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  1. #511
    All-New Member Yennefer's Avatar
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    Hello!!
    (This is my first post, I'm anxious haha)
    I've been reading this appreciation for quite a while and I would like to ask something...
    I've been having a huge trouble with figuring out what happened between Bruce and Damian... I've been searching the comics again and again and I only find 1 or 2 "new" scenes at the time... Today I tried to follow the whole "Doom war" event, but it's just a chaotic storyline...
    Do you know where can I find a Damian Wayne Reading Order from 2018-2019 till today? The last one was made in 2017....
    Also, something about everything written here:
    Damian, if used correctly, would be one of the most great sources of profit in DC. He could be one of the most loved characters in the whole universe, exactly because -even though his childhood was a bit surreal- his ethical struggle is real for every each of us. He is not perfect, he has mistakes, he has drawbacks...
    He is an anti-hero... And what drives me crazy with the fandom is why so hate, when other characters (heroes or antiheroes) may do similar things compared to him...
    And last but not least.... That "Hitler" line... A little respect for the human's history and the people who suffered and died would be nice for Bendis.
    As much as I love fictional characters and as much as I want to read complex comics... Some things must not be touched.
    I wonder that he was allowed to pull this thing...

  2. #512
    Fantastic Member Eto's Avatar
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    Never let Bendis writer Damian again. The dude clearly loathes the character. smh.
    Favourite DC heroes: Flash (Wally West), Red Hood (Jason Todd), Batman.

  3. #513
    Extraordinary Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yennefer View Post
    Hello!!
    (This is my first post, I'm anxious haha)
    I've been reading this appreciation for quite a while and I would like to ask something...
    I've been having a huge trouble with figuring out what happened between Bruce and Damian... I've been searching the comics again and again and I only find 1 or 2 "new" scenes at the time... Today I tried to follow the whole "Doom war" event, but it's just a chaotic storyline...
    Do you know where can I find a Damian Wayne Reading Order from 2018-2019 till today? The last one was made in 2017....
    Also, something about everything written here:
    Damian, if used correctly, would be one of the most great sources of profit in DC. He could be one of the most loved characters in the whole universe, exactly because -even though his childhood was a bit surreal- his ethical struggle is real for every each of us. He is not perfect, he has mistakes, he has drawbacks...
    He is an anti-hero... And what drives me crazy with the fandom is why so hate, when other characters (heroes or antiheroes) may do similar things compared to him...
    And last but not least.... That "Hitler" line... A little respect for the human's history and the people who suffered and died would be nice for Bendis.
    As much as I love fictional characters and as much as I want to read complex comics... Some things must not be touched.
    I wonder that he was allowed to pull this thing...
    welcome to the thread. Always fun to have a fresh voice join the community.

    Damian and Bruce didn't have a fallout. Damian lost faith in Batman and the JL when they failed to save a whole planet. This happened in No Justice

    He took it very badly. All the lives lost so he decided to find a better solution than Gotham's revolving door prisons and it's legal system that allows the same villains to keep coming back and hurting more people.

    He started giving Bruce the cold shoulder. Bruce knows he's upset and has reached out a couple of times but then shut down as a result of Bane and Thomas trolling him.

    There isn't any scene or issues that show them falling out just Damian is upset and ignores Bruce to go make a more gritty Team.

    Aside from bias fans seem to have different rules and filters for different characters.
    Damian and to a lesser degree Jason get dragged for stuff that's ignored in fellow Robins Dick and Tim or Batman.

    Sometimes fans drag then even before the read the story.
    fans also ignore what happens in story, ignore their history [calling them killers or evil] out right lie or twist canon and repeat it so many times that even fans who should know better start to repeat it.

    Damian isn't the Robin who always gets foreshadowed as going bad in the future and he doesn't always go bad when he becomes Batman. That's Tim but that's ignored it's obviously Damian.

    Same with the Hitler remake. How many people have challenged the fact that Bendis has the wrong Robin?

    We all read Rebirth Tec, Superson's of tomorrow, ToT and we got hints way back in other titles going back. Various versions of Tim as a fascist, RR had no issues working with a fascist in Tec but that's obviously Damian.

    Will post a reading order shortly. Good idea really since Damian has quite a few stories in different titles that some fans might not be aware of.
    Last edited by dietrich; 01-19-2020 at 10:14 AM.

  4. #514
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    Hi, welcome to our community!

    Bruce and Damian had a falling out after Justice League: No Justice. The event was a 4 issue event that DC published in May 2018.
    I've forgotten most of the stuff that happened, so I'm probably not the best person to ask but basically: The Justice League failed to save an alien planet and Damian had to watch it happen. It's not shown in the comic itself, but one panel of the epilogue has Bruce explaining to Black Lightning that "Robin has decided on his own way of doing things" or something along those lines, implying that they had an argument and Damian left Bruce.

    A consequence of No Justice was that the Teen Titans disbanded and Damian formed the current roster. Damian was already very disillusioned by the Justice League's failure, but after witnessing his favourite restaurant getting blown up and the owner, who's family he cared about a lot, getting killed in the process by henchmen of Black Mask, he decides that Batman's methods aren't working and he needs to find a different way. He puts together a new team and works together with Red Hood on his secret prison. I'm not a fan of the current Teen Titans run, so hopefully another person can explain this book better than I do.

    Their estrangement wasn't really adressed in any Batman book at the time until Tomasi started his run on Detective Comics in January 2019. Bruce asked Damian to fix things between them, but it turned out it was all a simulation at the end of the arc. For some reason Damian was working together with Bruce against the Arkham Knight in the next arc, but it was never explained why he they were on good terms again. Especially since nothing in Teen Titans showed Damian changing his mind or wanting to fix their relationship...idk. It doesn't make much sense.
    After that Damian started showing up around his father again in Event Leviathan, Justice League and during "City of Bane" in the main Batman book.

    Detective Comics 1017 had a page adressing Bruce neglecting Damian and being difficult to reach after Alfred's death, but they seemed fine for the rest of the issue.

    Honestly, the DC universe is pretty disconnected right now and because of that their relationship doesn't make much sense.

  5. #515
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    Damian getting a lot of hate, from readers and fans alike, for stuff that is apparently fine when other characters do it is bothering me a lot.

    The Justice League has brainwashed people before and none of them had to give up being heroes.
    Bruce had several secret prisons in his life and how breaking into Arkham and brutally beating up inmates or throwing ex-inmates off of buildings again and again for information doesn't count as torture is beyond me.
    Apparently Bruce is a hero and Damian...isn't. Even though his actions are not that different from those of "heroes" he sees around him.

    Edit: Bruce breaking KGbeast's neck and seemingly leaving him for dead in the snow also didn't provoke much of a reaction from fans.

    Edit 2: Another reason why I hate Bruce doing extremely sketchy things. It's so annoying when Bruce does some shit and turns around to one of the Robins in the next issue or another book and gives them a lecture on morals or ethics.
    Last edited by Ansa; 01-19-2020 at 09:45 AM.

  6. #516
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yennefer View Post
    Hello!!
    (This is my first post, I'm anxious haha)
    I've been reading this appreciation for quite a while and I would like to ask something...
    I've been having a huge trouble with figuring out what happened between Bruce and Damian... I've been searching the comics again and again and I only find 1 or 2 "new" scenes at the time... Today I tried to follow the whole "Doom war" event, but it's just a chaotic storyline...
    Do you know where can I find a Damian Wayne Reading Order from 2018-2019 till today? The last one was made in 2017...
    The chronology's kinda disconnected. Sometimes when it happens in relation to the others it's obvious, but often it's not, so I write this divided by series and include the dates.

    Damian first appeared in Detective Comics in Trial of Batwoman (February 2018) followed by Batmen Eternal arc starting the next issue.

    He is the main conflict in Deathstroke vs Batman arc of Deathstroke (April 2018)

    After Dark Knights Metal arc is finished, he appeared in Justice League story No Justice, wherein the aftermath he made new Teen Titans (May 2018) until Year of The Villain arc where he also returns to Justice League in Doom War arc (currently still ongoing). This is his main arc.

    In Batman, he's in Prelude to The Wedding (May 2018), then a cameo in Batman #71, then a major role in City of Bane arc (July 2019). He's there until it's finished.

    Damian returned to Detective Comics in Arkham Knight arc (April 2019) and then later in #1017 (December) set after the City of Bane

    Super Sons are continued to Adventures of Super Sons but they're not tied by canon. After that, it's Superman's Event Leviathan arc (currently still ongoing but set after his meeting with Jason Todd in Teen Titans Annual #1 in January 2019) and Super Sons reunion in Superman #16 (Oct 2019) then the current Legion of Superheroes #3 (Baby Hitler issue)
    Last edited by Restingvoice; 01-19-2020 at 09:56 AM.

  7. #517
    Astonishing Member Darkspellmaster's Avatar
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    Hi Yennefer, welcome. Bendis, I think, is under the impression that Damian has more influence in him from Ra's than his father. Honestly Tomasi, Brian Q Miller jave been the most consistent. I would even say Dan Jurgens at times when hes had him too.

    It's confusing because you have King doing his thing and everyone has to follow his lead.

  8. #518
    Extraordinary Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by king81992 View Post
    The next step for Damian should be actually having him learn how to not alienate his teammates( his recent storylines have been 'Damian leads, alienates his team, things go horribly wrong, Damian tries to be better, repeat) or put him in a setting where he's NOT the one in charge.
    This run is the only where we see him alienate his team members by lying to them. Percy's TT he fired Wallace which was the right decision. Garth got pissed because with his pal gone he;s now bored { He gave that as his reason for wanting star to take control] The reason for his dislike for Damian is that he is not fun

    Raven was dating Wallace so I get why she was upset when he was fired. That's it. Star, Wallace and Jackson were fine with him even if they agreed that he wasn't fun.

    Damian is likely never going to be a Dick grayson type who is great with people but I hope he gets better. Don't want him to be like his dad. 80 years and he's still alienating his teams mates and allies.

  9. #519
    Extraordinary Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    DC is done promoting him as a Son of Batman, isn't it? That's why his story is like... whatever... back to be Demon Child status quo you go? Without Tomasi's family concept and Morrison's divorce concept, they don't know what to do with him?
    Really?! Only those two concepts and writers? So many writers and concepts feel the shade.
    Yes Son of Batman was last pushed two weeks ago. Not sure where we are at this week. Baby Hitler I think

  10. #520
    Amazing Member Shen's Avatar
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    Greetings Yen (lol, couldn't resist.) It's good to meet a fellow newbie, though technically we've both been a part of this thread for a while You're right about Damian, he has soo much potential it amazes me that DC continue to overlook that in favour portraying him the way they do. DC are quite literally hypocrites in this manner.

    As for Bendis, it seems he has free reign whenever he gets his grubby hands on Damian. Like an idiot, I was willing to give the LOS a try if they treated Damian with a little courtesy, color me surprised - they didn't. After their comments, regardless if it were valid or not, LOS really lost any redeeming qualities (if it had any to begin with.)

    Damian's had some great writers in the past, people like Tomasi handled his character well. Then you get people like Bendis who really know how to piss a fan off. I truly don't understand why he has to take out his anger on a character, when he's in control of said character. If he hates something about Damian, he literally has the power to correct the issue. If he hates Damian for no reason - then he's an idiot.

    So yeah, there's some good stuff out there, and some spectacularly bad stuff as well. (Case in point - Baby Hitler) but with DC you never know.
    Last edited by Shen; 01-19-2020 at 11:22 AM.

  11. #521
    Astonishing Member Darkspellmaster's Avatar
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    Did I miss something with LOS, Jon was defending his friend to them.

  12. #522
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    You guys think they might be throwing all this stuff on Damian to build on the Helena hype for King's BM/CW?

    DCYou TT did something similar with Kon and Bart, but to be fair they were all the way at the edge at that time.

  13. #523
    Amazing Member Shen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkspellmaster View Post
    Did I miss something with LOS, Jon was defending his friend to them.
    Yeah Jon defended him, but the Legion (Minus Brainiac 5) really weren't having any of it, as far as they're concerned - Damian's comparable to Adolf Hitler. It wasn't even in a teasing manner, they thought Damian being there was literally a sick joke played by Chameleon Boy.

  14. #524
    Amazing Member Shen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkcrusade25 View Post
    You guys think they might be throwing all this stuff on Damian to build on the Helena hype for King's BM/CW?

    DCYou TT did something similar with Kon and Bart, but to be fair they were all the way at the edge at that time.
    I mean, yeah. It makes perfect BatCat sense.

  15. #525
    Astonishing Member Darkspellmaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shen View Post
    I mean, yeah. It makes perfect BatCat sense.
    Ugh, god no.
    Damian is no Hitler. But I guess being grandson to Ra's doesn't earn you any points.

    I actually loathe this pairing the way it is right now.

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