Damian Wayne: Robin Appreciation 2020

[Fergus]

I think I shouldn't, but I am so optimistic.
Damian said the verb on future in "I will start showing what justice is" = Damian didn't killed BloodBrother because, will not follow a evil path!
Dick is coming back = it will make Damian feel like he has someone that care about him in Gotham!
Barbara was angry because Bruce did not take care of Damian = so Bruce is wrong and will apolagize and everything will become better!
Batman is with a happier outfit = so he will become more warm with everybody!
Tim wered Drake outfit ONE time = he don't want to be Robin anymore and Damian will keep the R!
Jon will come for ask about Damian in volume #46 4+6 is 10, 10 is a cabalistic number = everybody will became friends!

I just can't control my optimins this days X''''D.
I don't think anymore the story is going to a way that Damian is tottaly wrong and nobody will defend him. I think DC will show he made many mistakes but he is not a lost cause that no one wants near. There is many charcters that care about him now, Damian looks so scared of rejection that he do things that will make everybody hate him, so he has a motivation for run away, but if the others show they just want Damian to be happy and will help because they like him, Damian can try belive in his place in Gotham.

Yeah, too much optimistic.

You are being Optimistic but there are some thing's that you wish for which will happen or at the very least come close to happening.

Bruce and Damian will eventually in a short time
Dick and Damian will have their reunion not counting the one we had in Batman Beyond.
Damian will be shown as having made a mistake which he has done. There will be no defence because there is no defence for what he did.

Tomasi will do a Tomasi if he writes the issue where they have it out.

Bruce will admit fault because with Damian regardless of writer Bruce is always never 100% comes out of it smelling of roses.

I don't know about Jon reappearing in the TT after his current visit but the SuperSons will continue to be a thing in one form or another.

Tim won't go back to Drake.
He will share the Robin mantle with Damian only he will be a Jarro type of Robin. Robin in name only who doesn't show up as a member of the Batfamily on outside media.

[Rebeca Armus]

I think I've posted this before, but on my dictionary, villain is the one who intentionally and enjoyed hurting innocent people. TT Damian, as wicked as he is, he never wants to hurt innocent people. Instead, his pushing force is because he doesn't want to see innocent people hurting by villain's acts. It shows on restaurant scene, even though it's random people and we barely care for them, they're still innocent civilian whom Damian cares on that story. Brother Blood case is also for the sake of civilian lives, if Damian really killed him. But I understand if your definition of villains is different from mine, after all I think DC shares the same opinion as you regarding Damian's brutal act. And if DC want to treat Damian as villain (as implied on Tec' solicitation) because of his acts, then I can't do anything besides accept it.

For me Damian is still a hero if he is compared with the other heroes of DC. If Batman can be a hero putting bad guys in prisions that never work, broke characters necks and let them for die and saying for Bane "I will let you live because this is WORST than kill you", not what Damian did is worst than what his father done.
Damian could be a vilain if he is compareted to Nightwing, or a anti-hero compareted with Red Hood, but if Batman is a reference of hero I think he can't?
* I remembered that you post this before, I don't remember if I've wrote I agree, but re-think "villain is the one who intentionally and enjoyed hurting innocent people", there is many villains that don't enjoy hurting people but do this beliving is the right/only way for make the world better, like Magnus, Erik Killmonger (of Black Panter).
I think the idea of "innocent" are different depending on the context of a character. " anyone of the elite is innocent", "anyone who stoled and supported stoling Africa is innocent" "anyone who wasn't a Mutant is innocent". And that is a refflect of things that exis in real world. I will note name names, but you guys get what happened in WW1 WW2, Mexico, Russia, ditatures. I will stop here.

[Morgoth]

Damian and Dick will reunite in 'Tec, I think.
If DCConnect didn't lie, Mirror will hunt down entire Batfamily, while everyone in the city hates them because of the Joker War. Dick will play a role in this storyline for sure. Maybe Damian will even save him and everyone.

[Rebeca Armus]

I have no problem with his suit, but I have plenty problems with his codename. Drake is a good superhero name for anyone who doesn't have Drake as his civilian surname, and want to hide his civilian identity. I refused to accept that Tim is dumb enough to risk himself like that. Having your surname as your heroic identity is not always bad, look at Dr. Strange. But if Tim want to use Drake as his heroic identity, he has to give up on his secret civilian identity, just like Dr.Strange.

"I refused to accept that Tim is dumb enough to risk himself like that." fheafweiuarhieawhjfdsjnsdfçoijsofah

I still think would be funny, but thinking in a more serious story he really can't be Drake. Tim don't know choose names, following his logic the next would be mc Donalds or Tim.

https://www.instagram.com/p/B5wEtLeFsWV/

[Rebeca Armus]

No, I liked it. But I think DC and Bendis noticed that it was largely not taken well and that they have decided that since this character can't be anything else than Robin without stealing huge chunks of Batman's mythos for himself (Red Robin after BATMAN R.I.P. basically) they have given up on moving him to his own identity and he'll just become Robin again full time.

Of coruse, my problem with Tim is that he aggravated all the rot and wrong choices for the Batman mythos ever since he was created, but that's another story.

Regarding Damian seeking his own destiny, I think it's easy to differentiate him from Jason. Red Hood deal with the here and now, he doesn't really want to change the system. He's a brutal vigilante, but at heart he doesn't seem to see a bigger picture. He just tries to be the best he can be and that's what makes him a really great character (and why I'm sadly afraid of seeing Lobdell go, in spite of his horrible actions and behavior... I don't want to see Jason devolve into Morrtison's insane psycho-killer ever again).

Damian can -should?- be the opportunity to make a Ra's al Ghul/Poison Ivy character for the current world : that is someone who sees the destruction Western Civilization and Capitalism are unleashing on the world, the ravages it does to everyone but the wealthiest among us, and decides to change it, no matter the cost. Not because he wants to cleanse the world of humans to return it to a pristine state like his grand-father. But because he believes that in spite of the suffering it'll cause, it'll be extremely beneficial to everyone in the long run.

"Of coruse, my problem with Tim is that he aggravated all the rot and wrong choices for the Batman mythos ever since he was created, but that's another story." what do you mean?

"that is someone who sees the destruction Western Civilization and Capitalism are unleashing on the world" DC will not make a people who thinks like this a hero... even more in Batfamily, Damian would literally be the most opposit of Waynes Corporation possible... A character of this thinks or is make like a bored person, or a crazy villain like Poison...

[Rebeca Armus]

Damian's value lies in the fact that he is more than generic Robin. Writers can do more with him and that is what they are doing.

On the subject of Damian moving out of Bruce's Shadow, He's not about nor should he. He is Bruce's kid.

On the subject of Robin. Damian is Robin. Sure he's about to walk away and we've seen Drake in a Robin costume but we all know that Damian is coming back not only that I don't even see WB pausing for as a to consider changing who the official Robin is.

Damian can't move on from Robin just yet since he is 13. He can't become an independent hero, a serious antagonist or even Dick sidekick because he is 13. A minor and Bruce's supporting character.

He is the Son of Batman not The Gray Son's Son.

Damian Wayne appreciation <3 <3 <3

I just don't agree he can't be Dick's sidekick, they was a good dinamic duo, and Dick said he was thinking about bring Damian when he moved. Nothing in comics is permanent, they could be together for some time at Bruce or Damian rethinking about reconnect, or Dick see he is not ready for this, or Damian decid he wants to try be part of a team again.
I will be killed by this, buuuuutttt, I really like Ric plot, The world come upsidedown, is very nice see he coming back and all the tramas, the personality change was well write, make sense... AND I know this will not keep forever, I also liked how Jason became so crazy for "battle for the cowl", maid the story exciting because the intense personality and idea of a tottaly diferent Batman. (and I liked the exagereted outfit)

[dietrich]

"Of coruse, my problem with Tim is that he aggravated all the rot and wrong choices for the Batman mythos ever since he was created, but that's another story." what do you mean?

I think he means a few thing's which all started when Tim was created

- the whole Batman needs Robin which not only is a lie but undermines the Batman
- The end of the Dynamic Duo. Tim was created to distance Batman from Robin which was why Robin had a solo series and Tim didn't show up a lot in the batman titles.
- Batjerk became a thing in the 90's. Batman became a douche bag/jerk which is when the phrase was coined.

Thew 90's was a trash period for comics.

[Rebeca Armus]

I think he means a few thing's which all started when Tim was created

- the whole Batman needs Robin which not only is a lie but undermines the Batman
- The end of the Dynamic Duo. Tim was created to distance Batman from Robin which was why Robin had a solo series and Tim didn't show up a lot in the batman titles.
- Batjerk became a thing in the 90's. Batman became a douche bag/jerk which is when the phrase was coined.

Thew 90's was a trash period for comics.

- I undertand why many peoples don't like "Batman needs a Robin" this is part of the conflict of "Batman works alone". Because of this I like different approach in different medias, like how Injustice is so dark but DC super hero girls is so full of joy. If you have 1 world and each writer get a different approach the story start to contradict itself.
- I didn't get the second one. Tim was a new Robin made for distance from Batman? What was the logistic? And why it's different of Dick that became a TT while was Robin?
Don't know about comics, but hero movies was very weird in 90's too.

*like in Harley tv show, Damian is away of his version of comics, but match so much with the show universe.

[dietrich]

- I undertand why many peoples don't like "Batman needs a Robin" this is part of the conflict of "Batman works alone". Because of this I like different approach in different medias, like how Injustice is so dark but DC super hero girls is so full of joy. If you have 1 world and each writer get a different approach the story start to contradict itself.
- I didn't get the second one. Tim was a new Robin made for distance from Batman? What was the logistic? And why it's different of Dick that became a TT while was Robin?
Don't know about comics, but hero movies was very weird in 90's too.

*like in Harley tv show, Damian is away of his version of comics, but match so much with the show universe.

The 1st one isn't about Batman working alone. Batman need's Robin means that without Robin around Batman would go too far and likely kill. It means that Batman is so weak he is unable to stop himself from crossing the line.

The second one - DC doesn't want Robin in Batman. They want Batman comics free of young sidekick for whatever reason but Tim was created to be independent.

Dick still; later appeared in Batman books but with the Robin title the writers didn't to use tim or write him with Batman except during crossovers.

[Digifiend]

Yeah, Tim was meant to be a more modern Robin, an independent hero instead of just Batman's sidekick. More like Spider-Man than Dick Grayson or Wally West or Roy Harper when they started out. Peter Parker was independent from the start, and that was the idea for Tim when he got his own title. Remember, initially, Azrael was Batman, and Tim was locked out of the Batcave!

[Rebeca Armus]

I always thought the "Batman needs a Robin" mean for a balance for Bruce feelings, like don't let him go so into the darks because Robin would be like a light or a point of optimism when Bruce is too hopeless, but if the idea is more about prevents Batman to kill the phrase became forced.
If DC wants Batman being solo why did they create Tim as a Robin?

[Rebeca Armus]

Yeah, Tim was meant to be a more modern Robin, an independent hero instead of just Batman's sidekick. More like Spider-Man than Dick Grayson or Wally West or Roy Harper when they started out. Peter Parker was independent from the start, and that was the idea for Tim when he got his own title. Remember, initially, Azrael was Batman, and Tim was locked out of the Batcave!

But this is the weird part, because if he should be more like Peter, Tim should debut as a independent hero and work with Batman later. Peter start like Spiderman and after became close of other heroes, not the inverse.
Thinking about a independent character too make more sense now that he was never Robin, because he was not like the others sidekicks, he got a name from a hero he liked, not replace a sidekick uniform.
What should I read for know Tim better? Something short, with a end story, like Robin Son of Batman.

"Remember, initially, Azrael was Batman, and Tim was locked out of the Batcave!" I have zero idea of what is this about
>-<

[TheCape]

But this is the weird part, because if he should be more like Peter, Tim should debut as a independent hero and work with Batman later. Peter start like Spiderman and after became close of other heroes, not the inverse.
Thinking about a independent character too make more sense now that he was never Robin, because he was not like the others sidekicks, he got a name from a hero he liked, not replace a sidekick uniform.
What should I read for know Tim better? Something short, with a end story, like Robin Son of Batman.

"Remember, initially, Azrael was Batman, and Tim was locked out of the Batcave!" I have zero idea of what is this about
>-<

Variations of that kind of archetype exist. You can read his minis, they made 3 before he got his solo. They were written by Chuck Dixon.

As for the Azrael thing, back in 93 when Knightfall happened and Azrael became Batman he forbid Robin to enter in the batcave and the first arc of his solo is him dealing with that more or less.

[dietrich]

But this is the weird part, because if he should be more like Peter, Tim should debut as a independent hero and work with Batman later. Peter start like Spiderman and after became close of other heroes, not the inverse.
Thinking about a independent character too make more sense now that he was never Robin, because he was not like the others sidekicks, he got a name from a hero he liked, not replace a sidekick uniform.
What should I read for know Tim better? Something short, with a end story, like Robin Son of Batman.

"Remember, initially, Azrael was Batman, and Tim was locked out of the Batcave!" I have zero idea of what is this about
>-<

Tim's story starts in Batman 440 I think [also read new TT #60, #61] then you need the Robin solo's and his mini's

[Konja7]

But this is the weird part, because if he should be more like Peter, Tim should debut as a independent hero and work with Batman later. Peter start like Spiderman and after became close of other heroes, not the inverse.
Thinking about a independent character too make more sense now that he was never Robin, because he was not like the others sidekicks, he got a name from a hero he liked, not replace a sidekick uniform.
What should I read for know Tim better? Something short, with a end story, like Robin Son of Batman.

"Remember, initially, Azrael was Batman, and Tim was locked out of the Batcave!" I have zero idea of what is this about
>-<

DC wants a Robin again (because it is a popular brand), but they also want to have Batman as a "solitary" hero. So, Robin should be more independent to get it.

In other words, DC want their cake and eat it too


Speaking of independent identity, when Chuck Dixon worked in Robin solo, he was pitching an idea where Tim becomes Blue Beetle (and Stephanie as Batgirl), but DC always opposed.