Damian Wayne: Robin Appreciation 2020

[Ansa]

Yes! This is the reassurance I was looking for!!! :P

Honestly, if DC was that committed to making them a lasting thing they wouldn't have pulled King from the book. Them not getting legally married in Batman #85 was already a strong hint that DC wants to keep the option to get rid of them pretty quickly if they feel like it.

[Ansa]

Thomas was they key in making Bruce forget Batman. Not Selina.... His character was a great chance for the character development of the whole batfam. THIS would made interesting and profitable comics, cause we would see so many dynamics between characters... Imagine how Thomas and Damian would interact and how this man -who shaped Bruce at some grade- would affect his personality AND development.

So yeah, I totally agree with you!

The potential for Flashpoint Batman in the main universe was really wasted in King's run.

[RLV_1996]

Thomas was they key in making Bruce forget Batman. Not Selina.... His character was a great chance for the character development of the whole batfam. THIS would made interesting and profitable comics, cause we would see so many dynamics between characters... Imagine how Thomas and Damian would interact and how this man -who shaped Bruce at some grade- would affect his personality AND development.

So yeah, I totally agree with you!

Thanks! I was thinking a lot on how characters of Damian and Thomas would interact. And considering how alike Thomas and Damian were in their take on Batman (at least before Tom King run), Thomas should have been much better at understanding his grandson, his emotions and struggles. Maybe, at least as alternative universe story, they meeting each other would have been heartwarming.

[RLV_1996]

The potential for Flashpoint Batman in the main universe was really wasted in King's run.

Yeah, and now all I can think of Flashpoint Batman is him killing old Alf and pointing gun to his grandson’s head..

[AmiMizuno]

I would say Damian is closest to Nightwing, because Dick brought the best in Damian during his run as Batman.

But Damian was actually starting to get along with Bruce as well, before rebirth. They were still on decent ground during Super-sons, but then multiple dramas started to happen non-stop, without authors willing to write Bruce and Damian actually talking to each other in any issue. So, they kinda drifted apart, from what I’ve got.

Now we have another drama with Damian and his prisons.

I mean in a weird way I wouldn't mind if Daiman would be more closet to Nightwing than his Dad. In a way Nightwing has always been the big brother/father to many of the Batfam. So while he should be close to Bruce. He is closer to Nightwing

[Blue22]

Dick is definitely the Piccolo to Damian's Gohan. I don't mind Damian always being closer with him than he is with Bruce....but I'd still like him and Bruce to be close like they were before. This little falling out they have has been poorly handled in just about every title it's come up in (the ones that remember that the two aren't on these vaguely bad terms). And the closest we've gotten to any explanation for how it started was Bruce forgetting Damian's birthday.

I just want it to end. As independent as he's always been, forcing drama just to get Damian out of the way is unnecessary.

[Jackalope89]

Dick is definitely the Piccolo to Damian's Gohan. I don't mind Damian always being closer with him than he is with Bruce....but I'd still like him and Bruce to be close like they were before. This little falling out they have has been poorly handled in just about every title it's come up in (the ones that remember that the two aren't on these vaguely bad terms). And the closest we've gotten to any explanation for how it started was Bruce forgetting Damian's birthday.

I just want it to end. As independent as he's always been, forcing drama just to get Damian out of the way is unnecessary.

Only difference being that Dick is less tsundere about it then Piccolo. Lol

[RLV_1996]

I mean in a weird way I wouldn't mind if Daiman would be more closet to Nightwing than his Dad. In a way Nightwing has always been the big brother/father to many of the Batfam. So while he should be close to Bruce. He is closer to Nightwing

I agree, it actually makes a lot of sense. In many families with strong patriarchal figure, father is like moral authority, whose heavy presence defines the family itself. Children would certainly love that kind of father, but more there always a distance there, as kids don’t want to disappoint that father figure.

So, connection with older brother/sister/mother allows to vent feelings and to trust with personal issues, with relationship being more relaxed. It’s different kind of love, with stronger ties, where you don’t need to prove anything to anyone. But one relationship in such family does not replace the other. So, from my perspective, batfamily before rebirth was that kind of family.

[RLV_1996]

Dick is definitely the Piccolo to Damian's Gohan. I don't mind Damian always being closer with him than he is with Bruce....but I'd still like him and Bruce to be close like they were before. This little falling out they have has been poorly handled in just about every title it's come up in (the ones that remember that the two aren't on these vaguely bad terms). And the closest we've gotten to any explanation for how it started was Bruce forgetting Damian's birthday.

I just want it to end. As independent as he's always been, forcing drama just to get Damian out of the way is unnecessary.

Yes, this constant drama and misery for the sake of some “original” plot of another genius author is just really emotionally exhausting to read..

[AmiMizuno]

Dick is definitely the Piccolo to Damian's Gohan. I don't mind Damian always being closer with him than he is with Bruce....but I'd still like him and Bruce to be close like they were before. This little falling out they have has been poorly handled in just about every title it's come up in (the ones that remember that the two aren't on these vaguely bad terms). And the closest we've gotten to any explanation for how it started was Bruce forgetting Damian's birthday.

I just want it to end. As independent as he's always been, forcing drama just to get Damian out of the way is unnecessary.

I agree and Bruce has forgotten things before due to his research but GEnerally not birthdays useless he couldn't due to him being attacked. He generally always sends something in most cases. Like I said I don't mind if Damian was brought closer to closer to Bruce. I rather Dc stop making Damian a butthole all the time. That made him a little bit of a jerk but way more likable. BUt than keep going back to a time. I mean with the whole Nightwing thing it's just because at times all the Batfam needs someone to vet to. Even Bruce has done it with Nightwing. I mean all the Batfam have done that in many other settings.

I mean Love the fact Diamain and Jon, They balance each other out toned Daiman down. What's the point of keeping his personality the same just toning it down.

[dietrich]

I agree and Bruce has forgotten things before due to his research but GEnerally not birthdays useless he couldn't due to him being attacked. He generally always sends something in most cases. Like I said I don't mind if Damian was brought closer to closer to Bruce. I rather Dc stop making Damian a butthole all the time. That made him a little bit of a jerk but way more likable. BUt than keep going back to a time. I mean with the whole Nightwing thing it's just because at times all the Batfam needs someone to vet to. Even Bruce has done it with Nightwing. I mean all the Batfam have done that in many other settings.

I mean Love the fact Diamain and Jon, They balance each other out toned Daiman down. What's the point of keeping his personality the same just toning it down.

Damian and Jon don't balance each other out since we've never seen them when they weren't caricatures of themselves. They are not supposed to balance each other out.

Damian has never stopped being a butt hole just like Bruce has always been a butt hole and I frankly dislike it when fans expect him to stop been one. Some people are just arse's. Damian, Bruce, Guy, Clark before PC they are all ares holes and that is who they are. Damian is supposed to be a difficult to like and an arsehole. that;s him. If you ever read a Damian with his arsehole qualities significantly dialled down then that Damian is OCC. Eg even you note that Supersons Damian is toned down. That is deliberately watered Damian

Dick and Tim are nice, Jason is regular I don't need another regular or nice robin. Heroes don't have to be likeable or nice. Often people are asreholes so it's important that that's reflected in comics.

Damian is closer to Dick than anyone else so we are already there. Dick is his friggin conscience.

[dietrich]

Dick is definitely the Piccolo to Damian's Gohan. I don't mind Damian always being closer with him than he is with Bruce....but I'd still like him and Bruce to be close like they were before. This little falling out they have has been poorly handled in just about every title it's come up in (the ones that remember that the two aren't on these vaguely bad terms). And the closest we've gotten to any explanation for how it started was Bruce forgetting Damian's birthday.

I just want it to end. As independent as he's always been, forcing drama just to get Damian out of the way is unnecessary.

Their fallout had nothing to do with bruce forgetting damian's birthday and nowhere does it even imply so not even in TT where the forgotten Birthday was mention did they ever imply that the two had fallen out.

Their fallout was 1st mentioned in Dc nation and then No justice which was over a year after the forgotten birthday and over a year of the most bruce and damian together content we've had since 2016.

Their fallout was in no Justice to give him a reason to form the new TT and to isolate him from king's batman.

[dietrich]

[QUOTE=RLV_1996;4844307]I apologize, I was reading this thread for a long time, but I suddenly felt that some things by Dazai_Osamu needed to be adressed.



The poster Dazai_Osamu seems to be regurgitating the same opinions that have been going round and repeated constantly by anti damian blogs most notably Thattimdrakeguy.com

[RLV_1996]

[QUOTE=dietrich;4846864]

I apologize, I was reading this thread for a long time, but I suddenly felt that some things by Dazai_Osamu needed to be adressed.



The poster Dazai_Osamu seems to be regurgitating the same opinions that have been going round and repeated constantly by anti damian blogs most notably Thattimdrakeguy.com

Lol, I thought Timmy fans already got over Damain.

[dietrich]

Number one, being crÃ*tical of Damian it isn't an excuse for the heroes who brainwashed other heroes, even if DC treated the failed brainwashing as enough punishment, and all their other illegal actions more or less are ignored at the end of the day, DC doesn't go deeper in that possible plot and I think the reason is many heroes would end up as huge hypocrites it'd be like 'I'm a hero and I've won and as enforcement agencies and correction departments are useless I'll punish the villains as I see fit'. Bruce and his illegal prison and torture as a method of gaining info should be adressed in universe, in fact, this would be a good point for Damian the 'you're firing me but you the same, you are worse because you grew up knowing whatÂ’s acceptable in society and the value of human rights.

Battle for the cowl was a mess Jason was super crazy in a too convenient way, Dick was acting as he didn't remember what had happened with Bat Azrael and Tim had the idiot ball for most of that arc.

Tim shouldn't be Batman, him as future Batman ended up as well-intentioned extremist or a fascist, and as you said someone should remember he only wanted to be Robin, Damian future as Batman it isn't that good, he'll burn half of Gotham or sell his soul because he isn't as good as Dick or Bruce or he'll quit and become the new Demon head a lot less crazy than his grandfather or with a lot less Lazarus pit baths.

At this point I wouldn't be surprise if Tim and Damian end up being the same age, after all they had a 7 years gap before Flashpoint and now it's 3 years gap.

Maybe Luke Fox as Batman will be like Bat Azrael version 2.0

I'm pretty sure I never said it was an excuse for damian's actions [infact I've been one of the few who've been vocal about Damian facing consequences] It just that it's worth considering and folks are acting like it's never happened before.

I also noted the pro's of Damian quitting and how that reflects on Damian and others. None of those are excuses.

No Bruce's prison's weren't just for gaining info. most of the time it's just a place to keep bad guys just like Damian is doing. It was for Hush and it was for Joker.

It doesn't matter if Battle for the cowl was a mess or not. This TT's story has been criticised as a a mess but I still accept it.
Tim was the one we saw burn Gotham in an effort to kill Damian.
damian going to extremes that at the cost of his own happiness and future [selling his soul] because he wanted to keep gotham safe.
Damian having doubts about he's abilities as batman are good. They line up with the insecurities and pressure faced by Bruce and Dick. I like Damian having insecurities and not measuring up much more than I like the batman Beyond way of Bruce saying that Damian was the best batman he had ever seen Even better than he himself in his prime. [I don't need my favourites to be the best]

Bruce doesn't have a problem with insecurities or people having doubts but he has a problem with fascist [well intentioned or not] he didn't even have a issue with Damian who driven crazy from the suit goes from wiping out to taking over the LOA then back to changing the loA .

Fascist Tim Batman though he did have a problem with and the guy was so far gone that he shot Bruce when Bruce tried to talk sense into him. I don't see bruce passing the mantle to Tim so I don't see YJ doing a arc where they write Tim out of the succession line since he was never. Not since Damian became a thing anyway.

The new timeline says that Tim became Robin the year Damian was born. They are not the same age.

We already have bat Azrael 2.0 in that Dark universe serie done by Synder that Bane's son, Bruce and Azreal. I don't know what I want for Luke but I want him to be different from everything that's come before. It's never good if a character imitates a well established character.
Dick as batman works because he was nothing like bruce same as terry, same as Damian [Just,666,Batboy,Jl] they are all different.

No one wants a knock off.