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  1. #421
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Aegis View Post
    Ooooh I like that cover....even though its a reprint and taking a panel from the issue. Its a good one.

    Yeah, I keep looking for Loki in the new releases and cover appearances, and nothing. But hey, at least he's not being fully ignored. Only took till the 4th printing. Lol
    I think he will have a significant part to play in a little while based on both the teases so far in the book, like they would not have had either the bit with Loki trying to talk to Thor in the first issue or this scene, if Loki wasn't going to play SOME part later, and also things Cates has said... but it is a bit frustrating to wait, for sure, after so long of not a whole lot. If it weren't for the delay and cancellations caused by the pandemic it probably would not be so bad, but...
    Last edited by Raye; 09-23-2020 at 06:01 AM.

  2. #422
    Spectacular Member Karabaja's Avatar
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    Holy cow, does he have beautiful, expressive eyes on that panel. Well done, Mr.Coipel.

  3. #423
    Incredible Member Laufeyson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raye View Post
    well, Loki gets to be kinda on the cover for Thor soon



    4th printing variant cover

    Tho obviously still hoping for something in the primary cover vein soonish, as well as storylines to go with it.
    Boy Nic klein is so awesome.
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  4. #424
    Spectacular Member Karabaja's Avatar
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    Klein, Coipel, all the same to my brain #facepalm

  5. #425
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    I mean, to be fair, Coipel does normally do the covers.

    ANd I do really want to have Coipel do a cover with Loki for Thor. Coipel may be best known for Lady Loki and Siege Loki, but when it comes to the current design, Coipel also did one of my favorite Agent of Asgard variant covers:



    So I would really like to see what he does with Loki for a Thor cover.

  6. #426
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    Speaking of variant covers, I saw that Loki was in one of those for the Eternals.

  7. #427
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    I hadn't seen that! went looking, here's the cover:


    https://www.cbr.com/eternals-1-four-variant-covers/

    kind of a weird one, all cutsey, very old-school manga. But I guess, thinking about it, pairing Sprite with Loki makes a lot of sense. both tricksters, both fond of green, and both trapped in the body of a child, though only temporarily in Loki's case, and both have some gender bending going on. And now both written by Kieron Gillen I know variant covers often have nothing to do with the content of the books, and of course the main focus of the book will be the Eternals, but it would be nice to have Loki show up because Gillen.

  8. #428
    Protector of Mortals Prof. Aegis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raye View Post
    I hadn't seen that! went looking, here's the cover:


    https://www.cbr.com/eternals-1-four-variant-covers/

    kind of a weird one, all cutsey, very old-school manga. But I guess, thinking about it, pairing Sprite with Loki makes a lot of sense. both tricksters, both fond of green, and both trapped in the body of a child, though only temporarily in Loki's case, and both have some gender bending going on. And now both written by Kieron Gillen I know variant covers often have nothing to do with the content of the books, and of course the main focus of the book will be the Eternals, but it would be nice to have Loki show up because Gillen.
    Loved the Agent of Asgard #3 variant cover by Coipel as well. I finally was able to get a copy for myself earlier this year. And I agree, I would love to see Coipel draw Loki again on the current Thor series.

    I agree, this Eternals cover is a bit of a old-school style, and is cute, but doesn't do much for me. Yeah I do like Loki paired with Sprite, it makes sense, but wish it was in a different setting and it would be great to see Loki in an issue or storyline because of Gillen's association with Loki before. Plus with the Eternals it would be a great connection. Just have to see what the future issues show us.
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  9. #429
    Incredible Member Laufeyson's Avatar
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    Lol, that's because Nic Klein, Olivier Coipell, and Kim Jacinto all of them have same inker and coloriest so their works are resembling each other. Kind like Pepe Larraz and RB Silva art looks like Stuart Immonen because they had same colorist which is Marte Garcia.
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  10. #430
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    So, random thought, probably not original, but it's new to me...

    In old tales, sometimes there's a story about a lie that is only true so long as it's secret isn't discovered. A woman who can't remain with her love if her secret is discovered, because she isn't human and isn't supposed to be here, for instance. Or a child who was replaced by faeries with a bundle of twigs wrapped in his baby blanket with a seeming cast over it, and lived a childhood and a youth with none the wiser, until the secret was discovered and he collapsed into a bundle of twigs!

    Loki has kind of done the legendary equivalent of that. A little blue giant-child, adopted by an Aesir god, willed himself to be the 'son' of that new adoptive father *so hard* that he became a little Aesir boy, no visibly different than the other Aesir around him, even though everyone *knew* he was a giant, none of them could see it or prove it...

    He lied so damn hard, he *became a god.*

    Surely, over the centuries, some have tried to prove that he's not a god. Not really the son of Asgard, but a son of Jotunheim. But none have succeeded. His lie is strong.

    Indeed, he has many lies. One lie is that he is the father of death herself, and she's perplexed at this, but accepts it with a shrug of indifference, because she cannot remember a time before she existed, or having parents at all, so who is she to say it is not so? Stranger things have happened.

    His adoptive mother, Freyja, wise in the ways of seithr, is amused and somewhat amazed that Loki Liesmith has so well learned the lessons of seemings, such that he can make a lie into a truth, like spinning gold from straw. Truly the grandest alchemy of all.

  11. #431
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    Well the thing with Marvel gods, at least in some stories particularly more recently, and Agent of Asgard leaned heavily into this, is that being a god has less to do with what you are in terms or Aesir, Vanir, Jotun etc. and more to do with the stories surrounding you, and how they fit into the mythology of a particular pantheon. I know sometimes all Aesir get called gods, but... I don't think that's strictly accurate, i think only the ones that have a mythology surrounding them, a defined role in the mythology, really count, the rest are just a powerful and near immortal race that kinda have first dibs on becoming gods should a role open up, and fill background roles for their stories. And those stories are why the roles everybody fills are so important, and why it seems they tend to get stuck to a role, and have trouble changing course. Why Loki felt like he was bound to be the bad guy even though he no longer wanted to be, until quite recently, when the roles all got jumbled up and changed hands all over the place, including his, it would seem. It seems the story remaining intact is more important than their free will. But it does mean that, though Aesir and Vanir tended to get tapped for particular roles by default in the Norse pantheon, that other races can technically step into the roles, in fact we may be seeing a human becoming a Norse god right now, with Jane. sure, it's early yet and as Valkyrie, she's filling a relatively minor role in the pantheon compared to Thor or Odin and the like, but still.

    Anyway, I'm just saying that I don't think him 'lying' his way into godhood is all that unusual, though, yes, with the time travel retcon, he did set about doing that purposely, and it does fit with his god of lies deal. But that was still just him playing the system, by claiming one of the Norse pantheon roles, whether he realized that at the time or not, rather than it being a lie of particular power. And we actually still don't know why he changed appearance, it could be something like in the movies where it was Freyja or Odin that changed it for him, at least initially, or it could be something he did himself after he began learning magic, I mean illusions and changing his appearance is one of Loki's specialties, or just something that happens when you get absorbed into a pantheon (in the What If issue recently where Thor was adopted by Laufey and the Norse pantheon was destroyed, though he never achieved the same height as frost giants, Thor eventually became blue as well, so...)

    I do still think that they have to fit into the narrative of one of the main pantheons already existing, whether it's Greek, or Norse, or Egyptian or whatever else, so like, a human can't truly become a god , like Doom has tried to do, unless they can attach themselves to one of the pantheons

  12. #432
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    i have no idea what this means

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  13. #433
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raye View Post
    Well the thing with Marvel gods, at least in some stories particularly more recently, and Agent of Asgard leaned heavily into this, is that being a god has less to do with what you are in terms or Aesir, Vanir, Jotun etc. and more to do with the stories surrounding you, and how they fit into the mythology of a particular pantheon. I know sometimes all Aesir get called gods, but... I don't think that's strictly accurate, i think only the ones that have a mythology surrounding them, a defined role in the mythology, really count, the rest are just a powerful and near immortal race that kinda have first dibs on becoming gods should a role open up, and fill background roles for their stories.
    That might be the case for Aesir/Vanir/Heliopolitans/Olympians/etc. but I get the impression that Loki, being a giant, is kind of unique, having kind of brazened his way past the bouncer into a formerly-exclusive club to which giants, goblins, trolls, dwarves, etc. were explicitly not invited.

    Maybe it's just my desire to see him be something unique, even among the already unusual circles he travels in. A self-made god. With a family that's as real as he makes it. Quite different than, say, Sif, or Baldr, who always were, and remain, 'gods,' regardless of what mortals know or believe about them.

    That said, I sometimes wonder if maybe Asgard would be a lot different if there were only a few dozen actual Aesir and Vanir *gods* in the city, and the hundreds of nameless faceless schmucks running around day to day are actually *Einherjar,* the spirits-made-flesh of ancient warriors gathered over the millenia to serve as Asgard's armies. It would certainly change the tone of Asgard, and of godhood itself, if it was a rare thing, and the vast majority of Asgard's population were not actual 'gods' (just insanely capable warriors with literal centuries of fighting experience, bonus, from many different cultures, as the Valkyries may have chosen a fair number of warriors who impressed them on the field of battle who were fighting *against* the Northmen they were there to watch...).

    Anywho, you clearly know your stuff and thanks for giving me some food for thought!

  14. #434
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    Huh, so Valkyrie is either just massively delayed, with like 6 months or more between issues, or.... i dunno, backups in Thor or Avengers?

    As for Loki being unique, i mean, I would actually argue Surtur, Ymir, and Laufey are part of the pantheon, and are gods, or at least demi-gods, just... not the ones humans worshipped, or permitted to live in Asgard cus they were the bad guys. But they are still a really important part of the narrative, and I'm sure they're a pretty big deal in their own realms, I'd count them, personally, even if the Asgardians won't.

    But yeah, i do get what you're saying about certain races being kind of excluded from the elite club of the Asgardian gods, and it is very unusual for Loki to be included among them, considering, i was just saying i don't think it's unusual according to the rules, it's unusual for cultural reasons. I mean, the Asgardians are kinda racist against giants, (and vice versa) tbh, and that is a large part of why it is considered so unusual. Technically I think what I said above about filling a role in the story being the important bit applies, but clearly the Aesir and Vanir make up the vast majority, and their biases against other races help keep it that way. I know, the giants have frequently attacked Asgard and Midgard, but... the Asgardians have attacked them, too. Hell, hunting giants is treated as a sport, pretty much. They think absolutely nothing about just going out an smiting random giants. The Asgardians (and this may have spread to humans because of the mythology) seem to think of them as just bad by default, or as little more than beasts, and killing giants and some others like trolls is treated like going hunting, which I am sure just creates a neverending feedback loop, where the Asgardians hunt the giants for sport, the giants get mad and retaliate, this plays into the narrative the Asgardians have of the giants being violent brutes, and on and on. I mean, they do seem to fit the stereotype a lot of the time, but then there's Gus in Strange Academy, and Loki, though a bad guy in the past, did not fit the brutish beast stereotype, so clearly there is some room for them to be something else if they are given a chance. These attitudes will of course make it harder for any giants to have a crack at getting one of the 'god' spots, witout being literally adopted into the royal family. And I don't think Loki has entirely escaped this. When he's well behaved, they seem to let his presence slide, but when Thor or Odin are mad at him, they'll sometimes bring up the fact that he's technically a giant as a way to rub it in his face that he doesn't really belong, or even just say it as if it were a slur. For example:



    But there are others, from both Thor and Odin, that was just one i knew how to find easily. While I get that he's mad because of Loki's actions, not just because he's a frost giant, he clearly is bringing up Loki's Jotunn blood as a way of othering him, and it's clear that he thinks Loki is lesser because of it.

    And it's kind of a 'depends on the writer' situation, with how 'god' is defined in the MU. some writers seem to equate Asgardian with being a god, others make a distinction between the true gods and the random nameless citizens of Asgard. With the recent emphasis on roles, it seems to be that they are drawing a distinction between true gods (the ones with roles to play) and the rest of the Asgardians, but they haven't really spelled it out explicitly.

    And I still think there's room for Loki to be something special, there was all that treasing about his parentage, that he may not, in fact, be 100% frost giant, and that other half may be something more special, like an Elder God or something, but no idea if Cates or anyone else will pick up that thread.

  15. #435
    Spectacular Member Karabaja's Avatar
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    I guess the whole issue with Loki looking like an Asgardian exists because originally, in the 60s (and 70s?) the Jotuns were not blue. And they were depicted to be much smaller than today. Basically, they looked like very big, brutish Neandertalish guys. If a baby was born small among them, it wouldn't be that much of a stretch for it to be able to fit among the Asgardians. With time, the artists started picturing them with blue skin and the size of a building.

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