Damian Wayne: Robin Appreciation 2020

[Zaresh]

Wow.. Can you give me the link? I can't find it by my own :P

For any digital copy, check any digital shop.

[Light of Justice]

For any digital copy, check any digital shop.

okay thank you! I already found it.
And yes indeed so good. Especially 'bat and mouse' one. Now I understand the meaning of 'rock meets rock'

[Light of Justice]

stubborn father and son 1.jpg

Every child and parent ever

[Arctic Cyclist]

Talia also was also a willing part of the Ra's Plan.
Talia loved Bruce
Talia has aided Bruce in his fight
Talia bombed BludHaven
Talia was also a loving mother who loved and cared for her son. She fought Ra's to keep him safe.
Talia was a victim and an abuser.
Talia was abused, brain washed and weaponized by her father
Talia abused, brain washed and weaponized her son
Talia helped save the World

All the above is true and you are correct that she wanted to be free of the league and Ra's.

Writers have been inconsistent in how they use Talia however I prefer how Morrison used her. I think he by counting the ties he did the character a favour and increased the chances of her being used.

In all fairness, when Talia allowed the bombing of Bludhaven she was legitimately insane from Lazarus Pit poisoning. Remember, besides the dozen or so on page deaths we saw as well as all the ones from her childhood we've been told about, Talia also died more times in 72 hours than Ra's had in over 1000+ years. In Emperor Joker, we saw Bruce hit the same level of trauma Talia has and it left him shattered and willing to kill, albeit without the inherent resilience that allows Talia to remember that at her core she has always placed others before her own needs and wants.

When you talk about her seducing a traumatized Jason Todd, it is important to put the event back in context: she's just died several hundred times over a long weekend with her sister and then once more at her father's hands in order to distract Batman. Then Batman burned her father's corpse and scattered the ashes. Jason, however, has been shown to be fully aware of and cognizant of his actions, mostly beyond his trauma, an adult capable of complex moral and ethical decisions, and a good trusted friend who is down for funeral sex. She didn't so much seduce him as say I had a rough week, want to ****? It's nothing at all like the times Selina made out with and attempted to seduce Dick, or every encounter with Ivy ever, or the Harley Quinn movie when Harley kidnapped and raped Dick.

Talia loves her father, yes. She's also shown to have the clinical version of traumatic bonding with her father, just as she's been shown to raise multiple people and successfully teach them how to tell healthy from unhealthy relationships.

It is also now explicitly stated in canon that her staying in a relationship with her father as well as her relationship with Bruce were deliberately manipulated by all of the intelligence agencies in the world as she was the only thing keeping all the villains, her father, and Batman in check. When Talia stops giving a damn, things like Metal and Future's End happen.

[alovelyburn]

It is also now explicitly stated in canon that her staying in a relationship with her father as well as her relationship with Bruce were deliberately manipulated by all of the intelligence agencies in the world as she was the only thing keeping all the villains, her father, and Batman in check. When Talia stops giving a damn, things like Metal and Future's End happen.

Man, I've been reading the CBR boards since the 90s and I have never posted, but now I have to post just to ask...

...wait, where was that stated?

Anyway, yeah Morrison ruined a fantastic character and I still dream of all that going away, thank you for listening.

[dietrich]

In all fairness, when Talia allowed the bombing of Bludhaven she was legitimately insane from Lazarus Pit poisoning. Remember, besides the dozen or so on page deaths we saw as well as all the ones from her childhood we've been told about, Talia also died more times in 72 hours than Ra's had in over 1000+ years. In Emperor Joker, we saw Bruce hit the same level of trauma Talia has and it left him shattered and willing to kill, albeit without the inherent resilience that allows Talia to remember that at her core she has always placed others before her own needs and wants.

When you talk about her seducing a traumatized Jason Todd, it is important to put the event back in context: she's just died several hundred times over a long weekend with her sister and then once more at her father's hands in order to distract Batman. Then Batman burned her father's corpse and scattered the ashes. Jason, however, has been shown to be fully aware of and cognizant of his actions, mostly beyond his trauma, an adult capable of complex moral and ethical decisions, and a good trusted friend who is down for funeral sex. She didn't so much seduce him as say I had a rough week, want to ****? It's nothing at all like the times Selina made out with and attempted to seduce Dick, or every encounter with Ivy ever, or the Harley Quinn movie when Harley kidnapped and raped Dick.

Talia loves her father, yes. She's also shown to have the clinical version of traumatic bonding with her father, just as she's been shown to raise multiple people and successfully teach them how to tell healthy from unhealthy relationships.

It is also now explicitly stated in canon that her staying in a relationship with her father as well as her relationship with Bruce were deliberately manipulated by all of the intelligence agencies in the world as she was the only thing keeping all the villains, her father, and Batman in check. When Talia stops giving a damn, things like Metal and Future's End happen.

Talia's behaviour in Inc was also blamed on a madness. Everything: madness, extreme behaviour, seduction. These all have precedence and we understand the underlining causes for the behaviour.
We know that some deep emotion can never be over come especially those in the early years of one's life which is why Bruce a grown ass man thinks he can end crime by punching bad dudes in the face one at a time.



I'm not sure because we all read the story and saw the movie. My theory is that that talking about it keeps it fresh. It's our fault.

Harley and Selina's sexcapes aren't talked about because their fans don't go blasting creatives who wrote those stories they wish were never written thereby reminding everyone that ....Oh yeah that was a thing.

No one brings up How much they hate bruce timm for ruining Harley by turning her into a would be rapist when fans are discussing Batman the Animated series
No Selina fans bring up how much the dislike ..whateverhisname is for writing Selina forcing herself on Dick when fans are discussing nightwing writers.

By talking about it those same fans are not only reminding us of what we forgot.
We went from talking about the Robin Special and Morrison's great work on Damian and that got derailed and we ended on Winnick a stupid story that no one has talked about or even recalled happened because boo!... Grant Morrison is the worst... 2 pages detailing the bad with talia. keeping it fresh

Anyway now that I've made sure to remind some of what they wish was forgotten I'm done.

[Fergus]

Talia isn't ruined. Current Talia is more of a villain and apparently has orgies but that doesn't ruin her anymore than King bringing back the ex-Sex worker thing for Catwoman.

Morrison is not responsible for how Talia by written stories in 2020 by other writers.

Race shouldn't decide what type of story or how a character is used especial when the character in question was introduced and for decades written as an antagonist.

[Fergus]

stubborn father and son 1.jpg

Every child and parent ever

Yeah this got to me. I think I'm going to enjoy Thompson's writing a lot more than I did Glass. Hopefully this will lead to a positive breakthrough. The emotion between the two and the situation was very well done. It was certainly very familiar.

[shadow6743]

Yeah this got to me. I think I'm going to enjoy Thompson's writing a lot more than I did Glass. Hopefully this will lead to a positive breakthrough. The emotion between the two and the situation was very well done. It was certainly very familiar.

I am looking forward to Thompson writing as well. I think he is perfect for this book. He did a great job with a Venom series called Venom Space Knight. Also he is really good at undercover stories as shown in his mini series Meet the Skrulls. I recommend both of these if anyone want to see Thompson's previous work. While I am looking forward to Thompson's run I will give Glass credit. In this day and age it is really hard to sell a book with new orginal characters and characters that may be considered unknown. But he did it. Regardless of how I view some of his writing choices I will always give him credit for creating a unique and interesting generation of Teen Titans for Damian. Regardless of what he decides to do next I hope he is successful.

[Light of Justice]

Yeah this got to me. I think I'm going to enjoy Thompson's writing a lot more than I did Glass. Hopefully this will lead to a positive breakthrough. The emotion between the two and the situation was very well done. It was certainly very familiar.

I know right! When I read about their 'big collision that will alter DC universe' on solicitation, I imagine their fight will be about Bruce's "no killing or brainwashing villains just sent them to Arkham Asylum and doomed all therapists who are unfortunate enough to work on there" morality versus Damian's "keep villains in prison forever with virus on their body and the antidote is on prison's air so when they escape from prison they'll die, or if it's not working use genie body to wreck their brain" morality and they will insist that their morality is the right one. But on that story we can see that Bruce just want to reach through Damian and make Damian be open and rely to him, and Damian want to talk about his doubt and his fear but he's afraid that Bruce will feel disappointed on him. It's surprisingly........ familiar. It's a conflict that will happen on 90% of parent and child in this world. Including us readers, we can feel connected to their emotions despite the fact that we and them live in completely different world and completely different situation.

But the problem is, they have 'Wayne stubbornness' run through their veins. And without Dick or Alfred as mediator between them, I think it's less possible that their conflict will be 'positive breakthrough'. We are considered lucky enough if there's no fist flying from and on both of them.

stubborn father and son 2.jpg
But hey look at that! Mr. 'I am always right because I am Batman' and little Mr. 'I am simply the best because I was raised by League of Assassin' admit that they are MAYBE wrong. Maybe there's a hope on them XD

[Fergus]

I know right! When I read about their 'big collision that will alter DC universe' on solicitation, I imagine their fight will be about Bruce's "no killing or brainwashing villains just sent them to Arkham Asylum and doomed all therapists who are unfortunate enough to work on there" morality versus Damian's "keep villains in prison forever with virus on their body and the antidote is on prison's air so when they escape from prison they'll die, or if it's not working use genie body to wreck their brain" morality and they will insist that their morality is the right one. But on that story we can see that Bruce just want to reach through Damian and make Damian be open and rely to him, and Damian want to talk about his doubt and his fear but he's afraid that Bruce will feel disappointed on him. It's surprisingly........ familiar. It's a conflict that will happen on 90% of parent and child in this world. Including us readers, we can feel connected to their emotions despite the fact that we and them live in completely different world and completely different situation.

But the problem is, they have 'Wayne stubbornness' run through their veins. And without Dick or Alfred as mediator between them, I think it's less possible that their conflict will be 'positive breakthrough'. We are considered lucky enough if there's no fist flying from and on both of them.

stubborn father and son 2.jpg
But hey look at that! Mr. 'I am always right because I am Batman' and little Mr. 'I am simply the best because I was raised by League of Assassin' admit that they are MAYBE wrong. Maybe there's a hope on them XD

Yes I'm glad that they both recognise their shortcomings and flaws.
They both want to change or fix whatever is wrong
Both are aware that something is wrong - Bruce being able to tell from his son's heart hit me because I know that feeling so well. When you know something is weighing on your kid even without them saying a single word.

All are positives.

Both are stuck. Damian's way isn't ethical. Bruce's way doesn't and hasn't worked but it is backed by the law while Damian is making himself the Judge/Jury/warden.

Damian's good intentions leading to bad decision and actions is understandable. Damian being off the grid for months without BatBruce knowing is appalling. Bruce at this point has failed both as a father and as Batman. That's a trend that's been very popular since Rebirth the guy needs a break and I miss Batman.

[Fergus]

I am looking forward to Thompson writing as well. I think he is perfect for this book. He did a great job with a Venom series called Venom Space Knight. Also he is really good at undercover stories as shown in his mini series Meet the Skrulls. I recommend both of these if anyone want to see Thompson's previous work. While I am looking forward to Thompson's run I will give Glass credit. In this day and age it is really hard to sell a book with new orginal characters and characters that may be considered unknown. But he did it. Regardless of how I view some of his writing choices I will always give him credit for creating a unique and interesting generation of Teen Titans for Damian. Regardless of what he decides to do next I hope he is successful.

Thanks I might check both out, I've recently started getting more into Marvel.

[AmiMizuno]

Yes I'm glad that they both recognise their shortcomings and flaws.
They both want to change or fix whatever is wrong
Both are aware that something is wrong - Bruce being able to tell from his son's heart hit me because I know that feeling so well. When you know something is weighing on your kid even without them saying a single word.

All are positives.

Both are stuck. Damian's way isn't ethical. Bruce's way doesn't and hasn't worked but it is backed by the law while Damian is making himself the Judge/Jury/warden.

Damian's good intentions leading to bad decision and actions is understandable. Damian being off the grid for months without BatBruce knowing is appalling. Bruce at this point has failed both as a father and as Batman. That's a trend that's been very popular since Rebirth the guy needs a break and I miss Batman.

In a sense this is why Dick is more of a father figure to Damian, he loves his dad but Dick is always more stable option. Even if they fix it, Bruce is still mentally stunted

[Jackalope89]

Have to say, I enjoyed Tomasi's last hurrah of the Super Sons in the Robin anniversary special. A fun little story, and the dynamics between Jon and Damian were great.

[Yennefer]

Those panels were soooooooo anticipated... And yes. They hit right in the heart... I hope they won't ruin this wonderful thing next month.