Damian Wayne: Robin Appreciation 2020

[ChangingStation]

That's just it though, we don't see them work together enough in the main books. They work together in other books like Deathstroke, and occasionally in events like City of Bane, but mostly Damian has been confined to Teen Titans and Barman to his own books with any interactions being solos or in groups mostly.

That's been a problem for most of the Batfamily.

[Rebeca Armus]

I agree one of the many charismas of Batman and Robin with Bruce and Damian is that don't working well, this is the writer points. But readers killed Jason because of this, so...
I saw the first Jason origin as Robin was parents being assassinate in the circle they all work together, how lazy could this be? I don't like Tim too much, but what would be the sense if he was a copy of Dick or Jason? If you change a character, they need to be different. Because this Bat-Bros (or bat-siblins) are so loved, this looks more like a family than having 4 Dicks and 4 Tims how looks like some peoples want.
I like the idea of Helena in main timeline, it's knew, we can't know what will happen just like Damian.
I don't like re-makes...

[Jackalope89]

I agree one of the many charismas of Batman and Robin with Bruce and Damian is that don't working well, this is the writer points. But readers killed Jason because of this, so...
I saw the first Jason origin as Robin was parents being assassinate in the circle they all work together, how lazy could this be? I don't like Tim too much, but what would be the sense if he was a copy of Dick or Jason? If you change a character, they need to be different. Because this Bat-Bros (or bat-siblins) are so loved, this looks more like a family than having 4 Dicks and 4 Tims how looks like some peoples want.
I like the idea of Helena in main timeline, it's knew, we can't know what will happen just like Damian.
I don't like re-makes...

That's why most people like Jason's second origin far better. Its unique, it gives light to part of Gotham, and shows that Jason has the balls to steal the wheels from the Batmobile as a 12 year old when most grown men are too afraid to mention him half the time.

[Ansa]

This is the Damian appreciation thread but that doesn't mean that views/opinions are censored. Damian fans are allowed to share their thoughts on what's going on with him. Good or Bad. Popular or unpopular.

Fans should never be made to feel unwelcome even if you don't share their views. This shouldn't be an echo chamber and we are not here to police comments [so long as they are not just people coming in insulting the character]

You don't have to know what they enjoy in a book or an arc but you do have to respect that those are their feelings.
How arrogant to claim a fan isn't interested in a character when you don't know them.

Damian and his fans get enough of a hard time without us fighting amongst ourselves.

I was simply confused why they came to the Damian Wayne appreciation thread when they didn't seem interested in him. I don't see how it's my fault they got pissy. I don't have much patience for melodramatic people.
So if they want to leave because of something like this they can leave.
I didn't insult or bully them.
So don't tell me how to act.

[Ansa]

What about the Wayne blood?
What about Batman conditioning and manipulation?
Batman is violent and nurtures his kids to accept and use violence as a positive.

The Al Ghul Blood! because we know that all kids of bad guys end up bad. Like they are somehow tainted.

Damian and Bruce will be at odds for a short while then it'll be back to them being fine.

The thing that makes Damian different and unique is that he isn't like the other Robins. That is his appeal. He never has been. That potential for angst and conflict is what makes him different from the two other options that were rejected when he died.

It's what gives him more story potential and why writers like to use him. You can do the regular Dynamic duo with him and you can explore darker unconventional stories thanks to his baggage

Teen Titans is already positioning Bruce as the concerned father and don't talk about the long neglect that has been going on. So I don't expect them to be fair here.
Damian's legitimate problems with Bruce's methods will probably be brushed off with Damian being depicted as evil. He will be compared to Ra's al Ghul and with that all discussion about who is wrong and who is right in this would be over.
DC always had the tendency to blame all of Damian's bad traits on the al Ghuls and attribute everything good about him to Bruce.

[Blue22]

And I really hope they don't go that route where Damian is apparently just always destined to be this way because of his mother's side. Not when his current little rebellious streak is Bruce's fault. Sure he's trying now that Damian might have finally gone off the deep end, but where was he to prevent all this before it happened? Oh right. Losing his mind over a cat.

If they're gonna go through with this, they need to not frame it like Bruce is completely blameless.

[Morgoth]

Just for reference - Tomasi seemed to say that he was supposed to leave 'Tec after the Joker War, then suddenly for some reason they decided to leave him, in January he switches to "something else".
It seems like Damian's return is the reason why he stayed, this arc will probably be going until January. And given that the current arch is written by a completely different editorial group, and other people are doing it in 'Tec, I still make the assumption that Tomasi was asked to somehow change what is happening with Damian in the other direction. Otherwise, it somehow doesn't make much sense in all of this, everyone knows that he has a different look at the character, if DC really needed a villain or Punisher-type character, they would have called someone like Priest for this, that would be more logical.

[The tall man]

It's storylines like this that makes me wish DC had pulled the trigger in Priest's Deathstroke v Batman and decided that Damian wasn't Bruce's son after all. It's clearly not a good relationship for either one and just makes them look bad, particularly Bruce. He is a character unlike Clark who cearly wasn't meant to be a father, it's not a slight against him just that some people are not cut out to be a parent. The man has his mission, its been the one driving and most important thing in his life, the core aspect of his character. Why did anyone think it was a good idea to saddle him with a young kid and expect he would change into some doting father? It's not his character's makeup and it would change what makes him Batman. But Damian fans don't want that, they like his connections to the bat mythos, the "Son of Batman" moniker all the while railing at Bruce for his treatment or lack thereof of Damian. Batman is the foundation and central point of the bat franchise, it's his mythos; you cannot expect his whole character to change for the sake of one character. It's not Bruce who has to change, it's Damian. This is why I say DC should have said actually no Bruce is not the father. Maybe make it Slade or some other person but Damian fans fear that would render Damian irrelevant or consigned to limbo if he is removed from the family. But as it stands he is Bruce's son so the issue going forward is how will that relationship evolve? I for one don't see Bruce becoming some doting, little league coaching dad. He still has his mission and Damian will have to fit into that dynamic as best he can. And Damian fans will have to accept that or just continue to post in frustration at Bruce's behavior, all the while knowing he will not and cannot change. To do so would not be true to his character, he is who he is. Some like me like and accept that, others Damian fans including does not.

[Jackalope89]

It's storylines like this that makes me wish DC had pulled the trigger in Priest's Deathstroke v Batman and decided that Damian wasn't Bruce's son after all. It's clearly not a good relationship for either one and just makes them look bad, particularly Bruce. He is a character unlike Clark who cearly wasn't meant to be a father, it's not a slight against him just that some people are not cut out to be a parent. The man has his mission, its been the one driving and most important thing in his life, the core aspect of his character. Why did anyone think it was a good idea to saddle him with a young kid and expect he would change into some doting father? It's not his character's makeup and it would change what makes him Batman. But Damian fans don't want that, they like his connections to the bat mythos, the "Son of Batman" moniker all the while railing at Bruce for his treatment or lack thereof of Damian. Batman is the foundation and central point of the bat franchise, it's his mythos; you cannot expect his whole character to change for the sake of one character. It's not Bruce who has to change, it's Damian. This is why I say DC should have said actually no Bruce is not the father. Maybe make it Slade or some other person but Damian fans fear that would render Damian irrelevant or consigned to limbo if he is removed from the family. But as it stands he is Bruce's son so the issue going forward is how will that relationship evolve? I for one don't see Bruce becoming some doting, little league coaching dad. He still has his mission and Damian will have to fit into that dynamic as best he can. And Damian fans will have to accept that or just continue to post in frustration at Bruce's behavior, all the while knowing he will not and cannot change. To do so would not be true to his character, he is who he is. Some like me like and accept that, others Damian fans including does not.

Uh, Damian being Slade Wilson's son isn't better by any means.

That aside, the main issue is that once upon a time, Bruce was a good father to both Dick and Jason. Then they decided to keep making Bruce darker, and well, here we are.

[ChangingStation]

Uh, Damian being Slade Wilson's son isn't better by any means.

That aside, the main issue is that once upon a time, Bruce was a good father to both Dick and Jason. Then they decided to keep making Bruce darker, and well, here we are.

To be fair, he started out good with Tim, but it soon went downhill.

[Rebeca Armus]

It's storylines like this that makes me wish DC had pulled the trigger in Priest's Deathstroke v Batman and decided that Damian wasn't Bruce's son after all. It's clearly not a good relationship for either one and just makes them look bad, particularly Bruce. He is a character unlike Clark who cearly wasn't meant to be a father, it's not a slight against him just that some people are not cut out to be a parent. The man has his mission, its been the one driving and most important thing in his life, the core aspect of his character. Why did anyone think it was a good idea to saddle him with a young kid and expect he would change into some doting father? It's not his character's makeup and it would change what makes him Batman. But Damian fans don't want that, they like his connections to the bat mythos, the "Son of Batman" moniker all the while railing at Bruce for his treatment or lack thereof of Damian. Batman is the foundation and central point of the bat franchise, it's his mythos; you cannot expect his whole character to change for the sake of one character. It's not Bruce who has to change, it's Damian. This is why I say DC should have said actually no Bruce is not the father. Maybe make it Slade or some other person but Damian fans fear that would render Damian irrelevant or consigned to limbo if he is removed from the family. But as it stands he is Bruce's son so the issue going forward is how will that relationship evolve? I for one don't see Bruce becoming some doting, little league coaching dad. He still has his mission and Damian will have to fit into that dynamic as best he can. And Damian fans will have to accept that or just continue to post in frustration at Bruce's behavior, all the while knowing he will not and cannot change. To do so would not be true to his character, he is who he is. Some like me like and accept that, others Damian fans including does not.

I just like to see characters I like being happy, I don't think Damian can feel good about himself with how the story is going.
For me Bruce don't need to became a better father, since Damian find a way he can be ok with. Dick got way from Batman, became himself, he do things how he believe, keept the family circle bond, found a job he wanted and change by him and stoped to argue with Bruce like when he was 18; Jason have duo that really likes and like him back, he is became less crazy and forgiving Bruce and Tim, like, not 100% but progressing; Tim can't find himself because he still just want to be what Batman wants, and since he is pretty good in this, he don't know what he wants, he would do whatever Bruce wants and feel like he decided it.

I think Damian would be sadder being Deathstroke Son, Deathstroke is a terrible father too. Also the progresses of the 4 are linked by age. Damian and Batman will keep this dinamic while Damian needs his father love and approval, when he feel better about himself without this he will not feel so awful for don't be what he father wants.
SOOOOO I can accept Bruce don't being a gooood father, but this need to have limits, no good father is ok, terrible father and terrible hero is too much. Limits, limits. so every time Bruce cross this limit with any of the Robins I will always be "oohhh, nooo, my babies, Bruce is being mean again, hate him, why he can't be better T^T ?!"

Batfamily is huge now too, this Batman "I work alone" don't work anymore, so the character need to have a change being more sociable, he was before before before, ins't? He was cutter with Dick and Barbara, isn't? Looks like the more batfamily increase more the dc wants to make him alone.

I remember a comic he lets Dick alone in a part of batcave Dick don't know, and Dick says "here has no food" and Bruce said "There is RATS here, don't?" and go way. Noooooo why Bruce?? My baaabbyyyy!!! Dick wans't 18 yeat, a hero should not do this kind of things even more with his adooorable sidekick *Alfred helped Dick in the night.
80% of you said is rigth about we fan wanting Bruce changes XD just my opinion.

If Damian was Deathstroke's son how would you think the storie would continue?

oh! In more than one place I read of the idea Damian being Jason Todd's Son XD I would buy a parallelal world comic with this plot just for see what would happen, God, would be son funny.

[Rebeca Armus]

[TheCape]

To be fair, he started out good with Tim, but it soon went downhill.

Yeah, after Zero Hour Bruce decided that he needed to scare his allies as much as his enemies and from that point on BatJerk was born.

[Yennefer]

A general post for what I read since page 180:

The main and original batman mythos includes Bruce being a father as a main part of his character. He wasn't "The Batman" but rather "Batman" in the dynamic duo. So the son was pretty important. Also, Bruce ADOPTED his first son... Meaning that it was something HE wanted and decided from the one side... And from the other, this made clear that Batman's first writers wanted him a father.
The reason why this changed over the years is because DC believed that fans were bored of this family side of him and thus, as many said as well, made him darker. The problem is that the time they decided that, batfamily already had many members... So Bruce's permanent dark side is ill-timed and DC's fault.

As far as Damian is concerned.... DC should have either killed him off when he was first introduced OR keep him and work his character and his relationships in the right way.
So, seeing how his relationship with Bruce has gone, from their meeting to his death and up until today, is frustrating. It is not the fans not understanding the mythos and the main character, it is DC messing it up over and over again in a way that simply doesn't make sense to create drama.
To put an example... Is it logical to have a child back from death, your only biological child at that, which -you know- that has suffered in the hands of his prior family and neglect it at 13? No.
Is it logical for any parent to neglect their child in general? No.
It is all choices and consequences...
DC decided that Damian was to be in this word. So they had to make him work. All this is just a half-completed job. And this is for any of the batkids. If they don't want Batman a father, because it doesn't suit his character and his nature is not that, then they should wipe out all of his children from the DCU.

Also... I believe Damian's main main main problem is that he is Bruce's biological son. The natural continuation. And a character with a huge potential. If he was developed appropriately, as many of you said, he would surpass DC's main character.

And OUR main problem is that Batman is a story that has been around for 80 years and more to come. Stories start to end at some point and when they don't, they become problematic. Writers experiment, shock, repeat, destroy and create things all the time to draw attention to a 80yo character. It is natural to feel frustrated when you read it for decades... Even I feel frustrated and I am not in the comic world for more than 2 years...Anyways.

Also, miss @Rebecca Armus I ADORE your Damian Wayne art! It's the cutest Damian so far and you often hit at the center with your themes!! (The leaf and Talia etc).

Also, I am back. Hi!

[AmiMizuno]

The thing is in a sense. Dick is a better father than Bruce is. In other words, it seems like a repeat. Damian is like the adopted son of Dick.