Lorna Dane: Polaris Appreciation 2020

[salarta]

I see Lorna being written around other characters with those characters grounding her, as Lorna being held back on her potential. Jean's whole Phoenix concept generally isn't perceived by the public as "she needs Cyclops to ground her or else she'll go haywire" after all. It's presented as Jean having tons and tons of power to a point where she can be dangerous.

I do think Lorna's character and various aspects of her can be revealed by her interactions with other characters. However, it's a matter of how those interactions are written. Secret Wars: House of M did well in showing Lorna as a smart, tough warrior leader type (though it didn't do well by Pietro, and at times Magneto) because her relationships didn't hold her back from expressing her own views, using her powers in her own ways, or being respected for taking charge of situations. Whereas most of the time, Marvel seems to think Lorna interacting with others (especially men, particularly Havok) requires her to subsume herself and put herself entirely "in their service" for their sake.

Reasons can be given to retroactively explain "here's why she was all about being Havok's girlfriend," but I think that's a lost cause and holds her back from her potential in the comics. All it really does in my opinion is remind everyone how badly she's been treated in the past and result in people at Marvel wanting to make that the entire focus of their writing of her. Usually with a goal of making the character opposite of Lorna look good. Something I think we saw quite readily in Marvel's attempts to force Havok on her in various ways throughout 2017-2019.

Instead, the focus should be on doing all the things Marvel hasn't been doing but should have been for the past 50 years (when they became applicable): utilizing her history with Genosha, letting her spend time with Jean and Iceman again and using their history, having the fact she was the second woman to join the X-Men actually mean something, restoring the twins and letting the family do things together (particularly Lorna and Wanda as sisters), exploring powers and how Lorna might use them in her own ways (especially considering her Masters degree), etc. Those things don't need Marvel to try and go "You know, Lorna being written as a damsel that locks herself in an apartment and obsesses over a man's costume is good, actually."

[jmc247]

The situation that WATXM the animated series, House of M and its many minis and even to a lesser extent Genosha created for Lorna was because Magneto and his family were a key part of the story as the foil for the protagonists. They were a key faction with built in drama.

House of M is one of the parts of Krakoa in HoX #1. But, unlike the Summers habitat the Magnus family doesn't feel like a real bloc on the island. Its not that Lorna and Magneto haven't spent a bit of time together. Its just feels very different then in previous versions when Magneto was a faction head and Lorna was a clear part of that faction. Magneto right now isn't the head of the faction of aggressive and more militant mutants on the island that feels like Exodus and others. Magneto aruging for an aggressive posture against humans or even vengence against mutant killers.

We will see what Hickman/Williams comes up with this Summer/Fall for Lorna, but generally HoX has a families/faction feel that would be awesome if the Magnus family was a faction that represented something, but if that is the intention we aren't there yet for the House of M habitat.

[Lucyinthesky]

Alan Davis was the one writer when she was on Genosha of unarguably having her want to be there to make a difference in my view. After he left because it was a collaborative story some writers tried to retcon her reasons for being there explaining that she was there to look for Havok or because she was addicted to Magneto's power. In the encyclopedia's of the 2001-2002 time frame they tried to explain it away that she was there to 'watch' Magneto. I will say when she was there it was clear they were repeating Lorna's first storyline down to the Magneto/Bobby/Lorna arguments. The family stuff was implicitly baked into the story, but not explicitly when she was there.



It was after that the family stuff was more explicitly and a bit retroactively baked into the story. It was also Morrison and Austen that both kind of indelibly connected Lorna to the island and the idea that she believed in the dream of a mutant homeland before it turned to dust. Not she was there to find Havok or there to 'watch' Magneto.

Well I suppose I got Alan Davis meaning from her time on Genosha, good thing I didnt read the others writers intend behind it, still imo I can tell you from interactions with other fans at the time most of them didn´t see any kind of family relationship between Lorna and Magneto in fact that was part of the reason why it was hard to sell them as family after it was revealed, the writers can have certain intention but it doesn´t always traslates to the story the way they want to.

The fun thing about HoM on Krakoa is that it´s becoming a intermediate level between the kind of mutants like Apocalypse, Mr Sinister, Mystique and the X-men, Xavier with Moira as a third actor. In an argument between Apocalypse and Xavier or Mystique and Xavier Magneto actumatically becomes the intermediate pov because he understands both pov´s, this gives HoM a not so flashy part on Krakoa but it becomes essential in keeping the status quo together, which I see has become Magneto´s main priority lately.

I don´t think Lorna needs to take that position, neither does she need to be a leader like she was on Genosha to shine on her own, imo what she needs is time and stories to develop her own voice without the Havok´s or Magneto baggage and go from there. So I want to wait and see what Leah is going to do with her on X-factor.

[jmc247]

Well I suppose I got Alan Davis meaning from her time on Genosha, good thing I didnt read the others writers intend behind it, still imo I can tell you from interactions with other fans at the time most of them didn´t see any kind of family relationship between Lorna and Magneto in fact that was part of the reason why it was hard to sell them as family after it was revealed, the writers can have certain intention but it doesn´t always traslates to the story the way they want to.

Except Alan Davis was recreating Lorna and Magneto's original relationship from the 60s which was as much as Silver Age Magneto could do as a father which was build her up as a heir. If you are looking at Magneto from the prospective of a Magneto redemption fan and him as the good father he was to Anya then his interaction with Lorna is pretty abhorrent. Davis was recreating the 60s themes down to the Magneto/Bobby/Lorna tug of war and Magneto helping her lead when he was injured.




It was pretty obvious they were grouping Lorna with Wanda and Pietro on Genosha as well, but didn't want to pull the trigger.

The fun thing about HoM on Krakoa is that it´s becoming a intermediate level between the kind of mutants like Apocalypse, Mr Sinister, Mystique and the X-men, Xavier with Moira as a third actor. In an argument between Apocalypse and Xavier or Mystique and Xavier Magneto actumatically becomes the intermediate pov because he understands both pov´s, this gives HoM a not so flashy part on Krakoa but it becomes essential in keeping the status quo together, which I see has become Magneto´s main priority lately.

I don´t think Lorna needs to take that position, neither does she need to be a leader like she was on Genosha to shine on her own, imo what she needs is time and stories to develop her own voice without the Havok´s or Magneto baggage and go from there. So I want to wait and see what Leah is going to do with her on X-factor.

There is no House of M faction on Krakoa. There is only Magneto as yet. I am not going to badmouth X-Factor though I am not at all a fan of Lorna being on the title for the half dozenth run if she is going to be mother hen of the C list again and generic hero to accentuate Magneto's depth which seems to be what you are calling for as he gets to interact with Jean and her contemporaries and actually matter to the x-line.

Its true that on some level Lorna and Magneto are in competition when Magneto is a middle ground character, but it doesn't have to be that way. Frankly if Lorna was written as the generic one note foil character against Krakoa you keep talking about I would drop the title like a hot potato.

The argument of Lorna if she is complex being in Magneto's shadow is a not very vailed way to keep her from interfering with him being the awesome middle ground character of the X-Men in the center of things. Shuffle Lorna off to X-Factor and have her complain about dad and be the generic hot headed hero? That was entirely what last decade was and it was a disaster for her viability and visibility. It would rather she be in limbo.

To heck with Lorna as the irrelevant C list foil for dad to accentuate his depth who doesn't get a chance to develop relationships with her contemporaries.

[Lucyinthesky]

Except Alan Davis was recreating Lorna and Magneto's original relationship from the 60s which was as much as Silver Age Magneto could do as a father which was build her up as a heir. If you are looking at Magneto from the prospective of a Magneto redemption fan and him as the good father he was to Anya then his interaction with Lorna is pretty abhorrent. Davis was recreating the 60s themes down to the Magneto/Bobby/Lorna tug of war and Magneto helping her lead when he was injured.

I was a fairly new reader at the time so I had no idea about this story, I just saw a group of characters having an interesting discussion that for me felt like fresh air after so many years of white vs black X-stories.

It was pretty obvious they were grouping Lorna with Wanda and Pietro on Genosha as well, but didn't want to pull the trigger.

That story dissapointed me in the sense that we were back to the White vs black stories.

There is no House of M faction on Krakoa. There is only Magneto as yet. I am not going to badmouth X-Factor though I am not at all a fan of Lorna being on the title for the half dozenth run if she is going to be mother hen of the C list again and generic hero to accentuate Magneto's depth as he gets to interact with Jean and her contemporaries and actually matter to the x-line

Its true that on some level Lorna and Magneto are in competition when Magneto is a middle ground character, but it doesn't have to be that way. Frankly if Lorna was written as the generic one note foil character against Krakoa you keep talking about I would drop the title like a hot potato.

I never said that and frankly I dont like when people assume things I never said, I only said that Lorna doesn´t have to be Magneto 2.0 to shine on her own, I am saying she just needs to develop stories in which she´s not doing things for Havok´s sake or for Magneto but because she cares about it and has reasons to have that pov given her own story, if it means supporting Krakoa or not I leave it to her character and the writers.

The argument of Lorna if she is complex being in Magneto's shadow is a not very vailed way to keep her from interfering with him being the awesome middle ground character of the X-Men in the center of things. Shuffle Lorna off to X-Factor and have her complain about dad and be the generic hot headed hero? That was entirely what last decade was and it was a disaster for her viability and visibility. It would rather she be in limbo.

I didn´t said that either, you are jumping to conclusions. What I mean is that she needs to have her own stories, at no point did I say she needed to be send faraway or not to interact with Jean and the others X-men of their generation either, given the fact Hickman had her talk with Scott on the very first issue the X-men main title and that he plans to get her into the X-men tie in for EMPYRE on Genosha seems to point towars him wanting her to interact more with more characters not less, you should not complain about bad threatment when it´s has not happened yet.

Yes having her on X-factor to complain about Dad is the most boring thing I can imagine her doing, that´s bassically all I hate about media stories about characters having problems with their parents for the sake of "independence" that´s very much why I didn´t care about Uncanny Avengers Wanda either. GOOD THING I didn´t mean that either. I just want her to have her own voice and solve a mystery on her own or with her team because I think that would help develop her character.

To heck with Lorna as the irrelevant C list foil for dad to accentuate his depth who doesn't get a chance to develop relationships with her contemporaries.

Agreed, I just hope you take the time to actually read my posts in the future instead of projecting what you think of them on them.

I will just ask you, if nothing being done with Lorna currently makes you happy, what would you make her do ? to give her the story you personally would prefer then?

[jmc247]

There must be a miscommunication I thought you were saying that you want Lorna to be negative towards the current mutant homeland and popular status quo without giving a good reason for her being so. I gave out Genosha and you kind of batted that away as you seemingly want her to be skeptical without a damn good reason for it.

As for Lorna and your constant comments about being in Magneto's shadow. I have heard them before as the excuse for dumping Lorna in space and keeping her there and for dumping her on the last iteration of X-Factor Investigations. It always sounded a lot to me like less an argument for Lorna and her growth and more an argument she is in the way of the core X-Men so if I become hostile when that line is taken just know I believe Lorna is every bit as important as Magneto or Jean or Emma.

[Lucyinthesky]

There must be a miscommunication I thought you were saying that you want Lorna to be negative towards the current mutant homeland and popular status quo without giving a good reason for her being so. I gave out Genosha and you kind of batted that away as you seemingly want her to be skeptical without a damn good reason for it.

Yes, then I didn´t say it well: What I mean was that it was coherent with Lorna´s story to be unsure about Krakoa´s future because of what happened to Genosha and the fact she was at the epicenter of it, I was thinking about the doubts she had about Krakoa´s future and the ressurection protocols when talking with Cyclops and with Magneto. My guess is that all those doubts will lead her to try to solve the mystery of the ressurrection process. I think that´s a good reason to have doubts and an interesting story to have on her own, especially in light of crucible and all the doubts this casted on the readers and characters.

As for Lorna and your constant comments about being in Magneto's shadow. I have heard them before as the excuse for dumping Lorna in space and keeping her there and for dumping her on the last iteration of X-Factor Investigations. It always sounded a lot to me like less an argument for Lorna and her growth and more an argument she is in the way of the core X-Men so if I become hostile when that line is taken just know I believe Lorna is every bit as important as Magneto or Jean or Emma.

I didn´t say anything about Lorna´s being on Magneto´s shadow until my last comment when you brought that up, what I mean is that she doesn´t need to be connected to him to develop she own stories and that may as well be good for her in the future because then fans would remember her for her stories not because she´s magneto´s daughter, just like Syrin or Wanda are remembered for their stories and their relationship with their fathers is another reason to like them that adds to their appeal apart from their stories, I think that was something the first season of the Gifted did well.

[jmc247]

You asked me what I want for Lorna. I want her to be as important as her contemporaries. You bring up Wanda. Love her or hate her Wanda matters in the grand scheme of Marvel. Same for Jean, same for Magneto, same even for more recient characters like Emma.

I want her to be as important at least to Marvel as the rest of her once family though I am willing to have her start small and build up to it. Her last few stints 'building up' towards it was more being written a generic hero hothead and going around in circles. She now matters less then Exodus and other x-characters created decades after her. How to bring Lorna up to that level isn't by having her being the Wanda of the X-Men. I actually prefer her more of a firebrand then they is usually depicted in the comics. I wouldn't mind it a bit if she broke Krakoa's rules from time to time creating tension between her and the council including her father for the good of mutants.

I see Lorna as a character that can and should be a major player that should have so much custom built drama to be tapped with other X-Men it has writers salivating at writing her not writer after writer being pushed to write her by editorial and without naming names many of her writers the past 15 years were basically told to write her. You want a core difference that should exist between Lorna and Magneto... she should be more of a firebrand and willing to break the rules then him the 96 year old established mutant authority. But, they should be part of the same overall faction of mutants.

If writers had that conception about the character in their heads instead of generic female x-character with daddy, boyfriend, and stability issues they would be begging to write her.

[jmc247]

kirbyscomicart by dikeruan

[Lucyinthesky]

You asked me what I want for Lorna. I want her to be as important as her contemporaries. You bring up Wanda. Love her or hate her Wanda matters in the grand scheme of Marvel. Same for Jean, same for Magneto, same even for more recient characters like Emma.

Agreed

I want her to be as important at least to Marvel as the rest of her once family though I am willing to have her start small and build up to it. Her last few stints 'building up' towards it was more being written a generic hero hothead and going around in circles. She now matters less then Exodus and other x-characters created decades after her. How to bring Lorna up to that level isn't by having her being the Wanda of the X-Men. I actually prefer her more of a firebrand then they is usually depicted in the comics. I wouldn't mind it a bit if she broke Krakoa's rules from time to time creating tension between her and the council including her father for the good of mutants.

I don´t think she matters less than Exodus he may be on the council but so far he just has been shown having discussions with Sinister or following Apocalypse, we can´t say that´s a big storyline for him, imo.

I don´t know how that would look like given Wanda has never been part of the X-men, no, what I am saying it´s good for Lorna to have her own stories just like Wanda had her own stories on the Avengers, not that I think they should be the same character.

I see Lorna as a character that can and should be a major player that should have so much custom built drama to be tapped with other X-Men it has writers salivating at writing her not writer after writer being pushed to write her by editorial and without naming names many of her writers the past 15 years were basically told to write her. You want a core difference that should exist between Lorna and Magneto... she should be more of a firebrand and willing to break the rules then him the 96 year old established mutant authority. But, they should be part of the same overall faction of mutants.

Not at all, I want her to have her own stories no matter if her pov alings with Magneto´s or not, yes, it´s good for her to be a firebrand and break the rules whatever they may be but first she needs to have, imo, a clear motive for that, that way fans and writers alike can and will like to support her pov and want to see more about her.

If writers had that conception about the character in their heads instead of generic female x-character with daddy, boyfriend, and stability issues they would be begging to write her.

Agreed




Awesome image, thanks for sharing

[LoganAlpha30X33]

Actually for most of her history Terry has had little to do with her father, and most here seem to want Lorna as basically Magneto light-where her views on humanity and such are almost identical to Magneto's in every way...and for the record Alex is such a messed up character now that who knows what his views on anything are or will be, now she's nothing more than Magneto's daughter and being away from Alex hasn't upped her level, guess it wasn't him or their relationship holding her back, it was Marvel then, and it's Marvel now...not sure that X-Factor will do much, hope I'm wrong but again that remains to be seen...

[houndsofluv]

kirbyscomicart by dikeruan

the elegance of this

[Will Evans]

Actually for most of her history Terry has had little to do with her father, and most here seem to want Lorna as basically Magneto light-where her views on humanity and such are almost identical to Magneto's in every way...and for the record Alex is such a messed up character now that who knows what his views on anything are or will be, now she's nothing more than Magneto's daughter and being away from Alex hasn't upped her level, guess it wasn't him or their relationship holding her back, it was Marvel then, and it's Marvel now...not sure that X-Factor will do much, hope I'm wrong but again that remains to be seen...

It’s interesting that X-Factor consists of adult children of the central characters: Lorna from Magneto, Daken from Wolverine, and Rachel from Jean and Cyclops. Basically all 3 have to deal with some of the issues you guys have been saying about Lorna on this last page.

[coveredinbees]

I bet you all already saw this, but just in case.
https://mobile.twitter.com/jessdelau...63747352772611

Polaris as more of a disaster than Aurora? Shots fired!

[houndsofluv]

LOL distinguished disaster....I'd say that's apt