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  1. #901
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmc247 View Post


    By RamArtwork



    By Arkensteller



    With Jean and Lorna Marvel has tried every decade or two and failed to make their relationship interesting. Ironically Lorna and Rachel fell into the very same problem and were actually on the same team for five years in space with two pages of panels between them and mainly talking about their significant others. That was exactly what Jean and Lorna fell into and their their interaction had zero conflict or drama to it so writers stopped writing them together. It will be interesting to see if Leah manages to make Lorna and Rachel interacting more interesting then stale bread, because their space writers didn't manage it.
    Love those pieces especially the first one with the Sentinel. There is so much fanart of Magnus with Sentinels but rarely any with Lorna.

    I hope Lorna and Rachel get a better opportunity this time around but I'm not holding my breath knowing Marvel.

  2. #902
    Spectacular Member BESTXMAN's Avatar
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    I cant be the only one who got some weird vibes between Cyke and Polaris after x-men #1. Theres something going on there. Sinister said Cyclops was up to no good on the down low in sinister secrets. And I dont think its with emma.

  3. #903
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    I remember there was lots of talk about Lorna and Scott as well when that came out. Personally I hope not because if there's one Summers brother who is even more destructive to his love interests than Alex, it's Scott.

  4. #904
    Incredible Member Dipter's Avatar
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    I hope there's nothing romantic going on between those two, but at the same time it would be kind of funny if Lorna was messing around with Scott just to spite Alex.

  5. #905
    Mighty Member houndsofluv's Avatar
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    the last thing Lorna needs rn is a tryst with a summers brother lol. I loved those scenes though , I hope we see more of them as confidantes almost by necessity

  6. #906
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    The only interaction I want to see of Lorna with the Summers boys is her keeping them in chains lol.

  7. #907

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    Quote Originally Posted by whitecrown View Post
    I have mixed feelings on Wanda being Magneto's daughter. The mutant connection has almost never helped her character and in fact gotten her tons of flack from X-Fans. Not only has it not served Wanda but I feel like it also hurt Lorna in the long run since for decades if was the Maximoff Twins who were known as Magneto's children thus making Lorna even more superfluous. The only aspect of Wanda being Magneto's daughter that I really like is her being sisters with Lorna. That I did want to see way more of but of course there's barely been anything like that in the comics. And what little there was felt cheapened with the retcon shortly afterwards. At least we have fanart of Wanda and Lorna together. And honestly they don't even need to be sisters for that relationship because Jean, Wanda, and Lorna are the original three silver age mutants. It's almost criminal that nothing has ever been done with these three together besides this.
    Wanda fans are better judges of what's best for Wanda, but I think it's better if Wanda is Magneto's daughter. It's more a matter of doing it well. We've seen a lot of fandom that likes the family all as a family in fan-made scenarios where they're handled well for a change.

    However, if we really really really needed the twins not being Magneto's kids, then there's still a potential opening for changes to the twins' bloodline to where they're siblings on Lorna's mother's side. Literally the only information we have about that side of Lorna's family is what we saw in X-Factor #243 in 2012 of who her mother is. Mr. and Mrs. Dane are foster parents from her step-father Arnold's side.

    What we got of Lorna with Wanda in All-New X-Factor #14 was undermined in multiple ways. Marvel withheld the cover until about a month before release. They made it the second issue of a double shipping month (comics that ship twice in the same month usually have lower sales for the second issue of the month). They didn't promote it. In spite of those drawbacks, ANXF #14 actually sold a few hundred more than ANXF #13, demonstrating that interest in the sisters is a big boost to sales. Simultaneously, Marvel was trying to push Enchantress as a "replacement" for Lorna visually, as demonstrated with the Axis #1 variant cover they put out several months before release that recolored Enchantress' hair green and Wanda's red to blur the lines. Marvel later tried to promote a new "sister" named Luminous for Wanda and Pietro that had an all blue costume and hair.

    There's a lot of ways in which Marvel refuses to acknowledge Lorna's worth and give her proper use, in other words. They have a tendency to try to pass anything meaningful for her off to new characters, or characters they think are "more deserving," and erase her so they can throw her into limbo or limit her to Havok's girlfriend.

    If Marvel were run properly, Lorna's history as a silver age mutant would mean more to them. But, of course, Marvel isn't run properly, making it a moot point.

    Quote Originally Posted by whitecrown View Post
    I agree that Lorna needs her iconic green costume just for viability amongst fans, but I've never liked the monochromatic look. Something like purple or gold or even silver helps to balance her out. I like the armored look but definitely with the cape for that fantasy knight vibe like you said. Although it may clash right now with Betsy as Captain Britain especially if that's a permanent change.
    Various fans like different costumes and looks for Lorna, and I think many are going by what they like the appearance of, but I think that discounts the importance of consistent iconography for a character like her. It's not like Marvel's going to put her in a costume and think "Hey, let's finally treat her the way we should've treated her for decades." Even if one thinks the coming X-Factor is going to do things good for Lorna (I really don't), the costume change is going to undermine it. I've already talked with other Lorna fans that didn't know X-Factor was happening and she's on it. The price you pay for a costume change of loss of visibility.

    There could be some overlap in looks as long as it's handled carefully and well with respect to each character. Enchantress and Polaris have very similar costumes, and Enchantress was created with her costume before Lorna. They can co-exist whenever Marvel doesn't try to misuse one against the other.

    Quote Originally Posted by whitecrown View Post
    In Lorna's case, had she been conscious and trying to fight back against Magnus and Alex, the cover could be somewhat redeemed. The fact that she's robbed of all agency and literally being fought over as she's unconscious and not even aware of what's going on just makes it a thousand times worse, especially since it exemplifies just how she's been treated in the comics for decades now. That cover is a perfect allegory for Lorna's publication history. I certainly hope Jean wouldn't get a cover like that but like I said, she was pretty hated by Marvel editorial and writers during the 2000s to mid-2010s so I wouldn't put it past them either. They've shown enmity towards practically any female character whether it's Lorna, Jean, Wanda, Ororo, etc. and that's just from the X-Universe.
    What you point out is why that cover has been my go-to visual example of Marvel's attitude toward Lorna. It's horrendous, it's only 2 years old, it doesn't use any of Lorna's actual history or experiences, and Marvel's done absolutely nothing to try to make up for it. Someone drew that cover (and was probably told to draw it that way), and someone approved it for publishing as the official cover for an issue of X-Men Blue. It's a singular encapsulation of all my problems with the company.

    But yes, you also do make a good point about enmity toward women in general on the X-books. Notice how the oneshots during Dawn of X are primarily men. Only two are focused on women, and the first of them actually pairs Jean and Emma - something Marvel didn't feel they had to do with the men, implying they think it takes both Jean and Emma to equal the value of a single male character.

    Quote Originally Posted by whitecrown View Post
    Considering how a character like the Invisible Woman just got her own miniseries, I definitely can't see Marvel prioritizing Lorna anytime soon, not even for a one-shot or limited series because they've made it very clear that they have no interest in doing anything with her. At best she can be recognized in a B-lister book with other B-listers and claim that's all the representation she needs and even that is too good for us apparently.

    I agree that I don't think Bunn was much interested in Lorna besides how she could help Magneto. And X-Men Blue proved the same with Alex.
    At this point, I wouldn't even say Marvel sees Lorna as a B-lister. X-Factor is a fringe satellite book with lower tier characters, and Lorna's not even leading the book or doing more important things outside it. Pair that with how Marvel left her off the X-women variant cover, had no real role for her in HoX/PoX, made Magneto an Omega but not Lorna (despite Omega criteria and past comics basically saying Lorna has to be considered one if Magneto is), and various other things, and I'd say they see her as a D-lister or lower.

    Lorna's best path forward in my opinion is focusing on her fandom instead of trying to win over people at Marvel. My experience with Marvel has been one of them repeatedly putting the character down in various ways interspersed with the occasional tiny bread crumb they think should be enough. They'll ignore her as part of the Magnus family, then let her led a book that they won't promote, then give her a rare actually good moment with her family in an AU, then throw her into limbo for two years, then bring her back only so she can be used to promote Havok. Then act like using her as a supporting character for some other character's book/team is doing fans a favor.

    Whereas fandom actually acknowledges how long Lorna's known Jean, that she's a silver age mutant, the wealth of potential behind Lorna and Wanda as sisters, etc.
    I can also be reached on Twitter and WordPress.

    Polaris 50th anniversary minicomic written by me and drawn by Mlad, now complete!

    Gallery of Polaris commissions (without NSFW or minicomics)

  8. #908

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    Quote Originally Posted by BESTXMAN View Post
    I cant be the only one who got some weird vibes between Cyke and Polaris after x-men #1. Theres something going on there. Sinister said Cyclops was up to no good on the down low in sinister secrets. And I dont think its with emma.
    Quote Originally Posted by whitecrown View Post
    I remember there was lots of talk about Lorna and Scott as well when that came out. Personally I hope not because if there's one Summers brother who is even more destructive to his love interests than Alex, it's Scott.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dipter View Post
    I hope there's nothing romantic going on between those two, but at the same time it would be kind of funny if Lorna was messing around with Scott just to spite Alex.
    Quote Originally Posted by houndsofluv View Post
    the last thing Lorna needs rn is a tryst with a summers brother lol. I loved those scenes though , I hope we see more of them as confidantes almost by necessity
    I remember those discussions. A lot of the idea behind it being where Cyclops is Xavier's heir, and Lorna is Magneto's heir, therefore they could work as a couple.

    Which I think goes right back to support for Lorna x Jean. Jean was seen in many ways as Xavier's heir moreso than Cyclops, especially with her powers, which acts as a perfect mirror to Lorna following in Magneto's footsteps. Simply make them a couple instead. As far as children if that's somehow important? Well, it's a fantasy scenario, it's always possible to come up with a way where a woman can impregnate another woman. If you're supporting HoX/PoX/DoX, then things like making Moira into a mutant or the resurrection process already basically say it's possible.
    I can also be reached on Twitter and WordPress.

    Polaris 50th anniversary minicomic written by me and drawn by Mlad, now complete!

    Gallery of Polaris commissions (without NSFW or minicomics)

  9. #909
    Mighty Member houndsofluv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by salarta View Post
    Various fans like different costumes and looks for Lorna, and I think many are going by what they like the appearance of, but I think that discounts the importance of consistent iconography for a character like her. It's not like Marvel's going to put her in a costume and think "Hey, let's finally treat her the way we should've treated her for decades." Even if one thinks the coming X-Factor is going to do things good for Lorna (I really don't), the costume change is going to undermine it. I've already talked with other Lorna fans that didn't know X-Factor was happening and she's on it. The price you pay for a costume change of loss of visibility.
    .
    I've gotta be honest, if they didn't know Lorna was in X-Factor by now they must not be paying too much attention. Which is totally fine, obv it shouldn't be expected of fans to stay sucked into the comic news cycle 24/7, I just dont think her new digs should take the blame for that. she's been front and centre in almost all promotional materials, present in most preview art, on variants , etc. And what other x-woman has green hair ? lol

    I hear your concerns abt the costume though and I say fear not ! they seem to be staying true to the "mutants wear mutants clothes" decree - in the Carlos Gomez WIPs we've seen, probably from XoS, she's still in her most recent (and recognizable) costume

  10. #910

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    More Carlos Gomez WIP


  11. #911
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    Quote Originally Posted by salarta View Post
    Wanda fans are better judges of what's best for Wanda, but I think it's better if Wanda is Magneto's daughter. It's more a matter of doing it well. We've seen a lot of fandom that likes the family all as a family in fan-made scenarios where they're handled well for a change.

    However, if we really really really needed the twins not being Magneto's kids, then there's still a potential opening for changes to the twins' bloodline to where they're siblings on Lorna's mother's side. Literally the only information we have about that side of Lorna's family is what we saw in X-Factor #243 in 2012 of who her mother is. Mr. and Mrs. Dane are foster parents from her step-father Arnold's side.

    What we got of Lorna with Wanda in All-New X-Factor #14 was undermined in multiple ways. Marvel withheld the cover until about a month before release. They made it the second issue of a double shipping month (comics that ship twice in the same month usually have lower sales for the second issue of the month). They didn't promote it. In spite of those drawbacks, ANXF #14 actually sold a few hundred more than ANXF #13, demonstrating that interest in the sisters is a big boost to sales. Simultaneously, Marvel was trying to push Enchantress as a "replacement" for Lorna visually, as demonstrated with the Axis #1 variant cover they put out several months before release that recolored Enchantress' hair green and Wanda's red to blur the lines. Marvel later tried to promote a new "sister" named Luminous for Wanda and Pietro that had an all blue costume and hair.

    There's a lot of ways in which Marvel refuses to acknowledge Lorna's worth and give her proper use, in other words. They have a tendency to try to pass anything meaningful for her off to new characters, or characters they think are "more deserving," and erase her so they can throw her into limbo or limit her to Havok's girlfriend.

    If Marvel were run properly, Lorna's history as a silver age mutant would mean more to them. But, of course, Marvel isn't run properly, making it a moot point.



    Various fans like different costumes and looks for Lorna, and I think many are going by what they like the appearance of, but I think that discounts the importance of consistent iconography for a character like her. It's not like Marvel's going to put her in a costume and think "Hey, let's finally treat her the way we should've treated her for decades." Even if one thinks the coming X-Factor is going to do things good for Lorna (I really don't), the costume change is going to undermine it. I've already talked with other Lorna fans that didn't know X-Factor was happening and she's on it. The price you pay for a costume change of loss of visibility.

    There could be some overlap in looks as long as it's handled carefully and well with respect to each character. Enchantress and Polaris have very similar costumes, and Enchantress was created with her costume before Lorna. They can co-exist whenever Marvel doesn't try to misuse one against the other.



    What you point out is why that cover has been my go-to visual example of Marvel's attitude toward Lorna. It's horrendous, it's only 2 years old, it doesn't use any of Lorna's actual history or experiences, and Marvel's done absolutely nothing to try to make up for it. Someone drew that cover (and was probably told to draw it that way), and someone approved it for publishing as the official cover for an issue of X-Men Blue. It's a singular encapsulation of all my problems with the company.

    But yes, you also do make a good point about enmity toward women in general on the X-books. Notice how the oneshots during Dawn of X are primarily men. Only two are focused on women, and the first of them actually pairs Jean and Emma - something Marvel didn't feel they had to do with the men, implying they think it takes both Jean and Emma to equal the value of a single male character.



    At this point, I wouldn't even say Marvel sees Lorna as a B-lister. X-Factor is a fringe satellite book with lower tier characters, and Lorna's not even leading the book or doing more important things outside it. Pair that with how Marvel left her off the X-women variant cover, had no real role for her in HoX/PoX, made Magneto an Omega but not Lorna (despite Omega criteria and past comics basically saying Lorna has to be considered one if Magneto is), and various other things, and I'd say they see her as a D-lister or lower.

    Lorna's best path forward in my opinion is focusing on her fandom instead of trying to win over people at Marvel. My experience with Marvel has been one of them repeatedly putting the character down in various ways interspersed with the occasional tiny bread crumb they think should be enough. They'll ignore her as part of the Magnus family, then let her led a book that they won't promote, then give her a rare actually good moment with her family in an AU, then throw her into limbo for two years, then bring her back only so she can be used to promote Havok. Then act like using her as a supporting character for some other character's book/team is doing fans a favor.

    Whereas fandom actually acknowledges how long Lorna's known Jean, that she's a silver age mutant, the wealth of potential behind Lorna and Wanda as sisters, etc.
    I do like seeing all the fanart of House of M with Magneto, Lorna, Wanda, and Pietro especially since the fandom has frankly done more with this family than the comic writers ever did.

    But I really like your idea of making the twins related to Lorna through Susanna Dare and not Magnus. That would be a final kick to Magneto that he's been excluded from his own family tree in a way and I've always wanted to know more about Lorna's mother's side of the family, the adoption, and how Zala Dane came into the picture.

    Wow, I knew Marvel was petty but to go out of their way to sabotage Wanda and Lorna's meeting. Shouldn't have put it beneath them. I remember the issue of Lorna's origin was heavily promoted but I remember next-to-nothing about the issue with Lorna and Wanda meeting. I didn't even realized it had occurred until after it came out and people were discussing it on Tumblr. I'm so glad it backfired on Marvel and the issue actually outsold the preceding one. The funny thing about you bringing up the Enchantress is that if you look at her appreciation thread, her fandom has very similar feelings towards her as Lorna's fandom does towards Lorna, the same belief that their character has been squandered and wasted by Marvel for years now and nobody is willing to do anything with her. And I could just see Marvel claiming that the reason they don't promote Lorna is because they have Enchantress so one green-clad lady is enough, nevermind that there's barely anything similar in their appearance beyond one color and that they both wear a headdress. Particularly if you compare Silver Age Polaris to Silver Age Enchantress, there's even less in common between the two appearances. I remember that abomination that was Luminous and to the best of my knowledge, nothing's been done with her and for good reason.

    And I think another issue is that a lot of casual fans also only associate Lorna with Alex and they don't see anything problematic in their relationship or towards Lorna's character since that's being discussed in the Angel thread.

    If there is a character who gets confused with Lorna it's probably Abigail Brand. She's pretty obscure so when she does show up in X-Men comics, I know most people assume it's Lorna and wonder why Lorna acts or feels so different. I think even when Abigail showed up in Kitty's Bachelorette party, if you look at social media, most people labeled her as Lorna so I guess the free promotion is good for Lorna at least. So I can understand why the new costume in X-Factor just confuses fans.

    I'd very much like to see a new cover with Lorna using her magnetic powers to hold Alex and Magnus in place and that would be a much-needed improvement with her venting her feelings out on them and they would take it and listen. Rather than being manhandled and unconscious in their toxic struggle over her. And speaking of Giant-Size X-Men's debut issue, note that when they picked two female characters, the picked the two who have the most enmity of any female characters in Marvel. Not Jean with Lorna, Ororo, or Rachel or any other female friendship but the one that mostly male fans love to associate with a catfight over their incel hero who they live vicariously through. I didn't find that issue and its mere existence to be very progressive or feminist at all because it was clear who it was geared towards and it wasn't female fans.

    Which X-Women variant cover was that? What did they snub her from now? I don't understand the intention to make Magneto an omega (when past comics have outright stated he isn't one) but then to refuse to give Lorna the same classification when past comics have also stated that she's on his level. They did the same with Rachel but not giving her omega-level status even though Jean is and the funny thing is that Rachel was the first ever mutant called an omega-level mutant. And I agree that X-Factor might not even be a book for B-Listers at this point. D-List is more like it at best.

    I like your point that the best option for Lorna is to focus on the fandom instead of how Marvel will treat her because we all know inevitably what they're going to do with her. They're so predictable and they have been for years now.

  12. #912
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luckystar. View Post
    More Carlos Gomez WIP

    Love. Although when her headdress is portrayed that way, I can see why people might think she's the Enchantress instead.

  13. #913
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    Quote Originally Posted by salarta View Post
    I remember those discussions. A lot of the idea behind it being where Cyclops is Xavier's heir, and Lorna is Magneto's heir, therefore they could work as a couple.

    Which I think goes right back to support for Lorna x Jean. Jean was seen in many ways as Xavier's heir moreso than Cyclops, especially with her powers, which acts as a perfect mirror to Lorna following in Magneto's footsteps. Simply make them a couple instead. As far as children if that's somehow important? Well, it's a fantasy scenario, it's always possible to come up with a way where a woman can impregnate another woman. If you're supporting HoX/PoX/DoX, then things like making Moira into a mutant or the resurrection process already basically say it's possible.
    Honestly, even in Claremont's run it was always Jean touted as Xavier's heir and there were signs and hints back then that Wolverine was the one to take on Xavier's legacy rather than Scott. Scott has clearly been positioned as Magneto 2.0 for the past two decades or so and that's gotten stale fast. It also doesn't likely gel with whatever plans they have for him in the MCU so I say scrap him and give Lorna the role. Against Jean or even Logan, because she's Magneto's natural successor in every shape and form. And if there's romantic tension between her and her rival (such as Jean), that's even better. People love to ship Magneto and Charles in the First Class films together so let's give them more fodder with Jean and Lorna.

  14. #914
    Incredible Member Cruelrain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmc247 View Post
    Amazing art!

    After seeing The External Candra i can't stop thinking that her costume looks like a fusion between Wanda and Polaris lol

  15. #915
    Incredible Member Cruelrain's Avatar
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    When i was little i loved the Scarlet Witch and Polaris moments in the Wolverine and the x-men show, i always feel like they were matching costumes and headpieces because in reality her costumes look very similar.

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