Naomi Appreciation 2020

[kurenai24]

My assumption is that this is one of Zumbado's followers, acting on his orders and doing a preliminary recon of earth before the full invasion.

Narratively it makes the most sense. There's a lot of unanswered questions and family drama between Naomi's parents and Zumbado, so it'd make little sense to get rid of him after one punch, only to introduce *another* earth-jumping world conqueror.

You're right that it wouldn't make sense having another earth jumping world conquerer, I guess a part of me is wondering when Naomi season 2 would take place, and if Bendis and Walker would subvert expectations when it comes to Zumbado, like say Naomi season 2 takes place before she joined the league and in season 2 she defeats Zumbado which narritively could turn into Naomi thinking she avenged her parents and saved her homeworld but something else took Zumbado's place.

Although I do hope it's the latter, and that the new character the JL is fighting is an underling.

I hate the wait too, but I still want the core of Naomi's story to unfold in her own book. I want future readers to be able to easily follow her development, and that's gonna be hard if you gotta read season 1, then a random trade of JL, then season 2, then a random trade of something else, etc. I want this stuff in JL to matter and advance her narrative and development a little bit, but not be so important that it is something new fans can't miss or they'll lose the story.

Here's thing tho, isn't the core of Naomi's story in all of season 1...

Bendis talked about him and Walker doing 2 or 3 more seasons of Naomi, and from what I remember it didn't sound like there were plans to launch an ongoing after.

And let's remember that it is the sucess of season 1 that has led to Naomi getting a season 2 and possibly a 3, but if the numbers weren't good how would Bendis have made good on his promise of Naomi and her world being important to the DC universe.

It just makes me think Bendis and Walker wrote season 1 of Naomi as a self-contained introduction of the character, and fans, new or old would have had to keep track of random trades of whatever comic Naomi was in anyway.

I'm so happy for her and her league placement, what I'm not happy for is all the unnecessary hate she's going to receive for being there instead "insert obscure character from 30 years ago".

It has been surprisingly mild but maybe once the first issue comes out it'll ramp up.

I think it’s fine that her book title is just “Naomi” but I do wish she would get a superhero code name in DC continuity. Right now it’s like having a superhero named Bob.

I want her to have a superhero name too, I know Bendis is not into the whole secret identity thing but using the MCU as an example like he did (to explain his feelings on secret identities), people know Steve Rogers is Captain America but that doesn't change the fact that he's still referred to as Captain America or Cap by characters in the film.

I hope Bendis understands that and I hope Walker convinces Bendis to give her a hero moniker.

[Korath]

Regarding the new threat, what bothers me, if he is indeed an underling of Zumbado, is that it'd makes old Zumby a JL level threat and I could see him being "poached" from Naomi's solo to the JL proper after this one is defeated. Meanwhile, we only ever saw 20 of the 29 drawn so far and we know that 7 left the Earth when 14 others were killed.

Of the eight who remained on Earth, four are accounted for : Zumbado, of course, Naomi's parents and Akira. Four more are totall unknown. And of those four known, Akira and Zumbado are the only left alive.

However, there is indeed something which could indicate that he isn't one of the 29, and that's the apparent absence of luminous dots on his body. If you look at all of the detailed Crisis-Touched they all have those dots. We can see them on Naomi's parents and Zumbado on the spread where they fight, and even on the corpses of the three Zumbado killed in the next spread (it's faint but the one he hiolds has some on his fingers and arms, the dead blond on a rock as on his hands and the woman slumping behind his feet also have some). And of course, Akira also has some, and so does Naomi when she wears her uniform.

Which indeed shows the power of great world-building being complemented by awesome art. It's the first time ever I'm searching dots to see if one is a godling, and it's also the first tie I noticed that Zumbado had killed more than one on the spread where he is said to have conquered half the world !

I really loved Naomi XD !

[Robotman]

I love the idea that Superman invited her to be on the League. I really like the bond that they have. Usually writers will make younger female heroes automatically gravitate towards Wonder Woman. This is a nice change. Obviously Supes can relate to a young hero who survived their home planet’s destruction.

[lemonpeace]

Regarding the new threat, what bothers me, if he is indeed an underling of Zumbado, is that it'd makes old Zumby a JL level threat and I could see him being "poached" from Naomi's solo to the JL proper after this one is defeated. Meanwhile, we only ever saw 20 of the 29 drawn so far and we know that 7 left the Earth when 14 others were killed.

Of the eight who remained on Earth, four are accounted for : Zumbado, of course, Naomi's parents and Akira. Four more are totall unknown. And of those four known, Akira and Zumbado are the only left alive.

However, there is indeed something which could indicate that he isn't one of the 29, and that's the apparent absence of luminous dots on his body. If you look at all of the detailed Crisis-Touched they all have those dots. We can see them on Naomi's parents and Zumbado on the spread where they fight, and even on the corpses of the three Zumbado killed in the next spread (it's faint but the one he hiolds has some on his fingers and arms, the dead blond on a rock as on his hands and the woman slumping behind his feet also have some). And of course, Akira also has some, and so does Naomi when she wears her uniform.

Which indeed shows the power of great world-building being complemented by awesome art. It's the first time ever I'm searching dots to see if one is a godling, and it's also the first tie I noticed that Zumbado had killed more than one on the spread where he is said to have conquered half the world !

I really loved Naomi XD !

I actually welcome Zumbado as a League-level threat, we could use more black(?) high profile villains. Zumbado is so intrinsically linked to Naomi and her aesthetic, and her mythology, he's poach-proof, you can't have one without the other. If they poach Zumbado it just provides Naomi a bigger stage to shine. I can see him fighting the League but at this stage of development I don't see the most impactful moments happening unless it's in her book. this horned guy seems like a mini-boss, i don't see him being one of 29. I think he may just be an acolyte he made or recruited while searching the Multiverse for Naomi.

[Korath]

So far, she has bonded with Superman and Batman considering her origins (sent away from her homeworld and her parents were killed by a criminal) but it's true that she didn't bond at all with Diana, I don't even think she met her yet, as she ?

Also, I've got the feeling that Black Adam will be in JL to make her sees that there exist other forms of heroisms, which can be more criticable than Supe's but can be explained and understood.

@Lemonpeace : as it ever been explained how so many peoples seemed to be changed beyond the 29 ?

My pet theory is that some were uplifted by super-geniuses like Akira and that others were indeed affected by the Crisis but to a lesser degree than the 29, only achieving minimal super-powers (kind of like Duke's original light powers at most, in my mind).

But what I'm certain is that when Noami's parents sent her away, they lost the support of some of their most devoted, and I think that it was because they never were given the opportunity to send their loved ones away, while the two "Gods" they served decided that they could. It must have hurt hard and I'd love for Noami to one day met someone like that, who was suepr devoted to her parents, lost everything but still believed in them until they decided they were above losing what everyone else had lost, becoming bitter and resentful at them.

I can't see how the three of them (with Akira) could have lost to Zumbado if their own troops hadn't turned on them.

[kurenai24]

Regarding the new threat, what bothers me, if he is indeed an underling of Zumbado, is that it'd makes old Zumby a JL level threat and I could see him being "poached" from Naomi's solo to the JL proper after this one is defeated. Meanwhile, we only ever saw 20 of the 29 drawn so far and we know that 7 left the Earth when 14 others were killed.

Z was always suppose to a be JL threat considering Bendis comment about Naomi and her world being important to the DCU, there would just be no way Naomi and her world could be important to the DCU as a whole if it stayed in just her book, but you bring up a good point about him possibly being poached.

I love the idea that Superman invited her to be on the League. I really like the bond that they have. Usually writers will make younger female heroes automatically gravitate towards Wonder Woman. This is a nice change. Obviously Supes can relate to a young hero who survived their home planet’s destruction.

I'm glad Naomi didn't fall into the trope of young female heroes only looking to Wonder Woman or other female heroes.

I also like that Naomi didn't like Superman just b/c she thought he was cool (which I'm sure she does) but b/c of the more personal information about Superman, that he was adopted.

I actually welcome Zumbado as a League-level threat, we could use more black(?) high profile villains. Zumbado is so intrinsically linked to Naomi and her aesthetic, and her mythology, he's poach-proof, you can't have one without the other. If they poach Zumbado it just provides Naomi a bigger stage to shine. I can see him fighting the League but at this stage of development I don't see the most impactful moments happening unless it's in her book. this horned guy seems like a mini-boss, i don't see him being one of 29. I think he may just be an acolyte he made or recruited while searching the Multiverse for Naomi.

Yes, more black villains, I actually appreciate that Bendis has created 3 so far.

And you're right Zumbado is intrinsically linked to Naomi, I feel like while writers could get away with using Zumbado's underlings, if they want use Z, Naomi has to be there too.

So far, she has bonded with Superman and Batman considering her origins (sent away from her homeworld and her parents were killed by a criminal) but it's true that she didn't bond at all with Diana, I don't even think she met her yet, as she ?

Nope she's never met Diana and now she's on the Justice League and still won't be able to meet her.

But you just reminded that Batman was pretty forthcoming about his parents deaths towards Naomi, so I'm a bit excited for less angst-y and a little more open Batman from Bendis, basically a Batman that uses his words more instead of hild it in.

Also, I've got the feeling that Black Adam will be in JL to make her sees that there exist other forms of heroisms, which can be more criticable than Supe's but can be explained and understood.

Eh, I think he's there b/c of Endless Winter and his movie.

@Lemonpeace : as it ever been explained how so many peoples seemed to be changed beyond the 29 ?

My pet theory is that some were uplifted by super-geniuses like Akira and that others were indeed affected by the Crisis but to a lesser degree than the 29, only achieving minimal super-powers (kind of like Duke's original light powers at most, in my mind).

We don't the know what the 29 super powered look like, hell we don't even know what the powered people who might have never come forward look like, although we did see the silhouettes of 20, and only one of them looked beyond human as they had wings and a tail.

It seemed the only time we saw people who didn't look human were if they fighting for Zumbado's side which as Naomi's mom said, Z remade half of the world into the worst versions of themselves.

I have a no idea how a seemingly normal earth would somehow now have flying dragons/lizards tho.

But what I'm certain is that when Noami's parents sent her away, they lost the support of some of their most devoted, and I think that it was because they never were given the opportunity to send their loved ones away, while the two "Gods" they served decided that they could. It must have hurt hard and I'd love for Noami to one day met someone like that, who was suepr devoted to her parents, lost everything but still believed in them until they decided they were above losing what everyone else had lost, becoming bitter and resentful at them.

I can't see how the three of them (with Akira) could have lost to Zumbado if their own troops hadn't turned on them.

Naomi's mom was pretty straightforward in her message tho, some people followed them and others followed Zumbado, nothing indicated that Naomi's parents and Akira was stronger than Zumbado, in fact it sounded like Zumbado was stronger if he could remake half of the world into the worst versions of themselves.

To add to this, I got the impression that while Zumbado probably thought himself the ruler/leader/strongest of the powered people, he maintained the belief that all powered people were chosen to rule over the non-powered people. After the first clash/war of the opposing sides, Naomi's mom mentioned how Zumbado basically forced them to become kings and queens and how they tried to not cross whatever invisible line that would trigger Zumbado which sounds like Zumbado got what he wanted and that he probably thought that kept his enemies alive on his whim ...and maybe he still thought he could persuade them to follow him.

And while there is no doubt in my mind that people changed sides, I don't think it would relate to Naomi or that it would make sense if it related to Naomi b/c Naomi isn't someone's parent, sibling or significant other, she's a miracle baby that no one thought powered people could have and let's be honest here she was the reason that Zumbado started mercilessly attacking and killing them (again) b/c Zabumdo thought he was the strongest but Naomi being the offspring of two powered people would make her the strongest.

[Ascended]

You're right that it wouldn't make sense having another earth jumping world conquerer, I guess a part of me is wondering when Naomi season 2 would take place, and if Bendis and Walker would subvert expectations when it comes to Zumbado, like say Naomi season 2 takes place before she joined the league and in season 2 she defeats Zumbado

Could be. I don't think Bendis has said a thing about season 2, has he?

My assumption is that season 2 will be the full invasion. Naomi's appearances in Action and Young Justice will amount to, essentially, a "training montage" and the JL arc will be a skirmish that, ultimately, doesn't amount to much in the grand scheme of Zumbado's invasion. Season 2 is where sh*t will really hit the fan.

Ever read Brandon Sanderson's Stormlight Archive? He writes these huge novels, and it takes years for each one to come out. But in between he does these short stories. And if you read those you get a richer, fuller picture....but if you don't you're not really missing anything truly important or critical.

Here's thing tho, isn't the core of Naomi's story in all of season 1...

Her origin, yeah. But it's like....nobody would want to see Superman get married in someone else's book right? That's the kind of major character development that should happen in his own comic. Naomi can train with Young Justice and fight in a skirmish from her homearth in JL, but the major story beats and her major developments should all be in her own title.

Bendis talked about him and Walker doing 2 or 3 more seasons of Naomi, and from what I remember it didn't sound like there were plans to launch an ongoing after.

Eh, if the seasons sell well they'll launch a ongoing. If the seasons don't do well, they won't. Just like everything else. And if they don't sell then Bendis, if he wants to continue Naomi's story at all, will have to do it in other titles. But that's a problem for *after* the seasons stop selling. Right now we have a season 1 that's done so well they're turning it into a tv show, so let's see how far that can go before we start to worry about running out of miniseries with Naomi's story left unfinished.

My pet theory is that some were uplifted by super-geniuses like Akira and that others were indeed affected by the Crisis but to a lesser degree than the 29, only achieving minimal super-powers (kind of like Duke's original light powers at most, in my mind).

I think it's entirely likely that there were more than just the 29 at first, but not everyone went public....and it's possible that the Crisis-Touched were able to share their power and create more of their own kind.

I still think the theory that these powers are the Naomi-earth's version of the white and black Lanterns makes some sense. Those people we saw who apparently changed sides, and switched from supporting Naomi's parents to Zumbado? I won't be surprised to find out Zumbado corrupted and/or killed them and turned them into his minions.

[CellarDweller]

So far, she has bonded with Superman and Batman considering her origins (sent away from her homeworld and her parents were killed by a criminal) but it's true that she didn't bond at all with Diana, I don't even think she met her yet, as she ?

I haven't see her meet WW yet.

From what I recall, she's met Superman, Batman, the Wonder Twins, Ray Palmer, and the most recent kids from Young Justice.

[kurenai24]

Could be. I don't think Bendis has said a thing about season 2, has he?

He has only mentioned there will be a season 2 but not what's in it.

And I think he's mentioned at least one more season after Naomi season 2 on a podcast but I don't remember.

My assumption is that season 2 will be the full invasion. Naomi's appearances in Action and Young Justice will amount to, essentially, a "training montage" and the JL arc will be a skirmish that, ultimately, doesn't amount to much in the grand scheme of Zumbado's invasion. Season 2 is where sh*t will really hit the fan.

I kind of think the opposite, I think the book will have the same slice of life feel as the first with maybe a clash between some underlings...

Ever read Brandon Sanderson's Stormlight Archive? He writes these huge novels, and it takes years for each one to come out. But in between he does these short stories. And if you read those you get a richer, fuller picture....but if you don't you're not really missing anything truly important or critical.

I actually have learned of his existence this year b/c I'm waiting on Amazon's Wheel of Time lol.

But isn't Naomi's story more comparable to the short stories Sanderson writes for his novels, while his novels can sort of be compared to the dcu as a whole b/c it's about these dcu characters and their books and what they add to the DCU world and you don't need need to read every book to know what's going with the dcu as a whole, just like you don't need to read short stories to know what's going on in the world of Starlight Archive.

Her origin, yeah. But it's like....nobody would want to see Superman get married in someone else's book right? That's the kind of major character development that should happen in his own comic. Naomi can train with Young Justice and fight in a skirmish from her homearth in JL, but the major story beats and her major developments should all be in her own title.

And I understand that, and you're right certain things should happen in her book but I just don't see how Naomi and her world can have an impact on the dcu if it stays in just her book.

Look, Bendis was selling the book and selling the importance of it and he's no different than other writers who are trying to get readers to buy their product, but there are certain things Bendis said that other creators who have introduced new characters never say, they don't bring up Jack Kirby and Fourth World, they don't say that their new character is DC's greatest secret or that their new character and their world will impact the DC universe as a whole...

So unfortunately the big story beats that we want to happen, the invasion, the defeat of Zumbado, if they happen in Naomi's book it would be like a whimper instead of the impactful big scale thing it would need to be.

Maybe I'm holding Bendis to his word too literally, but you don't compare to Zumbado to Darkseid if not even the Justice League book would be a part of this.

Eh, if the seasons sell well they'll launch a ongoing. If the seasons don't do well, they won't. Just like everything else. And if they don't sell then Bendis, if he wants to continue Naomi's story at all, will have to do it in other titles. But that's a problem for *after* the seasons stop selling. Right now we have a season 1 that's done so well they're turning it into a tv show, so let's see how far that can go before we start to worry about running out of miniseries with Naomi's story left unfinished.

Eh I'm not worried about an ongoing, hell I will advocate for the cancelation of Naomi season 3 (if that's a thing) at this point b/c I don't want to wait 3 to 5 yrs after season 2.

I'm not saying Naomi will never have an ongoing or that she's missed her chance b/c I can totally see it in the future for her, but I feel like if Bendis or Walker had more to tell in regards to her homeworld and Zumbado outside of the major cliff notes that we know, they would have advocated for a maxi or a limited run.

Once again using Bendis own words, if Naomi and her world has as big of an impact on the DCU as he stated, then some story beats would have happened outside of her mini-series irregardless.

[Ascended]

I actually have learned of his existence this year b/c I'm waiting on Amazon's Wheel of Time lol.

Oh you're a WoT fan? Tai'shar manetheren.

But isn't Naomi's story more comparable to the short stories Sanderson writes for his novels, while his novels can sort of be compared to the dcu as a whole

Arguably? Sure. Semantics, really. My point was that I figure Naomi's stuff in these other books can be like those short stories while the major moments can/should be in her own title....until we get to a point where we know she won't be getting another season, anyway. And then we'll have no choice.

And I understand that, and you're right certain things should happen in her book but I just don't see how Naomi and her world can have an impact on the dcu if it stays in just her book.

Not *just* in her book. I'm thrilled that she's been in these other titles and is getting a big arc in JL. I want her to get *all* the exposure! I just want the *major* big important moments of her character/journey to be in her own book. Defeating Zumbado, that should happen in a Naomi season, not "random issue of JL."

Not gonna break my heart if things play out differently though. And this might be my lingering "they shot Nightwing in the head, derailed his whole story, and then brought him back all in somebody else's book and I hate it!" disgust.

So unfortunately the big story beats that we want to happen, the invasion, the defeat of Zumbado, if they happen in Naomi's book it would be like a whimper instead of the impactful big scale thing it would need to be.

Eh, the Justice League can be there with her when she has these big moments. I just want those moments in her title, if it can be managed.

I'm not saying Naomi will never have an ongoing or that she's missed her chance b/c I can totally see it in the future for her, but I feel like if Bendis or Walker had more to tell in regards to her homeworld and Zumbado outside of the major cliff notes that we know, they would have advocated for a maxi or a limited run.

Her story unfolding in seasons isn't really all that different.

[kurenai24]

I don't think I ever noticed this but...

20201229_122815.jpg

The part where she thanks Bendis and Walker and her writing partner for joining her on Naomi, makes it sound like Bendis and Walker are involved in the show beyond the typical capacity most creators of adapted works are...

Oh you're a WoT fan? Tai'shar manetheren.

Arguably? Sure. Semantics, really. My point was that I figure Naomi's stuff in these other books can be like those short stories while the major moments can/should be in her own title....until we get to a point where we know she won't be getting another season, anyway. And then we'll have no choice.

Not *just* in her book. I'm thrilled that she's been in these other titles and is getting a big arc in JL. I want her to get *all* the exposure! I just want the *major* big important moments of her character/journey to be in her own book. Defeating Zumbado, that should happen in a Naomi season, not "random issue of JL."

Not gonna break my heart if things play out differently though. And this might be my lingering "they shot Nightwing in the head, derailed his whole story, and then brought him back all in somebody else's book and I hate it!" disgust.

Eh, the Justice League can be there with her when she has these big moments. I just want those moments in her title, if it can be managed.

Her story unfolding in seasons isn't really all that different.

In all honesty, I just hope these seasons are worth the wait.