Damian Wayne: Robin Appreciation 2020

[dietrich]

I am willing to suspend judgment on him having to follow Glass' retcon. Sometimes writers have to put up with aspect of characters that maybe problematic to the story they want to tell. I just want to see how he handles it and how he will handle the team in September with Djinn and Damian gone. It will be nice to see other members get some character development.

I wouldn't mind some spotlight on Wallace and Thunder not that I'm planning on picking up this title going forward. I just feel that those two need some focus

[Light of Justice]

I have no interest in letting Bruce have it. I want him to heed and change. Unlike some Damian fans I don't mind Bruce forgetting Damian's Birthday or the whole thing of Damian and Tim not been seen in batman titles/the manor = Bruce is negligent. I understand that there's a real world reason for this.

However i'm sick of the lipservice. I'm sick of fans placing blame on batman and the batman writers when Glass, lobdell and the like purposefully write Bruce as a dead beat and fail to build the relationship back up [lobdell does try at times]

I don't want the Batgirl writer handling this. I want Thompson handling it. I wanted Glass to handle it since he set it up.

I'm not exactly blaming Bruce for forgetting Damian's birthday. On the list I made above, him forgetting Damian's birthday is probably the least I had problem with. I know that Damian's birthday is one of the pushing plot for Percy's TT first arc and he didn't want Batman to tag along. But you can't deny that Bruce is a bad father right now. Taylor's Detective Comic shows it, Synder's No Justice shows it, Jurgens Nightwing shows it, King's Batman definitely shows it, Tomasi and Tynion's R.I.P shows it quite harshly and who knows many more about other Robins (and Cass). It's not about Damian and Tim not been seen in batman titles/the manor = Bruce is negligent. It's when Damian and Tim (and his other children) are present Batman doesn't act as father and take care of them properly, or act as father at all. I just don't want they pulled 'Holy Batman who doth noht do anything wrong' like they did sometimes, and make Damian as the fully only sinner one. I just want it get called out, like Tomasi and Tynion did on Alfred R.I.P. On latest TT issue they make brainwashing fiasco to be completely Damian's fault so I think my concern is quite justifiable. Especially on solicitation they shows that Damian lost his Robin title and missing, and Batman is busy with Joker war, sounds like Damian is the only one who get affected from their collision. And Tynion's tweet confirm that whatever happened on TT is connected to why Damian doesn't appear on Joker War.

[Astralabius]

He hasn't given us much on Damian's motivation's and is seemingly going along with Glass' retcon of everything being Damian's idea so I don't have any reason to have faith in him yet

Motivation is pretty much the key to a story like Damian's in Teen Titans and sadly Glass has really botched that part.
Even if Thompson tried to include all the things Damian fans wanted to get dealt with now, it's far too late in the game to work.
If Dick got shot in the head right now I would understand why Damian suddenly thinks some criminals deserve the ultimate punishment. But that's old news, Dick is actually well on his way to finally come back to his true self after two years. Damian already said that he thinks they didn't go far enough at the end of the last Teen Titans issue, even if something happens in #42 to trigger Damian suddenly chasing after KGBeast, it seems like Damian already made up his mind about what he wants to do.

Considering that the Annual was originally supposed to take place after #41 and the solicitation we got for #42 speaks of Damian being missing like the solicitation for #45 now does too I suspect Damian chasing after KGBeast to kill him is actually part of DC changing plans after Didio left. Of course we don't know if that was Thompson's or DC's idea, but I would be lying if I said those solicitations made me feel hopeful Thompson's run would be less bad.

I don't know how to feel about the story in the 80th anniversary special. It was weird for Bruce to start caring about this when he did nothing about it for months. Maybe I'm paranoid, but I suspect the story was more supposed to be some kind of damage control to make Bruce look like less of an ass than he is.

[Light of Justice]

Given that this is already inevitable, now the most important thing is that this should be Damian's decision. It has to be his decision, no Bruce's. Because if Batman will just stupidly kick him out, then that's it, finish. After that, looking at him as a normal character simply won't be possible.
And there is still a moment that could smooth the corners between these two. I read the assumption a few days ago that maybe all of this description of Annual can actually be one complete misleading, and in fact Damian will meet there not with Bruce, but with Batman Who Laughs. And this the actual reason why Damian is considered missing and doesn't appear in Joker War, because BWL abducted him and turned into Robin King, whom, for some reason, Snyder did not show in anticipation of Death Metal and said that his identity was hiding intentionally, in order to surprise readers. So maybe that's can be the reason. It is, of course, far-fetched, but on the other hand Death Metal by that time will already be underway and there should be some kind of connection. And so far nothing is known about Damian in this event, although he should appear.

If it's his own decision that's pretty fine actually. Long time ago Damian rejected his fate as Al-Ghul heir, and if Damian also will reject Robin that means he will choose his own fate, fate which is not influenced by his mother or his father. It can be start of his maturity, like he chooses his own path, not as Al-Ghul or as Wayne. IMO he's still too young for that, but i think it's better than Bruce fires Damian and whatever will happen makes him missing.

[Light of Justice]

Well Thompson who is the one who wrote the Damian and Bruce story in the 80th anniversary issue for Robin. He showed that not only does Damian blame himself for Alfred's death but feels the other members of the family blame him too. Although, its not true Babs especially ends up being upset with Bruce for his treatment of Damian and basically tells him that he ran off with Salina and didn't bother to look after Damian during this time.

Not to mention Thompson doesn't make Damian's tone towards Bruce as angry but really not knowing what to do now that he's taken his current path we see in Teen Titans. Thompson writes him as a 13 year old boy who is dealing with guilt who needs guidance from his father but doesn't know how to ask for it and repair their relationship. Bruce is in the boat of one not knowing Damian is carrying guilt for Alfred's death but also not knowing how to repair his relationship with his son. He knows something is going on with Damian but worries that if he comes in guns blazing he could lose him forever. When it comes to Alfred's death Babs is the one who calls out Bruce saying that he basically allowed Damian to place the guilt on his shoulders instead of addressing what happened. She also talks about Bruce not being a good father to any of his sons right now when they need him the most.

So, no Thompson and other writers don't make Damian the bad guy or evil. But rather a child who really wants and needs guidance. He doesn't have Dick or Alfred right now so Bruce has to step up as a parent and provide it.

Which I like Bruce for a while now has gotten to skate by on his parenting of Damian because of Alfred and Dick being huge positive figures in his life. But it shouldn't be that way Bruce is supposed to be Damian's father not Dick or Alfred even though they have both done a great job with him. I am not saying that Damian and Bruce don't love each other but Bruce needs to step up and be Damian's father right now not Batman. Especially if he has another child on the way.

About evil, I'm just referring on DC morale concept, killing = evil. Because on next TT issue it implied that Damian will 'cross the line' again. And yes I agree with you, even though I love Dick-Damian relationship, Damian is not Dick nor Alfred's responsibility. Bruce needs to learn how to be functional father without those two.

[Restingvoice]

That DC concept of killing = evil is why he ended up in hell after death huh

Okay, I think I got the answer on Bruce and Damian. Thank you. Now it's just how they handle the follow-up. I'll leave what I want for that later after I take it in.

How about Damian and Jason?
- Damian asked to meet Jason in Teen Titans and they ended up fighting. I don't remember the context.
- Damian suspected and accused Jason in Leviathan. Later, Leviathan is revealed to be someone else. Old Manhunter I think.
- Damian and the rest of the fam joined in fighting Thomas Wayne according to Bruce's plan, and they all have dinner after everything's settled.
- Damian met Jason again during RIP. I don't think they talked much, Damian toasted early then left early.
I don't know what happened after that.

[Astralabius]

That DC concept of killing = evil is why he ended up in hell after death huh

Okay, I think I got the answer on Bruce and Damian. Thank you. Now it's just how they handle the follow-up. I'll leave what I want for that later after I take it in.

How about Damian and Jason?
- Damian asked to meet Jason in Teen Titans and they ended up fighting. I don't remember the context.
- Damian suspected and accused Jason in Leviathan. Later, Leviathan is revealed to be someone else. Old Manhunter I think.
- Damian and the rest of the fam joined in fighting Thomas Wayne according to Bruce's plan, and they all have dinner after everything's settled.
- Damian met Jason again during RIP. I don't think they talked much, Damian toasted early then left early.
I don't know what happened after that.

I don't think there was anything that happened after that.

[Light of Justice]

That DC concept of killing = evil is why he ended up in hell after death huh

Okay, I think I got the answer on Bruce and Damian. Thank you. Now it's just how they handle the follow-up. I'll leave what I want for that later after I take it in.

How about Damian and Jason?
- Damian asked to meet Jason in Teen Titans and they ended up fighting. I don't remember the context.
- Damian suspected and accused Jason in Leviathan. Later, Leviathan is revealed to be someone else. Old Manhunter I think.
- Damian and the rest of the fam joined in fighting Thomas Wayne according to Bruce's plan, and they all have dinner after everything's settled.
- Damian met Jason again during RIP. I don't think they talked much, Damian toasted early then left early.
I don't know what happened after that.

I don't know if it's counted or not, on RHATO Jason and Artemis was kissing and Artemis said that their kiss tasted weird, like she kissed with her brother even though she doesn't have any brother. And Jason said that he felt the same, and he has 4 brother. So that means he still acknowledge Damian as his brother. Although for me the more important question is..
JASON YOU KNOW HOW IT FEEL TO KISS YOUR BROTHER? WHICH BROTHER HAVE YOU KISSED BEFORE??


I'm just joking though, I know that both Jason and Artemis lied about their kiss, so high possibility that Jason didn't ever really kiss his brothers before. But yeah, my point is from that sentence Damian was kinda briefly mentioned by him. If there's something other than I don't know it

[Morgoth]

Considering that the Annual was originally supposed to take place after #41 and the solicitation we got for #42 speaks of Damian being missing like the solicitation for #45 now does too I suspect Damian chasing after KGBeast to kill him is actually part of DC changing plans after Didio left. Of course we don't know if that was Thompson's or DC's idea, but I would be lying if I said those solicitations made me feel hopeful Thompson's run would be less bad.

I'm not certain, but judging by original plans for 5G with Luke as Batman, Damian, probably, was supposed to become a villain/anti-hero, who would eventually clash with Luke. Maybe that was Didio plan from the beginning, at least to explain why Luke became Batman and not Damian. And that's why all of this happened with him. Probably the plot with a secret prison and an absolute failure as the leader of the Titans led to this.
But now plans obviously changed. The main question is that will happen instead of that. And it’s especially interesting what Tynion will do, because he already talked about big plans for him next year.

[Digifiend]

Uh you do realise this is still Glass' story?

uh You do realise that this has been set up way before Thompson ever got this gig?

I'm not going to blame a writer for a story they don't have ownership of. That's like Blaming City of Bane on Tynion.

Thompson has zero say here he's just completing a story he walked into so plz less of that.

Glass only planned up to Djinn War. Anything after that is all Thompson, hence Glass no longer being credited. If it was still Glass's story, the credit would be Story by Glass, Script by Thompson - instead of Thompson simply being credited as the writer.

If Glass had plans for Damian's next move, those plans have been changed because of 5G getting aborted.

[Astralabius]

I'm not certain, but judging by original plans for 5G with Luke as Batman, Damian, probably, was supposed to become a villain/anti-hero, who would eventually clash with Luke. Maybe that was Didio plan from the beginning, at least to explain why Luke became Batman and not Damian. And that's why all of this happened with him. Probably the plot with a secret prison and an absolute failure as the leader of the Titans led to this.
But now plans obviously changed. The main question is that will happen instead of that. And it’s especially interesting what Tynion will do, because he already talked about big plans for him next year.

As I already said, one of the changes was the new placement of the annual and the insertion of an arc where Damian is teased to hunt after criminals to make them "pay the ultimate price", so at least from my perspective it doesn't sound like plans have changed for the better. Quite the contrary actually.
Big plans don't mean much. DC has "big plans" for a lot of characters. It also doesn't mean that those plans involve Damian going back to being presented in a good light again.

[king81992]

Crush being the new leader? I have my doubts on weather the remaining members even choice her or she just appointed herself, and if anything it's the latter; otherwise it would make zero sense as she's not even close to leader material because she's the one that likes to just charge in without thinking the most. Red Arrow or KF should lead in Damian's absence, period. We can't blame Glass anymore because he's done, this is Thompson's doing.



Actually, she gets along quite well with, Emiko as evident from issues #22, #27, #31, and #37. Next to Djinn she's closet to Emi, who would be the one usually keeping Crush sane and calm if Djinn wasn't there. Roundhouse DID get along with Crush as well before the trapping Djinn in her ring, so they might be strain now. Kid Flash is probably the only one left not exactly the best of friends with her. He'll probably reject the idea but do little about it as he tends to do the entire run.

No one on the current roster is fit to lead ANYTHING. I feel like Crush is being set up to be an awful leader(nothing we've seen of her so far implies she has good leadership qualities) to justify putting Damian in charge again,despite the fact that he's not a good leader at all.

[king81992]

Sorry, I'm really not great at noticing relationship (either friendship or romance) when it's not very obvious. That's why when on issue 41 we were shown that Emiko loves Kid Flash, I am probably the only one who is shocked even though actually they got many hints on this TT run. On this team, relationships who are obvious enough for me is Crush-Djinn borderline romance, Kid Flash-Roundhouse broship, and Damian-Emiko professional teammate. But when I think deeply again, Emiko and Crush are quite friends with each other. So perhaps that explains this picture :

Attachment 97539

That picture is from TT #44, one issue before issue when Crush is the leader. So there's possibility that Emiko herself who ask Crush to be leader. Even though why will she choose Crush and not Kid Flash when she once admitted that Kid Flash has the most moral ground among them and even asked him for advice is beyond me.

Kid Flash has the morality, but no backbone whatsoever and it doesn't help that the others(except Roundhouse) ignore him when he calls them out. I do agree that Emiko asking Crush to lead would be out of character.

[king81992]

Still Kid Flash and Emiko relationship was EXCELLENT if you compare with Kid Flash and Raven forced couple. Lol. I think Kid flah don't fit in this group anymore.

Oddly enough, the only team that KF fit in with was Team Defiance and despite almost everyone on that roster being varying degrees on insane, they still functioned better than the current TT.

[dietrich]

Glass only planned up to Djinn War. Anything after that is all Thompson, hence Glass no longer being credited. If it was still Glass's story, the credit would be Story by Glass, Script by Thompson - instead of Thompson simply being credited as the writer.

If Glass had plans for Damian's next move, those plans have been changed because of 5G getting aborted.

It seems that you might be right and none of this is on Glass.

The decision and Damian's arc in TT might have been partly mandated. Robin is afterall a corporate character so the decision isn't made by a single writer or editor.

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/batma...77910/?page=94

Check out the bottom of the page. Damian fanboy and Glass convo
Some fans have no chill