Loki Appreciation 2020

[Raye]

Just leaving this here, future soundtrack song for sure:

[Rosebunse]

Ewing knows that if he writes Loki again, he'll over take whatever book he's in.

But yes, covers often lie when it comes to Loki. This might be a good time to figure out just how his resurrections actually work.

[Karabaja]

Since this is Aaron writing, Loki's moral duality/ambiguity is expected. You never know how he'll turn in his books.

[Raye]

Maybe. Maybe the deal he signed with Hela still exists and will be brought up. Though the Laufey thing was a very unusual circumstance, with the Valkyries being dead, and all, and by all appearances the whole resurrection thing never kicked in there at all, he did it it himself, with an assist from Heimdall's sword and the Casket of Ancient Winters. Just saying, the circumstances there means it can't be used as being representative of what normally happens, because there were too many variables that were messing with the natural order of things. But I still think the scenario that best fits what happened there is that if the reincarnation thing is even still a thing (not a guarantee, maybe it got revoked when he made that deal with Karnilla, maybe it was just a one time thing and he was just mistaken about how it all worked) it only kicks in when he is destined for Hel, not Valhalla. But he died a heroic death, so was Valhalla bound, but then all the Valkyries up and died, so he could not make the trip, and he managed to magick himself back together again before Jane took on the role. I just wish we could have it stated plainly in print, rather than having to piece it together from a bunch of hints and clues, and preferably from Jane/Karnilla/Brunnhilde's mouth so it can be more reliable. Maybe Jane will see he's in a weird limbo state where he's both alive AND owed passage to Valhalla. But with Hel being mentioned rather than Valhalla, I am betting the deal with Karnilla, which happened suspiciously off panel, will be brought up.

and co-writing, though I am guessing Aaron will have a bit more control here than he did with Ewing, where Ewing's own stuff was very apparent (like Blue Streak and his gang, the inclusion of Lisa, Horse's speech etc.) but I think Aaron is kinda doing more plot on this while the co-writers script, at least if how things went with Ewing were an indication.

[Rosebunse]

I'm beginning to come around go the role switcheroo thing.

One thing I know won't amount to anything is Loki's favorite color, green. Green has taken on new meaning in Marvel with the Green Door, the One Below All, and even Krakoa with its focus on plants and nature.

Now, we know that green was chosen as Loki's color because it, and yellow, are good opposite colors to the primary colors in Thor's costume. They were also easy colors to get inks for back in the day. Same thing with other characters who are decked out in green, mot of whom are villains. Doom, Molecule Man, Lex Luthor, Brainiac, Nightmare, Hela, Morgan Le Fey, Toad, and a bunch of others. You don't see a ton of heroes in it.

This means that in comics, green was already a pretty sinister color.

What does this mean for Loki? Does this mean a fall back to villainy just because of a color? Probably not, but it does make me wonder his involvement going forward, especially with the writers involved.

[Raye]

I think the roles thing is pretty well established now, they may not have put it to the page explicitly, but Loki laid things out in his death monologue, and we've seen:

-Thor taking Odin's place as All-Father
-Sif taking the place of Heimdall as the keeper of the Bifrost
-Balder taking the place of Karnilla as King of the Norns/keeper of fate
-Karnilla joining Hela as co-ruler in Hel as keeper of the dead (after Bader and very briefly Angela had filled the position)
-Jane taking up the role of Valkyrie (presumably just the first and more will follow, but still, it was an important role that needed filling)
-and, most recently, it seems Tyr is probably stepping into Loki's old role as God of Chaos, the betrayer and adversary for them all

in a smaller role, it also appears as though there is a shakeup with the Warriors 3, with Volstagg taking on a more administrative role, while Fandrall and Hogun are joined by Hildegarde in his place. Not quite clear on whose role Volstagg is stepping into exactly, but.... still, it shows there is a shakeup going on.

It's clearly a moment of change in the Asgardian pantheon, with many roles changing hands. A big game of role musical chairs with many of the big players stepping into a new role, and like, I don't think there were really that many big 'official' roles to begin with, that about covers the big ones. But the gaping hole of Thor's old role of hero/protector remains vacant, due to him becoming all-Father, but not wanting to let go of his old role. But all the above, aside from maybe Volstagg, are now out of the running for it. Now, with recent events in Thor, it may be that Beta Ray Bill could take it, but while he is worthy to lift Mjolnir, I don't see him fitting into the role (the hammer is a symbol of the role, but i think lifting it is not the sole thing that determines who fills the role) that well because he's not Asgardian or Midgardian, or even from any of the other realms, so he just doesn't quite fit, since his focus has never been Asgard or Midgard, really. Especially if Tyr IS the new adversary, since part of what makes him fit that role is his familial connection, which is lost if Bill is in the role. Though he could work as a temporary fillin, like Jane did. And Loki is still kinda lacking a new role. Yeah he's king of the Frost Giants, but I don't think that's really part of the hierarchy, that position had been vacant for a long time before, and I don't think was really that important, and the one he decided for himself, where he is looking out for outcasts, I see as more of a personal focus and him looking for a role to fill rather than part of the official Asgardian hierarchy. So I think he's still kinda without an official purpose in terms of the big Asgardian pantheon hierarchy of roles.

I would not want Loki's colours to change if he takes on Thor's old role, I think it would kinda stop feeling like Loki. And I don't see why it would mean he has to stay a villain just because of colours. Like, Rogue, Jean Grey, Vision (with some red, but still) and Iron Fist are also green/yellow, it's not a colour scheme reserved solely for villains even if it is popular for them. Sometimes a colour is just a colour. And Loki could just add in a bit more white, which has been a colour in a few of his costumes over the years already, tone down the black some, and it would look a lot less sinister. tho I like the black, personally, especially if he sticks with having his hair showing. Also, if Tyr is the new adversary, and colours need to be opposite, then technically since Tyr's costume is blue, gold, gray, and brown(which we can kinda scratch the brown and gray from for the purposes of this since they don't really have 'opposites' in colour theory), then Loki's costume should actually be like, orange and purple which.... like, ew. Alternately, Tyr need to change his colours to red and purple, which would look nicer than orange purple, and I mean, Magneto made it work, but again, he'd not really feel like Tyr any more. Some characters can get away with changing colour schemes, sure, (Magneto again, for instance) but generally I think characters just tend to stuck with the colour schemes they were created with regardless of any alignment changes, since the colours are also there to aid in making them easily recognizable.

My personal hope is that the shift in the pantheon is because the roles themselves need to change in response to what is going on in the realms, (though apparently this change is often veeeeeeeeeeeeery sloooooow, considering Odin held onto his role for a million+ years. though Thor had his for less) so being the holder of a role doesn't necessarily mean you have to be exactly like the last person who held it, or dress like them. What's important is just that you fill a fairly broad place in the story, the details can vary. So far Thor's not looking too promising in this regard, kinda showing Odin 2.0 tendencies, but hopefully that is just some growing pains and he will learn to make the role his own, like Jane has been doing. (we haven't really seen enough of what the rest have done with their new roles to say how similar or not they are to their predecessors)

[Rosebunse]

I think what I meant was, how could they connect a chaotic character like Loki to the green One Below All? Especially with Ewing having the reigns.

[Raye]

I don't think they need to, it would seem out of place and just clutter things up needlessly imo. LOTS of characters are or wear green, and they aren't all connected to it, just the Gamma powered ones. The Green Door is green because the Hulk/gamma radiation (at least in the comics, as far as I know it is invisible in real life) is green, it doesn't have to mean anything for Loki or any of the other characters that like to wear green. Not everything needs to be connected. I know the Green Door stuff adds in some mystical elements to the Hulk, but still. I mean there was that one panel where Loki was all Hulked out or whatever, but I think that was just for fun, or it was referencing an upcoming story that is either STILL upcoming, like in Avengers or something, with the stuff going on with Jen or something, or it got dropped. But even then, if it is related to what he said in Dr Strange and his 'all the colours of rage' tease, I suspect he will not be the only one affected and the connection won't be anything really specific to him.

*edited to add - I don't mean to be a wet blanket about this, I just am not getting why there would need to be a connection just cus green, and not even his body (ok, he has green eyes, but still) just his clothes. Yeah his magic is green, but him doing that magic also goes back thousands of years, and is presumably Asgardian in origin that draws upon Yggdrasil or similar most of the time, you'd think he would have realized at some point over like a thousand years of doing magic if it was drawing on the power of the One Below All. But.... It did occur to me that Absorbing Man is in Immortal Hulk, and he did get his powers from Loki (he even mentions this last issue) so maybe that could connect somehow

[Raye]

It's that time again.



Had a thought about the upcoming Valkyrie appearance, and the possible Loki joins the Avengers thing. So, what dawned on me is that if (big if, I know) it is a new team of people willing to work with Loki for whatever reason they may have, then this may be setup for her being one of those people. Especially when you consider Aaron is co-writing it. Double-especially when you consider that Mephisto is the big bad in both Valkyrie AND in the Avengers. I bet you anything the Mephisto stuff in Valkyrie feeds into Avengers, and brings Valkyrie along with it, that could be why Aaron is even co-writing, so that the Mephisto stuff lines up. So it could be doing several things here, tying the Mephisto threads together, bringing Jane to the team, and giving Jane a reason to be like 'ok, I'll join your team rather than Thor's' with Loki. Also, Mephisto, as we have discussed previously, would be a perfect bad guy for Loki to face off against. Someone he's dealt with before, and who would more than likely try to tempt him into returning to his old ways. So if Loki's team ends up facing off against him, that would be great. But with Mephisto looking likely, then that also may point to Robbie being a member, due to Ghost Rider stuff, and if he is, then that could mean the Penance Stare I thought should have come back in the Celestial arc was being saved for here, so people have an additional reason to believe Loki's face turn is legit this time.

Also, thought of the perfect additional member to add to the team, assuming both Tony and Carol are there: Rhodey. duh. I know he's still dealing with his PTSD issues, but he can still contribute. He would be there for them, not Loki, which is fine, and could still fill out the team in an interesting way. So I guess with the Jane stuff, that brings my hypothetical team to Tony, (cus of what happened in Loki's solo, deal's a deal) Carol, (assuming something happens in Star that makes her willing to give him a chance) Squirrel Girl, Kate, (both because they are already friends of Loki, and of Tony in Doreen's case) Rhodey, (friend of Tony, boyfriend of Carol) Jane (as with Carol, assuming something happens in this upcoming story that makes her willing to give Loki a chance), maybe Robbie (Mephisto connection because Ghost Rider stuff). 7 or 8 seems a good size, I don't think i would want to go any larger than that, that's the same size as the current team (who would have to bring in some new members as well to plug holes from departed members, but haven't given that much thought).

and just a disclaimer, I think Loki on the Avengers will probably happen, there have been too many separate instances of foreshadowing across several different books for it to not happen, imo, even if the hows and whys of it are up for debate. But I'm not that confident about my picks for teammates, really, and won't be like super surprised or disappointed if i'm wrong about that. But picking them is kind of fun while we wait, since it will likely be several months yet at least. Maybe it will be just Loki added to the existing team, but with Thor right now, i think that would cause... problems... and there is Tony's whole 'never go double god' thing for exactly that reason. So either they follow his advice and split the team, or they don't, and go the mega-drama route. And I just prefer the second team option. I like the idea of having a second Avengers book again, one that's actually official, unlike West Coast Avengers where they were kinda using the name, but weren't really an official Avengers team. We have SIX X-Men books, come on, we can do 2 Avengers teams. But speaking of X-Men, I think Wolverine could also be fun as a potential member, but I don't think the way things are with the X-Men right now would allow for that, they seem to be pulling away from the rest of the MU, so... but maybe down the line once they break free of their cult programming.

[Rosebunse]

I actually see Wolverine joining rhe Avengers as more of a possibility, especially with what's happened in his own book. We also have him joining the FF for Empyre.

But good idea about Mephisto. It could also help lead to more conflict with Thor if he is against Loki being on the team.

[Raye]

oh yeah, I forgot he was on with the FF for Empyre... and I haven't gotten around to reading the first issue of Wolverine yet (have it, just am a little behind) so not sure what happened there, but Logan is one of the more stubborn and individualistic of the X-Men for sure, so if anyone is going to break from the groupthink there, it's probably going to be him. If he does break from the X-Men, I'd definitely like to see him and Loki on the same team

[Rosebunse]

I honestly just want a Prodigy and Loki romance of some sort. I know, I know, but I sort of want it.

[Raye]

I wouldn't mind Prodigy, though I've always found him kind of bland, i'd like someone with a bit more personality, someone who Loki could really have fun with.

Okay.... I've read Star. Loki was not in it, sadly, mostly focused on Wanda I think trying to subtly feel out Star's intentions, but, as the solicit released this month hinted at, the Black Order have entered the game, in fact they were in last issue as well, just in disguise.

And now I've got more speculation. I think the above about how a team could be founded on dealing with Mephisto is still a strong possibility, and would totally work, and I think the Valkyrie arc will feed into that regardless of what happens with Loki. But now it also occurs to me that it could also build a team out of the Infinity Stones. I know technically that would most likely be called the Infinity Watch, but we can fudge things and make it an Avengers team with this just being a catalyst... OR we do this story with the stones, then that leads to an Avengers team afterward. And uh, I may have kinda went DEEP with this one when rambling to my friend about it earlier... (been nursing this theory since earlier this afternoon, but held off on posting it in case Star threw it all out the window somehow. It didn't, though didn't really do anything to support it either)



If we build off of the Infinity-whatever stuff from Duggan and then Star, then you could get a solid team going with people who have gotten caught up in some way with the Infinity Stones since Warlock gave them sentience, and Loki is the only character to become involved with both of the stones we've seen since then, not to mention he was caught up in this before that as well. So it would totally make sense for him to be a central part of this. On the hero side of things, in addition to Loki, we also have Hector, in possession of the Time Stone, Wolverine, Scarlet Witch, maybe Jessica Jones, and soon to be Captain Marvel. (and Titania, briefly, but... in a very minor way.) If we assume Star goes bad at the end of this, as one of the covers seems to suggest, or like, Jessica Jones goes back to street level detectiving, that's 6. The perfect number for an Infinity Stone team, one person for each stone. Now, I think it's possible Jessica Jones or some others could be dropped in favor of another character, but it does kinda feel like maybe Marvel is putting together a team here, even if all the members are not revealed yet.

And then you could have a team of baddies on the other side, with Star at the center and the Black Order as the other members, based on the cover for the final issue of the mini, which, combined with the solicit and the most recent issue, seems to point to the Black Order trying to capture her, but she may end up leading them instead? The Black Order on that cover does not include Supergiant though, despite her being resurrected for the most recent version of the team (seriously, why do they keep using them as cannon fodder? they are some of the most promising villains created in recent years, they should be kept around and treated like badasses) so the total, including Star, is also six. Star, Ebony Maw, Corvus Glaive, Proxima Midnight, Black Swan, and Black Dwarf. Star certainly stands out with her red and white overtly superhero-ey look vs their overall black and white typical villain scheme, but in a kind of interesting way. And then it hit me. Reality Stone. Which is now red. Like the star on her costume. A star with 5 points. So Reality at the center, imagine the star on her costume laid flat, around her neck, other 5 stones at the points? and that reminded me of something. Remember this?



So like, picture that but with Star at the center for the villain team, Black Order at the points, and I would like to think Loki as the focus for the hero side, even though he does not have a stone (...yet?) to mirror this YA scene. Because of the stones different colours, you could end up with something like this, though the stone in the middle would necessitate fudging that some. It could also work with the thing where the stones kind of feed off the next one in the chain, since the pentagram, if you think of it as a line, is a continuous pattern, so they could maintain that aspect where they feed off their counterpart, the fact that one is in the center muddles this some, though, but the 5 point star works with Star's costume, and a 6 point star would cause some problems, because of it's association with Judaism, and it is not a continuous line, either. Sure the 5 point star is associated with things too, Satanism, Wicca, general magic type stuff, but fewer are likely to get offended by that because it is more general.

The Reality Stone is probably the most powerful of the stones, so it would make sense for it to be a focal point like this villain side, though traditionally that has been the Soul Stone, (which, even though it has not been revealed yet, could be the focus for the hero side since making Hector/Time the focus doesn't quite feel right to me, but I mean, I guess, maybe he could be) and then if you arrange the other stones around that focal point, powering them all up. Maybe any stone could go in the center, depending on what you are trying to do. I mean, if they are all embedded in people, not like you can jam them in a glove, you HAVE to form a team if you want to unite them and combine their power. If you kill someone to get their stone, it's probably just gonna fly off and find a new host rather than allow itself to be jammed in a gauntlet or similar. So you have two teams, one trying to collect them, for bad purposes, maybe trying to force the stones to bond with the Black Order somehow, the Reality Stone might be able to do that, the other trying to collect them/the hosts for good, and each is trying to thwart the other, similar to what happened in the Soul World when Loki assembled that Avengers team.... you know, before he stole all the stones..... That might have been foreshadowing, though I think the specific team members, Loki aside since he's been consistently involved in all this, will probably change. I'm kinda picturing a situation where Loki, Wanda, Carol, Jessica try their best to stop her, or put her on the right path, but it's a bit of a downer ending and they fail, so they're like, they know they have to band to gather to stop this from getting worse. Go get Wolverine cus he was involved in the Hector situation, as well as Hector himself, bam, new team formed. My preference would be to have Kelly Thompson write it.

*edited to add - Read Avengers. Mephisto looking promising still as a catalyst but now I see it may not be a case of having to choose between Mephisto OR the Infinity Stones, it may be Mephisto AND the Infinity Stones. Or maybe him using the time gem there was just a one time thing, considering Hector has it in the present.

[Raye]

So looks like Marvel/Disney may have some new footage on March 5th for the Disney Plus stuff, including Loki, presumably. Though Loki is much earlier in production than any of the others so remains to be seen if it's just another 5 second clip, because they don't have a whole lot filmed, let alone FX and stuff. So will have to keep an eye out for that and see.



Also, that reminds me, (did i mention this before?) I saw some speculation, floating around based on a few little things, that Loki's show will be introducing Kang to the MCU, that the TVA will have Loki try and hunt him down. And that Kang will be the next Big Bad for the Avengers movies (implying Loki isn't successful, or abandons the mission, but whatever) that all the MCU stuff kinda feeds into, the next Thanos, which could be interesting for both Loki's show and the MCU, I think. It's a bit hard to top Thanos, in terms of sheer destructive capability and the scope of his actions. But Kang while not as overtly destructive could have similarly wide reaching effects, though he'd probably be a bit more confusing to follow, cus time travel. But it was mostly just speculation, though I think it could make sense.

OK so i read Wolverine, and yeah, I think Rosebunse may be right that it could lead to him being on the Avengers, in fact, thinking on it now, I think he looks pretty damn likely. Basically two things happened that could contribute to that. First, he (once again) lost his memory due to a mind meddling enemy. I am sure he will probably get it back before too long... For one, the mystery of his past is no longer a pull for the readers, WE know his past, even if he doesn't at the moment, so having an amnesia plot long term isn't going to add much there. And I mean, they have a literal backup in Cerebro, if all else fails. Though I would prefer not to have to resort to that, because it may be that if he gets through this on his own, this might shake things up in his brain and help break him free of the cultish thing going on with the X-Men. This is assuming his mind wasn't permanently tampered with in a serious way (altered memories, blatant personality tweaks) when he got resurrected before, which has always been a nagging worry at the back of my mind with the ones that got resurrected in particular. Maybe not anything too overt, but something that leads to them being more passive and accepting of the oddness of the situation. Anyway, getting off track there, the second thing is that he's gotten himself all mixed up with Dracula's shenanigans, and assuming it ties into the stuff Avengers has been doing with Dracula, that could lead him right to the Avengers. And if Loki gets included again, in what is kind of becoming a grand guest spot tour of the MU, well, that kind of solidifies the link to Loki that's been established recently, and give a reason to have Loki and Logan on the same squad. I have to admit, at first that familiarity between them made no sense at all, considering they had somehow managed to go all this time without saying two words to each other, and all of a sudden acting like they had known each other (though not necessarily on the best of terms) for years, but that retcon in Loki's book makes it all work. (Wolverine just forgot he knew Loki until he regained his memories, and I guess Loki was too busy being his worst self during that time to bother with him) and even if it didn't, at least we have that Infinity Watch thing establishing a relationship in the present, even tho that would have that first meeting still make no sense. So bad start, but worked out pretty well.

But that means we now have several things possibly tying new characters to Avengers antagonists, or other plot points, in addition to Loki just flat out asking to join, (and being turned down, but I don't think he's given up) and being told by Phoenix Wolverine from the future that he had to do some more Assembling. Dracula could bring in Wolverine (in addition to the Phoenix Wolverine thing mentioned just now), Mephisto could bring in Jane, and then we have the iffy case of the Infinity Stones, if do end up playing a part in the present, considering that Mephisto was mucking with the Time Stone in the past, and the other stones were also playing a part in the distant past, which could bring in Loki, possibly Scarlet Witch or one or more of the Infinity Stone wielders, and also Wolverine again. And Loki's being linked to all of these things, as well as a couple current Avengers members, in a variety of guest spots too. He's had two major things linking him to Wolverine recently, and now the history goes back like 200 years. He got linked with Tony in his solo, where he even asked to join the team. Now he's got an upcoming guest spot in Jane's book. And he's possibly going to be interacting with Carol in Star soon. It really does feel like they're kinda drawing characters in for a second team. (also the stuff with Namor going on elsewhere, but i don't think that will lead to a new team so much, tho it may lead to Agents of Atlas being brought under the Avengers umbrella as an officially sanctioned associated team. Also the Moon Knight stuff, but at least so far Loki's not been linked to that)

Also, I got a discount thing for that Serial Box thing, so i decided to go for it.... it's allright, not great, but not bad. It became apparent not too far in that this is neither the MCU nor the comics continuity, it's it's own thing, where it kinda borrows a bit from both, but mostly the comics. As far as Loki specifically goes, it assumes that Loki has not undergone the character development of the past 10 years, but he's also not been as bad a villain as he was before that, so he's just kind of a selfish scumbag rogue. It has some pacing problems and gets sidetracked at times, but it's fun enough, and actually ends up leading to an interesting scenario once all the plot threads get all connected, where as of the most recent episode (with 3 more remaining) It's up to Loki to save the day because everyone else is kinda out of it.

[Raye]

ok yeah, 3 times in a row but I just stumbled across this super cute cosplay:





https://www.picuki.com/media/2050746836605677669
https://www.picuki.com/media/2059726449577552041

I think they're Russian? Not sure where the other Young Avengers got to, but Loki and Kate look good! I'd be down for a just Loki and Kate teamup in the comics.

edited to add: eeeee! https://www.etsy.com/ca/listing/6925...home_active_12