Lorna Dane: Polaris Appreciation 2020

[jmc247]

I reread ANXF recently right before my old 12.9 iPad died for good - much like this pairing. I enjoyed their way too short flirtation.

I enjoyed their banter as well. The mistake with their relationship was going for a 1980s or 90s speed build. No comic these days is going to get fifty issues to build up to a ship. I think Lorna could have used some of her early 00s era assertiveness there. Even Wolverine and the X-Men teenage Lorna was more assertive when it came to what she wanted with him.

I will say your comment got me to look at my old Ipad I hadn't touched in years and my X-Men Days of Future Past game still works. Its been six years since she has been in a computer game.







Fans of current games like Future Fight have had their voices heard that they know Lorna is being screwed in games.

Its actually been House of M/Magnus family fans that have been the most vocal in trying to get her into games.

[Will Evans]

Forever team Polaris/Gambit.

Polaris/Gambit and Rogue/Magento would be the ultimate polyamory.

[salarta]

Now that we're talking about Polaris and Gambit, I find it interesting that there was so much of an uproar to Rogue and Magneto as a couple with insistence that Rogue and Gambit are meant to be together, but that attitude didn't seem to exist over Lorna and Gambit on X-Factor. Unless I missed the talk somehow, then it leads to questions.

Were people more open to Gambit with Lorna because they saw Lorna as more ideologically more aligned with him, vs thinking Rogue and Magneto are too ideologically distant? Did they think Lorna wasn't a threat to promotion of Gambit, whereas they saw Magneto as a threat to Rogue (or vice versa)? Did they only really care about Rogue, and not really about Gambit?

I don't think there's necessarily "a right answer" to any of these questions. Yet I think they're worth pondering.

[Havok83]

Now that we're talking about Polaris and Gambit, I find it interesting that there was so much of an uproar to Rogue and Magneto as a couple with insistence that Rogue and Gambit are meant to be together, but that attitude didn't seem to exist over Lorna and Gambit on X-Factor. Unless I missed the talk somehow, then it leads to questions.

Were people more open to Gambit with Lorna because they saw Lorna as more ideologically more aligned with him, vs thinking Rogue and Magneto are too ideologically distant? Did they think Lorna wasn't a threat to promotion of Gambit, whereas they saw Magneto as a threat to Rogue (or vice versa)? Did they only really care about Rogue, and not really about Gambit?

I don't think there's necessarily "a right answer" to any of these questions. Yet I think they're worth pondering.

Im pretty sure most people didnt read X-Factor and whatever flirtation they had, it ultimtely went nowhere. I love the possibility of Gambit and Lorna even before X-Factor, but they arent a big ship. The more popular you are, the more vocal the haters that you get and they dont really register on most people's radar

[jmc247]

Rogue/Gambit was an immensely popular ship in the early 90s which major writers like Milligan promoted in the '00s as well. I will say it fell into the same recycled plot threads problem and in the end much like a relationship we all know too well here ended up dragging one of the characters (Gambit) down. They went on a long hiatus and feel fresh for now for many fans, but I predict it will fall into the same problems in not too long.

Rogue/Magneto actually was a very popular ship as well which got its start in the late Claremont era and was played up all throughout the 90s of reformed bad girl tries to change the X-Men's #1 antagonist. The main problem Marvel has in terms of Rogue/Magneto as a ship is these companies love their merchandise and its not the short of ship I could imagine Disney selling merch to their target market with.

Both Rogue/Gambit and Rogue/Magneto were real ships with characters with decades of backstory and development on the main x-titles. Rogue and Magneto had big character arcs together in arcs labeled must read so they end up getting read and re-read by legions of comic fans like the Savage Land arc. Lorna and Gambit had some flirtation's that went nowhere on a low selling satellite title.

I will say beyond the Gambit issue Lorna needs some close and conflicted relationships (when it makes sense and isn't forced) on core titles and in big story arcs and crossovers. Fans say they hate it and complain about it, but it gets them talking and buying comics and that is what matters.

Rogue/Magneto was popular enough a ship to be perceived as a threat to Rogue/Gambit shippers and they got loud to protect their ship. It wasn't about philosophy of Magneto or Rogue it was about shipper wars. Rogue and Magneto will be back in time doing their dance. It might be like the Savage Land, it might be like Fatal Attractions, or something entirely different, but it will happen marriage or no marriage. Marvel likes conflict and Rogue/Magneto/Gambit has conflict of all sorts baked in. It was never far away even in the lagoon scene.



I think Rogue/Gambit fans didn't come down on Gambit/Polaris as they gauged it as not a threat to their ship. ANXF at the time was a low selling comic that other writers didn't take cues from nor really care about and acted as if it was in its own universe.

[Wiccan]

Now that we're talking about Polaris and Gambit, I find it interesting that there was so much of an uproar to Rogue and Magneto as a couple with insistence that Rogue and Gambit are meant to be together, but that attitude didn't seem to exist over Lorna and Gambit on X-Factor. Unless I missed the talk somehow, then it leads to questions.

Were people more open to Gambit with Lorna because they saw Lorna as more ideologically more aligned with him, vs thinking Rogue and Magneto are too ideologically distant? Did they think Lorna wasn't a threat to promotion of Gambit, whereas they saw Magneto as a threat to Rogue (or vice versa)? Did they only really care about Rogue, and not really about Gambit?

I don't think there's necessarily "a right answer" to any of these questions. Yet I think they're worth pondering.

A considerable part of it is sexism. For example, a lot of Scott fans were fine with Scemma, but would consider Jean and Logan getting together as an attack against Scott. Recently on tumblr I've seen a lot of fights on the Jonerys(Jon/Daenerys from GOT) fandom, where Jon fans consider offensive to write Daenerys having sex with other male characters.

Then there's the fact that Magneto is much older than Rogue, while there's no big age gap between Gambit and Lorna. And that Magneto, even being aligned with X-Men many times, will always be known as a villain while that's not the case for Lorna. And as Havok83 said, that Rogneto just got more attention in general and the title they got together on sold more.

[Lucyinthesky]

Rogue and Magneto were married with children on AoA and other two AU, this makes them look like a more serious competition while Lorna and Gambit only had interactions on the Wolverine and the X-men cartoon and All New X-factor both times it was mostly flirtation between them, I think it would have been different if they actually got out together as a pairing when they were both on the X-men title for example, I think that would have gotten more attention. Given Havok got to have a daguhter with Wasp I think it´s only fair to let Lorna have a serious relationship with another character.

I personally didn´t like much when Mike Carey put Magneto and Rogue together, fandom became way too toxic because of that and Mike Carey himself was badly threated as a writer as a result of that despite being a really brilliant writer so at the moment I am happy to see them appart, I would just like to see Magneto with either Briar or someone else but right now I would like to see the retcon fixed most of all.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

Though in AoA that only happened after Magneto stabbed Gambit in the back and started dating Rogue when she was borderline underage, not to mention how Rogue changed to fit with Magneto in the more recent runs, I'm not a fan of Rogue and Magneto or Lorna and Gambit, for obvious reasons that everyone here already knows, but I think that in the recent X-Factor they didn't get the same hate because nothing actually happened and some fans made much more out of it than actually happened, perhaps it would have been different had something actually happened between them past a platonic kiss if memory serves...

[Lucyinthesky]

As I said,I am not really a fan of Magneto/Rogue but I liked the interactions they had on the AoA world, I think AoA was good for Rogue in the sense that it was the first time I saw her as a leader of the X-men, actually doing a good job of it and she also seemed all around more mature than her 90´s counterpart, and on the main marvel universe I appreciate them as kind of friends who fight a lot, not as lovers. But even as friends I think Storm is closer to him than Rogue most of the time.

I still think it would be interesting to see Lorna in a really serious relationship different from Havok´s, I think that would help to see other sides of her personality, maybe something like the one she had on the gifted series.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

Well part of that show as it was an entirely different reality so the two Lorna's are VERY different and Alex wasn't even in that show so a lot was different, and I remember the previews when they had Alex and Wanda hugging and some thought that they were going to be paired together, only meaning that some fans have tended to jump the gun on things when it involves one or more of their favorite characters...in AoA Rogue grew up with Magneto using his abilities so that he was the only one that could touch her, after stabbing Gambit in the back to do it...and in the end even though he and Rogue shared a child she never stopped loving Remy, so much so that Magneto kept trying to get Gambit killed as often as possible. As a side note I don't remember Alex really having any really serious relationships besides Lorna either, that whole thing with Wasp has now basically been like it never happened...

And in AoA Rogue only lead because most of the X-Men that would have lead were in different roles, so that she wasn't leading instead of them but rather in the vacuum left by them not being there, there is a difference...

[Magnetic]

What exactly are you saying?

[jmc247]

Rogue and Magneto were married with children on AoA and other two AU, this makes them look like a more serious competition while Lorna and Gambit only had interactions on the Wolverine and the X-men cartoon and apart from All New X-factor and both times it was mostly flirtation between them, I think it would have been different if they actually got out together as a pairing when they were both on the X-men title for example, I think that would have gotten more attention.

I didn't think about AoA, but you were right they were upfront in a really major crossover as a couple as well. Even after Magneto turned against the X-Men in the 90s writers kept the ship alive by having her try to 'save him' in just about every major arc he went through including Genosha.



For Lorna I still think Wolverine and Lorna in the early 00s would have made quite the couple if Marvel pulled the cord on it as they were building up to in X-Men Reload out on the 20th of this month. There was a clear outline to the relationship of Wolverine being hot for the daughter of the man he hates most and for Lorna it gave her a potential romantic interest/foil with a different prospective. Though a decade and a half later I can't see it working as it might have back then because Wolverine and Magneto's relationship has totally shifted into old enemies turned friends.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

I think that if fans want much for Lorna she needs to be away from Magneto, and no I don't expect her and Alex to be a couple or on the same team in the near future, X-Factor could be it though that remains to be seen...

[Lucyinthesky]

Over the Avengers titles Wasp still remembers their daughter and it´s very affected by her dissapareance, that was also part of the reason why post Axis, despite no longer being inverted Alex still feels badly for how things ended between him and wasp, imo I think for both the Avengers and X-office this relationship really did happen and was important for both characters imo.

I would like to see how Lorna and Eclipse would look on the 616 but only after she we get a sense of how Leah will writer her on X-factor, from the images I saw it seems she´s taking some clues from the Gifted story.

About Rogue I disagree, I think she was actually a pretty interesting and not traditional X-men leader enough that part of her leadership style got used for the Uncanny Avengers run.
I disagree with you that AoA Magneto tried to kill Gambit given they mostly break their friendship and mostly didn´t see each other until he asked him to get the Mkraan crystal and at that point the AoA X-men knew most of them would probably not make it, Magneto included.

fans of Magneto/Rogue's biggest enemy is two fold. He tends to be artistically rendered at least a decade older then I suspect Marvel would like for merch for a couple. De-aged Magneto in his 20s in the 1990s was a depiction of the age I suspect Marvel as a company would prefer. But the character had none of Magneto's depth and was 'explained away' as just a clone. The second problem is the early 90s super fan who doesn't want stories to progress from their nostalgia. All the rest are minor issues in my view.

Agreed but now we have to add the new baggage from Mike Carey´s run and I just see really complicated that a writer will try to go there again. Of course marvel could still do it for the drama

For Lorna I still think Wolverine and Lorna in the early 00s would have made quite the couple if Marvel pulled the cord on it as they were building up to in X-Men Reload out on the 20th of this month. There was a clear outline to the relationship of Wolverine being hot for the daughter of the man he hates most and for Lorna it gave her a potential romantic interest/foil with a different prospective. Though a decade and a half later I can't see it working the way it did back then because Wolverine and Magneto's has totally shifted.

Agreed and wolvie is now in a quasi relationship with Jean, I can´t see him chaging that anytime soon. I actually like that Magneto and Logan are kind of talking again before Fatal Attractions they used to be kind of close when Magneto was headmaster, they just get each other but FA was a deal breaker for both of them until recently.

It helped Lorna when Magneto was the leader of the counterpoint faction. With the X-Men as his team/allies it leaves Lorna just kind of lurking around without anything to do amongst the X-Men because writers have been mortified at writing her as more strident then wherever he happens to be at a given time.

I don´t think she needs to be strident, what she needs is to be given her own voice as a result of her story and go from there, I kind of see her like Pietro, a character that has so many different experiences, they are kind of in between characters but when the focus is on them they can surprise for their depth.

[jmc247]

Art by Manu_jammin

I would like to see how Lorna and Eclipse would look on the 616 but only after she we get a sense of how Leah will writer her on X-factor, from the images I saw it seems she´s taking some clues from the Gifted story.

I don't know at all what Leah thinks of Lorna. Kind of funny because I have a good idea her general view of Rachel, Daken, etc. In terms of taking cues from anything in particular I don't see it as yet.

In terms of Eclipse/Lorna that would take too much work to create a new character and establish him. I will only say that first season Eclipse/Lorna was a relationship done right with Lorna and Eclipse both stubborn people with their own belief system who care deeply about one another.

They screwed up royally in season 2 and torched the ship in my eyes and it wasn't just me the popularity online of the ship cratered because they weren't honest with their issues and tried to bypass what was separating them by trying to retroactively say Lorna was the puppet of some character who wasn't thought up when season one came out.

With Rogue and Magneto they never tried to chicken out on what Magneto believed nor what she believed which in the end separated the two of them, but made them a pretty strong relationship if one likes them together or hates them. I think with Lorna and Gambit in ANXF PAD tried to depict them philosophically divided, but Lorna came off too much as 'unstable' which was a common problem in the 90s when they tried to interject conflict between Havok and Lorna.

Frankly I think Lorna should post X-Factor either try things out with one of the core cast who is available. In the best cases is someone with a very different worldview then her. I wouldn't mind a political relationship... think Caesar and Cleopatra or Hades and Persephone.

Anyway comments from the X-Factor artist.