Lorna Dane: Polaris Appreciation 2020

[Soulsword323]

Do Lorna fans still want Wanda and Lorna to be sisters?

This is a hard question. I do enjoy the idea of Lorna, Pietro, and Wanda, being siblings, but I just don't think it will ever be executed the way fans want it to be. With Polaris being an X-Man first, and Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver being Avengers first, the House of M doesn't really work as well as does in other mediums (comics vs film, animation, video games, and AUs). In the comics, when they were family, I feel that Lorna often get's forgotten when Wanda and Pietro are in the picture.

I do enjoy the prospect of Polaris having connections outside of the X-Men, but even then most writers don't really do enough with it. Pietro was the only real exception to that, and even with it being well developed, look how long its been since either has mentioned the other. I guess this is just a really long-winded way of saying I'm not really clamoring to see them added back to the Magnus family, but if it happens, it happens.

[Devaishwarya]

It's a No for me, to the Wanda, Lorna, Pietro as siblings issue.
Simply because from my earliest memories of these characters with Wanda and Pietro being first members of tBoEM and then Avengers and with Lorna being an X-Man...I've always seen them as separate, non-related characters (despite what stories have been written to say otherwise.)

[salarta]

Do Lorna fans still want Wanda and Lorna to be sisters?

I would say the answer is yes, judging both by general fandom activity I've seen and especially by recent comments concerning Empyre.










Now whether or not people that a) use CBR and b) post on these threads want them to be sisters is a different matter. Sometimes CBR and fandom views elsewhere match, sometimes they don't.

It might seem like there's a slowdown or less interest nowadays on here compared to how much we've talked about it in the past, but that's largely a result of so many other things going on. Plus honestly, I'm kinda lazy these days about reposting social media content to CBR most of the time. I've had that first tweet in my bookmarks since it was made and only decided to screencap and post it now since it fits the discussion.

[rhaenylis]

I admit that I miss the dynamic between Lorna and Pietro a lot

Having siblings myself, I found their relationship to be very real. They had their arguments, there was conflict, but also a deep attachment that came out especially when one of the two was in a delicate position. And even when that wasn't the case, Pietro cared deeply for Lorna and vice versa. I also really liked their teasing as well as their behavior in Secret Wars House of M

And even if they won't make Pietro a mutant again (which they should, however, the retcon has completely ruined this character it's hopeless), I still want a reunion between the two of them. Even when they didn't know their kinship ties, they had great chemistry

[rhaenylis]

As for Lorna and Wanda, they had a lot of potential, I think. If Marvel Comics finally started respecting them, I would love to see them form such a great chemistry as the one already established between Lorna and Pietro

But while I want a reconciliation between the two, Wanda hurt Lorna (albeit unintentionally) with the Decimation and the infamous resurrection (if Marvel Comics ever makes Lorna finally react) and they shouldn't become besties immediately

Finally, I also want to see them be sisters again because if Marvel would be smart, we could have good things

[rhaenylis]

Well
Tomorrow we will finally know if Marvel has finally decided to respect Lorna's story with Genosha... or not at all

[salarta]

Honestly, I expect either she won't be in it, or she'll have a very small role. Which if Marvel had future big Genosha plans we knew about, and we knew Lorna was going to have a huge important role there, then absence from Empyre wouldn't be a big issue.

I'm also wary these days of even when Marvel does something that's good because it tends to come with Marvel simultaneously or soon doing bad things.

She got to lead a team with All-New X-Factor and spend time with Wanda and Pietro, but then she was excluded from Axis and her siblings were retconned into no longer being her siblings. She had a very good portrayal in Secret Wars: House of M, appearance in the Magneto solo and several cameos all during Secret Wars, but then they threw her into limbo for two years. They recreated her X-Men #50 cover for what appeared to be a big return for her on X-Men Blue, only for those issues to be more about Havok and mainly use her to talk up Havok and Magneto.

[Havok83]

Yeah I dont expect to see them bring in any new characters into that story. She really should have been in #1. She should have volunteered to go with Warren bc of her connection to Genosha

[salarta]

At the start of Empyre, I was willing to wait to see if she showed up later. I even had a possible reason for her not being there at the start of "maybe Magneto ignorantly (though well-intentioned) thought he was sparing her a revisit of her trauma," but that reason only really works if Lorna eventually finds out and gets to take part. I had no delusions of that being how it would actually go down, I've had enough experiences with Marvel to know better, but I still kept quiet in case it would turn out different for once.

I'm fully expecting Marvel's idea of "fixing" this, if they try at all, will be to do something on X-Factor that doesn't have anywhere near the level of promotion, character/franchise interaction (especially with Scarlet Wanda involved), or narrative gravity that X-Men: Empyre did, then acting like that's good enough. That's their typical modus operandi with Lorna. Release work that technically fulfills the need but keep it so small, isolated and quiet that the work is insignificant and doesn't actually amount to anything.

And my saying that isn't a knock on Leah Williams. But Lorna's experiences with Genosha aren't like her origin story. They're not the sort of thing where it's "okay" for Marvel to quickly tell it in a single issue or story arc of a book like X-Factor with no promotion and then move on like it never happened and doesn't mean anything. Marvel had Jean fight Cassandra Nova on Genosha's ruins 2 years ago on X-Men Red where Jean was actually leading the book. They had Red Skull exploit the Genoshan dead for their big Axis event in 2014. Neither Jean nor Red Skull had a direct personal stake in Genosha like Lorna does, so for Marvel to have these other characters make such big dramatic use of Genosha and the genocide only for Lorna to have her experience relegated to something much smaller in scope after 15 years of nothing would be insulting.

This is the sort of thing where "better than nothing" isn't good enough.

[AbnormallyNormal]

The thing is Wanda and Lorna being related barely even got explored ever. Very very very briefly. And yes if it was to become officially recognized canon again, they definitely shouldn't be immediately warm fuzzies whatsoever. I think that was a bit of a problem with Peter David's approach (which I think most fans gloss over because we are simply ecstatic the two characters actually interacted in any way).

Lorna especially with her overall mindset of kind of "Very Pro Mutant" *should* have clashes with Wanda over everything. Clashes emotionally I mean.

It's kind of like Lorna is closest to Magneto, Pietro is inbetween and Wanda is farthest. In terms of their sentiment towards being a mutant and feelings about mutantkind in general (you could argue Wanda shares a certain egomaniac/narcissism/impulsiveness with Magneto of course).

As far as do I want the canon of Pietro and Wanda being the Magneto family to return, yes I do mostly because the reason to undo it was pure petty corporate rivalry and had zero to do with respecting the comic history or continuity or any kind of meaningful artistic purpose.

[salarta]

I actually agree in a realistic, narratively reasonable sense that Lorna and Wanda should have some tension in the beginning. This holds true even if they were never to be sisters ever again.

Take the entire family component out of the equation, what we have is still a situation where Lorna had her powers - the one thing she had left - taken from her in the immediate aftermath of a series of traumas and losses. You wouldn't expect someone to "be fine" and act like it never happened. That's just foundational ground layer stuff. On top of that, still even if they were to never be sisters again, Lorna and Wanda at least thought they were sisters when Decimation happened. No matter how you take it, Lorna would feel either personally targeted or like their sister bond meant nothing to Wanda. In the framework of these feelings, it doesn't matter what the reason given is for what happened. Doesn't matter if they were Wanda's own deliberate action, if someone was controlling or forcing her to do it, if someone else did it and framed Wanda, or any other reason. Within the context of the fictional universe, characters still see Wanda as the person who did it and that would extend to Lorna.

The difference is I sincerely think a single good, proper story between Lorna and Wanda as sisters addressing Decimation could lay most of the matter to rest. It would have the sort of emotional weight needed for catharsis to happen for those open to it. I'm not going to say everyone would instantly be fine with Decimation after, cause there's always going to be people who refuse to move on no matter what happens, but I think this would accomplish it for the majority.

If not a single good story heavily focused on the matter then perhaps a lot of smaller moments across several issues. But I think a single good story where a single issue was the whole or a heavy focus would be all they need.

Everything above that I said is very Lorna POV centric. Which I think closely matches negative feelings people have in general from the X-Men franchise side, how they're really only thinking of the impact Decimation had on X-Men and not about Wanda's POV. On Wanda's side, I think this kind of story could let her move beyond the "I'm so guilty and I feel bad about it" phase and into an "I can do so much good and the world is better with me in it" phase. Lorna and Wanda fighting, working through the issue, and patching things up to have a good ongoing sister relationship that runs counter to negative views of Wanda would go a long way here.

You can't really achieve this with Magneto because as a character, Magneto has always been way too emotionally distant from all his children. You can't really do it with Pietro cause they're already on fairly good terms from what I've seen. You could technically do it with others like Jean, Cyclops, etc, but they would all lack the emotional weight necessary to make it truly work that you get from Lorna and Wanda's sister relationship.

To resolve strong emotions, you need to draw them out and work through them. This is ultimately why past attempts to resolve Decimation for Wanda have failed. Too much trying to logically tell people to move on, not enough giving people what they emotionally need to be able to do it.

Now personally, I AM fine with if they just dive into Lorna and Wanda interacting positively as sisters right away. But I think that would rob everyone, including Wanda, of the best chance to move forward from Decimation.


As for ANXF #14, I also agree fandom wanting to see them interact at all is probably the main reason for so much support of it (including from me). It's a small taste of what could be if Marvel restores the family and resolves the Decimation stuff.

I also don't blame Peter David for going straight into fun sister times with them. He seems to acknowledge in the first couple pages that Lorna and Wanda's relationship should be rough and require some work before the sudden jump to fun sister times. I think by the time of ANXF #14, he knew a) the forced retcon was happening, and b) ANXF was getting canceled. From there, he would've had to decide what was more important, emphasizing the tension caused by Decimation, or emphasizing how great their relationship could be. At least right now, I think he made the right choice for the sole story he was able to tell with them. Demonstrate something to aspire toward, leave it to future writers if the family is restored to reach that aspirational point.

[jmc247]

Fans remember, by geraldo_neto_art

The lack of connection between her and the twins has reduced her overall viability to the public. Games are the most obvious area where its impacted. While I think Marvel games will probably in the next year toss a crumb or two Lorna's way to allow her to 'catch up' to Daken, Northstar and Rachel... the gaming situation were her shows how far the character has been left in the dust in recent years.

The last game she managed to be in back in 2014 included Wanda and told a family story inside the game. HoM is a popular universe and a popular family and if they were a family we would see alot of character packs of them in the various games. But, they aren't so we won't.

The thing is Wanda and Lorna being related barely even got explored ever. Very very very briefly. And yes if it was to become officially recognized canon again, they definitely shouldn't be immediately warm fuzzies whatsoever. I think that was a bit of a problem with Peter David's approach (which I think most fans gloss over because we are simply ecstatic the two characters actually interacted in any way).

Lorna especially with her overall mindset of kind of "Very Pro Mutant" *should* have clashes with Wanda over everything. Clashes emotionally I mean.

PAD dropped the ball with the relationship no doubt, but he at least tried which no writer since Austen had done in that area. PAD's mistake was going too hyper aggressive caustic between Pietro and Lorna without a clear reason from Lorna's end and then too happy and friendly between Wanda and Lorna when there actually was a good reason for their relationship to be highly contentious and adversarial. I agree with your view of Lorna and Wanda and their potential, but its safe to say Marvel does not.

I haven't read Empyre X-Men #4 and have been dreading it. I have pulled back in terms of my pull list and that is likely to continue. Marvel has respected Emma and Magneto's experiences on Genosha as recently as last year. Not respecting the biggest and most emotional event in Lorna's history as a character in favor 90s recycled drama and characterization has a massive thumbs down from me.

[Havok83]

I'll save you time. Lorna isnt in Empyre

[rhaenylis]

At least that issue from which Lorna was excluded didn't show the other mutants confronting Wanda or talking about the genocide
It's a very small consolation, but it's better than an issue where everyone talks about Wanda's spell except Lorna

[Soulsword323]

It's not shocking. Genosha was a backdrop so the X-Men could fight zombies. Once you read the other three issues, it was clear nothing super meaningful was going to be done with the concept unfortunately.