Damian Wayne: Robin Appreciation 2020

[Blue22]

It might mostly be because I'm happy to see real Jon again but I have no problem with Super Sons being the focal point of Damian's story here. Nor have I ever felt that their friendship was only beneficial to Jon and a hindrance to Damian as a character (if we're being completely honest, that's more how I go back and forth on feeling about both of his Titans teams). It damn sure didn't set him back in any way. If anything, I feel it's a testament to how far he's come

With Colin gone from existence, Damian finding another kid his age (or...close enough) and forming the kind of connection those two had is one of the best things to happen to him while he was on the road to being a better hero and a better person in general. He needed someone like that. A friend he had that was outside the family who could be a foil to him but also share a deep connection with. Granted, that person was Maya first but Tomasi and Gleason seem to be the only ones who thinks she's marketable. Not that it matters, anyway. People are allowed to have more than one best friend.

I've always thought both Damian and Jon brought out something in each other that they couldn't get from their other friends and family.

For Jon, being with Damian showed him the life of a hero outside of Superman's world. When they're together there's this stronger sense of Independence that I get from him that you didnt see as often in his Dad's titles. Despite being written by the same person, Jon felt different in Super Sons than he did in Superman. And whether that was intentional or now, I always felt it was a really nice touch.

For Damian, Jon brought some MUCH needed levity. Especially with him going through all the bullshit he's still enduring in other titles. His time with Jon was the time he had to unwind, to have fun, to forget about the not so great stuff that was happening in his life around the same time. For once in his life, he had someone close to his age that he could let his guard down with, even if it was just a little. Someone to be protective of. Someone he got to try just being a kid around. Some may disagree but I enjoyed seeing that side of Damian. I thought the softer side Jon brought out in him could have been beneficial to him as a hero had their friendship been allowed to continue the way it was.

NOW however, with Bendis at the helm and Jon now a whole seven years older, I feel like their dynamic actually has become what detractors were saying that it's been from the start. Damian looking bad for the sake of making Jon look good. They don't feel like equals anymore. Now it's like...the mature, experienced big brother and the bratty little brother who doesn't know what he's doing. Which not only completely wrecks the kind of relationship they had before but is already VERY similar to the one Damian already has with Dick.

[Yennefer]

Did Colin die or did he just get deleted from the continuity?

[Korath]

I guess Colin isn't bankable enough compared to the Son of Superman...

@Blue22 : I actually dislike that Supersons made Damian act so much like a normal kid. He isn't, and he won't ever be. He is a child soldier, born and bred to kill, and even if he left that behind him, Batman's crusade still make him a child soldier. He can have his childish elements (like sneaking out to play at the arcade) but the sheer goofiness and the fact that Supersons kept using him as a tool for Jon makes abundantly clear that he must not interact with child characters in that way.

Damian aloofness and awkwardness when dealing with people his age are his strengths, not weaknesses that need to be erased by the writer. The kid deserve happiness, but he won't find it by being a kid. He hasn't been allowed to be one, he won't ever be one. But he can mature into a damn fine young man. That's why healthy figures of that age (such as Dick, Maya or even the little bit which was hinted with Duke at the end of We Are Robin) are better for him and his growth.

[Blue22]

See, I never viewed Damian as a "tool" for Jon. They always felt like equals to me, both benefitting from what the other had to offer.

As for Damian, himself, I actually think it was very healthy for him to try and experience being the kid that he was never allowed to be. It's not like being around Jon turned him into this happy go-lucky Ninja-Batman version of himself. He still very much felt like Damian. Just....not as uptight or as brooding. There was only ONE time in the entire Super Sons run when I thought "Okay Tomasi....now you're making him too childish". And that wasn't until the very end.

Like I said, it was a chance for him to lower his guard around someone from time to time. And let someone in that he didn't necessarily have to like he did with his family. It's not gonna completely change his personality or
anything and I definitely never wanted it to. But I think having that one relationship in addition to the ones he already made have been nothing but good for him in terms of character growth.

Did Colin die or did he just get deleted from the continuity?

Deleted, unfortunately. If he was dead, there'd at least be a high chance of him coming back eventually -___-

As much as I love Super Sons, I preferred Colin as Damian's potential first best friend. Someone he didn't make friends with because he's related to them or because his dad is friends with their dad....Or because he killed their dad

[Katana500]

I hope Maya doesn't go the same way as Colin.
Maybe theirs a curse. if your friends with Damian your fate is too be deleted from the universe.

[dietrich]

Did Colin die or did he just get deleted from the continuity?

Colin didn't go anywhere he's in Once upon a crime which comes out next month it's just that writer's care more about pushing their IP's they are connected to than they care about following continuity.

Gleason keeps using Maya because it's in his interest to make her big so he can get royalties.

While Tomasi didn't create Jon or Maya he created Maya's dad and the Supersons are a property related to him.

Nothing stops him or anyone from using Colin they just choose not to.

[dietrich]

I hope Maya doesn't go the same way as Colin.
Maybe theirs a curse. if your friends with Damian your fate is too be deleted from the universe.

Did you delete them?

[dietrich]

I guess Colin isn't bankable enough compared to the Son of Superman...

@Blue22 : I actually dislike that Supersons made Damian act so much like a normal kid. He isn't, and he won't ever be. He is a child soldier, born and bred to kill, and even if he left that behind him, Batman's crusade still make him a child soldier. He can have his childish elements (like sneaking out to play at the arcade) but the sheer goofiness and the fact that Supersons kept using him as a tool for Jon makes abundantly clear that he must not interact with child characters in that way.

Damian aloofness and awkwardness when dealing with people his age are his strengths, not weaknesses that need to be erased by the writer. The kid deserve happiness, but he won't find it by being a kid. He hasn't been allowed to be one, he won't ever be one. But he can mature into a damn fine young man. That's why healthy figures of that age (such as Dick, Maya or even the little bit which was hinted with Duke at the end of We Are Robin) are better for him and his growth.

I liked that Jon brought out that part of Damian but these days I'm so glad Jon got aged up and the Superson can no longer be.
Superdsons was becoming too much of Damian's character and then when you get ignorant fans saying stuff like if Jon was here Damian wouldn't be doing this or that!

That kind of nonsense just pissed me off because
1, it's not true. Jon has never been Damian's morality
2, It's incredibly disrespectful to try to suggest that Damian's redemption or decision to be a hero can be attributed to a character that was created 10yrs after Damian became a hero.

[Katana500]

Did you delete them?

If I had the power of deletion i'd defo go on a power trip. They wouldn't need to worry though, id have much more pressing targets! Mwahahahhahahaha

[Blue22]

Colin didn't go anywhere he's in Once upon a crime which comes out next month it's just that writer's care more about pushing their IP's they are connected to than they care about following continuity.
.

Damn. I keep forgetting about Once Upon a Crime. That's something, at least.

[dietrich]

See, I never viewed Damian as a "tool" for Jon. They always felt like equals to me, both benefitting from what the other had to offer.

As for Damian, himself, I actually think it was very healthy for him to try and experience being the kid that he was never allowed to be. It's not like being around Jon turned him into this happy go-lucky Ninja-Batman version of himself. He still very much felt like Damian. Just....not as uptight or as brooding. There was only ONE time in the entire Super Sons run when I thought "Okay Tomasi....now you're making him too childish". And that wasn't until the very end.

Like I said, it was a chance for him to lower his guard around someone from time to time. And let someone in that he didn't necessarily have to like he did with his family. It's not gonna completely change his personality or
anything and I definitely never wanted it to. But I think having that one relationship in addition to the ones he already made have been nothing but good for him in terms of character growth.



Deleted, unfortunately. If he was dead, there'd at least be a high chance of him coming back eventually -___-

As much as I love Super Sons, I preferred Colin as Damian's potential first best friend. Someone he didn't make friends with because he's related to them or because his dad is friends with their dad....Or because he killed their dad

Who deleted him? people shouldn't assume. There's a difference between not being used and deleted. That is just misinformation especially since Colin is back next month.

Damian throwing Jon off a building
Damian ignoring an animal peril so that Jon can save
The constant Superdickery where Jon shows or tells us how strong he is or how much powers he has compared to Damian's none including when Damian is minding his own business exercising
The constant short jokes
The whole Damian is the reason why Jon will go do the one bad thing he does in the future
Damian being the joke or all the Jokes being at his expense eg. Old man Robin or the 2 girls from the other planet who have never met Damian aside from him SAVING them taking Jon's side right away in mocking him.

I could go on.

Damian was written as a caricature of himself to push Jon. There's a reason why fans who can't stand Damian in other titles love supersons because it's literally Damian getting knocked down issue after issue.

Jon brought out a side of Damian that was him just being a kid which I'm grateful for but these days I'm glad DC ended the partnership. It was becoming too much of who Damian as a character is.

Hopefully Last LOS's using Damian to increase sales is the last time Damian will be used in service of Jon kent

[dietrich]

If I had the power of deletion i'd defo go on a power trip. They wouldn't need to worry though, id have much more pressing targets! Mwahahahhahahaha

Lol Imagine what you could do with so much power? That's too much power for one fan.

[Blue22]

especially since Colin is back next month.

I said before that I forgot about that, didnt I? XD

Damian throwing Jon off a building
Damian ignoring an animal peril so that Jon can save
The constant Superdickery where Jon shows or tells us how strong he is or how much powers he has compared to Damian's none including when Damian is minding his own business exercising
The constant short jokes
The whole Damian is the reason why Jon will go do the one bad thing he does in the future
Damian being the joke or all the Jokes being at his expense eg. Old man Robin or the 2 girls from the other planet who have never met Damian aside from him SAVING them taking Jon's side right away in mocking him.

I could go on.

Damian was written as a caricature of himself to push Jon. There's a reason why fans who can't stand Damian in other titles love supersons because it's literally Damian getting knocked down issue after issue.

Most of the stuff you listed were literally just jokes/comedic moments between the two. Something that should not only be expected in a more light-hearted and comedic series, but something friends do with each other all the time. It's not like it was all one sided. Damian's taken his fair share of pot shots at Jon too. That's just how they operate. Did Jon have more than Damian? I don't know. I wasn't necessarily keeping score. But they were both dicks to each other both in the way friends tend to be and in the way Damian is with everyone.

Like I said before, there was maybe one time in that entire series when I thought Damian was written in a way that made him seem overly childish or out of character. And it was so damn brief that I can't even remember exactly what he said. Aside from that, he was exactly how I'd expect him to be in a goofy, child friendly series where he's teamed up with another super kid. And I'm definitely not saying this as one of the people who only reads Super Sons becasue it supposedly makes Damian look bad. The kid's been one of my favorite comic book characters for years. I've loved watching his growth from his early days in Morrison's run. And, I still loved Super Sons to death and think his character needed something like this. And I'd have loved to see how their dynamic would have played out had they been able to move Jon onto a slightly more serious title like Teen Titans (Percy's run. I don't think there's any place for him in Glass' Titans).

I will agree with you on one thing though. The notion that Jon is Damian's moral compass has to stop (as does the shipping. But that's a whole other can of worms). And I see it more from fans than I do DC. The notion that Jon is the only thing keeping Damian from being a monster or that Damian is corrupting Jon needs to stop. He knew the difference between right and wrong WAY before he met Jon.

If I had the power of deletion i'd defo go on a power trip. They wouldn't need to worry though, id have much more pressing targets! Mwahahahhahahaha

**** deleting. Give me the power to restore. The only thing I'd do is bring back Real Jon, make Maya relevant again, and restore the Teen Titans to their Pre-Flashpoint history. There are many things I want from DC right now but those are the most pressing matters lol

[Digifiend]

restore the Teen Titans to their Pre-Flashpoint history.

Pretty much already happened. Evidence:

• In Justice League Odyssey, Starfire and Cyborg are old friends. They didn't know each other in New 52.
• The latest Nightwing issue had flashbacks to the original and New Teen Titans.
• Bart Allen visited the 2003 Titans Tower when looking for Tim, Cassie and Conner in Flash Annual #2. If that team had never existed he'd have found an empty space where the tower should've been.

That means at bare minimum, the original, 70s, New Teen Titans (1980-1995) and 2000s Teen Titans definitely existed. Only the 1996 Teen Titans and 1999 Titans team remain uncertain, which are due to nobody from the 1996 team being used in current continuity and the 1999 team including the currently not existing Jesse Quick.

[Blue22]

They've been on the right track already in regards to acknowledging the Titans' past. But considering we're still in the Post-Flashpoint universe, that raises A LOT of questions that still need to answered. Particularly in regards to the 2003 team. I'm usually not a fan of these but need an event or something cuz it feels like they're just throwing in random old callbacks regardless of whether or not it fits in with the current timeline. I want the old TT back. But I want it to make sense still lol

I need something totally concrete that can't be debated. Something that screams "The Teen Titans and ALL of their history are back". Or maybe I'm trippin' and that already happened in like Doomsday Clock or something else I didn't read.