Damian Wayne: Robin Appreciation 2020

[CPSparkles]

I have to agree with Korath that Supersons turned Damian into the butt of the joke. I didn't like it.

I hope he doesn't bring that crap back in his new series

[Blue22]

And I still think most claims of that have been greatly exaggerated almost as much as the claims of Jon being "abusive". They both ribbed on each other or made the other look dumb all throughout the series. But people seem to only pay attention when it's Jon doing it to Damian for...some reason. It wasn't a one way thing. For every moment where Jon does something that's at Damian's expense, there's a moment of Damian belittling Jon or making him look stupid/weak/childish/etc.

[CPSparkles]

And I still think most claims of that have been greatly exaggerated almost as much as the claims of Jon being "abusive". They both ribbed on each other or made the other look dumb all throughout the series. But people seem to only pay attention when it's Jon doing it to Damian for...some reason. It wasn't a one way thing. For every moment where Jon does something that's at Damian's expense, there's a moment of Damian belittling Jon or making him look stupid/weak/childish/etc.

You know there are blogs dedicated to showing that Damian is abusive to Jon. Claiming how the relationship is toxic all because of Damian.
So the claim that people only pay attention when it's Jon doing it is false.

thattimdrakeguy.tumblr.com is one such popular blog
Even pro Damian blog's get in on it pinning the blame on him so it's not even like the people who are spreading this narrative are anti's only

nymph-patt.tumblr.com is a pro superson's blog that has multiple posts on Damian's abuse of Poor Jon kent.

What was Damian's crime when Jon elected to communicate with his fist while Damian was risking his life saving Jon's?

Damian does make fun of Jon but he doesn't physically assault him like Jon does to Damian [Jon seems to prefer fists over words when it comes to hashing thing's out with Damian in the SS series]

Jon makes fun of Damian more times than is the reverse. Jon is also has more instances of throwing insult's and belittling remarks out of nowhere when thing's are going well.

We all have our subjective opinions but going through all the issues of SS, Jon is the more Abusive of the duo [physically and verbally]
Going through the issues of both series of SS majority of the Jokes are at the expense of the Damian. There isn't a single issue where the reader is encouraged to laugh at/laughs at Jon but there's multiple where readers are encouraged to laugh at Damian.

There are exaggerated claims of abuse but those claims lay the blame on Damian.
There are more people who cite Damian as the abusive one in the relationship than the reverse.

The above aren't subjective or my opinion.

Can anyone point me to a single issue where the issue/story mocks Jon/makes him the butt of the joke like they did with the issue where Damian is aged up.

Can anyone point me to an issue where complete strangers make fun of Jon like the 2 Black girls from that alternate world?


The bickering and ribbing is supposed to be good natured. I get that but not's not balanced.

[Blue22]

You know there are blogs dedicated to showing that Damian is abusive to Jon. Claiming how the relationship is toxic all because of Damian.
So the claim that people only pay attention when it's Jon doing it is false.

thattimdrakeguy.tumblr.com is one such popular blog
Even pro Damian blog's get in on it pinning the blame on him so it's not even like the people who are spreading this narrative are anti's only

nymph-patt.tumblr.com is a pro superson's blog that has multiple posts on Damian's abuse of Poor Jon kent.

There are exaggerated claims of abuse but those claims lay the blame on Damian.
There are more people who cite Damian as the abusive one in the relationship than the reverse.

Heh. Learn something new every day. I'm basing this mostly on what I see here and comment sections for things relating to those two. So people go way overboard with both of them. Good to know. That's honestly one of the reasons I've stopped frequenting places like tumblr for fandom related things. Some of those bloggers have a knack for reading way too far into things and getting so wrapped up in a character's words/actions that they completely forget about the writers' intent. For the sake of everyone's sanity, I pray the Super Sons fandom isn't as bad as RWBY's in that regard.

What was Damian's crime when Jon elected to communicate with his fist while Damian was risking his life saving Jon's?

See, if the instance you're talking about is what I think it is, then that's another issue where intent is the key. Yes, Damian was trying to save Jon. But Jon was trying to save them both. Knocking Damian (and then himself) out wasn't his idea. It was Starfire's and she explained exactly why.




If they're unconscious, they can't be tracked by Raven. Literally everyone got that but Damian, who was too busy being...well...Damian. Uncooperative with people who are trying to help him. Love the kid to death but calling a spade a spade here. He's an *******. Wouldn't have him any other way but he is an *******. And in this situation, he was being the *******. Not Jon.

Damian does make fun of Jon but he doesn't physically assault him like Jon does to Damian

No, he just calls in a favor from a former assassin and a giant bat creature to kidnap a ten year old boy so he can interrogate him about a dead cat (whose death he knew was an accident). Then there's their fight at the end of Superman #11, where I'm willing to bet money on Damian being the one who threw the first punch given the context of that scene. Then we have him shoving a pie in Jon's mouth to shut him up in #20. Oh and him once again being the one who attacked first in Super Sons #5. And how could I forget him shooting the kid off of a building with what I assume is a flare gun?

Moral of the story: They're both a couple of immature, thick headed dunces who have a habit of hitting first and talking later. Which is something Damian has always been and will probably (hopefully) never stop being.

Jon makes fun of Damian more times than is the reverse. Jon is also has more instances of throwing insult's and belittling remarks out of nowhere when thing's are going well.

I'd have to do a lot of re-reading to argue with that and I've already gotten too distracted from my finals so I'll have to get back to you on this one lol

We all have our subjective opinions but going through all the issues of SS, Jon is the more Abusive of the duo [physically and verbally]
Going through the issues of both series of SS majority of the Jokes are at the expense of the Damian.

I reeeeeally wish we wouldn't call what those two do to each other abuse. Physical or verbal. There's a huge difference between an actual abusive relationship and some harmless back and forth ribbing/slapstick from two little kids (one of whom has always had a strong will, a massive ego, and a tendency to go off on anyone who doesn't fall in line with what he wants).

What they have a is an incredibly standard type of "opposites attract" friendship that you see literally everywhere in fiction. Hell, you see it with their dads.

They're Ruby and Weiss (in volume 1, anyway). Naruto and Sasuke (at least pre and post Shippuden). Zoro and Sanji. Midoriya and Bakugo. Goku and Vegeta. Ichigo and Rukia/Uryu. Ban and King. Literally every member of Team Bucciarati (though they're a...very extreme example). The list goes on and on.

Relationships that are born out of conflict and can almost come across as hostile when looked at by people who don't know them. But for those who do, there's that obvious layer of mutual respect and willingness to have each other's backs when push comes shove. The layer that easily shines through all the (typically played for laughs) fighting.

Can anyone point me to a single issue where the issue/story mocks Jon/makes him the butt of the joke like they did with the issue where Damian is aged up.

Just off the top of my head: That entire time Jon spent split between two versions of himself that hated each other.

And possibly in that Robin Anniversary special where we see snippets of some off-panel adventure that resulted in Jon being turned into a giant baby. Though I admit, we'd have actually had to see how that adventure played out to know for sure lol

Can anyone point me to an issue where complete strangers make fun of Jon like the 2 Black girls from that alternate world?

That's another one I'll have to get back to you on. I'd actually been meaning to re-read that arc for a while.

The bickering and ribbing is supposed to be good natured. I get that but not's not balanced.

Eh. I've thought it's all been pretty balanced and good natured, myself. But to each their own. I personally don't see anything wrong with their dynamic and find it pretty par for the course in terms of your stereotypical friendship/rivalry that you see in just about every story.

[CPSparkles]

Heh. Learn something new every day. I'm basing this mostly on what I see here and comment sections for things relating to those two. So people go way overboard with both of them. Good to know. That's honestly one of the reasons I've stopped frequenting places like tumblr for fandom related things. Some of those bloggers have a knack for reading way too far into things and getting so wrapped up in a character's words/actions that they completely forget about the writers' intent. For the sake of everyone's sanity, I pray the Super Sons fandom isn't as bad as RWBY's in that regard.



See, if the instance you're talking about is what I think it is, then that's another issue where intent is the key. Yes, Damian was trying to save Jon. But Jon was trying to save them both. Knocking Damian (and then himself) out wasn't his idea. It was Starfire's and she explained exactly why.




If they're unconscious, they can't be tracked by Raven. Literally everyone got that but Damian, who was too busy being...well...Damian. Uncooperative with people who are trying to help him. Love the kid to death but calling a spade a spade here. He's an *******. Wouldn't have him any other way but he is an *******. And in this situation, he was being the *******. Not Jon.


No, he just calls in a favor from a former assassin and a giant bat creature to kidnap a ten year old boy so he can interrogate him about a dead cat (whose death he knew was an accident). Then there's their fight at the end of Superman #11, where I'm willing to bet money on Damian being the one who threw the first punch given the context of that scene. Then we have him shoving a pie in Jon's mouth to shut him up in #20. Oh and him once again being the one who attacked first in Super Sons #5. And how could I forget him shooting the kid off of a building with what I assume is a flare gun?

Moral of the story: They're both a couple of immature, thick headed dunces who have a habit of hitting first and talking questions later. Which is something Damian has always been and will probably (hopefully) never stop being.


I'd have to do a lot of re-reading to argue with that and I've already gotten too distracted from my finals so I'll have to get back to you on this one lol



I reeeeeally wish we wouldn't call what those two do to each other abuse. Physical or verbal. There's a huge difference between an actual abusive relationship and some harmless back and forth ribbing/slapstick from two little kids (one of whom has always had a strong will, a massive ego, and a tendency to go off on anyone who doesn't fall in line with what he wants).

What they have a is an incredibly standard type of "opposites attract" friendship that you see literally everywhere in fiction. Hell, you see it with their dads.

They're Ruby and Weiss (in volume 1, anyway). Naruto and Sasuke (at least pre and post Shippuden). Zoro and Sanji. Midoriya and Bakugo. Goku and Vegeta. Ichigo and Rukia/Uryu. Ban and King. Literally every member of Team Bucciarati (though they're a...very extreme example). The list goes on and on.

Relationships that are born out of conflict and can almost come across as hostile when looked at by people who don't know them. But for those who do, there's that obvious layer of mutual respect and willingness to have each other's backs when push comes shove. The layer that easily shines through all the (typically played for laughs) fighting.


Just off the top of my head: That entire time Jon spent split between two versions of himself that hated each other.

And possibly in that Robin Anniversary special where we see snippets of some off-panel adventure that resulted in Jon being turned into a giant baby. Though I admit, we'd have actually had to see how that adventure played out to know for sure lol



That's another one I'll have to get back to you on. I'd actually been meaning to re-read that arc for a while.



Eh. I've thought it's all been pretty balanced and good natured, myself. But to each their own. I personally don't see anything wrong with their dynamic and find it pretty par for the course in terms of your stereotypical friendship/rivalry that you see in just about every story.

Hope you don't mind me using bullet point's.

. Agree tumblr is a down and breeds negativity in fandoms
. Damian being Damian except when tomasi wants to make a joke or make him OCC where he calls Superman sir and is suddenly humble the rest of the issue. Jon didn't have to punch Damian, he could have used his words. Damian isn't stupid and he isn't that stubborn. A kid who is willing to go to hell, willing to give his life to save other is willing to get knocked out for the safety of other so plz don't give me that .

. Funny you aren't familiar with these Damian is abusive to Jon blogs but you repeat one of the popular misinformation's from those sites. Go back to the issue Blue Damian sent maya to observe Jon not kidnap him . her orders were to keep an eye on his since his powers were dangerous and un predictable.

maya was forced to bring Jon in to save not just his life but the lives of lord knows how many creatures in that forest [Maya's and Goliath's included] from Jon guess what losing control and unleashing his dangerous powers.
Maya kidnapped Jon not Damian

. Yes Damian did assess Jon just like Bruce. Something Clark neglected to do thoroughly. he did so not simply because he was pissed or driven by selfish emotions. Unlike Jon who punched Damian because he dared to state the fact that Jon fried his cat

. I can't say who started the fight in Superman 11 and I'm not willing to make a bet because that's not subjective and open to bias.

We all interpret comic's differently due to individual bias which is why i asked for a specific issue where it's clear that we are supposed to laugh at Jon or he's the butt of the Joke.

Do you remember how many times dC circulated that panel of Jon Punching Damian from Superman #10?
Taking Damian down a peg was literally part of DC's promo for Supersons. Visit DC.com and look at the content from back when Rebirth was fresh.

. Damian isn't as immature as Tomasi portrayed him in Supersons and he most certainly isn't a Dounce.
. Honestly I think you tune out a lot of Damian stories. I get that you are one of those who insists that EVERY new writer resets Damian while disregarding like 90% of the writers who have written him but to make such claims about Damian is laughable.
. The issue with two Jon's didn't have any jokes at Jon's expense. The two Jon's bickering wasn't derogatory in any way. If anything it made Jon seem sweet and adorable [will revist it though just to refresh]

. Damian is an Arsehole but he is not just an arsehole. It's frustrating when some choose to ignore his other traits or growth/changes over the years and just see the funny arsehole.
. It's frustrating when some ignore all the contribution form other writers who have put in work to craft and chart the characters journey thus far. When changes he made in past stories are ignored because it's not Morrison or Tomasi or Gleason

Like i said before we interpret comics differently I felt that the balance was off in the Tomasi's writing to of the Supersons. dini, Taylor, Miller, Nguyen, Gleason they have a better handle on Damian interacting with jon and new friends.

Colin has no where near the amount of stories with Damian but Dini did more development of Damian's making friends than Tomasi ever did

Miller did a better job writing a balanced bickering friends/allies in his Batgirl run than Supersons

Gotham Academy, streets of Gotham and RSOB did a better job showing us Damian showing he can work with is peers than Supersons.
Percy did a better job showing us Damian's maturity than Tomasi.

All these titles show that Supersons is the outlier. All but one of these are before supersons yet goes backwards or is written like those titles never happened

Damian in Supersons is regressed. Tomasi regressed Damian for Supersons. Which is nothing new.

Tomasi has ignored key development milestones in Damian's story before

he ignored the no killing rule
He ignored Damian becoming a vegetarian
He ignored that Damian has already completed the making friends arc

Just to be clear i don't view the relationship as abusive [far from it]

I'm using the term because well Punching and insults technically are abuse so using it as a descriptor.

[Blue22]

You know what....studying can wait, I'm having fun lol

This is a long response so I had to split it into two posts.

Hope you don't mind me using bullet point's.
. Agree tumblr is a down and breeds negativity in fandoms

Negativity, ignorance, perversion. It's a fucking cesspool. Which is a shame because I used to love going there to find good fanfics.

. Damian being Damian except when tomasi wants to make a joke or make him OCC where he calls Superman sir and is suddenly humble the rest of the issue. Jon didn't have to punch Damian, he could have used his words. Damian isn't stupid and he isn't that stubborn. A kid who is willing to go to hell, willing to give his life to save other is willing to get knocked out for the safety of other so plz don't give me that.

They were on a bit of a time crunch and Damian wasn't making things easy. It would have likely always ended in someone knocking him out. Damian's a great guy, and that entire story line highlights some of the biggest positives about him and his friendship with Jon. But he's still a cocky little **** who has to have things his way or no way. Like he was trying to do in that very situation before Jon knocked him the **** out. That's not just a Tomasi thing. Whether it's Morrison, Glass, Gleason, Johns, etc, one constant about Damian is that he typically isn't the easiest person to reason with. Especially not for a ten year old kid in a highly stressful and time sensitive situation. One that he was probably blaming himself for and just wanted a way to get it all over and done with as fast and safely as possible. Was it a rash move? Yes. But there were too many factors for me to act like what Jon did was all that bad or unwarranted.

. Funny you aren't familiar with these Damian is abusive to Jon blogs but you repeat one of the popular misinformation's from those sites. Go back to the issue Blue Damian sent maya to observe Jon not kidnap him . her orders were to keep an eye on his since his powers were dangerous and un predictable.

Yeah. That was my bad. I got it mixed up with his little kidnap ("for their own good") spree in Teen Titans (You wanna talk about regression? Let's talk about the absolute fucking brat that he was in both Titans runs lol). I'll concede on that one

Unlike Jon who punched Damian because he dared to state the fact that Jon fried his cat

It was less the cat and more Damian being a dick every time Jon tried making peace, and then going for the low blow about his Mom. Though...that might have been a weird continuity hiccup on Tomasi's part. Damian taunts Jon about making his mom cry but I don't recall Lois crying over the cat. Jon struck first but Damian was 100% being an instigator there. Was it right? No, of course not. But, as I've said before, they're both guilty of unnecessarily assaulting the other on more than one occasion. It is what it is. And it's honestly not a big deal in the grand scheme of things.

. I can't say who started the fight in Superman 11 and I'm not willing to make a bet because that's not subjective and open to bias.

In this particular instance, I can't really imagine a scenario where Jon hit first. It felt to me like a subversion of what happened in #10, with Jon being the instigator this time instead of Damian. Literally the exact same set up. One of them got a little too mouthy and provoked the other.

We all interpret comic's differently due to individual bias which is why i asked for a specific issue where it's clear that we are supposed to laugh at Jon or he's the butt of the Joke.

And I gave you the specific scenario. Adventures of the Super Sons #3. That whole callback to the Red and Blue Superman stories. Jon got split in two and spent that entire time fighting with and making pot shots at himself.

That entire issue was full of stuff like this. Two Jons making fools out of themselves.

Do you remember how many times dC circulated that panel of Jon Punching Damian from Superman #10?

No. I don't. I don't typically pay attention to DC's social media presence or their online promos.

Well that certainly is concerning. But if that was their intent, I'm happy to at least think that they didn't do a good job at conveying that. Both runs weren't perfect, but by the end, Super Sons made me see Damian in an even more positive light than I already. Especially after reading Jon's words here:
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/xnFtf0S5N1...EnHPlAMg=s1600

. Damian isn't as immature as Tomasi portrayed him in Supersons and he most certainly isn't a Dounce.

It was mostly hyperbole when I referred to them both as dunces. I don't think Jon is one either but I'mma still call them both that when they act like it.

Honestly I think you tune out a lot of Damian stories. I get that you are one of those who insists that EVERY new writer resets Damian while disregarding like 90% of the writers who have written him but to make such claims about Damian is laughable.

I'm gonna stop you right there because I'm actually not...Or at least not as much as I used to be. There are a lot of writers who like to play up his brattiness in serious stories a little more than I'd prefer (Tynion being a good example). But, for the most part, the only times I've straight up had issues with the way he was written was when he was in the hands of Bendis, Glass, and Percy. And in Glass, case, I don't think he reset Damian. He just took him in a direction that I'm am SO not a fan of.

Everyone else, I'm mostly cool with. I still think Morrison, Tomasi, and Gleason are the ones who've been the best to him. But I don't insist every new writer messes him up.

. The issue with two Jon's didn't have any jokes at Jon's expense. The two Jon's bickering wasn't derogatory in any way. If anything it made Jon seem sweet and adorable [will revist it though just to refresh]

The entire issue was a joke at Jon's expense. Pages upon pages of him being a complete jackass and almost screwing up their escape because he couldn't stop fighting with himself. It was adorable, yeah. But it didn't turn "sweet" until the next issue when both halves stated to chill out. Though both of them talking about how great Damian is was also pretty sweet.

. Damian is an Arsehole but he is not just an arsehole. It's frustrating when some choose to ignore his other traits or growth/changes over the years and just see the funny arsehole.

And with that, I will 100% agree with you on. One of the worst things someone can do with Damian as a character is make him a stuck up ******* and forget that, underneath the pomp and the ego, he is a hero. One who's fought tooth and nail to undo the years of programming and actual abuse that he suffered through, growing up. The kid has multiple layers to who he is and that's what's always made him such an interesting character to me.

Like i said before we interpret comics differently I felt that the balance was off in the Tomasi's writing to of the Supersons. dini, Taylor, Miller, Nguyen, Gleason they have a better handle on Damian interacting with jon and new friends.

I will give you this. Something was definitely different about how Tomasi wrote Damian in Super Sons, as opposed to Batman and Robin. But not to the point where I'd say Damian was flanderized or made to act out of character. If anything, I'd chalk it up to the different tones of both series. Batman and Robin was obviously more serious so we got a more serious take on Damian. Super Sons is literally just a series of fun adventures between two kids. So you're gonna see Damian's inner kid come out sometimes. The way it has with Dick and even Stephanie (Man, I miss their friendship. I'd rather see that come back than Steph taking up the Batgirl mantle again)

[Blue22]

Colin has no where near the amount of stories with Damian but Dini did more development of Damian's making friends than Tomasi ever did

While I do really like Colin as a concept and as a friend for Damian, and think not bringing him back post-Flashpoint was a HUGE mistake, I gotta disagree here. Mostly because of how little time they were able to spend together. I think their relationship COULD have been better than Damian and Jon's. I think it SHOULD have been since Colin is the first time Damian was able to make friend with someone his own age. But I don't think it really got the chance to be. Those two could have been great. It really is a shame Colin doesn't really exist anymore.

Miller did a better job writing a balanced bickering friends/allies in his Batgirl run than Supersons

Different? Yes. Better? I'm not sure...I like 'em both for different reasons. Mostly because his dynamic with both characters is so different. At the end of the day, I can't really say which one I prefer.

Gotham Academy, streets of Gotham and RSOB did a better job showing us Damian showing he can work with is peers than Supersons.
Percy did a better job showing us Damian's maturity than Tomasi.

Those other ones are subjective but I have to hard disagree on Percy. I like his Titans lineup. I liked the series, for the most part. I actually prefer it over Glass'. It's actually really fucking close to a Titans line up I'd always dreamed of seeing (just replace Kory and Wallace with Wonder Girl and Impulse). But good Lord, the only character in that run that I found to be more insufferable than Damian was Wallace. If you were to ask me which Rebirth title did Damian the dirtiest, I'd pick Teen Titans over Super Sons in a heartbeat. For as little time as he spent with them, Damian was so much better in Geoff Johns' Teen Titans. I actually really wish he had stayed with them.

Damian in Supersons is regressed. Tomasi regressed Damian for Supersons. Which is nothing new.

Yeah I gotta disagree again. Aside from a few odd lines here and there (mostly popping up in Adventures and not in the main series), I don't see Damian in Super Sons as a regression. Quite the opposite, actually. I've always seen stories like RSOB and Super Sons as a testament to how far he's come as a character. There are so many moments in both of those books where I can't help but smile and think "Wow...This is the same angry little kid who thought he could kill every obstacle in his way". I've followed this particular Robin since he and Dick were a team. And to see him at a point where he's genuinely happy and can make friends with people who aren't also adopted siblings...it's really heartwarming.

I'm not gonna lie and act like Super Sons is always perfect or that Tomasi always has a handle on Damian's voice. But for what it is, I think it's a fantastic addition to who he is as a character. And that's the best thing about it. It's only one part of who he is. Just like how Tim's light hearted and comedic adventures with the old Young Justice were only a small part of who he is.

Tomasi's definitely not some genius writer and Super Sons is FAR from being as good as his Batman and Robin run. But he is still one of the only writers that I would always trust with the character.

Tomasi has ignored key development milestones in Damian's story before

he ignored the no killing rule

We're talking Morgan Ducard, right (whose death I still can't comprehend. I know Damian wasn't a normal ten year old but how the **** did he pierce that dude's skull with his fingers!?) Because, IIRC, that was another one where I was willing to forgive the actions because of the circumstances. Especially since this was back when Damian was still supposed to be a bit of a wild card.

He ignored Damian becoming a vegetarian

Not excusing this one but have any non-Morrison writers actually remembered that?

He ignored that Damian has already completed the making friends arc

Ehh...Not quite. He's never claimed Jon was his first friend. In fact Tomasi's gone out of his way to be one of the only people who not only remembers Maya exists but that she calls Damian her "brother". If anyone ignored Damian's "making friends arc", it's Percy with that dumb ass "I have no friends" line.

______

Apologies for the Super post. When I have a lot on my mind, stuff just tends to pour out lol

[Light of Justice]

Wow, I didn't expect to see a detailed analysis for a book like Supersons, both from pro and contra side. It's intresting to see different perspective from different side about Supersons.

And for me, basic of Supersons story is good cop bad cop trope.

On that kind of plot, indeed we are supposed to laugh at bad cop, like Agent Carter and Inspector Lee on Rush Hour. Also it's clear that the book was made for Jon, and Damian is his support character. I personally don't mind with it, Damian is often placed as bad cop multiple times, like on Nightwing Rebirth, Miller's Batgirl (bad cop worse cop), even Morrison's Batman and Robin, but I can see why some Damian fans didn't like it, especially for Supersons because while it kinda sucks when a character whom you admired to be placed as bad cop for good cop partner, I bet to be a bad cop for good cop partner who is younger, more naive and way more amateur will doubles the effect. Also it's frustrating when people judge Damian based on Supersons alone, even though clearly Damian's characterization on Supersons was remodeled a little to complement Jon character. Like when Jon fans said that Damian is "bully who deserve Jon's punch", ugh at least I already gave them my rant.

Personally I like and feel okay with Supersons. When I read it, I don't have to think hard about plot and characterization and just enjoy their sweet friendship interaction. When is Damian just a kid interacting with his kid friend and counterpart. The book is fun, light, silly journey between two boys, and for me it should be treated as such. Comparing who get harmed more and who hurt more on that book will just end up with pointless Pain Olympic round. Besides, jab and punch are basically welcome handshake on superhero universe. And honestly if some of Damian fans don't want or hate Supersons, they can ignore the book just fine, because I think the only thing on Supersons book that affects Damian's life is his friendship with Jon, which is nice because Jon is admittedly a character who has strong background and IP compared to the rest like Maya, Colin, Suren, and Maps, so their friendship will last longer (or at least until the time when DC will pull mini Batman vs Superman nonsense with both of them, which is honestly kinda expected from current DC).

[Light of Justice]

Btw, here's another fanarts (and meme) of latest Tec issues. Didn't expect the costume to be popular (personally it's kinda bland for me) or maybe it's just because cat effect, just like everything that happened in this world.


@concord-and-cliches (tumblr)


@umnoving (tumblr)


@yicruz48

[CPSparkles]

While I do really like Colin as a concept and as a friend for Damian, and think not bringing him back post-Flashpoint was a HUGE mistake, I gotta disagree here. Mostly because of how little time they were able to spend together. I think their relationship COULD have been better than Damian and Jon's. I think it SHOULD have been since Colin is the first time Damian was able to make friend with someone his own age. But I don't think it really got the chance to be. Those two could have been great. It really is a shame Colin doesn't really exist anymore.


Different? Yes. Better? I'm not sure...I like 'em both for different reasons. Mostly because his dynamic with both characters is so different. At the end of the day, I can't really say which one I prefer.



Those other ones are subjective but I have to hard disagree on Percy. I like his Titans lineup. I liked the series, for the most part. I actually prefer it over Glass'. It's actually really fucking close to a Titans line up I'd always dreamed of seeing (just replace Kory and Wallace with Wonder Girl and Impulse). But good Lord, the only character in that run that I found to be more insufferable than Damian was Wallace. If you were to ask me which Rebirth title did Damian the dirtiest, I'd pick Teen Titans over Super Sons in a heartbeat. For as little time as he spent with them, Damian was so much better in Geoff Johns' Teen Titans. I actually really wish he had stayed with them.



Yeah I gotta disagree again. Aside from a few odd lines here and there (mostly popping up in Adventures and not in the main series), I don't see Damian in Super Sons as a regression. Quite the opposite, actually. I've always seen stories like RSOB and Super Sons as a testament to how far he's come as a character. There are so many moments in both of those books where I can't help but smile and think "Wow...This is the same angry little kid who thought he could kill every obstacle in his way". I've followed this particular Robin since he and Dick were a team. And to see him at a point where he's genuinely happy and can make friends with people who aren't also adopted siblings...it's really heartwarming.

I'm not gonna lie and act like Super Sons is always perfect or that Tomasi always has a handle on Damian's voice. But for what it is, I think it's a fantastic addition to who he is as a character. And that's the best thing about it. It's only one part of who he is. Just like how Tim's light hearted and comedic adventures with the old Young Justice were only a small part of who he is.

Tomasi's definitely not some genius writer and Super Sons is FAR from being as good as his Batman and Robin run. But he is still one of the only writers that I would always trust with the character.



We're talking Morgan Ducard, right (whose death I still can't comprehend. I know Damian wasn't a normal ten year old but how the **** did he pierce that dude's skull with his fingers!?) Because, IIRC, that was another one where I was willing to forgive the actions because of the circumstances. Especially since this was back when Damian was still supposed to be a bit of a wild card.



Not excusing this one but have any non-Morrison writers actually remembered that?



Ehh...Not quite. He's never claimed Jon was his first friend. In fact Tomasi's gone out of his way to be one of the only people who not only remembers Maya exists but that she calls Damian her "brother". If anyone ignored Damian's "making friends arc", it's Percy with that dumb ass "I have no friends" line.

______

Apologies for the Super post. When I have a lot on my mind, stuff just tends to pour out lol

Don't mind the long post it's interesting to read.

Like I said before we all interpret certain ascepts of comics differently. If you honestly say that you were laughing at Jon and not with him in the issue where he was split then fair dues.

You seem to have forgotten the debate you had with @dietrich on the old thread where you made the claim that most seem to regress Damian and have no handle on him. Which he promptly debunked by giving you a list of the writers who have written Damian to date.

You also said that Damian is the most inconsistent written character in the bat family which is objectively false. nuances aside when you look at all the writers that have handled Damian the percentages just don't support your comment so yeah you are one of those fans who when it comes to a character that has been written by so many writers only insist on giving credit to a handful.

Tynion actually writes a good Damian as he proved with batman v TMNT imo but maybe you had a problem with how he wrote him in that title [or you are ignoring the series and simply looking at his handful of appearances in Rebirth Tec]

The only character in Percy's TT who deserves any ire is Garfield who managed to somehow be a combination of a bully and a coward. he was petty and really not a hero at all. Not sure why Damian recruited him or even kept him on especially after he was petty AF/reluctant to save the people of Gotham during Metal.

Yeah Percy did pull that no friends rubbish which was occ and untrue ps. The kidnapping TM's was very bruce but I'm glad that Glass did show that Damian has grown from that
I wouldn't credit Tomasi with Maya since the titles where he used Maya were all co-written with Gleason her creator.

It's fine if you thought Supersons was balanced like you said Agree to disagree.
Regardless of my issues with the book I still cherish it. That at let we can agree on. Supersons was a highpoint of DC rebirth

[CPSparkles]

Btw, here's another fanarts (and meme) of latest Tec issues. Didn't expect the costume to be popular (personally it's kinda bland for me) or maybe it's just because cat effect, just like everything that happened in this world.


@concord-and-cliches (tumblr)


@umnoving (tumblr)


@yicruz48

This is sad yet funny lol

[Blue22]

You seem to have forgotten the debate you had with @dietrich on the old thread where you made the claim that most seem to regress Damian and have no handle on him. Which he promptly debunked by giving you a list of the writers who have written Damian to date.

I did say I don't think that as much as I used to, didn't I? Being presented with new information is a great way to have your mind changed lol

You also said that Damian is the most inconsistent written character in the bat family which is objectively false. nuances aside when you look at all the writers that have handled Damian the percentages just don't support your comment so yeah you are one of those fans who when it comes to a character that has been written by so many writers only insist on giving credit to a handful.

Inconsistent yes. I do think certain writers have handled him differently to the point where, while not terrible, his words and/actions don't necessarily match up with the way he's developed (be it good development or bad). It's typically little things but they're things that I find to be inconsistencies, nonetheless. How bratty and difficult to work with Damian can be often does depend on who is writing him. Tynion in his tec run, for example, had him in that family meeting contributing absolutely nothing aside from the typical "everyone here sucks" attitude that you'd expect more from him, pre-Flaspoint. As for his TMNT crossover, I'm not ignoring it. I haven't read it. If we're being totally honest here, I often forget it existed lol. So for now I'll take your word for it on how well he handled Damian in that. I'll probably get around to reading it eventually but it never really caught my interest enough to check it out.

So yes, while I no longer think Morrison, Tomasi, and Gleason are the only writers who get Damian, I do still think he and Bruce are some of the more inconsistently written characters in the family, in terms of their overall attitudes and how well they work with others. Are they all bad takes on Damian? No. There are only three or four takes on him that I'd call bad. But a lot of them are just enough for me to see noticeable differences between interpretations. Glass' Damian isn't King's Damian. King's Damian isn't Percy's Damian. Percy's Damian isn't Tynion's Damian. And so on. Hell, I've noticed Tynion even offers up more than one version of Damian. One who acts like he doesn't want any part of the family and one who cares enough to give Tim a much needed pep talk. Of course, when a character has been around for so long and is written by so many different people, you're bound to come across some differences in how the character is portrayed. But his just...always stuck out more to me than with any other Batfamily member.

[Blue22]

Btw, here's another fanarts (and meme) of latest Tec issues. Didn't expect the costume to be popular (personally it's kinda bland for me)

I actually like it a lot better than the updated Robin costume that he's had since Rebirth. It's simple but very..sleek. And very him. Like his original Robin costume.

To me, one of the only downsides I'd see for him going back to Robin would be losing this look.

[Jackalope89]

I admit, this is me since the age-up happened;

[Fergus]

Tynion's Batman/TMNT is something I would recommend to fans of Damian, Batman and the Turtles. It adds the rest of the family later and handles them okay.

Tynion's problem is Tim. Put Tim in the mix and the chances everyone starts acting out of character goes up by nearly 100%.

As was the case in Rebirth Tec and Robin 80th where Tynion wrote Damian and Tim in the same story.

Those few issues of Tec and the one Robin 80th story when compared to 3 volumes of Tynion's Damian in Batman v TMNT [18 issue] the difference is clear.

The guy gets the character and knows how to write him he just gets overcome with his fanboyism when Tim is thrown into the mix