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  1. #871
    Mighty Member whitecrown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmc247 View Post
    Claremont's first run didn't look back much for ideas (outside of one early 70s Hulk story where she is in the desert with Havok) on what to do with her and as a consequence other writers after did not think much about such things until her Genosha arc which Claremont did get involved in. I sort of see that arc as the beginning of modern Lorna and the rebirth of her original themes. It was made possible by the end of 90s X-Factor, Havok leaving for the Mutant X universe, and Magneto having a country. The writers of her Genosha arc very much had her 60s story in mind and some of the same dynamics were almost transposed from it.



    Austen's original plan was very simple. Write Lorna like early 90s X-Factor, have a love triangle, marry her off to Havok and dump her in limbo. Where Lorna was between Eve of Destruction when she was still living on Genosha and Morrison dropped the hammer on the island was unknown. Morrison decided in 2002 to have her be one of the survivors in a really powerful and emotional story. That left Austen feeling he should revamp his entire plan for the character. As part of that he did a lot more research then your typical writer of Lorna's runs on her early relationships and even some obscure activities like archaeology.

    The real success of the era wasn't even restoring her parentage (though that certainly mattered) as much as it was giving her a semblance of a personality, core motivation and worldview. Without the core themes to go along with her who donated their genetic material to make her really doesn't matter as it doesn't spice up her relationships or character drama without it being built into the character.

    Scott since Decimation has felt much more heir to Magneto’s legacy then Lorna.



    You are correct that X-Men West Coast would have raised her profile and odds of getting on one of the two core 90s X-Men teams.

    In terms of Lorna after Decimation she lost any semblance of a goal, direction, overarching theme, etc. Lorna should have had a lot to do in the decade of mutant extinction stories, but she was wholly divorced from all of that. I think uninspired writing that couldn’t see a way for Lorna to fit in with Magneto back to being an X-Men mainstay and the revolutionary Scott push was to blame.



    I don't think we can assume anything at this point about what Disney/Marvel will do. I do think watching the Marvel/Disney promotion and merch over the next few years will tell a good story at least on their thinking in terms of their overarching role if any for the character.

    My general view is if they bench Magneto for a few films it’s probably good for Lorna as they can introduce her to segway into eventually introducing him. If they make him into the big boss of a full phase with his own mutant army or nation behind him it probably helps Lorna as it did Gamora and Nebula with how big they made their father.

    If they go a similar role to the Fox films from First Class to Dark Phoenix for Magneto it’s a problem for Lorna as she really doesn’t have much space to work with unless they think well outside the comic book box for the character.
    I'm still surprised to this day that Claremont included Erik the Red in his first run since he apparently had never read any of the O5 issues before besides maybe the Neal Adams issues. I know there was a lot of confusion about his connection with Lorna since he ambiguously stated that he only knew of the X-Men through her. Even in those Marvel Team-Up issues with the Living Monolith, Havok was more of the central focus of the stories unlike Lorna so she got snubbed there as well.

    I never thought about how the Genosha arc was very much along the lines of her 60s storyline. The destruction of Genosha did have the positive effect of giving Lorna a reason to return to the X-Men and have the Magneto connection revealed. Although it still shocks me that it took practically a decade even after then for her origin to be fully disclosed to readers.

    Ugh, I had no idea about Austen's original plan for Lorna. Was the love triangle supposed to be her, Alex, and Bobby or was it always going to involve that nurse Annie? As bad as Claremont treated the Alex/Lorna relationship in the 80s, nothing was as bad as what Austen did and it didn't do any favors for either character. I'm glad he had enough sense to realize that with Genosha's destruction, Lorna's arc needed to be adjusted rather than plow straight ahead with what he wanted to do originally. And I agree, that we finally got Lorna's world views and what ideology she truly believed in when it came to human/mutant co-existence, I felt like we got to know more about her in general. Such as how a lot of her interest in marrying Alex was for good genes and breeding because she felt he provided that. Plus her interest in Gambit lol. That makes me wonder why nobody did more between Gambit and Polaris in the Reload era especially since Gambit and Rogue were already having relationship problems.

    The real X-Men Schism should have been between Jean and Lorna, not Logan and Scott. A missed opportunity for sure, especially if Wanda got dragged in somehow considering her ties to both of them, particularly Lorna.

    To be fair, Lorna wasn't the only character neglected during the Decimation period. Most of the X-Men were wallpaper behind the STD called Scemma during the Utopia days. Magneto had a major role but he was more like a lackey to Wrongclops. Wolverine was an exception as he tends to be, but other major characters like Storm were completely missing (which would have been a great opportunity to shoehorn in Lorna). The real missed opportunity was after Schism since Lorna got shunted off to X-Factor when she could have been part of Wolverine's core team alongside Beast, Kitty, Iceman, and later Storm. Even if her ideology was more along the lines of Cyclops during Schism, I can't see how that side would suit her since the same handful of characters that composed of Cyclops' core group hogged all the attention and as long as Magneto was there, Lorna was always going to play second fiddle. X-Men Legacy would have been another great choice for her if not WATXM alongside Rogue, Gambit, Rachel, and Frenzy. For that matter, has Lorna ever even interacted with Frenzy?

    Right now Disney merchandise for the X-Men like the recent coloring book is based off of the Disney+ 90s designs so it seems to be taking heavy inspiration from the 90s animated show. But with a few exceptions like Iceman is prominent and Mystique and Magneto seem to be X-Men allies.

    Genosha has never really been a thing in the movies so that would be a good concept to introduce in the MCU, especially since Wakanda hit it off so a mutant kingdom could also really take off and be cinematically pleasing. Asteroid M or the Savage Land would work as well.

  2. #872
    Mighty Member whitecrown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by salarta View Post
    First, some new fanart.



    by unknownrllan



    by Minocitaarts


    Second, some commentary. I haven't passed any of this by the Polaris Committee (TM), and I may respond to prior posts at some point later, but I'm writing this purely off thoughts I have right now.

    There's been discussion about what kind of role Lorna could have within the X-Men setup, based on the various characters that exist and what roles Marvel gives them at any given time. We've discussed what I'm about to say to some extent before, but I feel like it hasn't really been fully weighed and considered.

    A LOT of people who like Lorna (fans or casual) like her associated with punk and heavy metal themes and aesthetics. We've seen quite a bit of fanart and cosplay fitting this idea. Whether it's Lorna wearing spiked chokers or rocker jackets with slogans, piercings and tattoos all over, or giving the middle finger, there's been a trend of fan imagery depicting her with a lot of this attitude. There might have been a bit here and there in the past, but it's especially picked up since Emma Dumont's depiction of Lorna on Gifted that had more of this style to her.

    The "punk and heavy metal" vibe regularly comes with a sense of rebellion. Raging against the machine (perhaps literally, in Lorna's case), questioning systems, challenging authority.

    In my opinion, this is exactly the role Lorna can take. Regardless of what anyone else is doing. And I think it fits the core concept of her from way back when she was introduced. She was more progressive than Jean at that time as far as female character portrayal. Before the parentage retcon happened, Lorna was also set to be "rebellious" in the sense of rebelling against her father toward the side of good, yet with a bit of "devil" to her implied (let's not forget the horns hand gesture she had when revealed in costume). But back then, all the punk and heavy metal subculture we see today hadn't arrived yet, so Lorna as a character couldn't seize upon them for her character development. By the time that subculture showed up, attitude with Marvel had moved away from her potential and more toward how she could be used to benefit other characters.

    That brings us to today. A lot of people perceive the concept of rebellion as one of "rebellious youth," and further, that "rebellious youth" must be in their teens. This perception would supposedly age Lorna out... BUT. This isn't really true. You don't have to be young to be a rebellious figure. In particular, there's a lot of take for this among millennial ages, which are themselves older than the age Marvel currently considers these characters (as Marvel considers these characters to be in their mid-20s).

    However, what we COULD do with her age and history is present her as a "rebellious mentor/icon." Roll up "rogue princess" with rebellion and you have a powerful figure who could use her experiences and cultural status to push for change.

    ... Now, this is where we get to Krakoa. Because a lot of people are framing their ideas of what Lorna can be entirely on what Marvel's currently doing instead of generally. To which, I raise these two hypotheticals.

    1. What if Lorna, being rebellious, challenges the system of Krakoa for injustices that others aren't willing to challenge?
    2. What if Lorna, being rebellious, challenges the Krakoan idea of self-isolation and insists mutant representation not being as represented in other countries as pre-Krakoa isn't real change?


    #2 gets into thoughts of whether or not Lorna supports the idea of mutant island nations, and I'm not going to get into arguments about that right now, cause that's not really relevant. What I'm saying with #2 isn't "Lorna must be opposed to Krakoa." I'm saying that in hypothetical #2, Lorna may feel Krakoa alone isn't sufficient for mutants. Just because women have equal rights in the United States (which to be honest isn't really true, but still) doesn't mean they can leave mutant treatment or mutant attitudes in other countries at sanctions, or at stepping in only when things are real bad. At its roots, the "rebellion" part of heavy metal and punk is making people uncomfortable in the work to bring positive change. Perhaps Lorna would want a world where Krakoa isn't perceived as needed to protect most mutants. Perhaps she would put herself out there as such a figure demanding progress in other countries in a direct way that Krakoa as a larger entity can't.

    Frankly, I still don't really support HoX/PoX/DoX. So the above comments are more to detail what's possible for a "rebellious" Lorna in that setting for those people who do support HoX/PoX/DoX.

    Plus, hypothetically, Lorna as a rebel figure could give Marvel an "out" for why they never have her leading teams. Because X-Men teams up til now haven't really been "rebel" style. New Mutants may have been the closest thing, but it's not quite what I'm thinking of here. I'm certainly open to correction if I'm wrong though.

    Wrapping up: as far as I'm aware, no characters in Marvel's existing framework fits this concept very well. You may be able to look at particular characters who had a "phase" or "the look" at one time or another, but that's entirely different from a character actually owning it and cutting new paths forward. I think "heavy metal or punk rebel figure" is Lorna's niche. And I think she already has both fandom perception and character history to pull it off.

    Besides, how can't you imagine the Mistress of Magnetism as a heavy metal rebel queen rocking out? :P
    I like that fanart particularly the first one.

    I really like the idea of punk Polaris from all the Emma Dumont fanart and I think that would be a neat direction to go with the character. It would certainly give her something that other X-Men characters don't really have (besides maybe 80s Storm since they love to bring back the mohawk). It definitely contrasts her with Jean or even other Silver Age heroines like Wanda and that's already a great step in the right direction so she isn't Jean Grey 2.0, particularly if Alex isn't involved in the picture.

    The X-Men of the Silver Age would have been a great chance to portray 60s counterculture but under Stan and Jack, we got five very conservative and WASPy students. I think Stan used to get criticism because all his young heroes were always suited up and people said he clearly had no idea what the youth was into or how they dressed. Lorna came right at the end of that era and it would have been an opportunity to portray the rebellious youth in contrast to the more straight-laced X-Men.

    Any scenario where Lorna rebels against the HoX/PoX/DoX storyline is fine with me because I'm not a fan of Hickman's direction for the X-Men franchise at all. I don't recognize these characters anymore so if Lorna's character has to be heavily involved, I definitely want her opposing the regime in some shape or form.

  3. #873
    Invincible Member juan678's Avatar
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  4. #874

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    Quote Originally Posted by whitecrown View Post
    Marvel has always had an obsession with the Summers-Grey bloodline so that's honestly what introduces Havok a lot in these TV shows and spinoff materials because they want to showcase Cyclops' family. And unfortunately, they already introduced Magneto's daughter in the form of Wanda midway through X-Men Evolution so they probably felt that introducing yet another daughter might have been overkill. That's the same reason I think that if the reports of that MCU X-Men film are true that feature Havok, he's only being included because they want to do something with the Summers-Grey bloodline and that's easier to establish if there's more than one Summers character. And knowing Marvel, more than two female characters on one team would be too much for them considering they only recently upgraded from one female character per team to two and we know that they wouldn't kick out Storm or Jean. However, there was no Magneto mention in that report so it's not impossible that Lorna might be part of his Brotherhood and thus still a part of the film even if she's not an X-Man.

    What I always find so revealing is when Havok and Polaris' names are included pertaining to the history of the X-Men and Havok's name will be put first as if he joined the team before Polaris did. That just shows right then and there who they think is the most important X-Men addition to the O5 but before the Giant-Size X-Men team. And it probably doesn't help that in Claremont's 17-year run, Lorna never rejoined the team, excluding the Muir Island X-Men whereas Havok actually was part of the popular Outback X-Men period so he's already more of an X-Man than Lorna is for fans of the classic X-Men. Not to mention, Havok only got brainwashed once whereas it happened twice with Polaris in this run.

    It's a real shame that when Havok was shunted off to Mutant X, that nobody did more with Lorna. This was the chance to really give her her own central identity and maybe make her rejoin the team. Instead she was basically kept on Genosha and while that did help re-establish her ties with Magneto, much more could have been done instead of that. I think she made an appearance in the Black Sun series but considering that this was an era devoid of Summers brothers (with both Scott and Alex gone), they could certainly have taken advantage of that to promote Lorna like they did with Jean. I think it's also pretty telling how quickly Alex and especially Scott were brought back, whereas Jean was killed off for more than a decade and Lorna was in character limbo for years.
    I think Lorna revealed as Magneto's daughter again was too new at the time for Evolution's writers to have thought of doing anything with it, so I can't really fault them on whether or not they used her as Magneto's daughter. But they could've definitely added Lorna just as a general character on the show. She would've been a perfect fit for a metalhead type of character in Evolution's setting, and the show didn't have women that could really fit it. Rogue was the closest but she was set up as a goth girl instead.

    Marvel's obsession with bloodlines could be a good thing... if they handled it right. With Lorna at least, they really don't. They take this attitude of her more like cattle than character, something to be owned rather than a character herself, one step away from Sinister breeding her for good stock. Usually happens with Havok, which is why I'm most vocal there, but it's slipped in previously around Magneto and Gambit.

    I think Marvel sees complaints of Lorna being used this way and they decide it means they shouldn't use her at all, which is like burning your finger on the stove once and deciding you should never use stoves. All it takes is using the stove properly, touching other spots that are safe to touch and not touching areas that are hot until they've cooled down.

    What you point out about how Marvel acts like Havok came before Lorna is precisely why I often point out how Marvel ignores her history, and why if these characters show up in the MCU, I want Lorna to show up before Havok. It's compliant with actual comics chronology, and it encourages an understanding of Lorna as her own character, not as a convenient status-boosting girlfriend for Havok.

    Quote Originally Posted by juan678 View Post
    New Version cbr or Legend of Polaris

    https://www.cbr.com/x-men-polaris-ma...-machinesmith/
    I'm glad this article was written with more details. I especially appreciate Cronin's addition pointing out how Lorna was a latent mutant when she was captured, meaning it really makes no sense for a robot from Machinesmith to want to abduct Lorna and use her as Magneto's daughter regardless of whether that is or isn't the case.

    Personally, I think this is very low on the totem pole of things Marvel should be doing with Lorna. First and foremost above everything else, they need to start acknowledging and using her experiences with Genosha. After that, I think her history with Jean and the X-Men as a whole needs way more going for it. If the twins get restored as Magneto's kids, that's also a high priority. I'm torn between which is #2 and which is #3, but I think I lean toward the Jean and X-Men parts being #2 because it goes back to the franchise's earliest days and her presence back then should mean way more to Marvel than it does right now.
    I can also be reached on BlueSky and Tumblr. Avatar by kahlart.

    Ghosts of Genosha minicomic focused on Polaris, written by me and drawn by Fin_NoMore.

    Polaris 50th anniversary minicomic written by me and drawn by Mlad!

    Gallery of Polaris commissions (without NSFW or minicomics)

  5. #875

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    Quote Originally Posted by whitecrown View Post
    I never thought about how the Genosha arc was very much along the lines of her 60s storyline. The destruction of Genosha did have the positive effect of giving Lorna a reason to return to the X-Men and have the Magneto connection revealed. Although it still shocks me that it took practically a decade even after then for her origin to be fully disclosed to readers.
    Yes, it was many of the same themes with many of the same characters.

    Outside a few twists and turns really the genocide was the big difference. Out of it you had a template for how Lorna could interact with other characters outside of love/loyalty triangles. Her first story was a loyalty triangle between Lorna, Iceman, and Magneto. The second was a love triangle between Lorna, Bobby, and Havok. Permutations of that triangle have continued with time with new characters often fit in with cosmetic changes such as in the 90s with Haven as 'the Magneto' or Random as the more edgy Bobby.

    Without a motivational core for Lorna which Genosha gave her (and writers post M-Day discarded) the character was doomed to repeat the same dynamics of select few relationships, few interactions, a mostly generic depiction, and a lot of love and loyalty triangles. There are some reasons to hope they are treading in better ground at the moment, but a lot remains to be seen. It’s up to what motivates the character is it ideas or her past or men?

    Ugh, I had no idea about Austen's original plan for Lorna. Was the love triangle supposed to be her, Alex, and Bobby or was it always going to involve that nurse Annie?
    It was always supposed to be Lorna, Annie, and Havok. Though it was going to be pretty short as in a few month affair before Lorna ended up with a wedding ring in hand and going off to limbo.

    And I agree, that we finally got Lorna's world views and what ideology she truly believed in when it came to human/mutant co-existence, I felt like we got to know more about her in general. Such as how a lot of her interest in marrying Alex was for good genes and breeding because she felt he provided that. Plus her interest in Gambit lol. That makes me wonder why nobody did more between Gambit and Polaris in the Reload era especially since Gambit and Rogue were already having relationship problems.
    The way she sometimes talked with the filter off was a very good idea as it gave her the feel of a personality that her being highly reserved never really provided. In terms of Gambit/Polaris I actually think based on his Reload plans he was more looking towards Lorna and Wolverine as a sort of ideologically divided, but otherwise charged pair, but it probably needed another year to get off the ground. Then he was gone and it was back to her having a love triangle with Bobby and Iceman.

    The real X-Men Schism should have been between Jean and Lorna, not Logan and Scott. A missed opportunity for sure, especially if Wanda got dragged in somehow considering her ties to both of them, particularly Lorna.
    By the time Schism came about Jean had been long dead and Lorna as a complex character with a different view on mutant rights was a thing of many years past something not really resurrected at all until HoX #5. But, I would agree with you the core ideas and themes between Lorna and Jean have been waiting to be mined after Davis, Morrison, and Austen cracked the door open. But, at this point the relationship needs a reboot as it has been dead too long. You would need a couple friendly issues between them again as they had in '00-03 to give a schism any poignancy. Either way its not going to happen for quite some time, though the core idea is out there.

    I think X-Factor and/or the crossover books she will be on may be a good place to play with concepts that can be used later in a larger way for the character. We don't know what general route they will take with the character, but I expect us to know by the end of August. For now it looks like she will be mainly interacting with the same names she has been interacting with for over a decade. That will only be bad if they don't try new things and not go with mother hen Lorna who treads water for a few years in another slow burn loyalty triangle with Havok and Magneto.

    Genosha has never really been a thing in the movies so that would be a good concept to introduce in the MCU, especially since Wakanda hit it off so a mutant kingdom could also really take off and be cinematically pleasing. Asteroid M or the Savage Land would work as well.
    Genosha (and yes also Asteroid M) provides two things for Lorna in the films. A base and a group of characters to interact with assuming which is likely there is no room on the X-Men. But, I generally think she also needs a persona and a pathos.

    If she doesn't have that if she appears she probably ends in a divided loyalty/love interest story being shifted off to limbo. That would still be great to get in a film period, but I would imagine any Romeo and Juliet type story for her would end after one or two films given the lack of space on the core X-Men roster.

    In terms of the Fox films from what I heard was Vaughn was going with his original reboot X-Men Trilogy plans. Lorna was set to be introduced in the second film and probably would have been the stand in for Jean with Havok the stand in for Scott for a move or two. Singer came in and Lorna got turned into a young girl living in the Maximoff's and then most of her scenes were cut. Singer said the girl was Wanda sister. This was 2014 and it explains how she got into X-Men Legos in 2013 and the X-Men DoFP game in 2014 and nothing after since. She was getting a promotional boost for being on their synergy list before someone at Marvel decided no promotion of Fox IP.

    Lorna just getting into any films would be a great success, but she needs to be more then a love/loyalty triangle and being the replacement Scott and Jean for a movie or two if she is going to take off.
    Last edited by jmc247; 06-12-2020 at 04:13 PM.

  6. #876
    Mighty Member whitecrown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by salarta View Post
    I think Lorna revealed as Magneto's daughter again was too new at the time for Evolution's writers to have thought of doing anything with it, so I can't really fault them on whether or not they used her as Magneto's daughter. But they could've definitely added Lorna just as a general character on the show. She would've been a perfect fit for a metalhead type of character in Evolution's setting, and the show didn't have women that could really fit it. Rogue was the closest but she was set up as a goth girl instead.

    Marvel's obsession with bloodlines could be a good thing... if they handled it right. With Lorna at least, they really don't. They take this attitude of her more like cattle than character, something to be owned rather than a character herself, one step away from Sinister breeding her for good stock. Usually happens with Havok, which is why I'm most vocal there, but it's slipped in previously around Magneto and Gambit.

    I think Marvel sees complaints of Lorna being used this way and they decide it means they shouldn't use her at all, which is like burning your finger on the stove once and deciding you should never use stoves. All it takes is using the stove properly, touching other spots that are safe to touch and not touching areas that are hot until they've cooled down.

    What you point out about how Marvel acts like Havok came before Lorna is precisely why I often point out how Marvel ignores her history, and why if these characters show up in the MCU, I want Lorna to show up before Havok. It's compliant with actual comics chronology, and it encourages an understanding of Lorna as her own character, not as a convenient status-boosting girlfriend for Havok.
    Even if she wasn't Magneto's daughter, they could have easily included her in Evolution like you said because they had no issue adding Havok or a dozen New Mutants characters. Or even introduce her as an Acolyte towards the end of the show since they did that with Colossus and Gambit.

    What I don't understand with Marvel is that she had no connection to Magneto from the 70s-late 90s but they still didn't utilize her much then. So this idea that they aren't using her anymore because they feel it bothers her fans if she's only connected to her bloodline doesn't gel with me. Marvel clearly must have some sort of vendetta against the character that goes further than that because she's one of the only classic X-Men characters who never received a push. Even a character like Banshee had a writer who loved him enough to pitch a book (X-Men Green) while Rick Remender also wanted to use Banshee. Sunfire was on the Uncanny Avengers team. Thunderbird...well, his only contribution was his death. But it's just Lorna left in the lurch.

    And if Lorna and Havok had a loving relationship, I still wouldn't mind if she's latched onto him even if that makes them Cyclops and Phoenix 2.0. The issue goes further than that though because he's never treated her well and he gets a boost at her expense and that goes all the way back to the Claremont days. It doesn't help that people laud the Neal Adams run of the Silver Age X-Men which is what introduced Havok whereas Steranko's run with Lorna tends to get flat out ignored or dismissed especially with the retcons like robot Magneto. It seems Lorna constantly gets sabotaged at every step.

  7. #877
    Mighty Member whitecrown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmc247 View Post
    Yes, it was many of the same themes with many of the same characters.

    Outside a few twists and turns really the genocide was the big difference. Out of it you had a template for how Lorna could interact with other characters outside of love/loyalty triangles. Her first story was a loyalty triangle between Lorna, Iceman, and Magneto. The second was a love triangle between Lorna, Bobby, and Havok. Permutations of that triangle have continued with time with new characters often fit in with cosmetic changes such as in the 90s with Haven as 'the Magneto' or Random as the more edgy Bobby.

    Without a motivational core for Lorna which Genosha gave her (and writers post M-Day discarded) the character was doomed to repeat the same dynamics of select few relationships, few interactions, a mostly generic depiction, and a lot of love and loyalty triangles. There are some reasons to hope they are treading in better ground at the moment, but a lot remains to be seen. It’s up to what motivates the character is it ideas or her past or men?



    It was always supposed to be Lorna, Annie, and Havok. Though it was going to be pretty short as in a few month affair before Lorna ended up with a wedding ring in hand and going off to limbo.



    The way she sometimes talked with the filter off was a very good idea as it gave her the feel of a personality that her being highly reserved never really provided. In terms of Gambit/Polaris I actually think based on his Reload plans he was more looking towards Lorna and Wolverine as a sort of ideologically divided, but otherwise charged pair, but it probably needed another year to get off the ground. Then he was gone and it was back to her having a love triangle with Bobby and Iceman.



    By the time Schism came about Jean had been long dead and Lorna as a complex character with a different view on mutant rights was a thing of many years past something not really resurrected at all until HoX #5. But, I would agree with you the core ideas and themes between Lorna and Jean have been waiting to be mined after Davis, Morrison, and Austen cracked the door open. But, at this point the relationship needs a reboot as it has been dead too long. You would need a couple friendly issues between them again as they had in '00-03 to give a schism any poignancy. Either way its not going to happen for quite some time, though the core idea is out there.

    I think X-Factor and/or the crossover books she will be on may be a good place to play with concepts that can be used later in a larger way for the character. We don't know what general route they will take with the character, but I expect us to know by the end of August. For now it looks like she will be mainly interacting with the same names she has been interacting with for over a decade. That will only be bad if they don't try new things and not go with mother hen Lorna who treads water for a few years in another slow burn loyalty triangle with Havok and Magneto.



    Genosha (and yes also Asteroid M) provides two things for Lorna in the films. A base and a group of characters to interact with assuming which is likely there is no room on the X-Men. But, I generally think she also needs a persona and a pathos.

    If she doesn't have that if she appears she probably ends in a divided loyalty/love interest story being shifted off to limbo. That would still be great to get in a film period, but I would imagine any Romeo and Juliet type story for her would end after one or two films given the lack of space on the core X-Men roster.

    In terms of the Fox films from what I heard was Vaughn was going with his original reboot X-Men Trilogy plans. Lorna was set to be introduced in the second film and probably would have been the stand in for Jean with Havok the stand in for Scott for a move or two. Singer came in and Lorna got turned into a young girl living in the Maximoff's and then most of her scenes were cut. Singer said the girl was Wanda sister. This was 2014 and it explains how she got into X-Men Legos in 2013 and the X-Men DoFP game in 2014 and nothing after since. She was getting a promotional boost for being on their synergy list before someone at Marvel decided no promotion of Fox IP.

    Lorna just getting into any films would be a great success, but she needs to be more then a love/loyalty triangle and being the replacement Scott and Jean for a movie or two if she is going to take off.
    As much as I don't like how Lorna was treated during her wedding arc, at least she wasn't written out and had some interesting moments compared to what Austen had originally planned from what you described. Otherwise she probably wouldn't have been included in the Reload era. Then again, M-Day and becoming a Horseman of Apocalypse didn't really do anything for her and then Brubaker had her shunted off in space for years. From what I've heard, Lorna's slot in The Rise and Fall of the Shi'ar Empire was originally meant for Storm but because of her marriage, she had to be replaced.

    I definitely felt like I had more of an idea from Lorna thanks to Austen's run than anything else I had read of her before that. Lorna/Wolverine is interesting although considering what tends to happen to his romantic partners and girlfriends maybe we were better off. At the same time though, a lot of his platonic relationships did tend to give female characters a boost like Carol Danvers, Jessica Drew, Elektra, Psylocke, etc. so maybe Lorna could have benefited from that as well. Surely her bouncing around from book to book with Wolverine would have been a plus just to establish her as a major mainstream character. I always liked Lorna and Bobby together so the love triangle wouldn't have bothered me so much if she had actually ended up with Bobby. Even if she didn't, putting her back with Alex just felt unnecessary considering how much the two had grown apart. I wonder what her role could have been like had Alex not been on the team because then there would be no love triangle to hamper her growth.

    Agreed, Jean/Lorna is something that casual fans wouldn't even understand at this point and even major fans of the friendship would need something to re-establish them together because I can't remember a single moment between Jean and Lorna since Jean's return. Marvel loves their heroes vs heroes events so I suppose they have plenty of time to build up to such a thing if they ever wanted to (which I sincerely doubt). It's time the X-Men branch out beyond Xavier vs Magneto or Wolverine vs Cyclops and I hope the films follow suit.

    At least Havok and Magneto are far away from Lorna in X-Factor right now. Personally I would have liked her in X-Force along with Jean, Wolverine, and Beast since they're all A-listers and we could stand to see her develop relationships with these characters or re-develop in Jean's case. And Lorna in X-Force has been an idea they teased ever since Remender's UXF and that variant cover which had Havok and Lorna on the X-Force side. I suppose it partially ended up coming true since Remender pulled Havok into Uncanny Avengers.

    I remember hearing there were plans for Lorna in a First Class sequel so it's a shame they never brought the character back. After all, Jubilee and Psylocke are characters they kept trying to introduce in multiple films and it never stopped them from trying again and again even when those plans were scrapped. I wish they had introduced Lorna in DOFP instead of Pietro (and I don't mean that little girl) especially since from what I remember, Quicksilver was only announced as being part of DOFP after it was confirmed he would be in Age of Ultron, although I could be wrong on that. It made me think Fox was only using him to throw a blow at Marvel by getting their Quicksilver out first.

    Luckily with Scott and Jean having major roles in the MCU being likely, I don't think they'd go for the same dynamic between Lorna if she's introduced. If they went with an Asteroid M base for Magneto and his Brotherhood, I could easily see Lorna being included. The issue is if they go with the more heroic stance on the character which rumors have suggested but even then, what better way to make him sympathetic than to introduce a daughter. And while I'm not 100% pleased with the idea of Lorna as a villain, it could be an interesting twist if Magneto becomes the hero while his daughter gets closer and closer to villainy, an inversion of the Thanos/Gamora/Nebula dynamic.

  8. #878

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    Quote Originally Posted by whitecrown View Post
    As much as I don't like how Lorna was treated during her wedding arc, at least she wasn't written out and had some interesting moments compared to what Austen had originally planned from what you described. Otherwise she probably wouldn't have been included in the Reload era. Then again, M-Day and becoming a Horseman of Apocalypse didn't really do anything for her and then Brubaker had her shunted off in space for years. From what I've heard, Lorna's slot in The Rise and Fall of the Shi'ar Empire was originally meant for Storm but because of her marriage, she had to be replaced.
    Milligan and Brubaker fell way too hard back on old time Lorna ideas that never really worked in the many times they were tried. From bad mind control plotlines to love triangles with the same old names and then back to the same old ship it was poor and recycled. Her goals and personality was also lacking. Some of the writers last decade had better ideas then others, but her runs often ran into similar problems.

    I definitely felt like I had more of an idea from Lorna thanks to Austen's run than anything else I had read of her before that. Lorna/Wolverine is interesting although considering what tends to happen to his romantic partners and girlfriends maybe we were better off. At the same time though, a lot of his platonic relationships did tend to give female characters a boost like Carol Danvers, Jessica Drew, Elektra, Psylocke, etc. so maybe Lorna could have benefited from that as well. Surely her bouncing around from book to book with Wolverine would have been a plus just to establish her as a major mainstream character. I always liked Lorna and Bobby together so the love triangle wouldn't have bothered me so much if she had actually ended up with Bobby. Even if she didn't, putting her back with Alex just felt unnecessary considering how much the two had grown apart. I wonder what her role could have been like had Alex not been on the team because then there would be no love triangle to hamper her growth.
    The mid 2000s would have been a good time to date Wolverine even if it didn't work out as he was everywhere at the same time including the Avengers and that would have opened doors yes. But, I did think Austen had a interesting basis he was building to it that other writers would have picked up on, however its water under the bridge.

    Agreed, Jean/Lorna is something that casual fans wouldn't even understand at this point and even major fans of the friendship would need something to re-establish them together because I can't remember a single moment between Jean and Lorna since Jean's return. Marvel loves their heroes vs heroes events so I suppose they have plenty of time to build up to such a thing if they ever wanted to (which I sincerely doubt). It's time the X-Men branch out beyond Xavier vs Magneto or Wolverine vs Cyclops and I hope the films follow suit.
    At least Havok and Magneto are far away from Lorna in X-Factor right now. Personally I would have liked her in X-Force along with Jean, Wolverine, and Beast since they're all A-listers and we could stand to see her develop relationships with these characters or re-develop in Jean's case. And Lorna in X-Force has been an idea they teased ever since Remender's UXF and that variant cover which had Havok and Lorna on the X-Force side. I suppose it partially ended up coming true since Remender pulled Havok into Uncanny Avengers.
    We will see Havok and Lorna together in the X-Swords crossover. I might not like the ship, but I can understand that as the writers of both characters ongoings will want a shot in the arm as will Jordan White which is one of the goals of any x-over. I have no opposition to it under that context.

    At the same point in time I also think that its likely Lorna and Mags go together to Genosha in Empyre X-Men. Again I won't quibble as they have needed to talk about it and I hope they get it given all that is packed into the issues. Lorna was around the X-Men like Jean for over two years that nothing came of her relationship with teen Jean or adult Jean is not a surprise as they didn't think very deep about these things.

    I am just hoping for the comics that they use the current opportunity to test Lorna with a more complex relationship with her teammates and other X-Men then we have seen of late. Otherwise comic Lorna is running in a circle and by the time it is her turn again to interact with Jean and her contemporaries they won't know what to do again.

    Lorna and Rachel had five years together in space as the two x-women there and you had no character development or relationship building between then to speak of. Just two and a half pages of comics mostly talking about their boyfriends among them. That is typical of Lorna relationships and it doesn’t have to be.
    Last edited by jmc247; 06-13-2020 at 12:55 AM.

  9. #879

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    Quote Originally Posted by whitecrown View Post
    Even if she wasn't Magneto's daughter, they could have easily included her in Evolution like you said because they had no issue adding Havok or a dozen New Mutants characters. Or even introduce her as an Acolyte towards the end of the show since they did that with Colossus and Gambit.
    Yeah, there's a lot of things they could've done with Lorna and didn't.

    One of the more frustrating things for me in fiction is when it's incredibly obvious something could've been done that wasn't. And by this, I don't mean "I don't like what they did here, my idea is better." Different people have different ideas, and the beauty of fiction is sometimes it can reveal things you wouldn't see yourself. What I mean is when there are huge gaps that could've been covered but weren't, or characters left out of things that they shouldn't be based on their history and the circumstances. Certain things, it shouldn't matter if someone's a fan of the character or not, because objectively the character should be used anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by whitecrown View Post
    What I don't understand with Marvel is that she had no connection to Magneto from the 70s-late 90s but they still didn't utilize her much then. So this idea that they aren't using her anymore because they feel it bothers her fans if she's only connected to her bloodline doesn't gel with me. Marvel clearly must have some sort of vendetta against the character that goes further than that because she's one of the only classic X-Men characters who never received a push. Even a character like Banshee had a writer who loved him enough to pitch a book (X-Men Green) while Rick Remender also wanted to use Banshee. Sunfire was on the Uncanny Avengers team. Thunderbird...well, his only contribution was his death. But it's just Lorna left in the lurch.
    Yeah, problems aren't the relationships themselves, it's how the relationships are used. If they're used well, it can pay off big time. If they're used poorly, it just drags everything down.

    Lorna's missed out on a lot that could've been done with her father for several decades, but at the same time, she's fortunate that her relationship with Magneto hasn't been tainted by decades of misuse in the same way things with Havok have been. That means it's much easier for writers at Marvel to realize when they make a misstep and course correct. With Havok, it's a hell of a lot harder because many of them have nostalgia muddying their vision of what's good or bad.

    And I think nostalgia is a big component of why people at Marvel seem to have something against Lorna. There's a reason a certain editor kept excluding her as part of the Magnus family when working with Wanda and Pietro, a reason why Marvel keeps acting like she had nothing to do with Genosha, a reason why she's not considered Omega alongside her father despite what past comics have said, and a reason why Lorna's history with Jean, Iceman and the franchise as a whole is constantly ignored. It's all the same reason. People at Marvel have a bad mental image of her from cases where she's been used poorly, vs good mental images of other characters that were treated better, and they don't want to put in the work to break free of those misconceptions or blaze the trail of correcting decades worth of mistakes. Reading a few old comics they liked when they were younger or asking someone that thinks like they do seems to be all they're willing to do to interrogate their own assumptions.

    Quote Originally Posted by whitecrown View Post
    And if Lorna and Havok had a loving relationship, I still wouldn't mind if she's latched onto him even if that makes them Cyclops and Phoenix 2.0. The issue goes further than that though because he's never treated her well and he gets a boost at her expense and that goes all the way back to the Claremont days. It doesn't help that people laud the Neal Adams run of the Silver Age X-Men which is what introduced Havok whereas Steranko's run with Lorna tends to get flat out ignored or dismissed especially with the retcons like robot Magneto. It seems Lorna constantly gets sabotaged at every step.
    A Lorna and Havok relationship is something I haven't completely nixed, but it shouldn't happen any time soon. Marvel's tainted it.

    It's odd and annoying, because Marvel will spend 15 years acting like the most devastating thing to ever happen in Lorna's life never happened, or take 43 years to finally tell her origin story... and then they'll turn around and act like Havok kept away from Lorna for 5 years is a "really long time." And I was about to say "maybe for Havok it is," but in all honesty, if Havok not having Lorna around for 5 years is killing him in the eyes of Marvel then Marvel has massive problems with how they see Havok too.

    When the pairing originally split in 2012, I said they should stay apart for roughly 10 years, and a lot more focus should be put on Lorna before bringing them back together (if they're brought back together). That way, Lorna would have decades worth of misuse made up for, and a solid foundation for them to have an actual good relationship instead of repeating past mistakes. If Marvel had stuck to that, the pairing might've been ready two years from now. Instead, they just had to misuse her yet again in 2017 to promote Havok, and they keep doing it whenever they think they can sneak it in. Which means another 10 years if Marvel kept them apart starting now... which we already know they won't, thanks to X of Swords.

    The only "shortcut" I can see for Marvel getting them back together sooner than 10 years would require them to do way, way more with Lorna than they're willing to do. It'd require a Polaris solo ongoing, HUGE presence for her on at least one Marvel-wide event (as in, one of the most important characters of the whole event), a prominent role in the MCU, and essentially the kind of push they've been giving Scarlet Witch this past decade. All without Havok. Marvel wouldn't do even one of those things, as they've made clear in their comments and projects involving her (or not involving her, in some cases) for the past decade.

    Why so much? Because for the relationship to be truly viable, Marvel would have to make sure everyone (not only their audience, but themselves too) understands Lorna is her own character with her own worth, not some guy's girlfriend that bends spoons sometimes when she's not crying on his shoulder for him to save her. It's necessary to counteract decades of misuse. Pulling that off requires either a consistent amount of good work over time, or an absolutely massive burst of good work all at once for at least a few years.

    You also make a good point about how Lorna seems to get sabotaged at almost every step. When you factor in the "Magneto was a robot" claim in the beginning, you could almost say that Lorna constantly getting sabotaged by Marvel is their original sin with her. Maybe Marvel's incapable of doing right by her because deep down they think sabotaging her opportunities is the right way to treat her. They did manage to correct that specific mistake, but they still have all the other mistakes that came after.
    I can also be reached on BlueSky and Tumblr. Avatar by kahlart.

    Ghosts of Genosha minicomic focused on Polaris, written by me and drawn by Fin_NoMore.

    Polaris 50th anniversary minicomic written by me and drawn by Mlad!

    Gallery of Polaris commissions (without NSFW or minicomics)

  10. #880

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    This piece I commissioned was reblogged on Femslash Revolution, a Tumblr blog focused on femslash, today.





    The same blog also reblogged this image of Lorna and Jean dolls that a fan made back in 2015.



    I'm pretty happy to see more interest in Lorna x Jean femslashy options, and I hope to see more in the future.

    I've also seen a few pieces of Jean x Storm, and that's all fine by me too. My personal preference is seeing Lorna and Jean as a couple, but if Jean and Storm are a couple, Lorna could bump up to Jean's best friend again and be the one Jean talks to about things that she can't talk about with Storm. Though the impression I get from the Storm fans I've seen so far has been that they prefer Storm with Black Panther as queen of Wakanda. What I've seen may or may not be accurate to what a majority of Storm fans would want.
    I can also be reached on BlueSky and Tumblr. Avatar by kahlart.

    Ghosts of Genosha minicomic focused on Polaris, written by me and drawn by Fin_NoMore.

    Polaris 50th anniversary minicomic written by me and drawn by Mlad!

    Gallery of Polaris commissions (without NSFW or minicomics)

  11. #881
    Invincible Member juan678's Avatar
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    Last edited by juan678; 06-13-2020 at 05:47 PM.

  12. #882

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    Quote Originally Posted by whitecrown View Post
    Considering how much Disney/Marvel likes their movies to cater to China, I wonder if that may inspire them to work in Lorna then.
    The broad theme of Lorna as a political prisoner and mutant rights activist is popular in China to this day. Season one of The Gifted did internationalize some themes that were highly successful from early 2000s Lorna.

    Lets just say from what I have seen Lorna works when she is a political character motivated by life events. When she is written as the girlfriend of X or the daughter of X with no core theme in the background behind it she can have good stories and bad stories, but by in large the character flounders. That was exactly what season two of The Gifted showed and really her last several comic runs showed.

    The mistake writers made was an all or nothing affair that Lorna is entirely steeped in mutant issues or none at all. Its a balance most writers do effectively with her father, but most also have also failed at with her.

    A second mistake is not streamlining her core trauma. I will be blunt... her mind control trauma when written as the core of the character is a curse not a blessing for her. It doesn't provide a motivational direction for the character. It doesn't impact what she thinks about mutant rights, humanity, or the world around her. Its not even helpful in allowing fans to understand Lorna as how many fans can rap their brain around being mentally puppeted?

    Once writers moved away from Genosha as the anchor that kept a core understanding for fans (as well as for writers) her character came unmoored and she lost her voice and any real centering and started to be written around other characters like she was in the 80s and 90s. If Leah and other writers continue what Hickman started a little bit of it will pay off in spades for the character no matter if she is a detective or anything else.
    Last edited by jmc247; 06-14-2020 at 12:37 PM.

  13. #883
    Mighty Member whitecrown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmc247 View Post
    Milligan and Brubaker fell way too hard back on old time Lorna ideas that never really worked in the many times they were tried. From bad mind control plotlines to love triangles with the same old names and then back to the same old ship it was poor and recycled. Her goals and personality was also lacking. Some of the writers last decade had better ideas then others, but her runs often ran into similar problems.



    The mid 2000s would have been a good time to date Wolverine even if it didn't work out as he was everywhere at the same time including the Avengers and that would have opened doors yes. But, I did think Austen had a interesting basis he was building to it that other writers would have picked up on, however its water under the bridge.





    We will see Havok and Lorna together in the X-Swords crossover. I might not like the ship, but I can understand that as the writers of both characters ongoings will want a shot in the arm as will Jordan White which is one of the goals of any x-over. I have no opposition to it under that context.

    At the same point in time I also think that its likely Lorna and Mags go together to Genosha in Empyre X-Men. Again I won't quibble as they have needed to talk about it and I hope they get it given all that is packed into the issues. Lorna was around the X-Men like Jean for over two years that nothing came of her relationship with teen Jean or adult Jean is not a surprise as they didn't think very deep about these things.

    I am just hoping for the comics that they use the current opportunity to test Lorna with a more complex relationship with her teammates and other X-Men then we have seen of late. Otherwise comic Lorna is running in a circle and by the time it is her turn again to interact with Jean and her contemporaries they won't know what to do again.

    Lorna and Rachel had five years together in space as the two x-women there and you had no character development or relationship building between then to speak of. Just two and a half pages of comics mostly talking about their boyfriends among them. That is typical of Lorna relationships and it doesn’t have to be.
    Agreed, although I guess Milligan's best contribution was that it put Lorna on a major X-Men team again. This was the first time (unless you count Austen's run) that Lorna was a standing member of the X-Men since the Silver Age. Of course that didn't last long with Brubaker but I'm not sure if it was his intention or not that Havok, Polaris, and Rachel be stranded in space or if that was editorially mandated.

    I'll need to check out Austen's run again to see more of those Logan/Lorna moments because they must have flown over my head.

    Oh lovely, Alex and Lorna together again (insert sarcasm here). If it helps raise her profile, I'm fine with it I guess but I doubt that'll happen considering it didn't for decades. I'd love to see her and Magnus go to Genosha though. That's long overdue imo. Lorna really should have been part of X-Men Red so she could interact with Jean, Kurt, and Remy and have some sort of confrontation with Cassandra Nova. Writers have never pointed out that Lorna has a significant grudge against Nova for the destruction of Genosha.

    I still can't believe that Lorna was stranded in space for 5 years. And frankly, I don't remember her having any good stories in that time besides maybe meeting Crystal in War of Kings but even that relationship has been nullified now. And even if it hadn't, I doubt anything more would have been done with it to this day.

  14. #884
    Mighty Member whitecrown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by salarta View Post
    Yeah, there's a lot of things they could've done with Lorna and didn't.

    One of the more frustrating things for me in fiction is when it's incredibly obvious something could've been done that wasn't. And by this, I don't mean "I don't like what they did here, my idea is better." Different people have different ideas, and the beauty of fiction is sometimes it can reveal things you wouldn't see yourself. What I mean is when there are huge gaps that could've been covered but weren't, or characters left out of things that they shouldn't be based on their history and the circumstances. Certain things, it shouldn't matter if someone's a fan of the character or not, because objectively the character should be used anyway.



    Yeah, problems aren't the relationships themselves, it's how the relationships are used. If they're used well, it can pay off big time. If they're used poorly, it just drags everything down.

    Lorna's missed out on a lot that could've been done with her father for several decades, but at the same time, she's fortunate that her relationship with Magneto hasn't been tainted by decades of misuse in the same way things with Havok have been. That means it's much easier for writers at Marvel to realize when they make a misstep and course correct. With Havok, it's a hell of a lot harder because many of them have nostalgia muddying their vision of what's good or bad.

    And I think nostalgia is a big component of why people at Marvel seem to have something against Lorna. There's a reason a certain editor kept excluding her as part of the Magnus family when working with Wanda and Pietro, a reason why Marvel keeps acting like she had nothing to do with Genosha, a reason why she's not considered Omega alongside her father despite what past comics have said, and a reason why Lorna's history with Jean, Iceman and the franchise as a whole is constantly ignored. It's all the same reason. People at Marvel have a bad mental image of her from cases where she's been used poorly, vs good mental images of other characters that were treated better, and they don't want to put in the work to break free of those misconceptions or blaze the trail of correcting decades worth of mistakes. Reading a few old comics they liked when they were younger or asking someone that thinks like they do seems to be all they're willing to do to interrogate their own assumptions.



    A Lorna and Havok relationship is something I haven't completely nixed, but it shouldn't happen any time soon. Marvel's tainted it.

    It's odd and annoying, because Marvel will spend 15 years acting like the most devastating thing to ever happen in Lorna's life never happened, or take 43 years to finally tell her origin story... and then they'll turn around and act like Havok kept away from Lorna for 5 years is a "really long time." And I was about to say "maybe for Havok it is," but in all honesty, if Havok not having Lorna around for 5 years is killing him in the eyes of Marvel then Marvel has massive problems with how they see Havok too.

    When the pairing originally split in 2012, I said they should stay apart for roughly 10 years, and a lot more focus should be put on Lorna before bringing them back together (if they're brought back together). That way, Lorna would have decades worth of misuse made up for, and a solid foundation for them to have an actual good relationship instead of repeating past mistakes. If Marvel had stuck to that, the pairing might've been ready two years from now. Instead, they just had to misuse her yet again in 2017 to promote Havok, and they keep doing it whenever they think they can sneak it in. Which means another 10 years if Marvel kept them apart starting now... which we already know they won't, thanks to X of Swords.

    The only "shortcut" I can see for Marvel getting them back together sooner than 10 years would require them to do way, way more with Lorna than they're willing to do. It'd require a Polaris solo ongoing, HUGE presence for her on at least one Marvel-wide event (as in, one of the most important characters of the whole event), a prominent role in the MCU, and essentially the kind of push they've been giving Scarlet Witch this past decade. All without Havok. Marvel wouldn't do even one of those things, as they've made clear in their comments and projects involving her (or not involving her, in some cases) for the past decade.

    Why so much? Because for the relationship to be truly viable, Marvel would have to make sure everyone (not only their audience, but themselves too) understands Lorna is her own character with her own worth, not some guy's girlfriend that bends spoons sometimes when she's not crying on his shoulder for him to save her. It's necessary to counteract decades of misuse. Pulling that off requires either a consistent amount of good work over time, or an absolutely massive burst of good work all at once for at least a few years.

    You also make a good point about how Lorna seems to get sabotaged at almost every step. When you factor in the "Magneto was a robot" claim in the beginning, you could almost say that Lorna constantly getting sabotaged by Marvel is their original sin with her. Maybe Marvel's incapable of doing right by her because deep down they think sabotaging her opportunities is the right way to treat her. They did manage to correct that specific mistake, but they still have all the other mistakes that came after.
    I understand your comment on fiction completely and I feel as though your point could describe Lorna for most of her publication history sadly. Starting from the Silver Age all the way to the fact that she should hate Cassandra Nova for what she did to Genosha but I don't think I've ever heard Lorna even mention her name. Even in X-Men: The End, I have no memory of Lorna having any confrontation with her.

    Nostalgia has definitely set up Lorna to fail because like you said, if she's remembered, it's for being crazy or brainwashed or flat out absent from the picture. She's not part of the 05 or the Giant-Size X-Men team or the Outback X-Men or the Blue/Gold teams. Her affiliation with X-Factor in the 90s is why she got stuck with X-Factor again during Schism with all the B-Listers instead of being part of Uncanny X-Force, Wolverine and the X-Men, or some other main X-Men book at the time. This also impacts her appearances in the cartoons so you don't have a generation growing up with her. WATXM included her over Havok which was a plus but she was overshadowed by Wanda and the relationship with Gambit was never brought to fruition. Jean's female friendships tend to be ignored anyway to deal with the love triangle nonsense so that hurts Lorna and now that Iceman is gay, that romantic relationship with Lorna is also out of the picture (unless the MCU introduced a closeted Bobby who starts off dating Lorna).

    I used to like Alex and Lorna together but it's hard to support them considering the long history of Alex throwing Lorna under the bus. When she's clearly possessed by Malice and not at fault for her actions, Alex still somehow blames Lorna and turns to Maddie for comfort. And when Maddie is gone, he's out mourning her by hooking up with some other redhead in that Wolverine and Havok miniseries. Then in the 2000s, he dumps her for Nurse Annie of all people and we're supposed to believe he got his happy ending and root for him whereas Lorna is villified as the woman scorned. Something tells me Marvel is fine including Alex without Lorna considering his time in the Outback X-Men, Remender's Uncanny Avengers and Axis, X-Men Evolution, X-Men Legends, X-Men: Next Dimenson, Marvel Ultimate Alliance 2, X-Men: First Class, etc. There's a whole plethora of appearances for him on the comics and other media that don't feature Lorna at all and if the MCU rumors are true, that may very well continue. I guess if his profile was raised enough and Lorna could benefit from that by being attached to him, I could accept their relationship again. I definitely can't see Alex and Lorna being kept apart for 10 years. For that matter, what's the longest they've ever been separated from each other in the comics?

    Your comment about Lorna bending spoons when she's not crying for Alex to save her reminds me of the issue where she's first possessed by Malice and crying behind some rock as Sabretooth stalks her, wishing Alex could be there to kiss the fear away or something like that. I never understood how the end of the issue revealed that Malice had been in control over her the whole issue because that thought bubble clearly didn't convey that unless Malice was just acting out how she felt Lorna would act and think.

  15. #885
    Mighty Member whitecrown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by salarta View Post
    This piece I commissioned was reblogged on Femslash Revolution, a Tumblr blog focused on femslash, today.





    The same blog also reblogged this image of Lorna and Jean dolls that a fan made back in 2015.



    I'm pretty happy to see more interest in Lorna x Jean femslashy options, and I hope to see more in the future.

    I've also seen a few pieces of Jean x Storm, and that's all fine by me too. My personal preference is seeing Lorna and Jean as a couple, but if Jean and Storm are a couple, Lorna could bump up to Jean's best friend again and be the one Jean talks to about things that she can't talk about with Storm. Though the impression I get from the Storm fans I've seen so far has been that they prefer Storm with Black Panther as queen of Wakanda. What I've seen may or may not be accurate to what a majority of Storm fans would want.
    Thank you for posting that! I've long been enchanted by your avatar pic and was hoping to see the full image. And I love those vintage Barbie dolls. Gosh, I would love something like that to show Jean and Lorna off in their 60s/early 70s time period.

    I'm starting to realize that Jean gets shipped with a lot of female characters in the fandom actually. Storm, Lorna, and Wanda come to mind. From what I've seen of Storm fans they are mostly mixed on who she should end up with. A lot of people want her with Black Panther again particularly because it'll raise her profile because in an ironic twist, she's no longer the A-lister she used to be during the Claremont run and hasn't been for two decades now. Some like her with Wolverine, others want her with Yukio and some refuse to accept Storm as bisexual.

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