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  1. #931
    Astonishing Member CPSparkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    I get she is supposed to be an arsehole but in the right hand they still make him likeable.
    Agreed and we saw this in Tomasi's B&R
    Gleason's RSOB
    Morrission's B&R
    Brian Miller's Batgirl
    Lil'Gotham
    Superman, Supersons, Injustice 2, DCeased,Gotham Academy, Streets of Gotham.

    The story from last year's Horror anthology where he teams up with Grundy, The Dc new Talent show case where he's saving cats with Selina, King's Batman, Gotham Resistance, Synder's batman. There's so many versions of likeable Damian.

    Supersons like lil'Gotham has a more kid friendly and funny tone so thie Damian reflects this. These two had the awww! factor so their Damian are the ones that like some more relatable bat characters you just can't help liking.

  2. #932
    Astonishing Member CPSparkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    Who is good at wrong Damian? I mean Dc has people pushing being a asshole too far at times. We need him to still be likable. I know someone said Damian is a feared of Grayson settling down maybe that can be explored if Dc ever allowed that. I know this can’t be cannon since the writers will just not use it but can be explored in other things like alt worlds or elsewhere
    I certainly would love to see that fear of Damian's explored more. Dick was the one who thought him that unconditional love was a thing and took him in when he was homes and had no one after Bruce's death and his return to Gotham. I'm glad Seeley went there and I'd like to see more.
    Dick and Damian's relationship is special because it mirrors Bruce and Dick's. Dick is more than Bruce's first kid and Damian is more than just Dick's brother.

    Likeable is good but even better is an interesting well crafted character that fans can get invested in. I wasn't a fans of Damian when he was introduced. I hated him but as I slowly watched him grow and evolve I've come to like him far more than my Robin [Tim] and more than Dick who was my favourite comic character [now 2]

    Damian isn't always likeable but he's good. I get why why he's the way he is [past, DNa and personality] I'm really interested in his journey and find that he evokes more emotion and passion from me than any other character. And none of that is because of how likeable he is.

  3. #933
    Astonishing Member CPSparkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    Babs being Batgirl, which makes sense since Damian's presence makes it clear they're using modern continuity as their inspiration.
    Yep. I mean look at Kite man

  4. #934
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    In a way this is why I would kind of like to see if Dick did have a kid or someone who did take up Dick’s time. I mean if Dick did get into a serious relationship I would love to see how Damian reacts. I would love to see the way Dick treated him he winds up doing that once he gets over his fears. Dick has a kid that’s his sister or brother

  5. #935
    Astonishing Member CPSparkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dazai_Osamu View Post
    That's what makes Damian interesting, he's a jerk who is trying to become a good person or at least a less bad one. There are jerk characters and you like them because they are authentic in their jerkish way and they are horrible and once in a blue moon they faced consequences and it's right, but after that they are still jerks.

    Supersons is a great disservice for Damian, the most forced 'friendship' ever literally their fathers pushed that friendship, Jon was this generic cute and dull kid who always ended up doing what Damian wanted and Damian was a childish watered down him, he didn't have a childhood and a friend won't give him that, and he also wants respect and be treated as older than he is and SS created the opposite effect and an issue I find disconcerting is: why would a teen Damian like want to be friend with kid Jon? DC wanted a kind of ying yang, they had that effect with Dick, until they ruined him.
    Damian is a kid who's trying to overcome the handicapped of his birth and past. He isn't trying to be a good person he IS a good person.
    He decided to help make sure the world is a better place where innocents don't suffer the second he was exposed to normal society outside of the cult that had been his whole world to then.

    That is a very very normal story. The world is full of stories of people who grew up in cults or closed off environments and their issues when integrating to normal society and how their behaviour differs from those of the 'normal' society as you and I define it.

    Even just people that have been kidnapped and spend a long time in captivity away from the society and world as we know it at times completely change their world view, morality and behaviour due to the environment they are held in.
    This doesn't mean they are Bad people similarly Damian isn't isn't a bad person. No one who willingly gave their lives twice for others. Who patrols and endangers their life everyday for others is already a good person.

    Damian faces consequences everyday for being a jerk. No one like him that is is the consecequence of jerky before behaviour [don't think they they execute people for being jerks]
    Most people who are jerks and bad at social relations never get past that. Not everyone adapts especially when some of that is a result of past trauma. I don't ask people who have a complex borne out of a yearning to be loved and accepted to just get over it much like I wouldn't ask a person who suffers from Anxiety due to an incident when they were kids to hurry up and change.

    Damian's friendship with Jon wasn't forced though their parents did set them up and Damian did send Maya to spy on Jon. A classic Bruce move which if I learnt anything from Superman [both Rebirth and Bendis] Clark never misses a chance to let Jon in on the strangness and batshit ways of Bruce Wayne.

    Lois goes as far as to call him crazy and Clark alludes to the same but he still trusts him with his life so their friendship makes sense.
    Saying that Jon always ends up doing what Damian wants is a blatant and easy to verify lie.

    Damian didn't have a childhood and his time with Jon gave him a taste of that. It won't give him a childhood but he got to have sleepovers, Play games and form a garage band.

    He got a tatse of what childhood is like for the average kid.

    Wanting to be treated as older doesn't mean he should which is what Superson did right. Damian with all his skills and enhancements is still a kid and kids often don't know whats best. So kudos to Bruce for encouraging the friendship, sending him to school and allowing him to have a hobby as regular as playing in a band.

    Bruce every now and then does make the right decision. Damian is a minor and as such doesn't always know what's best for him. It's why Bruce gets Ollie to watch over him when he's off world [without Damian's knowledgde] and why so many times it's a chore to get him to go do stuff like have a wash. He's a kid.

    Damian is a friends with Jon because Jon earned his respect and because he wants a friend. This has been the case since before the new 52 when he went seeking Colin's friendship, it's why he agreed to go to the movies with Duke, why he took drama lessons from Carrie, why he hangs out at a shelter etc

    Canon established for a longtime now that Damian has always been craving a friend and acceptance from others. He attempts to mask it but it's always been part of his narrative.

    Dick and Damian's dynamic isn't at all like Damian and Jon. That's like saying that Dick and Wally are like Dick and Bruce.

  6. #936
    Astonishing Member CPSparkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    In a way this is why I would kind of like to see if Dick did have a kid or someone who did take up Dick’s time. I mean if Dick did get into a serious relationship I would love to see how Damian reacts. I would love to see the way Dick treated him he winds up doing that once he gets over his fears. Dick has a kid that’s his sister or brother
    Batman Beyond recently revealed Dick's daughter and Damian is around in that world. He even has an arc coming up. It'd be great if we got to see more of Dick's daughter or Damian and Dick in beyond. It would be more emotional if such a story features a younger more insecure Damian of course but I'd still like to know more about that Dick's life.

    I would like to see Damian dealing with his fears of Dick potentially replacing him.

    Seeley did a knock of Damian panicking about being replaced in the prelude though the it wasn't on the level of his break down over Dick's possible baby and it required he be drugged by Ra's.

    I think Seeley was making a statement there since he wrote both stories.
    It took drugs for Damian to get paranoid over his dad and selina possibly having a baby but with Dick he fell apart due to his own fears and how he views Dick.

    Bruce hasn't always been there for Damian and Damian has called him on how he prefers to take care of other kids that aren't him. So he expects Bruce who has replaced every kid he lost [even some who were still alive including Damian] to replace him. That's just normal behaviour for Bruce but Dick, he's different. He's never replaced him and was even reluctant to give him up when Bruce returned.

  7. #937
    Astonishing Member CPSparkles's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=dietrich;4846864]
    Quote Originally Posted by RLV_1996 View Post
    I apologize, I was reading this thread for a long time, but I suddenly felt that some things by Dazai_Osamu needed to be adressed.



    The poster Dazai_Osamu seems to be regurgitating the same opinions that have been going round and repeated constantly by anti damian blogs most notably Thattimdrakeguy.com

    To be fair I follow a lot of Tim blogs and ThatTimDrakeGuy.com isn't reflective of them at all. Most are so toxic or hateful.
    What you said in your other comment is correct. Dc doesn't foster a healthy relationship between the Robin fans and does have them competing against each other.

    It doesn't help that due to lack of progression we've got 3 sidekicks for batman. A character that Dc has been trying to free up for a longtime now. How can you have 3 sidekicks for a guy who hasn't had a constant sidekick at his side since Jason Todd?

    It's the curse of legacy characters. They eat into each others fan bases, split bases and cannibalise each other all due to increased competition.

    But I digress that dude's blog is one of those that spreads misinformation and hate and gives balanced blogs a bad rep

  8. #938
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CPSparkles View Post
    Batman Beyond recently revealed Dick's daughter and Damian is around in that world. He even has an arc coming up. It'd be great if we got to see more of Dick's daughter or Damian and Dick in beyond. It would be more emotional if such a story features a younger more insecure Damian of course but I'd still like to know more about that Dick's life.

    I would like to see Damian dealing with his fears of Dick potentially replacing him.

    Seeley did a knock of Damian panicking about being replaced in the prelude though the it wasn't on the level of his break down over Dick's possible baby and it required he be drugged by Ra's.

    I think Seeley was making a statement there since he wrote both stories.
    It took drugs for Damian to get paranoid over his dad and selina possibly having a baby but with Dick he fell apart due to his own fears and how he views Dick.

    Bruce hasn't always been there for Damian and Damian has called him on how he prefers to take care of other kids that aren't him. So he expects Bruce who has replaced every kid he lost [even some who were still alive including Damian] to replace him. That's just normal behaviour for Bruce but Dick, he's different. He's never replaced him and was even reluctant to give him up when Bruce returned.

    That’s the one thing that Dick has over Batman. He makes time for all of his family. We do know Bruce cares but he does have issues. Dick always has hope and tries to set the good. Who is the stable one that helps everyone. I think in a sense it doesn’t matter who he has the child with. With Babs it’s not has bad I think. With Kori I don’t think he really knows her. In Batman beyond who is the mother.

    dick has never replaced any of the Batfam. And I love to see how Dick does should that

  9. #939
    Astonishing Member CPSparkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    ThatÂ’s the one thing that Dick has over Batman. He makes time for all of his family. We do know Bruce cares but he does have issues. Dick always has hope and tries to set the good. Who is the stable one that helps everyone. I think in a sense it doesnÂ’t matter who he has the child with. With Babs itÂ’s not has bad I think. With Kori I donÂ’t think he really knows her. In Batman beyond who is the mother.

    dick has never replaced any of the Batfam. And I love to see how Dick does should that
    [in before anyone goes but.....] I mean Dick did give Robin to Tim which technically is replacing though it's completely different from what we see Bruce do

    Tim didn't need Robin nor did he meet the requirements of potential candidate for Robin. not to mention that Dick recognised his growth and evolution. It was time for Tim to move on.

    Robin was a mantle created to give meaning and direction to young boys whose's lives were in danger of spiralling down a dark path. Young boys who had no one else and nothing else. That wasn't Tim and never was so to me Dick giving it to Damian was more of telling someone to take their feet off a couch so someone who needs a seat can sit down.


    Yep Dick is a the stable better adjusted one in the family much to his detriment. It's why he had to be grounded for City of Bane leading to the hell that we currently find ourselves in with Ric.

    Dick is a young man who has his life infront of him as much as i love to see him dealing with surrogate dad issues with bruce's kid my one big problem with it is that it again is something that doesn't help separate Dick from Batman's story.

    Dick's connection to the Batfamily is both a pro and a con.

    It's the reason why even though I'd love a Nightwing and Robin book and I'd love Dick to have a sidekick I don't want it to be Damian.

    I think Babs is most likely the mum.

    Grant Morrison once said that Dick Grayson is the best thing Bruce ever did.

    I think he means that the fact that Bruce managed to take a once truamatised kid and raise him up to be a hero/man who is well adjusted unlike himself is a testament to the positive change/result of Batman/Bruce's efforts [also the Graysons laid a great foundation before they passed on]
    Last edited by CPSparkles; 02-22-2020 at 08:04 PM.

  10. #940
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    True. One thing that might help is one what should Dick do for a living? Another thing is maybe He should be the last option for the Bats. I feel with his skill and knowledge he should be when things get so crazy they need Dick. LIke he shouldn't appear in every single thing only special events.

    Anyway, Damian trying to be good at really interesting. Not only that but him looking at the Robin role is interesting. That he feels is he the right fit.

  11. #941
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    True. One thing that might help is one what should Dick do for a living? Another thing is maybe He should be the last option for the Bats. I feel with his skill and knowledge he should be when things get so crazy they need Dick. LIke he shouldn't appear in every single thing only special events.

    Anyway, Damian trying to be good at really interesting. Not only that but him looking at the Robin role is interesting. That he feels is he the right fit.

  12. #942
    Astonishing Member CPSparkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    True. One thing that might help is one what should Dick do for a living? Another thing is maybe He should be the last option for the Bats. I feel with his skill and knowledge he should be when things get so crazy they need Dick. LIke he shouldn't appear in every single thing only special events.

    Anyway, Damian trying to be good at really interesting. Not only that but him looking at the Robin role is interesting. That he feels is he the right fit.
    I liked Dick as a spy or a private eye. He needs a job that's flexible and where he makes his hours and manages his own workload.
    Makes it easier to juggle with his hero activities.

    While I like the idea of Dick not being go to guy for Bruce there's not any other person in the family that is experienced enough, reliable enough and who command enough respect to the level that they can get every member of the family to follow without complaints.

    Kate and Babs come to mind but I haven't seen evidence to support this while in Dick's case we have many. Even in Robin war Jason and Tim knew well to call in Dick since they knew that he was the only one that Damian would obey. Duke as we saw had nothing but the greatest respect for Dick. Same with Steph and cass who all followed when he was Batman.

    There is no one else sadly. Alfred's antics in the new 52 instantly eliminates him plus he's too old

  13. #943
    Astonishing Member CPSparkles's Avatar
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    [Since we've been talking about them]

    I love these guys





    https://dark-winged.tumblr.com


    Last edited by CPSparkles; 02-22-2020 at 11:44 PM.

  14. #944

  15. #945
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    I love these two. It really makes me wonder how Damian will see Dick in the future. In a sense he will hold respect for him but will it be a different kind of respect than he has with his father. This also makes me wonder how is his other relationships with the others? Or even the JL

    To be honest I often thought Jason would have been the one Damian bonded with more
    Last edited by AmiMizuno; 02-22-2020 at 11:45 PM.

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