Page 74 of 118 FirstFirst ... 246470717273747576777884 ... LastLast
Results 1,096 to 1,110 of 1765
  1. #1096
    Fantastic Member UncannyLZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Posts
    313

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by salarta View Post

    Marvel has placed Exodus in a heightened position within their current books. He's on the Quiet Council. He's considered an Omega mutant. Lorna does not have either of these things or anything equivalent. This is despite the fact multiple past comics have basically said that if Magneto is considered Omega under the criteria set forth by Hickman, then Lorna must be too. Pair multiple cases of Marvel excluding and ignoring her where they objectively should not, and there's a very clear bias against Lorna at Marvel. In other words, what we have here is an inherent perception imbalance between the two. Marvel considers Exodus worthy of respect, and Lorna not. This kind of imbalance is a hotbed for misuse.

    In my mind, I do not see Marvel in its current state writing a relationship between them as something that brings out the best in characters and leads to Lorna getting more of the respect she deserves. I see Marvel writing Lorna more along the lines of a princess whose only value lies in being used to bring the man she marries closer to her father the king. More "piece of property exchanged in a transaction" than actual character. That would not be a good dynamic for her, and it's exactly the kind of dynamic I see coming out of this Marvel.
    Hmm..I kinda of disagree with the majority of this take haha. I don't think Marvel is consciously deciding to elevate a character because they favor them more than Lorna. From the talks with writers and the way the X-Men stories have been built over the years, this for the most part is the natural progression for most characters. Exodus is an extremely powerful telekinetic (I mean...he pieced together Xavier's brain after it was shot through! That's impressive). I don't know anyone else who could be considered an omega TK like him. Lorna being an omega while Magneto is would be redundant and I know both Jean and Quentin are omega level telepaths. Sure, it's always been mentioned that she could surpass him, but has she? We've barely seen her do half the things Magneto has with her magnetism (I hope we start to see more power use). Besides, I always thought that gave her something to aspire to and grow toward and was apart of her story (growing and learning with her powers). It could even give her bonding moments with Magneto with lessons or something. Also, do you really want her to be an omega level mutant? Omega characters, in my opinion, can be boring. If they are that powerful, where's the fun? She really wouldn't be on any team if she were that powerful. Readers would ask why she couldn't just snap her fingers and kill everyone lol A seat on the quiet council and being classified an omega isn't a show of respect in my opinion. It all felt like where most of those characters were going or would be had they established their own country.

    Quote Originally Posted by salarta View Post

    Remember, this is the same Marvel that thought this cover, where Havok and Magneto fight over an unconscious Lorna like she's a trophy to be won and owned, was fine. This cover is not from decades ago when Marvel didn't know how to treat women. This cover is from 2018. People involved in the book that had this cover still work there.



    If this were the Marvel of 2015, I would be much more open to the idea of a relationship with Exodus. I would have more trust in Marvel treating Lorna well. But we're dealing with the Marvel of today. I do not trust that this Marvel would treat Lorna right with him as a pairing. Maybe it would start off with a good appearance, but I believe that sooner or later it would deteriorate and leave Lorna in a ditch while Exodus does everything Lorna should be doing. Only once Lorna has received the respect she needs and deserves would that pairing be not so risky.

    I'm sure some people think I'm overthinking this. My experience tells me not to discount things that seem implausible at first glance. And honestly, I think what we see when we turn on the news nowadays should be proof of just how plausible things that at first seem implausible can be.

    But, again, interacting generally I can see being fine, if done well. It's the idea of a relationship that I see going very badly. I see only negatives for Lorna in that arrangement until a new Marvel comes along with far more respect for her.
    I think her legs shouldn't be opened on the cover for sure but I didn't interpret as "men fighting over a prize". Looked like Daddy was getting rid of her shitty ex to me which I'm all for. Or a cover trying to cash in on "Villain Magneto" which he hasn't been since the early 2000s. I guess considering where all those characters were at the time, lorna as the prize Magneto and Havok fight over didn't cross my mind.

    It's interesting that you think pre-Krakoa was the best chance for Lorna because I actually feel like now is her chance to actually shine. Krakoa brought all of the mutants onto one island. This means all the cards on the table. Pre-Krakoa, I feel like writers had much more freedom on who they got to write, so must wrote their childhood favorite or characters they've always wanted to write which didn't always included Polaris. Now, it feels like everyone is falling into their roles on krakoa and filling out the landscape. Did it take a year for Lorna to be included in an ongoing? Yes, but it's only been a year and Hickman has said he has plans for the next 3.

    Sorry for the long winded response. I love talking Lorna!
    Last edited by UncannyLZ; 07-24-2020 at 02:03 PM.

  2. #1097

    Default

    Long winded responses are fine, I write them fairly often!



    The issue concerning Omega here isn't really "do you want her to be one," it's what her not being considered one means in connection to how else Marvel treats her. Hickman's rules don't say the character must already be the most powerful in their area, and they don't say only one mutant can be Omega (two mutants are deemed Omega as telepaths). They only say the mutant reaches an undefinable upper limit. In Lorna's 616 history, earlier stories said she has the potential to surpass her father, stories like The Twelve implied she's already his equal power-wise, and some issues of her on Genosha outright said she may have surpassed him already (though in fairness, his powers were weakening toward losing them at the time).

    Maybe Magneto is better at using those powers, but Hickman's rules aren't based on years of experience or "featz," only raw power.

    I see two "outs" for this. One is creating this classification to deliberately tear it down later. The other is to couch it in Xavier's mindset, saying he made the list, as that allows who is and isn't on it to be a matter of story and Xavier's opinions rather than "this dude who works at Marvel decided this thing because reasons." I could consider the "[KNOWN]" label to be an out too, but honestly I think that's just prep by Hickman for introducing powerful mutants later. Not a means of saying already known mutants may apply but aren't listed.

    In the end, it's not the status of Omega itself that matters to me here. I think classification systems of this type are junk and shouldn't exist. All it does is create unneeded fandom infighting and place artificial limits on characters. But because this system does exist, we can look at it for what Marvel thinks of characters. For Lorna, it says a lot when you combine it with all the other ways Marvel ignores and excludes her.


    Regarding Exodus, it's supposed to be the natural progression of characters, but Marvel's decided it doesn't apply to Lorna, otherwise she'd have the same things Exodus does or equivalent. Lorna and Magneto being "redundant," again, does not apply here by Hickman's own rules. Magneto being considered Omega certainly hasn't held him back from having major roles and activities, why should it be any different for Lorna?


    Regarding the cover, "daddy gets rid of terrible ex" is exactly the problem. Lorna's a grown woman who can make her own decisions and fight her own battles. The cover frames her as weak and powerless, lacking agency for herself and requiring a man to come to her rescue. It would have been fine if it was something more like Lorna and her father fighting side by side against Havok and his team, but that's not what they did. They cast Lorna in the role of damsel in distress for a man to save her. It's bad no matter who the man is.

    Imagine if this was Jean on the ground with Cyclops and Wolverine fighting over her. Or Storm on the ground with Black Panther and some other character fighting over her. Don't you think that would lead to all sorts of outrage? Why would it be unacceptable for them, but fine for Lorna?


    Finally, Lorna and Krakoa. If Marvel behaved differently, it could be a great place for her to shine. But everything we've seen, both for the past 5 years and from day one of HoX/PoX, has been the opposite. She was used in HoX and X-Men #1 primarily for men to talk at her about things relevant to them. An X-women variant cover left her out completely, but included other characters like Dani Moonstar and Magik. Her history with Genosha and Krakoa hasn't been mentioned or used even once so far, while other characters like Storm get to act outraged about the millions of deaths she never personally saw but Lorna experienced firsthand and had replaying constantly in her head until she was recovered from Genosha's ruins. Then there's the Omega thing.

    If Marvel had acknowledged her history at various points this past year, it might have been possible to say "Okay, so it took a year, but maybe they just had to figure out what they wanted to do with her." That doesn't explain the X-women variant cover, which demonstrates how little they think of her despite being the second woman to join the X-Men. It's not like they were struggling to squeeze characters in. All it would've taken to give her room was placing Shadowcat closer to Storm.



    It also doesn't explain why she couldn't show up visually in scenes where relevant, or say things relevant to her in the two issues that she had some panels. If you look at just one thing in isolation, it might seem like nothing. It's when you look at these things together that you see a pattern.
    I can also be reached on BlueSky and Tumblr. Avatar by kahlart.

    Ghosts of Genosha minicomic focused on Polaris, written by me and drawn by Fin_NoMore.

    Polaris 50th anniversary minicomic written by me and drawn by Mlad!

    Gallery of Polaris commissions (without NSFW or minicomics)

  3. #1098
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Posts
    3,478

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by salarta View Post
    Long winded responses are fine, I write them fairly often!



    The issue concerning Omega here isn't really "do you want her to be one," it's what her not being considered one means in connection to how else Marvel treats her. Hickman's rules don't say the character must already be the most powerful in their area, and they don't say only one mutant can be Omega (two mutants are deemed Omega as telepaths). They only say the mutant reaches an undefinable upper limit. In Lorna's 616 history, earlier stories said she has the potential to surpass her father, stories like The Twelve implied she's already his equal power-wise, and some issues of her on Genosha outright said she may have surpassed him already (though in fairness, his powers were weakening toward losing them at the time).

    Maybe Magneto is better at using those powers, but Hickman's rules aren't based on years of experience or "featz," only raw power.

    I see two "outs" for this. One is creating this classification to deliberately tear it down later. The other is to couch it in Xavier's mindset, saying he made the list, as that allows who is and isn't on it to be a matter of story and Xavier's opinions rather than "this dude who works at Marvel decided this thing because reasons." I could consider the "[KNOWN]" label to be an out too, but honestly I think that's just prep by Hickman for introducing powerful mutants later. Not a means of saying already known mutants may apply but aren't listed.

    In the end, it's not the status of Omega itself that matters to me here. I think classification systems of this type are junk and shouldn't exist. All it does is create unneeded fandom infighting and place artificial limits on characters. But because this system does exist, we can look at it for what Marvel thinks of characters. For Lorna, it says a lot when you combine it with all the other ways Marvel ignores and excludes her.


    Regarding Exodus, it's supposed to be the natural progression of characters, but Marvel's decided it doesn't apply to Lorna, otherwise she'd have the same things Exodus does or equivalent. Lorna and Magneto being "redundant," again, does not apply here by Hickman's own rules. Magneto being considered Omega certainly hasn't held him back from having major roles and activities, why should it be any different for Lorna?


    Regarding the cover, "daddy gets rid of terrible ex" is exactly the problem. Lorna's a grown woman who can make her own decisions and fight her own battles. The cover frames her as weak and powerless, lacking agency for herself and requiring a man to come to her rescue. It would have been fine if it was something more like Lorna and her father fighting side by side against Havok and his team, but that's not what they did. They cast Lorna in the role of damsel in distress for a man to save her. It's bad no matter who the man is.

    Imagine if this was Jean on the ground with Cyclops and Wolverine fighting over her. Or Storm on the ground with Black Panther and some other character fighting over her. Don't you think that would lead to all sorts of outrage? Why would it be unacceptable for them, but fine for Lorna?


    Finally, Lorna and Krakoa. If Marvel behaved differently, it could be a great place for her to shine. But everything we've seen, both for the past 5 years and from day one of HoX/PoX, has been the opposite. She was used in HoX and X-Men #1 primarily for men to talk at her about things relevant to them. An X-women variant cover left her out completely, but included other characters like Dani Moonstar and Magik. Her history with Genosha and Krakoa hasn't been mentioned or used even once so far, while other characters like Storm get to act outraged about the millions of deaths she never personally saw but Lorna experienced firsthand and had replaying constantly in her head until she was recovered from Genosha's ruins. Then there's the Omega thing.

    If Marvel had acknowledged her history at various points this past year, it might have been possible to say "Okay, so it took a year, but maybe they just had to figure out what they wanted to do with her." That doesn't explain the X-women variant cover, which demonstrates how little they think of her despite being the second woman to join the X-Men. It's not like they were struggling to squeeze characters in. All it would've taken to give her room was placing Shadowcat closer to Storm.



    It also doesn't explain why she couldn't show up visually in scenes where relevant, or say things relevant to her in the two issues that she had some panels. If you look at just one thing in isolation, it might seem like nothing. It's when you look at these things together that you see a pattern.
    I do think Hickman infers exactly what you question 1.Hickman doesn't say the character must be the most powerful in their area...
    I think that is exactly what he says he just doesn't use the word powerful ,he uses 'upper limit' instead of power,ergo if one character is the epitomy of a superpowers upper limit then they are the most powerful

    2. You are presuming two mutants can both be upper limits because of The Kid Omega Vs Jean Grey confusion,though I think Hickman either a) differentiates telepathy according to different criteria maybe unconscious mind telepathy and conscious mind telepathy(Just a guess)or b)He is implying they are both potential Phoenix vessels in which not they but the phoenix is the epitomy of telepathic upper limit

    Indeed no one said Lorna is not potentially capable of surpassing Magneto's power ,but it just means at this moment she has not! Remember the House of X stories are a soft reboot,everything that happened before is not negated but put in a multiverse perspective.In life X she is not superior to her father Magneto

    This is all coming from a big Lorna fan
    Last edited by Rev9; 07-24-2020 at 11:52 PM.

  4. #1099
    Incredible Member rhaenylis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Posts
    918

    Default

    I too think the list is very narrow, and not just for Lorna


    Already, where's Rachel Summers ? I believed she had the potential to be as powerful as her mother. I believed she was the one true host. I believed Marvel would finally stop underusing her. But no. I was obviously wrong. Rachel is apparently not worthy of being omega, but, for example, Hope is (I hate Hope, you'll have to get used to it)

    And Rogue ? Fans have always loved Rogue, Marvel knows it and has therefore devoted a lot of plots to her, but now I think it comes from Hickman, and I do not understand. He's supposed to be a very thorough researching guy. So why did he not place Rogue as an omega when in each of her important appearances she clearly demonstrates her impressive potential ? And she's the only known mutant who can absorb the powers, abilities, memories, psyche, and personality in anyone. Was it that hard to place her as an omega ? As if he only defined as omega the mutants that were useful to him in HoX / PoX (but then, where is Emma ?)

    Gambit ? The same thing. We could see how his kinetic energy control doesn't just limit him to the card-throwing guy, but allows him to do mind-boggling things

    And Jubilee ? Her powers are often taken as a joke, but Emma Frost has discovered that Jubilee is one of the most powerful mutants she has encountered. I repeat, Emma Frost has discovered through telepathy that Jubilation Lee has an extremely powerful potential. Marvel Comics really needs to stop the bullshit and start respecting Jubes

    To be honest, talking about these cases (especially Rogue) puts me more and more in agreement with Salarta's opinion
    However, I sometimes think back to Storm who finally received her title of omega mutant and I tell myself that Lorna, Rogue, Rachel, Jubilee, Gambit and some others will perhaps finally be recognized, even if for Lorna I have doubts

  5. #1100

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rev9 View Post
    I do think Hickman infers exactly what you question 1.Hickman doesn't say the character must be the most powerful in their area...
    I think that is exactly what he says he just doesn't use the word powerful ,he uses 'upper limit' instead of power,ergo if one character is the epitomy of a superpowers upper limit then they are the most powerful

    2. You are presuming two mutants can both be upper limits because of The Kid Omega Vs Jean Grey confusion,though I think Hickman either a) differentiates telepathy according to different criteria maybe unconscious mind telepathy and conscious mind telepathy(Just a guess)or b)He is implying they are both potential Phoenix vessels in which not they but the phoenix is the epitomy of telepathic upper limit

    Indeed no one said Lorna is not potentially capable of surpassing Magneto's power ,but it just means at this moment she has not! Remember the House of X stories are a soft reboot,everything that happened before is not negated but put in a multiverse perspective.In life X she is not superior to her father Magneto

    This is all coming from a big Lorna fan
    I disagree with that interpretation of "reach upper limit."

    If Hickman meant to differentiate the telepathy, he would've added a qualifier after the word in the same way he did for the four different versions of Reality Manipulation.

    My intent here isn't "Lorna is superior to Magneto." It's to highlight how bias toward Lorna is expressed in this manner, to be noted next to other expressions of it. Past work suggests if Magneto's on it and the deciding criteria isn't something Lorna doesn't have such as years of experience, then Lorna should be on it. And I think if HoX/PoX/DoX count as a "soft reboot" that allows for completely ignoring what's been established by past work, then the whole setting should not be supported. It encourages the worst behavior out of the company.

    I would be equally fine with Marvel announcing that they will completely scrap the Omega classification system and never use it again. But if they intend to use it, then I'll call out problems it has, especially in relation to things I like.
    I can also be reached on BlueSky and Tumblr. Avatar by kahlart.

    Ghosts of Genosha minicomic focused on Polaris, written by me and drawn by Fin_NoMore.

    Polaris 50th anniversary minicomic written by me and drawn by Mlad!

    Gallery of Polaris commissions (without NSFW or minicomics)

  6. #1101
    Astonishing Member Soulsword323's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    4,861

    Default

    Too many characters had been deemed "Omega" and the point of the list is to clean that mess up. Not everyone needs to be that powerful, and I"m fine with Polaris not being one personally. We've seen Lorna do plenty of impressive things with her powers, and I don't think its a slight against her. I overall thinks its an interesting concept for Mutants.

  7. #1102

    Default

    Lorna's #1 problem: Inconsistent and often weak characterization that leads to no real relationships or even constant goals or philosophy.

    #2 problem: Her character development and biggest and most influential events such as Genosha are ignored. I understand some fans like say the 80s or start of 90s Lorna, but the character evolved. Not wanting her to evolve with time leads the character nowhere. If one wants their rush of nostalgia for the time they were getting into comics I have found reading back issues to be preferable to demanding some previous incarnation of Lorna come into existence like nothing happened in-between eras.

    #3 problem: Not taken seriously as a player or relevant though one can certainly argue this wouldn't be an issue if #1 and #2 weren't issues.

    Lorna's power classification can be seen as an extension of #3. But, in the end it is just an after effect of her not being seen in the top 15 of mutant protagonists or antagonists as one could see from the HoX covers. The root cause is #1 and 2... change those areas then in time the image portion of the character will rise as well.
    Last edited by jmc247; 07-25-2020 at 09:40 AM.

  8. #1103
    Fantastic Member UncannyLZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Posts
    313

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Soulsword323 View Post
    Too many characters had been deemed "Omega" and the point of the list is to clean that mess up. Not everyone needs to be that powerful, and I"m fine with Polaris not being one personally. We've seen Lorna do plenty of impressive things with her powers, and I don't think its a slight against her. I overall thinks its an interesting concept for Mutants.
    I agree Soulsword! I think it’s an interesting concept and Hickman wanted to clear up the omega conversation. One thing I’ve noticed is people tend to look at the list but forget the “dominant power” part. Idk which I’d consider Rachel’s dominant power but I don’t think she’s more powerful TK than Exodus or more powerful telepath than Quentin who was seen fixing the timeline with Jean. I also think that due to the nature of their powers, some characters will never be considered Omega because the upper limit of what their power can do can be surpassed. What can Angel do that Iron Man can’t hypothetically do better? I also find the “Omega Protocol” on the data page interesting...I wonder if it’ll come into play at some point.

  9. #1104
    Fantastic Member UncannyLZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Posts
    313

    Default

    I’ve been reading/re-reading all of Polaris comics from her first appearance and I’m almost done with X-Factor vol 1. Lorna is such a cool character but I kept trying to figure out why she doesn’t feel so connected to the X-Men and I think it’s 2 things: Claremont and Nostalgia.

    Claremont had such a long and celebrated run on the X-Men that barely included Lorna. And if it did, she was “Havok’s girlfriend”. The Claremont era kind of became the foundation of how most people came to know the “X-Men”. And then the animated series came out which influenced that view point further (again, just Havok’s girlfriend). To the point that I think until recently, the X-Men had been in a loop of nostalgic stories with the same characters with a few bright spots of stories and character moments. So Lorna would only end up in stories if Havok was included usually to be her girlfriend. A writer has to already be a fan to push her and it’s hard to become a fan when you have to seek out the character instead then being on the main roster. Things seem to be looking up for the X-Men with the last year of Krakoa being pretty good in my opinion. Lorna coming on Wednesday will hopefully be making it even better!

  10. #1105
    Astonishing Member MechaJeanix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Appalachia
    Posts
    2,304

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by UncannyLZ View Post
    I agree Soulsword! I think it’s an interesting concept and Hickman wanted to clear up the omega conversation. One thing I’ve noticed is people tend to look at the list but forget the “dominant power” part. Idk which I’d consider Rachel’s dominant power but I don’t think she’s more powerful TK than Exodus or more powerful telepath than Quentin who was seen fixing the timeline with Jean. I also think that due to the nature of their powers, some characters will never be considered Omega because the upper limit of what their power can do can be surpassed. What can Angel do that Iron Man can’t hypothetically do better? I also find the “Omega Protocol” on the data page interesting...I wonder if it’ll come into play at some point.
    I found it to be interesting too. It may just be to streamline a concept that got out of control, but I think the omega mutants will be important somehow down the line. Even if there isn't something important for them to do it was still a good idea to clean up the concept. I know some will always be upset that Rachel, Cable, and X-man were left out but I don't see how Hickman could have downgraded Jean or Quire.

    Even though Polaris isn't an omega it doesn't mean she's not an OP character. She is clearly very powerful just like Rachel, Emma, or Xavier. All of these are powerful characters but not of omega distinction.

    I do wonder how the other writers will handle the omega label. Jean and Quire are both omega telepaths but Percy had Jean atomize people with tk and had Quire brag he could tear up the moon with his tk when he was referring to being omega. I do wonder if other writers will see the omega's as extremely powerful with all their powers and not just the specific omega power like Hickman defined it.

    As for Polaris at least she is going to be used coming up and will be featured in a monthly book. I think Leah will do well with her powers wise. I hope she handles her well in personality and story (I think she will). I am also excited Lorna will be used in X of Swords. I hope she gets some good moments. The story is so big I'm sure a lot of our favs will get some attention (even if they may not be the main stars of the event).

  11. #1106
    Ultimate Member Wiccan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    12,897

    Default

    I think Hickman would rather have only 1 omega for each, and have it be sort of the "main ones" too. Just like Magneto is included but Lorna isn't, so is the case with Jean being included but not her children, even though they have all been hyped as uberpowerful. Quentin got included with Jean because his codename is literally "Kid Omega" and being an omega mutant is a key part of his character that has always been mentioned and influenced most of his portrayals, so they felt like they couldn't strip away his status.

  12. #1107

    Default

    Then it would have been very simple for Hickman to find a qualifier for why there are two telepaths and include that. He didn't, so it opens the door for questioning why one character and not another when past materials suggests if one is present then the other should be too.

    The inverse would apply too in a hypothetical scenario. If Lorna was on the list, it would raise questions of why Magneto isn't. The difference in this case is people who care about Magneto never have to worry about him being excluded from anything for reasons of bias, while it's been the everyday reality for Lorna for most of the 52 years she's existed.
    I can also be reached on BlueSky and Tumblr. Avatar by kahlart.

    Ghosts of Genosha minicomic focused on Polaris, written by me and drawn by Fin_NoMore.

    Polaris 50th anniversary minicomic written by me and drawn by Mlad!

    Gallery of Polaris commissions (without NSFW or minicomics)

  13. #1108

  14. #1109
    Fantastic Member UncannyLZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Posts
    313

    Default

    This is awesome art and a pretty cool redesign! I love Lorna art and a good redesign. Do you all like her X-Factor Krakoa design?
    Last edited by UncannyLZ; 07-26-2020 at 10:52 AM.

  15. #1110

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by UncannyLZ View Post
    This is awesome art and a pretty cool redesign! I love Lorna art and a good redesign. Do you all like her X-Factor Krakoa design?
    The version we have seen in HoX is long in the tooth and not as good as her actual classic costume, but Carlos Gomez’s tweaks he showed off look like a real improvement.

    Anyway.



    Polaris vs Storm by Jason Johnson.

    It looks like someone wants to refight the Storm/Lorna battles of the 70s and 80s though without Lorna as a puppet.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •