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  1. #961
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    Here’s a question.

    If Lorna were to enter a relationship right now, even casual, who should it be with?

    But no Alex, Bobby, Gambit (married), Jean (the poly is booked). Someone available.

    It can be male or female. And work within the confides of the ongoing Krakoa narrative.
    Last edited by Will Evans; 06-29-2020 at 10:26 AM.

  2. #962
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will Evans View Post
    Here’s a question.

    If Lorna were to enter a relationship right now, even casual, who should it be with?

    But no Alex, Bobby, Gambit (married), Jean (the poly is booked). Someone available.

    It can be male or female. And work within the confides of the ongoing Krakoa narrative.
    I think she could use something more political then a blog standard romance. As in something that let’s her cross connect to other areas of the X-Men and show how she is more then a shipper character. Poccy and Emma are two names that haven’t been talked about. Lorna shouldn’t have to sleep with someone to build a relationship with them, Marvel so far doesn’t agree with my viewpoint on that.
    Last edited by jmc247; 06-29-2020 at 01:13 PM.

  3. #963

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    I disagree with "the poly is booked" concerning Jean. For one, Jean's only been shown as in relationship dynamics with Cyclops and Wolverine, meaning only men so far. Someone might argue Emma too, but I haven't seen anything comics-wise to back it up. For another, poly means "more than one partner," meaning Jean could have three, four, five, etc. If she was exclusive to just one person, like Gambit, that might (I stress might) be a different matter.

    But to answer the question and take it by its criteria, if Lorna couldn't be with Jean, then I think the next best one down is Emma. They were both involved in Genosha and survived it, Emma has a little insight into what Lorna's been through PTSD wise (her past dismissiveness/mockery of Lorna's struggles in the 00s could be taken as a side of her that secretly cares and is trying to stay distant), and the show Gifted gave good fandom in-roads for that pairing. Lorna's history with Jean could also still come into play this way, given how Marvel's wanted to play up friction between Jean and Emma. The key though would be Marvel not treating it like there's a fight for control over who gets to "own" Lorna in the same way Marvel made that mistake with X-Men Blue over Havok and Magneto.

    I also think children or "children" of peers should be completely avoided as partners. There are only two ways I can see this coming off depending on how Lorna's treated, both of them bad. Bad way #1 is Lorna looking like she's preying on one of her long-time peers' kids, taking advantage of them in some sense. That's if Lorna's history is given proper weight. Bad way #2, if her history isn't given proper weight, is Lorna coming off like one of the kids herself. The moment she's "dating" Rachel or Daken or whoever is the moment Lorna's history with their parents gets devalued even further than Marvel's already devalued it, and even more of her past experiences with them are treated like they never happened.

    Imagine if Emma Frost dated teen Jean when teen Jean was around. Wouldn't that have seemed off?

    Likewise, I wouldn't support Lorna dating Xavier because Xavier has always been a mentor and father figure relative to her, and it would come off more like Xavier's taking advantage of Lorna (a criticism people have made of notions of Xavier with Jean). Ditto for Moira, given Xavier and Magneto are Moira's peers. I would, however, be fine with Lorna dating Legion, as Legion is Xavier's kid and therefore a peer.

    Edit: Also, Lorna is at a severe disadvantage compared to her peers in how Marvel sees and treats her as a whole. She has a long history of being treated like she exists to promote Havok, something Marvel's tried to sneak in multiple times these past few years. It's hard not to expect that Marvel writing her in relationship with one of her peers' kids wouldn't be primarily to promote the kid.
    Last edited by salarta; 06-29-2020 at 01:52 PM.
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  4. #964
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    Quote Originally Posted by salarta View Post
    I disagree with "the poly is booked" concerning Jean. For one, Jean's only been shown as in relationship dynamics with Cyclops and Wolverine, meaning only men so far. Someone might argue Emma too, but I haven't seen anything comics-wise to back it up. For another, poly means "more than one partner," meaning Jean could have three, four, five, etc. If she was exclusive to just one person, like Gambit, that might (I stress might) be a different matter.

    But to answer the question and take it by its criteria, if Lorna couldn't be with Jean, then I think the next best one down is Emma. They were both involved in Genosha and survived it, Emma has a little insight into what Lorna's been through PTSD wise (her past dismissiveness/mockery of Lorna's struggles in the 00s could be taken as a side of her that secretly cares and is trying to stay distant), and the show Gifted gave good fandom in-roads for that pairing. Lorna's history with Jean could also still come into play this way, given how Marvel's wanted to play up friction between Jean and Emma. The key though would be Marvel not treating it like there's a fight for control over who gets to "own" Lorna in the same way Marvel made that mistake with X-Men Blue over Havok and Magneto.

    I also think children or "children" of peers should be completely avoided as partners. There are only two ways I can see this coming off depending on how Lorna's treated, both of them bad. Bad way #1 is Lorna looking like she's preying on one of her long-time peers' kids, taking advantage of them in some sense. That's if Lorna's history is given proper weight. Bad way #2, if her history isn't given proper weight, is Lorna coming off like one of the kids herself. The moment she's "dating" Rachel or Daken or whoever is the moment Lorna's history with their parents gets devalued even further than Marvel's already devalued it, and even more of her past experiences with them are treated like they never happened.

    Imagine if Emma Frost dated teen Jean when teen Jean was around. Wouldn't that have seemed off?

    Likewise, I wouldn't support Lorna dating Xavier because Xavier has always been a mentor and father figure relative to her, and it would come off more like Xavier's taking advantage of Lorna (a criticism people have made of notions of Xavier with Jean). Ditto for Moira, given Xavier and Magneto are Moira's peers. I would, however, be fine with Lorna dating Legion, as Legion is Xavier's kid and therefore a peer.

    Edit: Also, Lorna is at a severe disadvantage compared to her peers in how Marvel sees and treats her as a whole. She has a long history of being treated like she exists to promote Havok, something Marvel's tried to sneak in multiple times these past few years. It's hard not to expect that Marvel writing her in relationship with one of her peers' kids wouldn't be primarily to promote the kid.
    I don’t know about that. For instance, I don’t think Lorna dating Siryn messes up her friendship with Sean.

    Just think of the times Logan has boned Mystique knowing she’s Kurt’s mom or Rogue’s foster mom.

    Same thing with Bobby and Mystique.

    Or even Rogue to Lorna, when she dated Magento.

    One thing I feel sorry for fans of Lorna, is that even in altered realities, Lorna never gets to have a different lover just to see a new perspective.

    Age of Apocalypse, Age of X, Age of X-Man. Lorna was a minor character or just wasn’t around for it. Meanwhile you can have Jean with Logan or Bishop. Storm with Quicksilver or Namor. Betsy with Blob of all people.

    Stranger things have happened. Did anyone ever think we’d get Sabretooth and Monet?
    Last edited by Will Evans; 06-29-2020 at 02:57 PM.

  5. #965

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    I never saw Rogue as in the same vein as Jean and Lorna. Same with Storm. To me, they're more like loose free agents relative to Xavier, Magneto, Moira, etc. It might be different to me if Rogue had something of a father or mother figure dynamic with one of them, but she doesn't.

    Mystique is a weird situation. Her treatment across media tends to drift from what I've seen. Sometimes she's on par with Xavier and Magneto, sometimes she's more like an "older peer" of her own kids. As someone who's not a hardcore X-Men fan, it seems to me like Marvel's been shifting her closer to Xavier and Magneto over time (which, IMO, is more appropriate).

    Who knows, maybe my views will change, but this is where I am now.

    And if I'm being honest, the expectation that Marvel would misuse and devalue Lorna more than they already have through such a relationship is not a small chunk of my views. We've seen Marvel repeatedly take things from Lorna and hand them off to other characters (or try to do it). We know Marvel doesn't have the necessary interest in understanding Lorna or her history to navigate tricky dynamics. We also saw Rachel used on the all-female X-Men comic back in 2013 to acknowledge her as a meaningful woman in the franchise, while Lorna's been treated like a lesser fringe character for the past ~10 years, including being completely excluded from the recent X-women variant cover.

    What I've seen (or rather, not) of views concerning Lorna on the coming X-Factor book doesn't help. I'm not exactly stoked to see what dynamics might come out of an "understanding" of Lorna that's apparently limited to "she was Havok's girlfriend."

    I never saw anything wrong with Betsy x Blob - and I'm not saying you did either. Plus in that scenario, Betsy's with a character that's existed since the very start of the franchise, not far off the mark from the O5 itself. Quite different from if a Blob Jr. existed and Betsy dated Blob Jr.

    I do wish Lorna got to date someone that isn't Havok for once in her over 50 years of existence. But I also don't want that someone else to be so toxic and damaging for her that it's essentially Havok 2.0 or worse.
    Last edited by salarta; 06-29-2020 at 06:14 PM.
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  6. #966
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    What about Polaris and Aurora?

  7. #967
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will Evans View Post
    Here’s a question.

    If Lorna were to enter a relationship right now, even casual, who should it be with?

    But no Alex, Bobby, Gambit (married), Jean (the poly is booked). Someone available.

    It can be male or female. And work within the confides of the ongoing Krakoa narrative.
    I always shipped her with Nightcrawler,strange perhaps but I like that they seem a yin to each other's Yang.Like he is a pacifist,she's more of a warrior or easily provoked.He seems devout yet fun and adventurous.She seems to be more serious and laconic.I don't know I feel like they have a lot in common a sense of loyalty,conviction,a good sense of justice.Plus they'd look great together not the typical brunette/blonde with a joe six pack pairing...they're my ship

  8. #968
    Mighty Member houndsofluv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will Evans View Post
    What about Polaris and Aurora?
    I would love this
    Last edited by houndsofluv; 06-30-2020 at 09:59 AM.

  9. #969
    Astonishing Member Soulsword323's Avatar
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    Lorna should be enjoying the company of several different people. After being dedicated to the same dude, she's earned it.

  10. #970
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    Besides Havok, Guido, Random and Iceman, has any other person actually ever pursued Lorna?

    I can’t think of any.

  11. #971
    Spectacular Member AZPolaris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulsword323 View Post
    Lorna should be enjoying the company of several different people. After being dedicated to the same dude, she's earned it.
    Yup! To tie Lorna to a relationship is the LAST thing she needs! I don't see Leah doing that, either. I really think we're going to get to see Lorna finding herself. This means who she is not who she is with.

  12. #972
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will Evans View Post
    Besides Havok, Guido, Random and Iceman, has any other person actually ever pursued Lorna?

    I can’t think of any.
    If you are counting Guido and Random which really only got to the point of some flirting you would really have to include Gambit and Wolverine in the X-Men Reload era. Austen had some good themes building with Lorna and Wolverine that I am not sure would work as well now as they would have in 2004.

    With Iceman I warned fans who wanted him full gay instead of bi that it would be like they never interacted in the comics as Marvel wouldn't want to touch it with a hundred foot pole after. Their last interaction was under Marjorie Liu who was proceeding under the now dead Iceman is bi thesis. Lorna doesn't need to be tied down in another romantic relationship now and I see no viable partners on her current title. That doesn't mean she can't have fun though.

    I understand those that ship Lorna/Jean and others not wanting Lorna with Rachel as a romance. On that score my view is that I have zero odds that Lorna/Jean will ever happen as a canon ship, but I do have hopes that something akin to Xavier/Magneto could develop between them in time which could make their once friendship matter at all.

    Lorna is on good terms with everyone, but at the same point in time she doesn't build relationships with anyone as there is no tension or depth to the bulk of her relationships. Marvel has to date been afraid to take the full leap out of the 80s/90s prison with her where she is everyone's friend, but really no one's friend as her relationships all end up paper thin.
    Last edited by jmc247; 06-30-2020 at 09:26 AM.

  13. #973

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    Quote Originally Posted by Will Evans View Post
    What about Polaris and Aurora?
    I would have to think on this, largely because I don't know much about Aurora and I think I need to know more before I could speak much to it.

    What I do know is that if it were to happen in the context of the planned X-Factor book, where Aurora's brother is leading the team, it would come off to me as using the relationship as a way to exploit her in promoting Northstar's book and trapping her on the extreme fringes of the X-Men franchise while possibly locking her out of any chance at relationships (not just romantic, but friendships, rivalries, etc) with more "high profile" characters in the future.

    I would feel differently if Lorna was leading X-Factor instead of Northstar, if Lorna was HEAVILY involved in everything X-Men (not just "oh she's in Empyre" I mean a huge role in everything), if Lorna had her own book, or (all these statements are "or"s) if Marvel hadn't spent the past 5 years on a mix of limboing her and using her to promote other characters. Context is key. A relationship that's good in one context can be bad in another. As an example, I used to be up for the idea of Dreamer being revived or a new version of Dreamer made in line with Gifted, and Lorna dating Dreamer. I'm not so much anymore because of the current context of how Marvel's treated her.

    This is another of the various reasons I strongly prefer Lorna with Jean, and see Emma as a good next one down from Jean. I already noted the great story and character potential which serve as my main reasons for interest, but there's also the fact that Lorna in relationship with one of them would raise her up from where Marvel's exiled her rather than pushing her further out. Whereas if Lorna was given the same level of use as Jean or Emma, she wouldn't need raising up, and she could raise up other characters via relationship with less risk.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rev9 View Post
    I always shipped her with Nightcrawler,strange perhaps but I like that they seem a yin to each other's Yang.Like he is a pacifist,she's more of a warrior or easily provoked.He seems devout yet fun and adventurous.She seems to be more serious and laconic.I don't know I feel like they have a lot in common a sense of loyalty,conviction,a good sense of justice.Plus they'd look great together not the typical brunette/blonde with a joe six pack pairing...they're my ship
    I could see Lorna with Nightcrawler working. It's not my personal preference, but it could work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Soulsword323 View Post
    Lorna should be enjoying the company of several different people. After being dedicated to the same dude, she's earned it.
    Lorna would be good for this approach too, since Marvel hasn't explored her enough for anyone to really say "No she wouldn't do that," and Austen's run kinda opened the door for a more sexually liberated Lorna. It would probably get pushback from various sectors for different reasons, but this would be good for Lorna if done right. Plus it could function as a rebuke of slut-shaming.

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Evans View Post
    Besides Havok, Guido, Random and Iceman, has any other person actually ever pursued Lorna?

    I can’t think of any.
    Gambit's a maybe, from All-New X-Factor. There was definitely some flirt, but it didn't really go anywhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by AZPolaris View Post
    Yup! To tie Lorna to a relationship is the LAST thing she needs! I don't see Leah doing that, either. I really think we're going to get to see Lorna finding herself. This means who she is not who she is with.
    Lorna not in a relationship at all right now would also be fine. There's decent argument for that in how Marvel really needs to understand Lorna and do more with her. If Marvel doesn't understand her, they might fall back on old toxic habits.
    Last edited by salarta; 06-30-2020 at 10:22 AM.
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  14. #974
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will Evans View Post
    Besides Havok, Guido, Random and Iceman, has any other person actually ever pursued Lorna?

    I canít think of any.

  15. #975
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    Quote Originally Posted by staptik777 View Post
    I didn’t see a “No” from her in that panel.

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