Damian Wayne: Robin Appreciation 2020

[Jackalope89]

Talia also was also a willing part of the Ra's Plan.
Talia loved Bruce
Talia has aided Bruce in his fight
Talia bombed BludHaven
Talia was also a loving mother who loved and cared for her son. She fought Ra's to keep him safe.
Talia was a victim and an abuser.
Talia was abused, brain washed and weaponized by her father
Talia abused, brain washed and weaponized her son
Talia helped save the World

All the above is true and you are correct that she wanted to be free of the league and Ra's.

Writers have been inconsistent in how they use Talia however I prefer how Morrison used her. I think he by counting the ties he did the character a favour and increased the chances of her being used.

To add to that; Talia also brought Jason back (one way or the other), and not only helped to train him, but introduced him to the All-Caste.

[Ansa]

Talia also was also a willing part of the Ra's Plan.
Talia loved Bruce
Talia has aided Bruce in his fight
Talia bombed BludHaven
Talia was also a loving mother who loved and cared for her son. She fought Ra's to keep him safe.
Talia was a victim and an abuser.
Talia was abused, brain washed and weaponized by her father
Talia abused, brain washed and weaponized her son
Talia helped save the World

All the above is true and you are correct that she wanted to be free of the league and Ra's.

Writers have been inconsistent in how they use Talia however I prefer how Morrison used her. I think he by counting the ties he did the character a favour and increased the chances of her being used.

The chances of her to be used as a worse copy of Ra's, who has also lost a lot of the appeal he used to have. Miss me with that.

[Ansa]

I like Morrison’s Talia. She was a character corrupted and dissilusioned by rejection. I don’t even hate what Talia became after. There is good and bad, but she carries her own presence now. Shes not just the the daughter or the mother.

She became a maniac because a man rejected her, what an empowering story. Feminist icon. Talia was on her own path.
Now she's literally just the psycho mother of Damian.

[Ansa]

Talia has been getting more use since Rebirth which is good however the racism and sexism isn't anything to do her being an outright bad guy or Morrison. It's to do with those writers are sexist and racist. Simple


+ King using Talia to prop Selina was shitty but WW was the real victim. Talia and Selina are at least peers but to use a feminist icon to prop a lower level character that you then later bring back her past as a sex worker is unreal.

The Wonder Woman thing makes the Talia story not less shitty. That's not even an argument. And I do think that Morrison making Batman's only major poc love interest into an outright villain helped encouraging the racist portrayals we've got since then.
It's sad to see that Talia's portrayal was less offensive back in the day then it is now.

[Godlike13]

She became a maniac because a man rejected her, what an empowering story. Feminist icon. Talia was on her own path.
Now she's literally just the psycho mother of Damian.

It wasn’t suppose to be an empowering story or make her a icon of any sort. Kind of missing the point there.

[Light of Justice]

I always love seeing some positive interaction between Damian and Tim

"You're only listening to the insults and not what I'm saying with them"
Well at least he knows he's a tsundere XD

Is it already available on internet?
And Dami, I love you but you really need to learn how to compliment person properly. I mean, if you throw gold covered with **** on someone's head, you can't expect them to find completely grateful for the gold and not feel angry because you make them hurt and dirty. But yeah, now he already develop so much and truthfully compliment Tim, I'm proud of him.

[Jackalope89]

Is it already available on internet?
And Dami, I love you but you really need to learn how to compliment person properly. I mean, if you throw gold covered with **** on someone's head, you can't expect them to find completely grateful for the gold and not feel angry because you make them hurt and dirty. But yeah, now he already develop so much and truthfully compliment Tim, I'm proud of him.

It is. And an overall good read.

[Light of Justice]

She became a maniac because a man rejected her, what an empowering story. Feminist icon. Talia was on her own path.
Now she's literally just the psycho mother of Damian.

My feeling about Talia is... complicated. As you know, I am new fan of DC and I only follow Batfam stories (and Superman a little) so I have no idea how is Talia's character back then. But I kinda picture her on some point similiar to Damian. I mean, Dami is heir of LoA, but many people forget that means Talia is the princess of LoA. I bet on her childhood she was treated similiar as Damian, same harsh training, same high expectation, same thought that she is the best of the best in this world. Person like that will not handle rejection with good heart, especially when the one who reject them is their own son, whom they nurture since birth. Don't forget, Damian did not choose Bruce over Talia, he chose DICK over Talia. To let go of your son for someone whom you once loved it's different than to let go of your son for a silly circus boy (at leat I think that how she feel about Dick). How do you feel when your own son reject you and choose a man younger than you, much less experienced than you? We know how Damian reacted on rejection, how angry he is, how explosive he is. Talia I think will act the same, if not worse.

But I hate her (or interpretation of her character) on Deathstroke arc. I just feel, what was she doing? The arc feel pointless, I don't even know what she wanted to gain on that arc? For Deathstroke to undo his sterilization and **** her? What the hell?
If I must choose Talia or Selina, I will choose Talia. I don't really fond of Selina, when I still watched anime, I really hate characters who end their sentence with 'meow'. I think that's really annoying. But I really hate Selina when she (unintentionally) distracted Bruce on beach when Dami tied on chair and watched Alfred's killing process. And you wanna make me believe that Talia, the Daughter of Demon Talia, with harsh training since childhood and maybe by Ra's himself, lost to a thieving cat who maybe never killed someone before? I hope Talia just tested her and did not seriously fight her.

[Light of Justice]

It is. And an overall good read.

Wow.. Can you give me the link? I can't find it by my own :P

[AmiMizuno]

Talia does have a lot to answer. She had no reason to rape Bruce. But she is use to getting the results she wants

[Blue22]

I prefer they not even try to justify that particular decision and just keep on pretending it only happened in Morrison's head. Bruce and Talia were very much in love when Damian was conceived. There was no reason to write Talia date raping him. If there's one thing Bruce is always down for, it's irresponsible sex. Just ask Selina and the multiple rooftops they've done it on.

[dietrich]

Talia does have a lot to answer. She had no reason to rape Bruce. But she is use to getting the results she wants

Well she didn't rape bruce.

[dietrich]

My feeling about Talia is... complicated. As you know, I am new fan of DC and I only follow Batfam stories (and Superman a little) so I have no idea how is Talia's character back then. But I kinda picture her on some point similiar to Damian. I mean, Dami is heir of LoA, but many people forget that means Talia is the princess of LoA. I bet on her childhood she was treated similiar as Damian, same harsh training, same high expectation, same thought that she is the best of the best in this world. Person like that will not handle rejection with good heart, especially when the one who reject them is their own son, whom they nurture since birth. Don't forget, Damian did not choose Bruce over Talia, he chose DICK over Talia. To let go of your son for someone whom you once loved it's different than to let go of your son for a silly circus boy (at leat I think that how she feel about Dick). How do you feel when your own son reject you and choose a man younger than you, much less experienced than you? We know how Damian reacted on rejection, how angry he is, how explosive he is. Talia I think will act the same, if not worse.

But I hate her (or interpretation of her character) on Deathstroke arc. I just feel, what was she doing? The arc feel pointless, I don't even know what she wanted to gain on that arc? For Deathstroke to undo his sterilization and **** her? What the hell?
If I must choose Talia or Selina, I will choose Talia. I don't really fond of Selina, when I still watched anime, I really hate characters who end their sentence with 'meow'. I think that's really annoying. But I really hate Selina when she (unintentionally) distracted Bruce on beach when Dami tied on chair and watched Alfred's killing process. And you wanna make me believe that Talia, the Daughter of Demon Talia, with harsh training since childhood and maybe by Ra's himself, lost to a thieving cat who maybe never killed someone before? I hope Talia just tested her and did not seriously fight her.

Talia was just testing Selina but the problem is King only clarifies this fact on his twitter.

She is a very much a victim and conditioning

[dietrich]

I don't make the mistake of supporting a specific ship very passionately... But... I low-key hate BatCat and I am (low-key) a brutalia shipper.
It's not random that 2 of 3 most popular love interests of Batman, are from the other side of the law. However, Batcat seems to be a cheap copy of what they want to illustrate: The cliché dilemma between passionate, unresisting love and justice. Talia is the high class criminal here. And the true anti-hero (the original talia) for obvious reasons. So that's why she makes it more powerful.
To answer to what you wrote... I laughed my ass off at how ridiculous they made it with this fight. But the "good" ones always win. Apparently CW is better at Swords especially............
I think they have tried this angsty romance for so long... So sticking the understanding and compatible( with Bruce) Selina Kyle to batman, would prepare the ground for something they want to go for this time: settling down, changing of the status quo, exploring the family side of him, changing Batman's core etc...
And other boring stuff that tick me off. But it is 80year story. Sometimes, good things have to end. (Unpopular opinion here)



I really love how perfectly you can analyse those characters... Until I learnt that Talia killed Damian, I didn't hate her... (Well now kinda) ... I always thought she was misunderstood and very similar to him. But basically they have done whatever there is in their hands to destroy her. And that takes talent.

What bothers me with talia is not her being evil. Is her being illustrated as maniac, insane, uncontrolled, lost. It is a degradation of her character.

Talia's killing of Damian were confirmed to being the result of being under the control of a madness of some form that was taken out of her. They are contained in two Black pearls which she presented to Damian in Robin Son of Batman.
She meet up with him to reconcile and even help him stop an ancient cult from destroying the world.

[dietrich]

The Wonder Woman thing makes the Talia story not less shitty. That's not even an argument. And I do think that Morrison making Batman's only major poc love interest into an outright villain helped encouraging the racist portrayals we've got since then.
It's sad to see that Talia's portrayal was less offensive back in the day then it is now.

wasn't making an argument or even trying to counter you have your opinion and I have mine which is that bringing in a character that has zero to do with the plot. Who had no stakes in Bruce's love life just to set up a ship is shitter to me.

Talia losing at sword fight is nothing compared to smearing a character.
talia losing in a sword fight is nothing when she has dropped a nuke on bludHaven and already written as seducing a traumatised kid because jason was teenager when he was killed off so unless aged when he was he was still a teen. So yeah losing is nothing when a character has been written FAR worse.
WW was degraded. he was turned into a would be adulteress.


Talia was already a mass murderer before Morrison. So she was already villainous POC before Morrison