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  1. #766
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue22 View Post
    You know...part of me wonders if Damian would have been better off staying Dick's partner even after Bruce came back.
    They were the best team, but I like Bruce and Damian together when writers actually bother to write them together.

    But I'm also an old fogey who likes seeing Batman and Robin together.

  2. #767
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    They were the best team, but I like Bruce and Damian together when writers actually bother to write them together.

    But I'm also an old fogey who likes seeing Batman and Robin together.
    I feel the same. I enjoyed Batman and Robin 2011, the Arkham Knight Arc and Detective Comics #1017. But that's also because I like how Tomasi and Taylor write Bruce.

  3. #768
    Ultimate Member dietrich's Avatar
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    I would really like to know what percentage of Batman fans like the loner broody stuff and how many like Batdad. I get that the higher ups might be tone deaf [Tomasi was told that fans don't want family they want action] but surely there must be a way of balancing the needs of both sides.

    I enjoy Dick and Damian and Bruce and Damian for different reasons.
    I'm a sucker for Brucedad with all his kids so it's too bad Dc doesn't like that side of heroes.

  4. #769
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    If it was just DC wanting Bruce on solo-adventures that would be fine by me. I wouldn't buy it because I don't care that much about Bruce/Batman doing stuff all on his own, but I know a lot of people love it. Just say that Robin, Batgirl, Nightwing etc. are busy if you need to explain why none of them are helping him with a difficult situation and leave it at that.

    What I don't get is why DC feels the need to go out of their way to write him as a dick to his family when they clearly love to make posts with panels from older runs where Bruce hugs one of the kids for father's day or similar occasions.

  5. #770
    Astonishing Member Blue22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dietrich View Post
    I would really like to know what percentage of Batman fans like the loner broody stuff and how many like Batdad. I get that the higher ups might be tone deaf [Tomasi was told that fans don't want family they want action] but surely there must be a way of balancing the needs of both sides.
    I prefer a nice balance but if I had to choose between the two, it'd be Batdad. Bruce can be a REALLY good father and mentor to his family when he wants to...but how often does that happen anymore?

    I understand why DC and certain fans might not have enjoyed the direction Tomasi went in with his Superman run and some of his Batman stories but those honestly tend to be my favorites. At this point, I read comics for the characters more than I do the action. Some of my favorite moments in comics come from seeing these heroes interact with each other and their families. I'm that weirdo who love seeing how extraordinary people handle the more mundane and normal parts of life just as much as I love seeing them doing all the stuff that superheroes are more known for doing.

    It's why I love the Batfamily so much. It's why Tomasi's Superman is the only Superman run I've ever straight up loved. It's why I love groups like Young Justice, the Teen Titans, The X-Men, the MCU Avengers, and the Fantastic Four. Because they're superheroes, yes. But they're also a family. They have the same kinds of relationships, complexities, trials, and tribulations that you'd expect to see from any kind of family and I've just always found that to be really fascinating. I'm an action junkie just like any other comic/anime nerd. But I also like seeing characters just...interact with each other.

  6. #771
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    You know, the fundamental problem with DC is obliquely addressed in this interview. They don't understand the changing demographics of their readers, or that the reasons that characters like Damian and Harley are so popular is because they allow adults to re-self insert. Instead of attempting to recruit young readers, which fails miserably with things like both TT runs, they need to remember that adults are the major consumers of YA. Which is why Damian has been so popular: he reminds us of our own kids, younger siblings, nieces and nephews, the children of best friends. He allows the readers to be Dick Grayson and Bruce Wayne and even Talia al Ghul (depending on the writer and how racist they are). More importantly, he allows us to extend out that painfully short period of time when kids are kids and getting in trouble due to being kids who have misadventures.

    I'm a fan of Damian because he reminds me of my best friend's nephew who was dropped on his door by CPS (child protective services). The kid was like Damian was when first introduced and gradually became the weirdo with a huge heart that Damian is under the influence of having a circle of adults who cared about him and were involved in his life. (He's also now a college graduate, started a career, and cheerfully putting off having kids, something I want to see Damian do...many years from now.)

    As Dustin says, Damian is at his best when he acts 13, which is an age when everyone is inherently mad. Just like Bruce and Talia are at their best when they are two people who loved each other but didn't work out because life comes between them, but they can still be friends with benefits and attempt to raise their two children (Jason and Damian) together in a crazy world...that's not all that crazy compared to most countries.

    Anyhow. Damian is the perfect Pinocchio.
    https://io9.gizmodo.com/the-team-beh...lls-1841582691

  7. #772
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    Quote Originally Posted by CPSparkles View Post
    We saw Jason inquiring how the set of the jail went.
    We saw Jason telling him how to steal money and cover his tracks
    and most importantly we saw Jason say that he was the one who reached out to Damian and Glass told us that Damian had a new mentor.

    Everything points to Jason. {Did you forget those pages?}

    Glass by not showing us how Damian decided on his new path put everything on Jason. Damian last we saw was just disillusioned but this isn't the 1st time Damian has been disillusioned.

    I'm pretty sure Bruce isn't rooted to Gotham. The point is that everyone seems to be forgetting the mentor who reached out to Damian offering help that wasn't asked for and who we saw giving him bad advice and the conversation shows that jason had a hand if not full responsibility for what damian was doing.

    I hope Glass and co address all involved and show us how and why Damian would suddenly listen to a Robin he views as a failure. I get that Dick was gone but even if the whole world was gone Damian wouldn't accept Jason's offer of mentorship. Not in a million years





    Everybody should take responsibility.

    Thank goodness Glass is off this. damian in canon has his own money so no need to steal.
    Damian would never take advice from Jason. Those two thing's which this tale hinges in are 100% occ and thongs that Damian would never need to stoop to.

    The stealing was Damian so that was an error. Jason like a responsible adult to a 13yr old of course gives the right reply.
    To me the whole interaction sounds more like it was Damians own idea, and that Jason was just OK with it. Not like Jason told to do it or how to do it.
    And that Jason had reached out now to give him the information about Gordon. In general Jason seemed to be just an source of information and not really a mentor.

  8. #773
    Extraordinary Member CPSparkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    To me the whole interaction sounds more like it was Damians own idea, and that Jason was just OK with it. Not like Jason told to do it or how to do it.
    And that Jason had reached out now to give him the information about Gordon. In general Jason seemed to be just an source of information and not really a mentor.
    Why do you choose to interpret it that wahy? Could you give me just one example from canon to suggest not even support but just to suggest that Damian would reach out to Jason?


    We have explains of Jason reaching out to Damian and we have examples of Jason being a corrupting influence on Kids [Tim who he encouraged to drink and The Robin kids who he mentored by getting them to steal]Even if you read it as vague then the fair thing is to let your past knowledge of these characters guide you. Damian would never in a million years reach out to Jason. Why would he? There';s really nothing that Jason can teach him. Making illegal jails? I might give you that if Bruce didn't already have one before Damian and Jason [jason kept penguin in his]

    Mind wiping? Damian breaks into the JL database [how he learnt everything that happened to Thomas Waynes world] so easy for him to get that idea from there.

    Anyway the part where Damian asks so who's next makes it clear that jason isn't just reaching out to give info about Gordon . It makes it clear that he has a list that Damian is working through

    The solicits said he was a mentor and I know that solicits can be wrong but nothing here makes it appear that way.

    The annoying thing is that Jason was pointless in the end so why bring him in?
    Last edited by CPSparkles; 02-12-2020 at 04:32 AM.

  9. #774
    Extraordinary Member CPSparkles's Avatar
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    I prefer batfamily/Batdad over solo Bruce. Nightwing and Robin [Tim] got me into Batman in the first place. I was reading them and then got into their interactions with Batman

  10. #775
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    I think Bruce will need some ice after Pennyworth RIP.

  11. #776
    Caperucita Roja Zaresh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CPSparkles View Post
    Why do you choose to interpret it that wahy? Could you give me just one example from canon to suggest not even support but just to suggest that Damian would reach out to Jason?


    We have explains of Jason reaching out to Damian and we have examples of Jason being a corrupting influence on Kids [Tim who he encouraged to drink and The Robin kids who he mentored by getting them to steal]Even if you read it as vague then the fair thing is to let your past knowledge of these characters guide you. Damian would never in a million years reach out to Jason. Why would he? There';s really nothing that Jason can teach him. Making illegal jails? I might give you that if Bruce didn't already have one before Damian and Jason [jason kept penguin in his]

    Mind wiping? Damian breaks into the JL database [how he learnt everything that happened to Thomas Waynes world] so easy for him to get that idea from there.

    Anyway the part where Damian asks so who's next makes it clear that jason isn't just reaching out to give info about Gordon . It makes it clear that he has a list that Damian is working through

    The solicits said he was a mentor and I know that solicits can be wrong but nothing here makes it appear that way.

    The annoying thing is that Jason was pointless in the end so why bring him in?
    Didn't Damian went to Jason when they discovered that Dick was alive in the New 52? I think I remember that from Grayson. It seems to me that he goes, or would go, when he doesn't have any other choice. As you said in your original post, he doesn't have here: he's doing something Bruce wouldn't like, or Barbara, or Cass, or Steph, or even Kate or Tim. He's at odds with his father, even. Dick is not there either (again). He's going to do something more than questionable. So, given the choices, he choices to go to Jason with his situation; Jason, who more than likely has the means to find and handle to him the info he needs because he's walking between the bad guys and he's dealing with vigilantism that side of the world (Gotham). Jason, who's most likely not to bat an eye when he knows the plan.

    Damian is a smart teen, and he knows how the dark side of their wold works. Why wouldn't he go to Jason for information and some backup for his plans?

    Now, if you want to blame Jason, he's guilty of not stoping Damian, or trying to make him reconsidere. Or, heck, he's guilty of helping him because he wants to give a big "take that" to Bruce. Or just because, well, he would see Damian's little dungeon as an option to work with, why not.

  12. #777
    Extraordinary Member CPSparkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaresh View Post
    Didn't Damian went to Jason when they discovered that Dick was alive in the New 52? I think I remember that from Grayson. It seems to me that he goes, or would go, when he doesn't have any other choice. As you said in your original post, he doesn't have here: he's doing something Bruce wouldn't like, or Barbara, or Cass, or Steph, or even Kate or Tim. He's at odds with his father, even. Dick is not there either (again). He's going to do something more than questionable. So, given the choices, he choices to go to Jason with his situation; Jason, who more than likely has the means to find and handle to him the info he needs because he's walking between the bad guys and he's dealing with vigilantism that side of the world (Gotham). Jason, who's most likely not to bat an eye when he knows the plan.

    Damian is a smart teen, and he knows how the dark side of their wold works. Why wouldn't he go to Jason for information and some backup for his plans?

    Now, if you want to blame Jason, he's guilty of not stoping Damian, or trying to make him reconsidere. Or, heck, he's guilty of helping him because he wants to give a big "take that" to Bruce. Or just because, well, he would see Damian's little dungeon as an option to work with, why not.
    No Damian did not go to Jason in the new 52 or any other time. Grayson came to Damian. Damian never approached Jason re Grayson.





    Damian can find info that Bruce himself can not as established in the B&R Annual so no Damian wouldn't go to Jason for info. [this was regular detective methods as well]
    Damian can get info lex Luthors computers and Jl's computers.

    There is no info in canon that supports Damian ever needing to or reaching out to Jason what we have is info that shows the opposite.

    Damian rates Jason as the lowest of the Robins. Why would you reach out to someone who you consider less than yourself? You might as well do it yourself. Damian reaching out to Jason is nonsensical and contradicted by canon.

    Red headed Jason has more canon backing it up than Damian reaching out to Jason. Jason in canon is strawberry blond and he has tried to kill the Bats multiple times.

    But here not a shred of canon what we do have is stories that establish that Damian wouldn't accept help from Jason even when he has reached out
    Last edited by CPSparkles; 02-12-2020 at 06:42 AM.

  13. #778
    Ultimate Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Last edited by dietrich; 02-12-2020 at 06:52 AM.

  14. #779
    Ultimate Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CPSparkles View Post




    This is Everything. I love this page so much

  15. #780
    Mighty Member Katana500's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ansa View Post
    I think Bruce will need some ice after Pennyworth RIP.
    I'm certain that Joker War is going to entail Bruce deliberately working to bring the family back together addressing and alleviating each member of the Bat family's concern. I also think that his conversation with Wonderwoman in Superman Heroes is some super foreshadowing for whats to come - with Bruce being jealous of Superman for having a happy family that is all out in the open.

    I think Joker War will end with Bruce hanging up the cowl and doing what Alfred would have wanted - being a family with those he cares about most.

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