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  1. #2491
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fergus View Post
    Rebirth Deathstroke's obsession with Damian had nothing to do with him being a TT's villain.
    Slade simply loves Damian because he can access the love he craves and feels [yet doesn't know how to express with his kids] with Damian because he is like Slade. Which I sort of can see.

    Priest states that he hints at Damian's parentage all through his run! I didn't get that and I'm glad I didn't. That seems OTT


    https://www.cbr.com/damian-wayne-deathstrokes-son/


    In an interview with Newsarama, Priest revealed that he hinted at Damian's parentage throughout his run. "'The World's Worst Dad' is about a man who loves and desperately wants to be loved but is capable of neither. So, he does skanky stuff like put a hit out on his daughter so he can spend time with her. And, in the latter part of the series, Deathstroke clearly falls in love with Damian Wayne. I hope fans can understand that, I hope they got that. Deathstroke loves that kid and can access that love in ways he cannot with his own children because Damian is so very much like him."


    DC however wasn't thrilled with Damian being a Wilson so Priest did the next best thing. 'Altstroke' The perfect Slade Wilson


    http://www.multiversitycomics.com/in...est-interview/

    DC feels more like Gene Roddenberry’s utopian view of the future, where kindness, forethought, and patience are the rules of the day. How does Deathstroke function in that kind of environment? I mean, I had Slade kill Power Girl’s dog in issue #17, and that was a major push. So far as I am concerned Slade, not Bruce, is Damian Wayne’s father. I mean, I get why DC made the call they did, and Damian is not *my* multi-million-dollar I.P. to gamble with, but I lobbied hard for another, in my opinion, more daring choice that would have shaken things up, enraged fans, and launched dozens of exciting stories.


    Maybe if “Deathstroke” was published under their Black Label [imprint] there’d be more flex in terms of what the character could be.

    This was my real motive for AltStroke. Since we were about to take our bow, I thought I’d like to write the character the way he should, in my view, actually be portrayed: as a totally ruthless, unlikeable bitch. And Damian IS his son (Laughs). Now, could AltStroke sustain his own monthly title? I actually think yes in the short term, not in the longer term because eventually he’d either kill everybody or kill himself or we’d fall into the cliché of constantly contriving reasons he wouldn’t.

    But at least Deathstroke, as I’d have actually liked to have written him, made a brief cameo before we turned out the lights.

    https://www.cbr.com/dcs-dark-multive...t-deathstroke/


    Instead of being a clone or a copycat of the main Deathstroke, the elder Wilson has been marooned on Earth from the Dark Multiverse. But before he arrived here, he was truly the most ideal killer. After the Dark Slade kills his world's Batman, Damian Wayne and Wonder Woman show up alongside him, basking in the bloody glory. With Damian sipping on a juice box, the issue pays homage to a story that teased the idea that Slade could really have been this Robin's dad.

    In this reality, Slade he is Damian's father, and Wonder Woman is his mother. Together, they make up Slade's perfect, deadly family. After Batman's death, the Teen Titans, his traditional rivals, show up, and Slade and his family prove just how deadly they really can be.

    this Slade Wilson accomplished more in a few pages than his counterpart has in his entire career. Even though the main Slade had elaborate plans to take down the Titans like the one he used in "The Judas Contract" storyline, he and his family take out the Titans and Batman with a straightforward and practical approach and effective allies a family who get the job done.

    The deadly Dark Multiverse trinity of Slade, Diana and Damian accomplish far more than the real Slade ever did with his children Jericho and Ravager. With a demigoddess for a wife and an elite assassin for a son, the Dark Multiverse Deathstroke is living his best life.
    I appreciate that Priest didn't pretend that Deathstroke was misunderstood or try to justify his crimes like Wolfman and others did, but his ideas regarding Damian and Slade's relationship being father and son are total garbage.
    Last edited by king81992; 06-30-2020 at 03:23 PM.

  2. #2492
    Astonishing Member Fergus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sifighter View Post
    As a Damian fan I did like Hope at Worlds End#4, and while the story was expected from what we’ve seen already it was nice to have. Besides Damian the rest of the issue focused on the Aerie and Wink from the current Suicide Still run also written by Taylor which I do recommend.

    spoilers:
    I don’t want to ruin it for people but basically it’s the moment where Damian suits up to be the new Batman after a heart to heart with Superman. It’s a relatively sweet moment and Damian comes off as pretty respectful to Bruce even as he still argues about him. It’s probably the best we are going to get for a while of Damian suiting up to be Batman and I guess plays an interesting parallel for when Taylor made Damian Nightwing in Injustice, if you want to look at it that way.

    Also apparently Damian is only 12, at least that’s what Superman said.
    end of spoilers
    Tom Taylor really should be on more in canon titles. Give him Superman, Batman or Green Arrow.

    Damian and Clark were the standout this issue.
    It's been a minute since Superman read like Superman

  3. #2493
    Astonishing Member Fergus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by king81992 View Post
    I appreciate that Priest didn't pretend that Deathstroke was misunderstood or try to justify his crimes like Wolfman and others did, but his ideas regarding Damian and Slade's relationship being father and son are total garbage.
    Not sure why he thought DC would ever go for it but I do get what he means about Slade being like Damian when it comes to expressing their feeling through snarky or roundabount ways.
    The panel with Tim and Damian from Robin special is a perfect example. Where Damian is being complimentary, offering advice mixed with snark and insults



    I enjoyed his run and wouldn't mind seeing more of AltStroke's world.

  4. #2494
    Spectacular Member Rebeca Armus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Light of Justice View Post
    Don't know about that, but indeed younger generation right now prefer deep complicated personality good heart bad boy appeals. I mean, ATLA's fan favorite character is Zuko, Naruto is Sasuke, Inuyasha is Sesshomaru, etc. Like perhaps because they're mostly assholes, when they did something good, fans will feel "aww, he actually has a heart.." something like that. It doesn't have to be younger generation and older generation. I know some younger people who hate Damian with passion, and I also think there's older people who love Damian.

    I personally like a character who think highly of himself. Perhaps most person don't like arrogant character, but for me man or woman who has high confidence on themselves are cool and interesting. But I also like when arrogant character have moments of 'self-insecure', hidden from everyone with boast and snark. That's why my favorite man in Marvel is Iron Man, and my favorite in DC is Damian.
    I disliked Sasuke in all Naruto and didn't like Sesshomaru, now, Zuko, is the example of bad deep complicated personality good heart bad boy easily to fall in love.

    I don't know about put all them in just one group, because there is an "egoistic factor" that separete this. Damian, Zuko, maybe Vegeta, have this proud, auto sacrifice, brave heart and a insecurete, they are more needy too. Sasuke and Sessho are more egoistic, strong, help other but not in the same level?
    Damian is like "I want to say something nice, but I don't know how because feelings are complicate for someone like me" and Sasuke is like "Meh, just don't wanna to say nothing nice for nobody, whatever".
    or
    Jason - bad deep complicated deep injured personality explosive good heart bad boy.
    Genos - Naive serious complicated good good heart cold boy.

    I thought this now because "bad boy" or "serious boy" or "cold boy" are actually not very good classifications? I don't know, it's just because I really disliked Sasuke and Damian is my favorite current character now.

    But my original point was >< Damian is a character with appeals, and would be welcomed in any media. I am sad thinking about DC take him out.

  5. #2495
    Spectacular Member Rebeca Armus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Light of Justice View Post
    For me it's more like Priest's obsession on Damian. But I think Damian has plenty good reason to have a grudge on Slade. Slade with Talia took control of his body, Slade tried to kill Maya, Slade attempted to drown him, Slade attacked Bat-cave, and many more I don't remember all of them. Let's just say that they're not on right term.

    I found good analysis comment about Damian's act on Terminum Agenda from think link : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnNrcHmo9V0



    well, not that I disagree, but this TT run really has a knack to choose wrong trigger for Damian. At first random restaurant, then this...
    This are a good reason, maybe this comment was a little too intensive, but make senses. Match with Damian too.
    I asked this because sometimes I have a confuse feeling about how in Hero Comics sometimes a act is unforgiven and others are looks like never happened. This dinamic with Slade x all heroes is like this for me, one time he is almost killing Dick controlling Damian and in the other Batman and Slade are talking with a "complicade dinamic", When Damian and Jason fought I was sure next time they meet would be crazy, but was like nothing happened. (same before with battle for the cowl), and when Damian put the crowbar in Jason's bed....
    Sometimes forgiven-notforgiven is very well done, but sometimes is so weird I think "did I miss something?".

  6. #2496
    Spectacular Member Rebeca Armus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by king81992 View Post
    The real question is why does Slade have an unhealthy obsession with teenagers and why writers try to justify every crime he committed or pretend he did nothing wrong. I've seen people criticize Priest, but he's one of the few writers who didn't pretend Slade was an antihero/ misunderstood.
    Thanks this is not just me!

    "why does Slade have an unhealthy obsession with teenagers"

    Now every time I see Slade with teenagers I will blink and remembers this...

    For me he is clearly a Villain, and maybe somebody that read can disagree, but characters around him couldn't.

  7. #2497
    Spectacular Member Rebeca Armus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fergus View Post
    Not sure why he thought DC would ever go for it but I do get what he means about Slade being like Damian when it comes to expressing their feeling through snarky or roundabount ways.
    The panel with Tim and Damian from Robin special is a perfect example. Where Damian is being complimentary, offering advice mixed with snark and insults



    I enjoyed his run and wouldn't mind seeing more of AltStroke's world.
    I don't see this two being like each other, I can see a tsundere personality in Damian, but not in Slade and Damian's bad decisions are repentance for him, being a monster with peoples minds and lifes are the final objective of slade, no guilty.

    I LOVE THIS PAGE.
    Last edited by Rebeca Armus; 06-30-2020 at 07:07 PM.

  8. #2498
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebeca Armus View Post
    I disliked Sasuke in all Naruto and didn't like Sesshomaru, now, Zuko, is the example of bad deep complicated personality good heart bad boy easily to fall in love.

    I don't know about put all them in just one group, because there is an "egoistic factor" that separete this. Damian, Zuko, maybe Vegeta, have this proud, auto sacrifice, brave heart and a insecurete, they are more needy too. Sasuke and Sessho are more egoistic, strong, help other but not in the same level?
    Damian is like "I want to say something nice, but I don't know how because feelings are complicate for someone like me" and Sasuke is like "Meh, just don't wanna to say nothing nice for nobody, whatever".
    or
    Jason - bad deep complicated deep injured personality explosive good heart bad boy.
    Genos - Naive serious complicated good good heart cold boy.

    I thought this now because "bad boy" or "serious boy" or "cold boy" are actually not very good classifications? I don't know, it's just because I really disliked Sasuke and Damian is my favorite current character now.

    But my original point was >< Damian is a character with appeals, and would be welcomed in any media. I am sad thinking about DC take him out.
    Sasuke dragged the series down with his nonsense and bad decisions. The fact that Kishimoto kept trying to justify his antics didn't help and he got way to much focus that could've been used to develop the other characters or the setting.

    Sesshomaru gradually mellowed(though he was never as bad as Sasuke) out as Inuyasha progressed and it helped that the writer didn't make him the main focus of multiple story arcs during his edgier phases. Sesshomaru actually got more focus late in the series, after he became less of a jerk.

    Zuko probably had one of the best redemption arcs in a cartoon and anime I've ever seen, the only thing that compares to his redemption was Ken's storyline in the second season of Digimon.

    Damian does suffer consequences when he goes overboard, which makes him a better character than Sasuke, who constantly got excuses to justify his antics. Their archetype is similar, but writers handled them differently.

  9. #2499
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    Quote Originally Posted by king81992 View Post
    I appreciate that Priest didn't pretend that Deathstroke was misunderstood or try to justify his crimes like Wolfman and others did, but his ideas regarding Damian and Slade's relationship being father and son are total garbage.
    My feelings exactly. In my opinion DC made the right call by saying no to him.

  10. #2500
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgoth View Post
    I still think that he'll appear at the end of Joker War, in 100th issue (it's the late September - the early October, don't remember, need to check). That's the excellent way to set up his new chapter, along with that big direction that Tynion was talking about.
    I think Damian fans will like Deceased At World’s End #4) It was great.
    Tynion said Damian would eventually return to the bat titles, so I wonder if that really means he will show up in the main title first. The last interview Tynion and the current group editor for Batman gave made it sound like all the Batman related titles are supposed to work more closesly now, so at least to me it sounds like bat titles could also mean Detective Comics and not necessarily the main Batman book. Tomasi clearly loves Damian while Tynion is more of a Tim fanboy, so I would be a bit suprised if Tynion was the one who wanted to dedicate time to dealing with the rifts between Bruce and Damian.

  11. #2501
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    Quote Originally Posted by Light of Justice View Post
    well, not that I disagree, but this TT run really has a knack to choose wrong trigger for Damian. At first random restaurant, then this...
    One of the reasons I really don't want Damian to become an anti-hero after this.
    For me motivation has always been one of the most important aspect of an anti-hero and the reasons this run gave Damian for his actions are really bad.
    Damian going off the rails because Dick got shot I would have understood, but the restaurant guy that I don't think got mentioned ever again dying? Come on, that's just lazy. Give us something to care about DC.

  12. #2502
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebeca Armus View Post
    This are a good reason, maybe this comment was a little too intensive, but make senses. Match with Damian too.
    I asked this because sometimes I have a confuse feeling about how in Hero Comics sometimes a act is unforgiven and others are looks like never happened. This dinamic with Slade x all heroes is like this for me, one time he is almost killing Dick controlling Damian and in the other Batman and Slade are talking with a "complicade dinamic", When Damian and Jason fought I was sure next time they meet would be crazy, but was like nothing happened. (same before with battle for the cowl), and when Damian put the crowbar in Jason's bed....
    Sometimes forgiven-notforgiven is very well done, but sometimes is so weird I think "did I miss something?".
    It's frustrating, but common. The communication between the bat titles has been really bad for some time. I don't think Lobdell even cared that Glass used Jason as Damian's secret mentor in TT, I don't think it was ever mentioned in Rhato.
    The Jason as Damian's mentor plot was weird in general. Not suprised other writers don't want to deal with it.

    But as I said, it's not really unusual for characters forgetting that they should be very angry at someone. I mean, Batman is partially responsible for the looming destruction of the multiverse because his mistrust in others caused DC metal, but he didn't get kicked out of the Justice League for that.

    Bruce also imprisoned The Batman Who Laughs under the hall of justice without telling anyone and the only thing he had to do to make amends for keeping it secret and failing to keep him imprisoned was making a new data base for all heroes to use.

    It's not exactly fair. Actions have consequences when the story needs them to for the plot. In most over cases they are forgotten because the next writer wants to focus on something else and he doesn't have time to resolve the old issues first, so the characters and the story just move on.

  13. #2503
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    Quote Originally Posted by Astralabius View Post
    Tynion said Damian would eventually return to the bat titles, so I wonder if that really means he will show up in the main title first. The last interview Tynion and the current group editor for Batman gave made it sound like all the Batman related titles are supposed to work more closesly now, so at least to me it sounds like bat titles could also mean Detective Comics and not necessarily the main Batman book. Tomasi clearly loves Damian while Tynion is more of a Tim fanboy, so I would be a bit suprised if Tynion was the one who wanted to dedicate time to dealing with the rifts between Bruce and Damian.
    Tynion is clearly Tim's fan, but unlike Snyder he's not refusing to use Damian, for example, he used him in TMNT crossover.
    Something probably is going on with entire Bat-editor group, because right now Red Hood will get a new writer, Batgirl and Nightwing also will get new authors after Joker War/Death Metal, and Tomasi said, that in January he moves from Detective Comics, but didn't mention, what he's doing next. Regarding characters, they already made it clear, that group wants all Bat-characters under their wing right now. Tim and Stephanie, for example, probably also are going back to Bat-titles, in YJ it seems like that they're leaving and Stephanie already adveristed for Joker War. And we know that Damian is coming back.
    It's actually pretty interesting to see, where is it all going.

  14. #2504
    Extraordinary Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebeca Armus View Post
    I don't see this two being like each other, I can see a tsundere personality in Damian, but not in Slade and Damian's bad decisions are repentance for him, being a monster with peoples minds and lifes are the final objective of slade, no guilty.

    I LOVE THIS PAGE.
    Damian isn't a tsundere. Sure he's poor social skills and doesn't allow anyone to see the real him or get close. Behaviour typical of tsunderes but Damian is far more complex not to mention that once we factor in his past.

    What's assumed to be natural personality and normal reactions becomes less clear since they could be conditioned behaviour, coping mechanisms and selfcare patterns developed to protect the kid from emotional pain.

    damian only ever shares info/details on a need to know bases [Supersons] even with Jon. A character that is close to him-That's conditioned

    He uses a ruse to visit Dick rather than just telling him he missed him. He breaks apart at the thought of Dick replacing him. Crys when Dick got shot, Panics when the duo were about to be broken up yet he always acts like a big shot who couldn't care less towards Dick when all is well. Even going so far as to use frankly insulting names like underling once when talking to him. - Selfcare because he doesn't want to show how much he cares because he doesn't think he deserves this free love. Love has value and is conditional in the LOA so he devalues it so Dick can set conditions for it like Talia and Ra's did.

    His attitude such as always attempting to prove himself be it by challenging his brothers, coping an attitude with adults and folks that can level him with one flick of a finger -coping mechanisms to deal with his inferiority complex and learned behaviour due to his past in an environment where everything is earned. Position, life and even simple stuff like knowing his father's name. All had to be earned.


    Damian is a whole lot more than a tsundere. Though he's also a Wayne so he could just be a tsundere underneath all the layers of stuff.

  15. #2505
    Extraordinary Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Damian likely will return in January when the Batfamily new titles kick off.

    At best we get some civilian Damian as he atones or gets past his current pov on crime fighting whilst doing regular boy stuff.

    As forced as the heel turn was on TT the fact is that Damian made the wrong choice. He took away peoples freedom and trampled on their human rights that isn't okay so he has to face the consequences and I hope we get to see him do so.

    It's not fair on his character for this to be swept away or hand waved. It's will be detrimental to his character [ in story and in the fandom] if this isn't dealt with

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