Damian Wayne: Robin Appreciation 2020

[Fergus]

I got what peoples that don't like Bruce being a father say, but even if DC want to keep Bruce in his original mission, and compromised just with Gotham and being incapable of work and showing affection, Batman/ Bruce can't just became a abusive figure in his own family. He fight against people who spank childs and manipulate youngers, he can't do the same thing in his own house.
Maybe Bruce being a better father is against the character that someones have in mind, but the way he acts with his sons is?
Like, Alfred, I would like Alfred being more effective with all in Wayne manor? Yes, but I understand this is not his personality or role in the story.
He says "I became Batman so others childs will not have to live what I did", so what is the sense being a, again, not just a no good father, but a terrible father?

Because writers seem to think that angst is the only way to raise the stakes or increase impact. They twist characters just to develop others which isn't fair but sadly is common.
Not just the Batman writers but the Batfamily writers.
Bruce didn't beat up Jason to develop Bruce's character just like Bruce forgetting Damian's Birthday wasn't done for Bruce's development.

[Fergus]

On what interview Grant Morrison said that Damian stuck around causing problems for DC?

And yeah, I agree with you, Damian is the least problematic Robin origin. I remember on Robin War there's someone who criticized Batman because he brings kids around to beat criminal and Jason defended him by saying that probably those kids want to hit people all the time and Batman helped that kid to find someone he's supposed to hit. And I just think, how the heck those argument makes Batman looks like a good guy instead of very irresponsible adult? The fact remained that he turned 3 civilian children into child soldier. But Damian is child soldier from birth. He can't be easily turned into normal kid without knowing morality and rules of society, and Robin helped him to understand that.

The direct quote is from the Fatman on batman interview that can be found on Youtube [it's over 4 hrs so tedious finding the time code but i recommend it for any comic fan]

Here is another source to a book where he says pretty much the same but worded differently.

Grant Morrison on why he killed Damian [interview from McCabe, Joseph. 100 Things Batman Fans Should Know & Do Before They Die. Triumph Books, 2017.]


Your work also showed other creators how the character can evolve. Like when you gave him a son in Damian.

Yeah. But I always just wanted to kill the kid so he wouldn’t affect the future of Batman. Because I knew [writer] Scott Snyder didn’t want to have to deal with the son. Because his Batman was a loner, he was a bit more human. He could screw up more. Whereas my Batman was…Okay, you’ve done 15 years of training. You’re a zen master. You wouldn’t have those hatreds anymore. The training would have bombed you out. You’d be an optimum man by this point, psychologically quite pure.

You’d have inner peace.

Yeah. So that’s my Batman. He’s the optimum man. He’s solved his problems. But I understand why it’s cool to write about a Batman who’s a bit more angry and angst-driven and just dealing with the mission. So that’s why I wanted Damian out of the picture—“Here’s the story and then he dies and Batman can move on and you need never mention the kid again.” But the kid then proved popular, and he’s in there again, screwing up the continuity. So I’m kind of pleased with that. But, you know…[Laughs.]

I didn't say that Damian had the least problematic Robin Origin. He doesn't. That would be Dick and Duke since their Origin isn't dependent on another side character.

If you mean in the sense of ethics then I guess Damian is less problematic only in the sense that he is the only Robin whose life became less perilous by becoming Robin.

[Konja7]

Because writers seem to think that angst is the only way to raise the stakes or increase impact. They twist characters just to develop others which isn't fair but sadly is common.
Not just the Batman writers but the Batfamily writers.
Bruce didn't beat up Jason to develop Bruce's character just like Bruce forgetting Damian's Birthday wasn't done for Bruce's development.

This is true. Writers of other Batfamily members use "Bruce is a bad father" to develop (generate drama) their characters.

[Rebeca Armus]

Because writers seem to think that angst is the only way to raise the stakes or increase impact. They twist characters just to develop others which isn't fair but sadly is common.
Not just the Batman writers but the Batfamily writers.
Bruce didn't beat up Jason to develop Bruce's character just like Bruce forgetting Damian's Birthday wasn't done for Bruce's development.

This really makes senses... when you change the focus for another character writers need to do this... hummm still, Bruce forgotten Damian's birthday, is a "oh, typical Bruce" for me. But, yeah, I can think in many examples of what you said.

[Digifiend]

Some books do better digitally eg Injustice. One of DC's best seller and it was thanks to digital sales.

Doesn't Injustice sell ZERO copies in print? It's a digital exclusive series, isn't it?

[Rebeca Armus]

I have a thing because for me Batman was still the Batman of Cartoon shows, and I liked him when I read comics of my father sometimes too, but when I start to read more, looks like something is wrong, because Batman see himself like a hero, but his moral is weird.
Imagine you never saw anything about Batman before. So you listen he is a hero that don't kill, but you read a comic when he brokes the neck of another guy and refuse to call help letting him to die in abandoned snow (don't see likes Bruce believe KGBeast would not die). COOL comic, but, isn't this weird?
There is Thanos, he is a villain, he is Immoral, but everything he says is so logical, you know? And for the universe benefits he sacrifices his daughter and put his own life in dangerous. And for me Batman is kind this. He see himself saving innocents and following his don't kill rules, but he use loopholes in his own system for do things that are not of good guys. Like "Batman don't killllllll, but brokes people's neck he hates and let die abandoned in snow"; "justice never sleepsssss but take vacations for do couple yoga in beach while the city he promised protect is in fire" "Batman don't play, but tell lies so sooo dark that anyone doing this should be putting in Arkham".

[Rebeca Armus]

But I like Bruce being paranoic, too much confidence and full of power. the dark Knight, The best world Detective and don't the hero they want, but the villain they need. titles like this are pretty cool i love this exaggeration.
He was like this when he was trying to bring Damian back from death. He made Jason go at the place he was assassinated by Joker, and had the problem with Frank Stein, and other shits.
I don't think it was for Jason's development, It was Batman being Batman full of anger, angst and with ANY capacity of discernment, just like he do for protect Gotham.
So I think we can get who is Batman, but also that there is just scripts that was not well done.

[Konja7]

I have a thing because for me Batman was still the Batman of Cartoon shows, and I liked him when I read comics of my father sometimes too, but when I start to read more, looks like something is wrong, because Batman see himself like a hero, but his moral is weird.
Imagine you never saw anything about Batman before. So you listen he is a hero that don't kill, but you read a comic when he brokes the neck of another guy and refuse to call help letting him to die in abandoned snow (don't see likes Bruce believe KGBeast would not die). COOL comic, but, isn't this weird?
There is Thanos, he is a villain, he is Immoral, but everything he says is so logical, you know? And for the universe benefits he sacrifices his daughter and put his own life in dangerous. And for me Batman is kind this. He see himself saving innocents and following his don't kill rules, but he use loopholes in his own system for do things that are not of good guys. Like "Batman don't killllllll, but brokes people's neck he hates and let die abandoned in snow"; "justice never sleepsssss but take vacations for do couple yoga in beach while the city he promised protect is in fire" "Batman don't play, but tell lies so sooo dark that anyone doing this should be putting in Arkham".

I have exactly the same problem when I see Batman let KGBeast to die. And when Batman won't kill Bane, because it will be more horrible for Bane to paralize him.

Honestly, this seems to be a Tom King thing.

Tom King clearly doesn't like the "not kill rule" (King has said that Batman will kill someone horrible as KGBeast), but I guess editors won't allow him to break the rule. So, Tom King use more horrible loopholes.

[Rebeca Armus]

I have exactly the same problem when I see Batman let KGBeast to die. And when Batman won't kill Bane, because it will be more horrible for Bane to paralize him.

Honestly, this seems to be a Tom King thing.

Tom King clearly doesn't like the "not kill rule" (King has said that Batman will kill someone horrible as KGBeast), but I guess editors won't allow him to break the rule. So, Tom King use more horrible loopholes.

I don't know how, but I have forgotten that Bruce said it for Bane, it's definitely worst than kill. City of Bane was a mess : /

[Jackalope89]

I have exactly the same problem when I see Batman let KGBeast to die. And when Batman won't kill Bane, because it will be more horrible for Bane to paralize him.

Honestly, this seems to be a Tom King thing.

Tom King clearly doesn't like the "not kill rule" (King has said that Batman will kill someone horrible as KGBeast), but I guess editors won't allow him to break the rule. So, Tom King use more horrible loopholes.

Well, Beast apparently didn't die, as Damian supposedly will face him. Don't ask me how that works, I'm just pointing out what DC is planning on doing.

[Light of Justice]

The direct quote is from the Fatman on batman interview that can be found on Youtube [it's over 4 hrs so tedious finding the time code but i recommend it for any comic fan]

Here is another source to a book where he says pretty much the same but worded differently.

Grant Morrison on why he killed Damian [interview from McCabe, Joseph. 100 Things Batman Fans Should Know & Do Before They Die. Triumph Books, 2017.]


Your work also showed other creators how the character can evolve. Like when you gave him a son in Damian.

Yeah. But I always just wanted to kill the kid so he wouldn’t affect the future of Batman. Because I knew [writer] Scott Snyder didn’t want to have to deal with the son. Because his Batman was a loner, he was a bit more human. He could screw up more. Whereas my Batman was…Okay, you’ve done 15 years of training. You’re a zen master. You wouldn’t have those hatreds anymore. The training would have bombed you out. You’d be an optimum man by this point, psychologically quite pure.

You’d have inner peace.

Yeah. So that’s my Batman. He’s the optimum man. He’s solved his problems. But I understand why it’s cool to write about a Batman who’s a bit more angry and angst-driven and just dealing with the mission. So that’s why I wanted Damian out of the picture—“Here’s the story and then he dies and Batman can move on and you need never mention the kid again.” But the kid then proved popular, and he’s in there again, screwing up the continuity. So I’m kind of pleased with that. But, you know…[Laughs.]

I didn't say that Damian had the least problematic Robin Origin. He doesn't. That would be Dick and Duke since their Origin isn't dependent on another side character.

If you mean in the sense of ethics then I guess Damian is less problematic only in the sense that he is the only Robin whose life became less perilous by becoming Robin.

Thanks for the info!

Yeah I misinterpret your words before, now I see your point. Dick and Duke are Batman character whose origin isn't dependent on another side character. Jason's origin related to Batman-Dick separation, and Tim's origin related to Graysons's death and Jason's death. Damian's existence isn't related to other Robins, but sacrificing Talia's character instead (even though I once saw a comment that Damian helps Talia to have permanent place on Bat mythos, but isn't Talia is one of the most popular Batman's lover even without Damian?). I see some Talia fans are mad with DC because they portrayed Talia on bad light and as abusive mother, saying that they're racist, but looking at Batman's situation right now, I don't see how Damian will choose Batman over Talia if Talia is decent mother. I feel sorry for Talia, but Talia's bad parenting is one of Damian's building character.

[Digifiend]

Well, Beast apparently didn't die, as Damian supposedly will face him. Don't ask me how that works, I'm just pointing out what DC is planning on doing.

No supposedly about it, it happened last week.

[dietrich]

Doesn't Injustice sell ZERO copies in print? It's a digital exclusive series, isn't it?

Kinda missing my point which is that we don't really know how big the digital market is since we don't get the figures but it must be decent if we consider the success of titles like Injustice

[dietrich]

I was simply confused why they came to the Damian Wayne appreciation thread when they didn't seem interested in him. I don't see how it's my fault they got pissy. I don't have much patience for melodramatic people.
So if they want to leave because of something like this they can leave.
I didn't insult or bully them.
So don't tell me how to act.

The poster was simply sharing their opinion like they have done for over a year now even back on the old thread.

The poster was a regular on both Damian threads and a clearly a fan of the character as evidenced from not just his comments in the Appreciation threads but in general conversations in other threads.

Even if the poster's not a fan they are still welcome to share their views on what is currently happening with Damian in his titles so long as they are not trolling or being derogatory

[dietrich]

Uh, Damian being Slade Wilson's son isn't better by any means.

That aside, the main issue is that once upon a time, Bruce was a good father to both Dick and Jason. Then they decided to keep making Bruce darker, and well, here we are.

Little wonder the term Batjerk was coined in the 90's.