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  1. #3181
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    They wrote him as a bad leader, that's a fact, unfortunately.

  2. #3182
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    was the Siegel and Shuster school in Super Sons the first school Damian actually attend?

  3. #3183
    Astonishing Member Korath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    was the Siegel and Shuster school in Super Sons the first school Damian actually attend?
    Mercifully yes. Hopefully he'll never return to it and Supersons will be mostly forgotten. The more time goes, the less I like those books, really...

  4. #3184
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    Mercifully yes. Hopefully he'll never return to it and Supersons will be mostly forgotten. The more time goes, the less I like those books, really...
    Pretty sure you're in the minority with that opinion.

  5. #3185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    was the Siegel and Shuster school in Super Sons the first school Damian actually attend?
    He attended Gotham Academy at some point, if I'm not mistaken, but that didn't last long.

  6. #3186
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    Hopefully he'll never return to it and Supersons will be mostly forgotten.
    It won't, I assume you know that

  7. #3187
    Astonishing Member Korath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Astralabius View Post
    Pretty sure you're in the minority with that opinion.
    I can live with that. Damian's was so badly characterized in those series that I really don't understand how anyone who called himself a Damian fan before can support them, but I can live with that.

  8. #3188
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    Mercifully yes. Hopefully he'll never return to it and Supersons will be mostly forgotten. The more time goes, the less I like those books, really...
    I like those books even more now, considering they were the last time mainline Damian was actually likable.

  9. #3189
    Mighty Member Blue22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    I can live with that. Damian's was so badly characterized in those series that I really don't understand how anyone who called himself a Damian fan before can support them, but I can live with that.
    I'd say that I don't understand how anyone anyone who calls themselves a Damian fan could stand to see him backtrack in his development the way that he's been doing. But that's a little condescending and I recognize that there are many layers to him as a character and that people are fans of his for different reasons. You seem like a fan of how he was before he mellowed out. And that's cool.

    But I became a fan of Damian because I've enjoyed watching him grow from the angry, bratty loner with a chip on his shoulder and parental issues for miles, to a good person and a genuine hero. I enjoy watching him form meaningful relationships with the people around him when, not too long ago, it would have been almost impossible for him to even acknowledge anyone but Dick as his friend. I enjoy that, while he may have occasionally still struggled with it, he used to overcome his baser instincts and Al-Ghul programming instead of giving in to them. Before now, his was one of the best examples of character growth that I'd seen in a DC comic. Seeing him happy makes me happy.

    For as much as I hate the direction that a lot of my favorite characters have gone in as of late and think they're the wrong choices (Jon Ken, the X-Men, Damian, Nightwing...until recently, the Teen Titans, the Runaways...in certain aspects) I'm not gonna sit there and question the validity of the fans who enjoy those directions....just the sanity of the writers XD

  10. #3190
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    I can live with that. Damian's was so badly characterized in those series that I really don't understand how anyone who called himself a Damian fan before can support them, but I can live with that.
    Rule of Funny

  11. #3191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue22 View Post
    I'd say that I don't understand how anyone anyone who calls themselves a Damian fan could stand to see him backtrack in his development the way that he's been doing. But that's a little condescending and I recognize that there are many layers to him as a character and that people are fans of his for different reasons. You seem like a fan of how he was before he mellowed out. And that's cool.

    But I became a fan of Damian because I've enjoyed watching him grow from the angry, bratty loner with a chip on his shoulder and parental issues for miles, to a good person and a genuine hero. I enjoy watching him form meaningful relationships with the people around him when, not too long ago, it would have been almost impossible for him to even acknowledge anyone but Dick as his friend. I enjoy that, while he may have occasionally still struggled with it, he used to overcome his baser instincts and Al-Ghul programming instead of giving in to them. Before now, his was one of the best examples of character growth that I'd seen in a DC comic. Seeing him happy makes me happy.

    For as much as I hate the direction that a lot of my favorite characters have gone in as of late and think they're the wrong choices (Jon Ken, the X-Men, Damian, Nightwing...until recently, the Teen Titans, the Runaways...in certain aspects) I'm not gonna sit there and question the validity of the fans who enjoy those directions....just the sanity of the writers XD
    I didn't know that becoming the part of a comedic duo, in adventurers with no interest nor lasting effect on the characters was character growth, that's as simple as that. Supersons was mediocre from the get go because it was just a stealth "Jon Kent is the best and thanks he's here to help his dumb friend Damian Wayne" while it did nothing of interest nor of lasting effects to Damian. The kid went to other planets, other dimensions/universes (I don't quite remember here), and all he experienced was to be the butt end of jokes. Really, Sueprsons did horrible things to his character. It cemented the idea that - just like Bruce nedds a Robin to not go insane, so too Damian needs Jon to not become some crazy maniac.

    Meanwhile, TT took into account the events of No Justice where he saw a whole world dying because of his father and his team's action, he tried several ways to stop crime once and for all and kept failing. His methods may be distastful but his goals is clearly laudable and it's what I call character growth. Rejecting the flawxed creed of Bruce like he does that of Ra's is far better than to have him in need of a crutch to not go insane.

  12. #3192
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    I didn't know that becoming the part of a comedic duo, in adventurers with no interest nor lasting effect on the characters was character growth, that's as simple as that. Supersons was mediocre from the get go because it was just a stealth "Jon Kent is the best and thanks he's here to help his dumb friend Damian Wayne" while it did nothing of interest nor of lasting effects to Damian. The kid went to other planets, other dimensions/universes (I don't quite remember here), and all he experienced was to be the butt end of jokes. Really, Sueprsons did horrible things to his character. It cemented the idea that - just like Bruce nedds a Robin to not go insane, so too Damian needs Jon to not become some crazy maniac.

    Meanwhile, TT took into account the events of No Justice where he saw a whole world dying because of his father and his team's action, he tried several ways to stop crime once and for all and kept failing. His methods may be distastful but his goals is clearly laudable and it's what I call character growth. Rejecting the flawxed creed of Bruce like he does that of Ra's is far better than to have him in need of a crutch to not go insane.
    Hey, comics can be more than just vehicles to advance the characters. Especially cape comics, which are inherently static to a degree because writers don't want to iron out all of their flaws so they can keep generating conflicts/stories.

    What I mean is, there's a virtue in just having a fun series where Damian bonds with other kids his age and gets a bit of a reminder not to take life so seriously. If you didn't enjoy it that's valid, but it was also geared toward a younger demographic. You've got these great child characters, why not use them to tell coming of age/adventure stories too? If anything, I think it speaks to the versatility of the character.

  13. #3193
    Astonishing Member Korath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wingin' It View Post
    Hey, comics can be more than just vehicles to advance the characters. Especially cape comics, which are inherently static to a degree because writers don't want to iron out all of their flaws so they can keep generating conflicts/stories.

    What I mean is, there's a virtue in just having a fun series where Damian bonds with other kids his age and gets a bit of a reminder not to take life so seriously. If you didn't enjoy it that's valid, but it was also geared toward a younger demographic. You've got these great child characters, why not use them to tell coming of age/adventure stories too? If anything, I think it speaks to the versatility of the character.
    Well I have deep rooted problems with the static element of comics, so for me Supersons was more Damian losing stuff (his friend, his character, his character progression really) more so than "Hey, he can works for kids too!"

  14. #3194

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    Super Sons was one of the best books to come out of DC Rebirth but Damian's writing in that book was too childish there and out of character only to make their friendship with Jon worked. Someone said it very well: Super sons presented a diluted version of Damian to please everyone even those who hated him. In Super Sons he and Jon had a fun dynamic but at the cost of making Damian less heroic and more childish. He became the grumpy bad cop to contrast with Jon's goodness. A dynamic that as a Damian fan, I hated.
    And honestly, I am certain that Super Sons was the only reason why his ongoing series was canceled.

    Personally, this is how I think a friendship with Damian Wayne should be written while keeping his tough, arrogant and violent personality:


  15. #3195
    Mighty Member Blue22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    I didn't know that becoming the part of a comedic duo, in adventurers with no interest nor lasting effect on the characters was character growth, that's as simple as that. Supersons was mediocre from the get go because it was just a stealth "Jon Kent is the best and thanks he's here to help his dumb friend Damian Wayne" while it did nothing of interest nor of lasting effects to Damian. The kid went to other planets, other dimensions/universes (I don't quite remember here), and all he experienced was to be the butt end of jokes. Really, Sueprsons did horrible things to his character. It cemented the idea that - just like Bruce nedds a Robin to not go insane, so too Damian needs Jon to not become some crazy maniac.

    Meanwhile, TT took into account the events of No Justice where he saw a whole world dying because of his father and his team's action, he tried several ways to stop crime once and for all and kept failing. His methods may be distastful but his goals is clearly laudable and it's what I call character growth. Rejecting the flawxed creed of Bruce like he does that of Ra's is far better than to have him in need of a crutch to not go insane.
    Well it's unfortunate that you got that out of Super Sons but I've always found that to be an extremely off base over simplification of what that series and his relationship with Jon did for him. Especially when it comes to Damian's treatment by Jon, as if that was a one sided thing (and as if it was more than back and forth playful teasing like a lot of the more overzealous fans think). Yes the series was meant to hype up the shiny new character. Yes, their adventures were more childish and lighthearted than Damian normally partakes in (though...I'm not sure what people expected from a series about Robin working with Superman's ten year old son). But, overall, I appreciated Damian being able to have such a close friendship with someone, the likes of which we hadn't seen since before Flashpoint. I liked that Damian had a friend that he was able to let his guard down with and occasionally just be a kid. I liked him being able to show more than one side of himself. It reminded me of the relationship that he used to have with Steph, and his one team-up with Supergirl.

    Part of the tragedy that is Damian's character is how much he was forced to grow up in such a short amount of time. So it was always kinda heartwarming for me whenever he got to actually be a kid. I don't think it worked to his detriment. I think it gave him more layers as a character. That said, I do NOT subscribe to the idea that he needs Jon or that he'd go crazy without him. Nor do I think that was ever the purpose of their friendship. Jon isn't what put Damian in a good place in his life. That friendship happened because Damian was already in a good place. So that is where I draw the line when it comes to those two. I think Jon was good for him but he does not need him.

    Quote Originally Posted by delaviux View Post
    Super Sons was one of the best books to come out of DC Rebirth but Damian's writing in that book was too childish there and out of character only to make their friendship with Jon worked. Someone said it very well: Super sons presented a diluted version of Damian to please everyone even those who hated him. In Super Sons he and Jon had a fun dynamic but at the cost of making Damian less heroic and more childish. He became the grumpy bad cop to contrast with Jon's goodness. A dynamic that as a Damian fan, I hated.
    And honestly, I am certain that Super Sons was the only reason why his ongoing series was canceled.

    Personally, this is how I think a friendship with Damian Wayne should be written while keeping his tough, arrogant and violent personality:

    Disagree on the sons (obviously) but this just reminds me of how much I miss Colin and how great a character he could have been if he had gotten to stick around -___-

    Quote Originally Posted by Wingin' It View Post
    What I mean is, there's a virtue in just having a fun series where Damian bonds with other kids his age and gets a bit of a reminder not to take life so seriously. If you didn't enjoy it that's valid, but it was also geared toward a younger demographic. You've got these great child characters, why not use them to tell coming of age/adventure stories too? If anything, I think it speaks to the versatility of the character.
    This pretty much hits the nail right on the head.

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