends? Who does she confide in? Who, if anyone, do you think she has a grudge against or clashes with?

In my mind her and Rachel are fairly close. Apart from that .... yikes she needs some friends lol. So far in the current status quo her and Magneto seem really close , and I hope her burgeoning friendship/allyship with Scott that Hickman seemed to be setting up gets explored further . Leah's been hyping up X-Factor as having a heavy focus on interpersonal relationships and theres tons upon tons of interesting ground to be broken in that department with Lorna

[Soulsword323]

Lorna desperately needs the opportunity to move on romantically. So many other characters get to, but Lorna is one of the few who has not. Polaris still needs a lot more time focused on her as an individual first, but before writers pair her back up with the same old, they need to have her explore another romance. It's something I hope we see one day.

Outside of Havok, Magneto, and Quicksilver, I'd say she's closet to the second wave of X-Factor. Multiple Man, Strong Guy, and Wolfsbane. Val Cooper too, seeing as how they worked together for awhile. I'm not a big fan of Lorna being the "Mom" of the group, but I do enjoy the big sister vibe she has with Rahne. It works IMO.

As for adversaries, I'd say Sinister, and the Marauders. Lorna should have a lot of animosity with that group, and we've seen some writers address that. In the 90s when she was forced to work with Sabretooth, and Bunn did once again when she interacted with Riptide (in his Magneto series). There's an interesting dynamic that most writers haven't tapped into, and that is that Polaris was the Marauder's leader (obviously against her will), and they seem to have some level of respect for her. A lot of tension there.

[jmc247]

In my mind her and Rachel are fairly close. Apart from that .... yikes she needs some friends lol. So far in the current status quo her and Magneto seem really close , and I hope her burgeoning friendship/allyship with Scott that Hickman seemed to be setting up gets explored further . Leah's been hyping up X-Factor as having a heavy focus on interpersonal relationships and theres tons upon tons of interesting ground to be broken in that department with Lorna

One can create a head cannon about her relationships with a lot of characters like Rachel who they were on the same team on for five years or Daken or a lot of other characters.

Lorna's interpersonal problem is without a theme baked into the character she tends to spend her days talking about other characters. In space with Rachel it was talking about Havok. In X-Men #1 it was talking about Magneto, Havok, and letting Scott pontificate on his own situation. In X-Men Blue and her past two stints on X-Factor with only a few exceptions it was talking about other characters as well.

Once you have what Lorna represents on a larger scale then I think writers will have a guide on how to write Lorna with other characters that doesn't fall into a living breathing example of why the Bechdel test should exist. That is why the question what Lorna is for matters.

[jmc247]

I will say of Lorna's various teams she has been on over the years her relationship with the Acolytes is comparatively unmined gold. Her relationships with any of them haven't really been referred to since before the island was destroyed. Many of them are around now including Cortez who Lorna interacted with a little and Exodus who she interacted with not at all. Her return to Genosha might help open up that door. One could imagine very interesting relationships to be had there. Her relationships with the Acolytes can harken back to her feelings on mutant rights, Genosha, Magneto, and quite a few other things.

When her relationships aren't build around a larger theme they turn into tertiary things that last for a few years and then because era specific trivia unless they become baked into the character as Lorna and Pietro's relationship was at least until Axis.

I personally think Lorna needs a foil for her character. Someone we have not seen her interact with before either at all or very little. I don't see any of the ex Marauders working in that role. This is a place where to look at her father some of the same big ideas work. The frenemy... good friends where different views sometimes arise. The straight foil (or Lorna's Red Skull) which represents everything that Lorna hates most.

[salarta]

Anyone else think Lorna needs a long term BF (NOT ALEX!!)???

No. Marvel in the past 10 years has shown in her prominent non-Havok interactions with men that they find it very difficult to imagine her having any kind of dynamic with men that doesn't at least initially repeat the exact same problems as how they treat her with Havok. The sole exception being Pietro.

My preference is Lorna with women, but that's also contingent on Marvel not treating that dynamic as "she's dating Havok but with boobs now."

Also, if anyone feels like humoring me:

WHO is Lorna close to? Who are her friends? Who does she confide in? Who, if anyone, do you think she has a grudge against or clashes with?

There's a difference between who Lorna should be close to and have grudges/clashes with, and who Marvel thinks she should.

The short of it for the latter is Marvel doesn't seem to think she should have any relationships outside of Havok. Anything else being fleeting, and primarily characters Marvel sees as "lower tier equals" like Rachel, Daken, Danger, teen version of Angel (but of course not teen Jean or teen Iceman who she had actual good reasons to interact with), etc.

For the former, Lorna should be close to Jean and Iceman. She was friends with Jean before Storm, and the second woman to join the team. She was a "love interest" for Iceman back then too, and therefore has special insights into that background which can inform and play to Iceman's being gay now.

Of course, Lorna should have heavy interaction with Wanda and Pietro. That's a given, and the fact Marvel kept Lorna out of Axis says to me even more that the retcon should be ignored. Otherwise you'd think someone would've told Lorna about it when she showed up to one of Pietro's birthday parties over the past 5-6 years.

As for grudges and clashes, jmc's previously mentioned Cassandra Nova and I agree with his suggestion and points for it. Cassandra caused the Genoshan genocide after all. Lorna could have a "friendly" rivalry with Emma Frost as well. In interactions, you'd expect Lorna to have friction with both Vulcan and Apocalypse - Vulcan for torturing her in space, Apocalypse for taking her against her will and turning her into Pestilence (although I could see Lorna having complicated feelings there; Apocalypse did restore her powers after all). I think bringing back Zaladane is possible, but not any time in the next decade since Marvel in its current state clearly can't handle it. Requires more thought, care and analysis than Marvel's been willing to offer Lorna. Save it for a time when there are people around who can actually make the most of it (and Lorna).

[jmc247]

As for grudges and clashes, jmc's previously mentioned Cassandra Nova and I agree with his suggestion and points for it. Cassandra caused the Genoshan genocide after all. Lorna could have a "friendly" rivalry with Emma Frost as well. In interactions, you'd expect Lorna to have friction with both Vulcan and Apocalypse - Vulcan for torturing her in space, Apocalypse for taking her against her will and turning her into Pestilence (although I could see Lorna having complicated feelings there; Apocalypse did restore her powers after all).

Cassandra Nova is certainly the best option for a mutant nemesis. Vulcan has clearly had his mind 'fixed' and was really Havok and Scott's family nemesis in the first place. Poccy is complicated and even moreso if one takes up Milligan's heavy implication that he was holding out for Lorna to say yes and that she did off panel to be changed in exchange for the return of her powers. There is potential there for storylines, but it would be as I said complicated.

Yes, Lorna should be close with Jean. I am a fan of them having a conflicted relationship because I witnessed the off and on attempts to make them best buds and know its never energized writers to depict them together while they came to increasingly salivate over writing her Emma.

I would agree Emma Frost is a good choice for a friendly rivalry relationship though on very different terms then Jean/Emma. I generally think she needs a human foil too as she had with though preferably someone far smarter then Nurse Annie. Someone that represents the dark side of humanity.

I think if you take a macro level look at Lorna's character as a genocide survivor that has been burned by life any number of ways and has trust issues, but is very good with politics and has a youthful energy about her... then writers have a lot to work with. If you keep in mind that macro view and don't fall into either nostalgia or writing her to benefit Havok you have a lot to go with.

DnA in War of Kings had a theme in their head for Lorna and they even listed it in interviews... rogue princess. It guided her relationships with the Inhumans and even though Lorna wasn't the POV character (that was Crystal) it was an amazing depiction of her which was only undermined when she was away from the Inhumans and became 'the girlfriend'. This is sort of what I mean when I say theme. Hickman had a bit of a damaged warrior princess motif going in House of X and that I think can be a workable overriding theme for the character as well.

Lorna's space arc was an example of a lot of versions of Lorna showing up with no central guiding core concept that all of them follow.

Brubaker- Claremont and first run PAD's girlfriend Lorna which a very generic characterization who needs her boyfriend and Xavier to tell her the right things to do.
Yost- This was a more JM's X-Factor like warrior girlfriend Lorna.
DnA- Rogue Princess Lorna. This was a Lorna with something akin to Austen's personality and shrewdness.
Carey's Lorna- This was really half Magneto's daughter and half Havok's girlfriend Lorna. Probably the time she was on Genosha is the closest parallel.

[salarta]

I would agree Emma Frost is a good choice for a friendly rivalry relationship though on very different terms then Jean/Emma. I generally think she needs a human foil too as she had with though preferably someone far smarter then Nurse Annie. Someone that represents the dark side of humanity.

I've got a soft spot for looking deeper from a writerly perspective at characters often maligned or poorly treated and giving them more considerate, thoughtful depictions. To that end, I think Nurse Annie could qualify. I think Austen largely set her up as a character to be batted around for story rather than one with her own will. A different writer stepping in could give her more to work with based on the foundation set by Austen.

I think if you take a macro level look at Lorna's character as a genocide survivor that has been burned by life any number of ways and has trust issues, but is very good with politics and has a youthful energy about her... then writers have a lot to work with. If you keep in mind that macro view and don't fall into either nostalgia or writing her to benefit Havok you have a lot to go with.

On the politics and youthful energy note, it's worthwhile to consider real world analogy. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is considered young and highly energetic and motivated as a politician, and she's 30 years old. Perception of Lorna's age hovers between mid 20s and mid 30s. This means Lorna's still fully able to take the youth angle at her age. She's at the right crossroads between "teenage rebellion" and "elder statesman/ruler" types. She could easily be an AOC type, questioning the established order and common assumptions of "the way it should be" with popular support from younger mutants. Not to mention, would be highly appropriate and intriguing in the current political climate.

[jmc247]

High Quality alternate DS cover in the Eve of Destruction trade.



There exists a line of argument that either she is either the team mom meaning green haired Jean or her father and I don't buy the line. There is not a lot of unique set of mutant rights ideas out there. But, how she executes her ideas and the underlying theme can be uniquely Lorna.

I do think Lorna as more of a political firebrand to her father's established elder authority could work yes.

[danielsan52]

They need to answer what is her raison d'etre and what purpose does she serves for the line in a general sense beyond what she does on any specific mission, team or relationship.

She was the second x-woman in the 60s after her brief stint as the dark 'queen of mutants', well the position of second x-woman is long gone and you would probably have to have to have a portrait of the top 30 X-Men before Lorna might be included these days. When it comes to a portrait of cool X-Men antagonists and sometimes antagonists Lorna isn't included period even though many of her contemporaries from her father to Emma to Jean/Phoenix are there and Lorna has been in no shortage of antagonist teams. If she isn't an important protagonist and she isn't an important antagonist then what is she? If the answer is C list love interest character... well I don't accept that.

I think romance can only compliment the character when she already has some wider reason to exist as far as the x-line goes, but when its the only thing she has it hurts not helps her as writers stop thinking about what she might be able to do in a larger sense and write her whole character around the ship. Love interest character who gets possessed a lot was all that can be said for the character for several decades.

A lot of Polaris fans in the early to mid 2000s got excited at the idea of her being the middle ground character between Magneto and Xavier. That was a role that if Marvel came to it decades ago could have worked, but really doesn't work in the modern era as Magneto is a middle ground character already from the militant he was in the old days. Some Polaris fans as seen in that Magnus family quiz I think do have resentment toward new Magneto in part because he is in the space Lorna could fill, but what I would say to them is new Magneto is by in large here to stay. Almost all the other X-Men have moved into more of a 'middle ground' position already as well.

Then what is to be had for Lorna? Either she goes back to what she was in the 90s of generic love interest character with mental health and possession issues... or the character is allowed to mark out some territory of her old 60s queen of mutants role and have some overarching goal that defines the character and allows her to guest star on other titles and gives the character a central focus for years to come.

Hickman was the first writer since the early 00s to somewhat write her outside the role she was pigeonholed in decades ago. I just hope he has an overarching plan/theme up his sleeve. Magneto has an overarching theme. Jean has an overarching theme. Emma Frost has an overarching theme. Any successful character has an overarching theme beyond who they sleep with and who they are related to.

Yes. The second X-Woman ever (I’m not counting Sage) should be way more prominent than she is.

She’s had her moments but has never shined like Storm, Jean , or even Rogue.

Rogue and Gambit complement each other. Alex and Lorna don’t anymore.

I’d like to see her with Changeling or Mimic.

[gambitxremy]

I’m shipping for cyclops and Lorna

[Will Evans]

I will say of Lorna's various teams she has been on over the years her relationship with the Acolytes is comparatively unmined gold. Her relationships with any of them haven't really been referred to since before the island was destroyed. Many of them are around now including Cortez who Lorna interacted with a little and Exodus who she interacted with not at all. Her return to Genosha might help open up that door. One could imagine very interesting relationships to be had there. Her relationships with the Acolytes can harken back to her feelings on mutant rights, Genosha, Magneto, and quite a few other things.

When her relationships aren't build around a larger theme they turn into tertiary things that last for a few years and then because era specific trivia unless they become baked into the character as Lorna and Pietro's relationship was at least until Axis.

I personally think Lorna needs a foil for her character. Someone we have not seen her interact with before either at all or very little. I don't see any of the ex Marauders working in that role. This is a place where to look at her father some of the same big ideas work. The frenemy... good friends where different views sometimes arise. The straight foil (or Lorna's Red Skull) which represents everything that Lorna hates most.

This is why they need to bring back Zaladane.

[LordAllMIghty]

I’m shipping for cyclops and Lorna

I could go for Lorna and Wonder Man pairing. The daughter of Magneto dating a non-mutant would be interesting.