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  1. #2401
    Astonishing Member Korath's Avatar
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    My bet is that they try to fit a round peg in a square hole.

    Damian as Robin is a very different creature than any others, even Jason, with whom he has similarities in his character (abrasive and harsher compared to the previous ones - Dick and Tim respectively) and it certainly plays a part. Robin is designed to be a team member, either as the minor portion of the Dynamic Duo or the well-balanced leader of a super-team. But neither Damian nor Jason fits in those roles. Jason found himself a family/team with the Outlaws, but he isn't exactly the leader in the same vein Dick or Tim can be or have been in their own teams. And Jason works best when he is less associated with Batman, not more.

    I think that Damian taking his distance with his father, at this point in his published history, is actually for the best. Repeated attempted to make him like the "successful" Robins will hinder him more in the long run, IMO, because it'd make escaping this role harder. Look at Dick (the Original) and Tim (the Perfect) who, one way or another, are constantly defined/reminded of their time in the Robin colors, where Jason has truly become Red Hood, made this identity his and Robin is only a small part of his story and who he is.

    Damian as the Son of Batman doesn't need to be Robin to exist, and the longer his character will be badly used (like in Supersons, or that Super Sons graphic novel or whatever "Ian" horror story) the harder it'll be for him to grow.

  2. #2402
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    My bet is that they try to fit a round peg in a square hole.

    Damian as Robin is a very different creature than any others, even Jason, with whom he has similarities in his character (abrasive and harsher compared to the previous ones - Dick and Tim respectively) and it certainly plays a part. Robin is designed to be a team member, either as the minor portion of the Dynamic Duo or the well-balanced leader of a super-team. But neither Damian nor Jason fits in those roles. Jason found himself a family/team with the Outlaws, but he isn't exactly the leader in the same vein Dick or Tim can be or have been in their own teams. And Jason works best when he is less associated with Batman, not more.

    I think that Damian taking his distance with his father, at this point in his published history, is actually for the best. Repeated attempted to make him like the "successful" Robins will hinder him more in the long run, IMO, because it'd make escaping this role harder. Look at Dick (the Original) and Tim (the Perfect) who, one way or another, are constantly defined/reminded of their time in the Robin colors, where Jason has truly become Red Hood, made this identity his and Robin is only a small part of his story and who he is.

    Damian as the Son of Batman doesn't need to be Robin to exist, and the longer his character will be badly used (like in Supersons, or that Super Sons graphic novel or whatever "Ian" horror story) the harder it'll be for him to grow.
    I would prefer if they actually let him actually be Robin and work at his father's side for more than a few issues for once before thinking about his future and replacement. Let him just be Robin for some time and enjoy the present.
    I disagree that he was badly uses in Super Sons. Damian getting to relax a bit for once was really nice and lots of people seem to agree considering the demand online to bring it back.

  3. #2403
    Astonishing Member Korath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Astralabius View Post
    I would prefer if they actually let him actually be Robin and work at his father's side for more than a few issues for once before thinking about his future and replacement. Let him just be Robin for some time and enjoy the present.
    I disagree that he was badly uses in Super Sons. Damian getting to relax a bit for once was really nice and lots of people seem to agree considering the demand online to bring it back.
    I really hated the way Tomasi used him in Supersons, so I'm really happy this series is dead for now. Him and Kid Jon felt so damn forced and to his detriment that Damian being away from it is a good thing in my eyes. And while I'd definitively prefer him to be with a Batman, it'd have to be DickBat not Bruce at that point. Tom King did so much damage to Bruce as a character that I don't want to see Damian and Bruce together for the time being, since it's obvious that for King, Damian is the unwanted son dragging Bruce down.

  4. #2404
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    My bet is that they try to fit a round peg in a square hole.

    Damian as Robin is a very different creature than any others, even Jason, with whom he has similarities in his character (abrasive and harsher compared to the previous ones - Dick and Tim respectively) and it certainly plays a part. Robin is designed to be a team member, either as the minor portion of the Dynamic Duo or the well-balanced leader of a super-team. But neither Damian nor Jason fits in those roles. Jason found himself a family/team with the Outlaws, but he isn't exactly the leader in the same vein Dick or Tim can be or have been in their own teams. And Jason works best when he is less associated with Batman, not more.

    I think that Damian taking his distance with his father, at this point in his published history, is actually for the best. Repeated attempted to make him like the "successful" Robins will hinder him more in the long run, IMO, because it'd make escaping this role harder. Look at Dick (the Original) and Tim (the Perfect) who, one way or another, are constantly defined/reminded of their time in the Robin colors, where Jason has truly become Red Hood, made this identity his and Robin is only a small part of his story and who he is.

    Damian as the Son of Batman doesn't need to be Robin to exist, and the longer his character will be badly used (like in Supersons, or that Super Sons graphic novel or whatever "Ian" horror story) the harder it'll be for him to grow.
    Damian not being Robin is a good starting point for something. Looking at his origins, he was getting shoved down with the legacy of the League of Shadows and the Batman. Either be the heir to the Bat or the Head of the Demon. The kid is always being overshadowed by the two, I think it'll be interesting for him to try in distance himself from the Bat and the League of Shadows, try and find his own place and identity.

  5. #2405
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eckri View Post
    Damian not being Robin is a good starting point for something. Looking at his origins, he was getting shoved down with the legacy of the League of Shadows and the Batman. Either be the heir to the Bat or the Head of the Demon. The kid is always being overshadowed by the two, I think it'll be interesting for him to try in distance himself from the Bat and the League of Shadows, try and find his own place and identity.
    Sorry to say this, but I doubt Damian will ever be free of this legacy angle. If he breaks away from Batman they might simply use him as the failed blood son who never managed to live up to Batman's standards. DC looks at almost everything from Batman's angle.
    Last edited by Astralabius; 06-23-2020 at 06:23 AM.

  6. #2406
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    I really hated the way Tomasi used him in Supersons, so I'm really happy this series is dead for now. Him and Kid Jon felt so damn forced and to his detriment that Damian being away from it is a good thing in my eyes. And while I'd definitively prefer him to be with a Batman, it'd have to be DickBat not Bruce at that point. Tom King did so much damage to Bruce as a character that I don't want to see Damian and Bruce together for the time being, since it's obvious that for King, Damian is the unwanted son dragging Bruce down.
    Maybe not on this board, but I thing in general you are in the minority with that opinion.
    Not sure if King really saw it that way. He did make Thomas say that Damian was definitely Bruce's son. King simply seemed to dislike any character that wasn't Selina in general, including Bruce.
    I don't think Dick becoming Batman again would help him right now. Damian deserves some more time with a well written Bruce.

  7. #2407
    Astonishing Member sifighter's Avatar
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    Well I read the new teen titans today, I hope they know what they are doing

    spoilers:
    Essentially someone has murdered Brother Blood and the teen titans want to figure out who did it, now it’s important to note that at no time did anyone call out Damian. No one talked in a corner suspecting him or talking about him, instead it’s left very vague about Damian while most of the issue has Damian saying to himself that he doesn’t know what to do or how to channel himself without Alfred there to give him advice or guidance.

    Personally there are a lot of ways this can go down, they can either write that Damian went through with it or Bruce and others honestly believe he is responsible when he did nothing. Neither way sound like it would end well for Damian. Honestly I hope this doesn’t go poorly for Damian, it’s clear he’s already going through some things during this issue.
    end of spoilers
    "It's fun and it's cool, so that's all that matters. It's what comics are for, Duh."
    Words to live by.

  8. #2408
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    Quote Originally Posted by sifighter View Post
    Well I read the new teen titans today, I hope they know what they are doing

    spoilers:
    Essentially someone has murdered Brother Blood and the teen titans want to figure out who did it, now it’s important to note that at no time did anyone call out Damian. No one talked in a corner suspecting him or talking about him, instead it’s left very vague about Damian while most of the issue has Damian saying to himself that he doesn’t know what to do or how to channel himself without Alfred there to give him advice or guidance.

    Personally there are a lot of ways this can go down, they can either write that Damian went through with it or Bruce and others honestly believe he is responsible when he did nothing. Neither way sound like it would end well for Damian. Honestly I hope this doesn’t go poorly for Damian, it’s clear he’s already going through some things during this issue.
    end of spoilers
    Based on this, I think Damian is a red herring, he'll use whatever happens next as an excuse to leave the team and look into things on his own.

  9. #2409
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    Quote Originally Posted by king81992 View Post
    Based on this, I think Damian is a red herring, he'll use whatever happens next as an excuse to leave the team and look into things on his own.
    I really enjoyed the issue I found the tone a really nice change of pace. I especially enjoyed Roundhouse's mom making snacks for the team and Damian enjoying the vegan snack she made for him. A murder just happened and my favorite moment was Damian enjoying a vegan snack made by Roundhouse's mom. Its really little moments like that really make me like this series. I want more moments like that.

  10. #2410
    Extraordinary Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Light of Justice View Post
    I am curious, why Damian never seems to have persistent series with persistent writer (excluding Morrison as his original creator)? Many of his project was canceled, like Robin Son of Batman, Supersons, and Damian Son of Batman. He also doesn't have any companions who stays long, Colin is forgotten, Maya is forgotten, the closest he has for friend is Jon, and he's gone to join legion. We can't say Percy's TT and Glass's TT as one series because there's too many difference between them, Percy's TT lasted for 20 issues, and Damian left Glass's TT after 24 issue. I want to try to see it from business perspective, is it because there's so many writer who want to write him, but doesn't want to keep him longer than necessary? Or he's still hated by common fans and didn't get many profit so DC have to repeatedly switch his writers?
    It's a combination of the bad luck and the fact that Damian was introduced just before DC went reboot crazy.

    Bad luck
    RSOB was cancelled for Supersons
    Supersons because Hot new writer had other plans
    Damian Son of Batman was a mini set while Damian was dead.

    Tim was the only Robin with a series [Dick did have over 300 solo adventures featured in Star Spangled Comics back in the day]

    Tim's Robin solo happened because DC wanted to set up Robin as a solo hero with his own world, Support and adventures. They wanted to Robin independent of Batman.

    They dedicated a good deal of time and resources to it and it happened at the perfect time. The comics market was very healthy and the Batfamily wasn't as crowded.

    Thing's were also much calmer and stable. Good times.

    Damian blindsided everyone. DC weren't planning on a new Robin. He wasn't planned so he didn't have the well thought out project plan that Tim did. There was no strategy. No meeting were creatives get together to plan how to and where to with his character.

    he was fill in Robin for Grant's story and he would be killed off afterwards.

    When Damian died DC and the new Batman writer had Duke already waiting in the wings to take over until WB set them an email.

    So again DC was blindsided and had no plans so they scrambled. Gleason saved the day but since then we've had bad luck of cancellation due to other influences.

    The friends going missing is not unique to Damian. Sadly it happens far too often in comics. Writers get royalties from original characters so they all want to create their own. It doesn't help that Damian hasn't had a regular writer and series to establish his support cast/world.

  11. #2411
    Extraordinary Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    I really hated the way Tomasi used him in Supersons, so I'm really happy this series is dead for now. Him and Kid Jon felt so damn forced and to his detriment that Damian being away from it is a good thing in my eyes. And while I'd definitively prefer him to be with a Batman, it'd have to be DickBat not Bruce at that point. Tom King did so much damage to Bruce as a character that I don't want to see Damian and Bruce together for the time being, since it's obvious that for King, Damian is the unwanted son dragging Bruce down.
    I enjoyed supersons. Wasn't always a fan of how Damian was handled but i was sad to see it end. I do however agree that the distance will serve both characters well.

    I hate how fans always bring up Damian when complaining about the Jon's age up.
    " Damian's missing his pal or Jon is lonely without his pal" "Maybe Damian should be aged up so he can be with his BFF" They bring up Jon when commenting on Damian's current TT arc. "If only Jon was here he'd balance him out or he wouldn't be acting this way"

    That's fucking atrocious, rude and stupid. Damian is an established character and should not be constantly referenced as 1 half of a duo.

    Not to mention that giving another character credit for his development/growth [that occurred before this new character was created] is hella disrespectful.

    Jon and Damian are great as a duo but they are also solid stand alone characters who shouldn't be sold as a pair.

    I wouldn't mind the two getting an out of continuity maxi or just have occasional adventures every now and then just to balance things out. Damian's stories tend to be Dark. he's usually so super serious and adult. Supersons would break it up.

  12. #2412
    Extraordinary Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by king81992 View Post
    Death Metal is probably going to wind up as a psuedo- reboot, not an official one like Crisis, but it will probably alter continuity/ canon, most likely by making things more convoluted. That first issue was am incoherent mess, I worry about what's to come.

    Not sure how adding Jon would redeem the team either. The entire franchise needed redemption long before the current roster came into play.

    The way to redeem the Titans franchise is to have a good run with established members. If a writer manages a good run with unestablished members/ new characters, fans will be saying it doesn't count Titans in name only or say that the established members were shafted.
    The Titans franchise has been meh to bad for a while now. Since before the New52.
    The TT can work with the new members so long as they have good stories. I din't know what you mean by established members.
    The OG Team, NTT or the most well known line up from TTGO ?

    The established members are no longer teens so they can't be on the TT. When they were deaged and put on a team with a teen fans kept complaining. You were very vocal on your dislike for Gar, Raven and Star being on a team with Damian.

    FANS won't complain because DC tried that in Rebirth and they still complained.

  13. #2413
    Extraordinary Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dietrich View Post
    I enjoyed supersons. Wasn't always a fan of how Damian was handled but i was sad to see it end. I do however agree that the distance will serve both characters well.

    I hate how fans always bring up Damian when complaining about the Jon's age up.
    " Damian's missing his pal or Jon is lonely without his pal" "Maybe Damian should be aged up so he can be with his BFF" They bring up Jon when commenting on Damian's current TT arc. "If only Jon was here he'd balance him out or he wouldn't be acting this way"

    That's fucking atrocious, rude and stupid. Damian is an established character and should not be constantly referenced as 1 half of a duo.

    Not to mention that giving another character credit for his development/growth [that occurred before this new character was created] is hella disrespectful.

    Jon and Damian are great as a duo but they are also solid stand alone characters who shouldn't be sold as a pair.

    I wouldn't mind the two getting an out of continuity maxi or just have occasional adventures every now and then just to balance things out. Damian's stories tend to be Dark. he's usually so super serious and adult. Supersons would break it up.
    While I was and am a big supporter of Damian, Jon, Maya, Colin, and Kathy all at least being on a team together (a group of friends, much like the OG Titans), Jon being aged up was so wrong for SO many reasons. Many of which were because of missing out on his own stories growing up and what not. And I wanted to see Damian and Jon go through growing up in their own ways, coming from their own backgrounds and what not.

    Obviously, that didn't happen, and now I settle for fanfics that cover such things. Which are rather are hard to come by because a lot of writers like to write explicit material with a couple of kids!

    And Bendis' Jon is still fake Jon. A plant by Earth 3 to spy on the Justice League and the Legion in the future. The real one is stuck in an awful daycare that nullifies his powers, and he has to eat yucky food and be creeped out by "nice" Damian.

  14. #2414
    Fantastic Member Light of Justice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sifighter View Post
    Well I read the new teen titans today, I hope they know what they are doing

    spoilers:
    Essentially someone has murdered Brother Blood and the teen titans want to figure out who did it, now itís important to note that at no time did anyone call out Damian. No one talked in a corner suspecting him or talking about him, instead itís left very vague about Damian while most of the issue has Damian saying to himself that he doesnít know what to do or how to channel himself without Alfred there to give him advice or guidance.

    Personally there are a lot of ways this can go down, they can either write that Damian went through with it or Bruce and others honestly believe he is responsible when he did nothing. Neither way sound like it would end well for Damian. Honestly I hope this doesnít go poorly for Damian, itís clear heís already going through some things during this issue.
    end of spoilers
    spoilers:
    Hmm.. I wonder why Damian said "you need to know why" and not "we need to know why". I really really hope that I am wrong, but what if Damian is the one who killed Brother Blood and he led the team to Brother Blood's toxin supplies so they will see the benefit of killing Brother Blood? Then after said that vague sentence, he confessed his crime to Brother Blood?

    But, if Damian really killed Brother Blood then he's screwed. His death is already aired on TV, so maybe police will investigate the crime. And perhaps Batman starts moving to track Damian on police's request. Speaking of Batman, I am ashamed that I just realized that the monologue on last page is Batman's monologue, not Damian's. They're really similar at some point aren't they. These Waynes....... they can't be functional human being without Alfred
    end of spoilers

  15. #2415
    Fantastic Member Light of Justice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dietrich View Post
    It's a combination of the bad luck and the fact that Damian was introduced just before DC went reboot crazy.

    Bad luck
    RSOB was cancelled for Supersons
    Supersons because Hot new writer had other plans
    Damian Son of Batman was a mini set while Damian was dead.

    Tim was the only Robin with a series [Dick did have over 300 solo adventures featured in Star Spangled Comics back in the day]

    Tim's Robin solo happened because DC wanted to set up Robin as a solo hero with his own world, Support and adventures. They wanted to Robin independent of Batman.

    They dedicated a good deal of time and resources to it and it happened at the perfect time. The comics market was very healthy and the Batfamily wasn't as crowded.

    Thing's were also much calmer and stable. Good times.

    Damian blindsided everyone. DC weren't planning on a new Robin. He wasn't planned so he didn't have the well thought out project plan that Tim did. There was no strategy. No meeting were creatives get together to plan how to and where to with his character.

    he was fill in Robin for Grant's story and he would be killed off afterwards.

    When Damian died DC and the new Batman writer had Duke already waiting in the wings to take over until WB set them an email.

    So again DC was blindsided and had no plans so they scrambled. Gleason saved the day but since then we've had bad luck of cancellation due to other influences.

    The friends going missing is not unique to Damian. Sadly it happens far too often in comics. Writers get royalties from original characters so they all want to create their own. It doesn't help that Damian hasn't had a regular writer and series to establish his support cast/world.
    Until WB sent them an email? So Son of Batman'a movie is the reason why Damian's death is not permanent? I see.. Perhaps DC really don't want to bring him back, that's why they set Damian badly so they can get rid of him without any protest. Looking at the situation, perhaps it's better if Damian was permanently died on Batman Incorporated. No, I think it's better if Damian died in the end of RSOB for a long time, instead for a few minutes. I can see maya became devastated, came out of the cave, see Batman and Talia still argued with each other, and smack them both. Seriously my brain, stop creating angst plot!!!

    Writers get loyalties from original characters, so maybe Thompson will create one or two original character to add them as new member of TT, replacing Damian and Djinn

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