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  1. #331
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raye View Post
    Nice! that all in one omnibus type deal? I got myself a lava lamp to look pretty on my desk, some fancy soaps, and a bath robe... and cough drops cus I actually got the virus, a few weeks back, and though I had a very minor case and recovered fine and technically no longer have it, the cough persists, and it is annoying. (not for Mothers day specifically, cus i have no children, but... it did arrive today, so close) Sucks about your post office, though, so hopefully it gets through!
    Oh my goodness, I didn't know you were sick, thank God you're on the mend

    I like the idea of Loki having his own enchanted weapon, lifting mjolnir is very cool but still a side bonus for me. My question is, does enchanted have to equate to "worthiness". It did with mjolnir where Thor was concerned and that has applied equally to anyone (trying to) lift the hammer, I mean Loki and Thor are very different people with different shortcomings. Is it necessary to shape Loki into the Thor-worthiness mould? For the purpose of the narrative, perhaps but I can't help wanting something that's simply Loki's. Forgetting the number of people that have lifted the hammer to date, I love the idea of a weapon that only Loki can wield in a similar fashion to mjolnir as it's based on Loki's very personal journey, unmatched in the Marvel Universe.

  2. #332
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    Quote Originally Posted by rpmaluki View Post
    Oh my goodness, I didn't know you were sick, thank God you're on the mend

    I like the idea of Loki having his own enchanted weapon, lifting mjolnir is very cool but still a side bonus for me. My question is, does enchanted have to equate to "worthiness". It did with mjolnir where Thor was concerned and that has applied equally to anyone (trying to) lift the hammer, I mean Loki and Thor are very different people with different shortcomings. Is it necessary to shape Loki into the Thor-worthiness mould? For the purpose of the narrative, perhaps but I can't help wanting something that's simply Loki's. Forgetting the number of people that have lifted the hammer to date, I love the idea of a weapon that only Loki can wield in a similar fashion to mjolnir as it's based on Loki's very personal journey, unmatched in the Marvel Universe.
    A wavy dagger or slim curved sword (more like a fencing weapon than the sort of bulky stuff favored by his Aesir and Giant-ish kin) formed out of his own hate and sense of betrayal by all the things that have happened in his life (not the least of them, his own betrayals *by himself* as he's quite often his own worst enemy, and bollixes up his own best chances) could be neat, and it could sink into his body when not in use, or surge forth, perhaps even of it's own volition when he's angry or feels threatened, maybe even when he's not consciously aware that he's in danger, and it sometimes coming as a bit of a surprise / warning to him... It's not indestructible, but since it's magical and made from his own essence, he can re-absorb it and re-conjure it in a hand, undamaged, in the blink of an eye, if it's broken (or stolen away, at any range), so he can't really be 'disarmed' of it. On the other hand, it's built from his spirit and sense of being wronged by life and outrage and all that, so someone who could pacify or soothe him somehow, with a psychic attack or whatever, might be able to make it dissipate and him lack the anger to re-summon it!
    Last edited by Sutekh; 05-10-2020 at 03:32 AM.

  3. #333
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    Tho i agree a sword or dagger fits him better, what you're describing is old Loki. Loki right now is not driven by 'hate and betrayal' he's put that behind him, or at least is trying very hard to, and I think it would be nice to reinforce the growth he's undergone rather than go back to his old motivations that led him down a bad path. His motivations right now have more to do with trying to escape his old role, or fate in general, and that will likely continue. It's likely he has a good role now, so it's a step up for sure, and I think he'd realize that, but it still means his destiny is not really his own. I am not sure how you could use that to power a weapon though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Karabaja View Post
    Good you're feeling better. My several colleagues were affected too, and my kids' nanny and her family, and they are all fine now. It will be all okay and I'm fairly sure I had it too, though I turned out to be negative on PCR testing. I can't wait for serological tests.
    It's an omnibus I've ordered pity it won't include the Axis parts which are not AoA. But nevermind. I haven't had a print version of a Marvel book in a looooooong time.

    ow you got me thinking; who is currently more powerful magician, Loki or Strange? Early back in the day, during their first clash, there was no doubt Loki had the upper hand, it was right there on panel. But now they seem pretty much equal.
    honestly they are probably about equal, but they utilize magic in different ways, so it is a bit hard to do a straight comparison, and of course Loki is also a god, so has that going for him on top of the magic.

    Quote Originally Posted by rpmaluki View Post
    Oh my goodness, I didn't know you were sick, thank God you're on the mend

    I like the idea of Loki having his own enchanted weapon, lifting mjolnir is very cool but still a side bonus for me. My question is, does enchanted have to equate to "worthiness". It did with mjolnir where Thor was concerned and that has applied equally to anyone (trying to) lift the hammer, I mean Loki and Thor are very different people with different shortcomings. Is it necessary to shape Loki into the Thor-worthiness mould? For the purpose of the narrative, perhaps but I can't help wanting something that's simply Loki's. Forgetting the number of people that have lifted the hammer to date, I love the idea of a weapon that only Loki can wield in a similar fashion to mjolnir as it's based on Loki's very personal journey, unmatched in the Marvel Universe.
    thanks to both of you! Like i said, i had a minor case, bad cough and fever and... that's about it. And yeah if Alberta had not changed their testing criteria when they did, i would not have been able to get tested in time to catch it so would have to rely on antibody testing later, so there's probably a lot of people out there like 'well, i think i might have had it....' but with no way to confirm. Could have definitely been worse though. I had stocked up on food so i was able to literally go an entire month without shopping except one delivery order to my door for some vegetables (there is a grocer named Spud here that delivers to your door, but they are all like organic and stuff, very big environment focus with them, so can be a bit pricey, but good in a pinch. also they do have some things you can't get in regular stores here)

    I was just using the recent events in the comics, as to why it could have a worthyness enchantment. Stormbreaker has that as part of it's enchantment, so if a weapon was forged from a chunk of it, it would likely inherit that enchantment, is all. also, yeah, story reasons for the moment, if Loki is taking Thor's place, then... well, it just kinda fits, especially after he lifted Mjiolnir last issue, I am sure that's going to come into play at some point, and I think attaching the worthyness enchantment to a weapon that better suits him is a nice compromise and has the side benefit of not necessarily having Thor lose his hammer again so soon after the last time, and I do think it could help Loki to have something keeping him on the right track. And I just think smashing Stormbreaker has to have a point behind it beyond showing that Thor was behaving badly, and just putting it back together and nothing else would seem like a bit of a copout, imo. But if they could use it as an opportunity to make a second weapon out of it... then smashing it could have a bit more to it.

    BUT because, in my hypothetical situation, it is just a chunk, possibly just a small one, it could be that the enchantment is lessened, (maybe not like, completely unmovable like Mjolnir or Stormbreaker, just... heavy enough that it's not really usable, or something) or you could add new enchantments in to the new weapon, like incorporate the Casket of Ancient Winters to incorporate the frost giant thing and build off the end of WotR, or maybe also use the pieces of Gram if that's still around to have that enchantment again, or something new... so it could be a bit of old and a bit of new, which could represent the whole situation too.




    Donny Cates did his book club with his wife again this week, normally, because they are talking about other people's books and all, his own stuff doesn't come up much, but this week Megan read a Dr Strange book, and it came out while talking about it, that, though she loves Loki, (hopefully this means he will treat Loki well to please her) and is married to Donny, she has not read his Dr Strange story! so they talked about that a bit, and in a future episode they will have her read that, so that should be interesting. Also, during the questions section, someone asked if Loki and Thor's relationship would be explored more in his Thor story and he said "of course" and that it would really start issue 7 or issue 9.

    Also, they are getting a dog soon, a beagle and they are naming it Bats, so that's adorable. And, go give it a vote up if you could, Cates has been targeted by Comicsgaters because he told them to go fuck themselves on twitter like a year ago, and that got him on their shit list, so that's why it has so many dislikes
    Last edited by Raye; 05-10-2020 at 02:05 PM.

  4. #334
    Spectacular Member Karabaja's Avatar
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    I dig a soul weapon, just not the one made of hate. He really should be past that by now. And even more I dig the Casket of Ancient Winters (preferrably reshaped into a blade weapon, just for the coolnes factor) for multiple reasons. First, it would be a nice symbolic reminder of his final emergence as a hero in WOTR. Second, it could also sybolize his acceptance of his frost giant heritage (he really should be past denying that, too). And finally, it has connections with Verity via her father.

    Oh my I can't wait to see how things go between him and Thor, and on the other hand, I'm awfully anxious.

  5. #335
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    yeah, I just feel like any enchantment should reflect his present and future, rather than his past. If it's more about his past, then i fear it could pull him back down that path, and I don't want that for him.

    It had actually completely slipped my mind the connection Verity's family has to the casket, that makes them not making use of it seem like more of a waste, even if it's appearance at the end there was kind of out of the blue. I think the Casket disappearing after the end of WotR was definitely a missed opportunity, for sure. Despite it being pulled into the story kinda randomly with no buildup, it does fit him, especially after being made king of the frost giants. The only thing I don't really like is the movie synergy aspect, I just kinda consider them separate, and want them to follow their own paths, not really take too much from the movies, I guess i worry that if they go too far in aping the movies, we'll lose the intereting character we've gotten in the comics in favor of a duplicate of movie Loki. but... it does fit with what happened. Though to be fair, we only got 5 issues of the solo, so it might have gone there eventually, and it may still yet in Thor. He can't really have Heimdall's sword, so the Casket is his best connection to that moment when he killed Laufey.

    I was thinking, and i am pretty sure i used this example before, but i think it could work particularly well with the chunk of Stormbreaker idea. i think it would be cool to do another pattern welded blade, but rather than the more random whorls of Gram, go for a wavy pattern, like these:




    where the Stormbreaker chunk could be forged into the wavy pattern in the middle, and in the comics it could stand out more than these real life examples since Stormbreaker is gold. and as a bonus, it's distinctly Norse. those are modern recreations, but they are based on old Norse and Germanic swords, Norse blades were often quite beautiful, with the patterns in the steel. And the ones with the wavy pattern down the middle were called Snake or Serpent Swords, very fitting for Loki. They used steel with different carbon content to get the different tones, but let's just say it could work with Uru or whatever Stormbreaker is made with too.

    With the hilt on, Norse swords typically had short crossguards and broad ornate pommels, but you could definitely fancy it up to look cool, they were often ornately decorated.



    I personally favor something like the last one.

    (... I like swords...)

    And yeah, definitely want to see what he has planned for Thor and Loki. Issue 7, just for a reminder, is the most recently solicited issue, the one that had all the hands reaching for the hammer? so I think it will definitely be building on the Mjolnir situation.
    Last edited by Raye; 05-10-2020 at 10:31 PM.

  6. #336
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raye View Post
    Tho i agree a sword or dagger fits him better, what you're describing is old Loki. Loki right now is not driven by 'hate and betrayal' he's put that behind him, or at least is trying very hard to, and I think it would be nice to reinforce the growth he's undergone rather than go back to his old motivations that led him down a bad path. His motivations right now have more to do with trying to escape his old role, or fate in general, and that will likely continue. It's likely he has a good role now, so it's a step up for sure, and I think he'd realize that, but it still means his destiny is not really his own. I am not sure how you could use that to power a weapon though.



    honestly they are probably about equal, but they utilize magic in different ways, so it is a bit hard to do a straight comparison, and of course Loki is also a god, so has that going for him on top of the magic.


    I was just using the recent events in the comics, as to why it could have a worthyness enchantment. Stormbreaker has that as part of it's enchantment, so if a weapon was forged from a chunk of it, it would likely inherit that enchantment, is all. also, yeah, story reasons for the moment, if Loki is taking Thor's place, then... well, it just kinda fits, especially after he lifted Mjiolnir last issue, I am sure that's going to come into play at some point, and I think attaching the worthyness enchantment to a weapon that better suits him is a nice compromise and has the side benefit of not necessarily having Thor lose his hammer again so soon after the last time, and I do think it could help Loki to have something keeping him on the right track. And I just think smashing Stormbreaker has to have a point behind it beyond showing that Thor was behaving badly, and just putting it back together and nothing else would seem like a bit of a copout, imo. But if they could use it as an opportunity to make a second weapon out of it... then smashing it could have a bit more to it.

    BUT because, in my hypothetical situation, it is just a chunk, possibly just a small one, it could be that the enchantment is lessened, (maybe not like, completely unmovable like Mjolnir or Stormbreaker, just... heavy enough that it's not really usable, or something) or you could add new enchantments in to the new weapon, like incorporate the Casket of Ancient Winters to incorporate the frost giant thing and build off the end of WotR, or maybe also use the pieces of Gram if that's still around to have that enchantment again, or something new... so it could be a bit of old and a bit of new, which could represent the whole situation too.



    Donny Cates did his book club with his wife again this week, normally, because they are talking about other people's books and all, his own stuff doesn't come up much, but this week Megan read a Dr Strange book, and it came out while talking about it, that, though she loves Loki, (hopefully this means he will treat Loki well to please her) and is married to Donny, she has not read his Dr Strange story! so they talked about that a bit, and in a future episode they will have her read that, so that should be interesting. Also, during the questions section, someone asked if Loki and Thor's relationship would be explored more in his Thor story and he said "of course" and that it would really start issue 7 or issue 9.

    Also, they are getting a dog soon, a beagle and they are naming it Bats, so that's adorable. And, go give it a vote up if you could, Cates has been targeted by Comicsgaters because he told them to go fuck themselves on twitter like a year ago, and that got him on their shit list, so that's why it has so many dislikes
    Oh no I most definitely don't want Loki's weapon empowered by his very undesirables past "evil" exploits of betrayal and jealousies etc. This is about moving him in the most positive direction the same way Mjolnir did for Thor when he became worthy. I particular love the idea of incorporating that and the Casket of Winters somehow, since Loki is both Laufey and Odinson. It's something that is most unique to him.

    It sounds nice to have a definite starting point regarding a brotherly centric story but I suspect that the upcoming issues before that will be peppered with little teasers like Loki's hammer lift. Perhaps that's when Thor finds out about Loki's worthiness and is forced to relook/reevaluated his stance on Loki after what he did in the first issue. It should be interesting. He's so used to Loki not living up to his expectations, even during AoA, which was their last big blowout (???) and now the hammer is telling him that this time, Loki's face turn may actually stick and I wonder how he'll feel about that really after all of these years. I don't think this means he'll lose the hammer like he did during Jane's stint.
    Last edited by rpmaluki; 05-11-2020 at 12:26 AM.

  7. #337
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    OK, I want to explain where i'm coming from on this, cus i realized it was another case where it makes sense in my head, but i probably didn't explain why very well.

    So, end of WotR, we got 'the Thor makes the hammer' thing, but obviously, in the absence of that happening, the 'Thor' just inherits the hammer, like Jane did, though she did not really occupy the role for that long, she was sort of like a temp. I don't think it necessarily has to be literally a hammer, Sigurd had Gram, a sword. Just, Thor had been in the role long enough that the hammer had become associated with both him and the role, and 'hammer' kinda rolled off the tongue a lot easier than 'weapon' or something. I also don't think 'makes' has to mean literally forged it. Thor never physically made Mjolnir, until he reforged it recently, it wasn't even made specifically for him, he wasn't even born yet when it was made, (at least according to the most recent stuff, i know there is a lot of contradictory stuff there) but he did define what it represented with his actions in the role. Same with Gram, really, the reason King Loki gave it to Sigurd to use was because the story attached to a heroes blade gave it a sort of power, he needed it to be wielded by the first hero of Asgard to make it truly complete. They are weapons, but, probably more importantly, they are symbols, and that is the aspect they make. It's a more metaphorical 'making' at work. Anyway. My point is. What if this is why Mjolnir is getting heavier, and making a new weapon is also how to fix that? If it is the case that Loki is the new hero of Asgard, but so far has not been acknowledged as such and lacks a weapon to 'make' because Thor fucking broke Gram, that may be why Mjolnir is kind of being drawn to him, and may be forcing the issue by getting heavier for Thor. The problem isn't so much that Thor won't hand over Mjolnir, it's that he won't hand over the role, now that he's King of Asgard. But because of how he 'made' it, Mjolnir is a symbol of that role, so it may be that the hammer wants to go to the new role holder and is forcing the issue. BUT if a new weapon is made that Loki can make his own and define with his actions, as his own symbol for that role, then Mjolnir may stop getting heavier, for Thor, because it is no longer needed to act as a symbol for the role, the new weapon has taken it's place, so it can retire in a sense and continue to be Thor's special buddy.

    In a broad sense, I don't think Loki's special weapon needs a worthiness enchantment, but I just think the way the story is going so far, the story beats we've seen, with Loki lifting Mjolnir, Thor breaking Stormbreaker, i think it could fit. I also think it would help him prove himself to people if they were aware that the weapon had the same enchantment, if he's able to lift it then they will be better able to trust him.

    Also, we do seem to be mostly in agreement about the Casket of Ancient Winters. I think that would be cool. (literally )

    And yeah, I am sure there will probably be more teases leading up to this, but likely no more Thor and Loki interacting specifically until issue 7, because Thor's way on the other side of the galaxy dealing with the Black Winter and all. Cates also said 7 at first and then kinda backed that up and said 9, so I take that to mean that there may be some Thor and Loki stuff in 7, but it doesn't really get to the meaty stuff until 9.
    Last edited by Raye; 05-11-2020 at 12:58 AM.

  8. #338
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    Had a little look at Cates' twitter, which I do every few days, (along with a few others) and nothing about Loki specifically in his recent tweets, but there is this: https://twitter.com/Doncates/status/1261273820876414976 which makes me feel a bit more certain I am on the right track with all my 'roles' speculation. Also, the timeline is coming into focus. He said on the Book Club I linked to before that Thor and Loki's relationship would be explored starting in issues 7-9, and here, he says that issue 10 is a 'game changer' in response to someone asking him about Thor's new role as king of Asgard, and the existential questions surrounding that... So could that be the issue where Thor has to acknowledge his old role has to be filled, but not by him, (at least, not while his is king) and Loki takes over the role officially? If so, actually a little sooner than I was anticipating. Even though, yes, i realize that's like 6 issues off, half a year... I do still hope that Loki can get his own weapon, though, like we were discussing before, I've kind of grown attached to the idea of a new sword for him.

  9. #339
    Spectacular Member Fanto.mx's Avatar
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    Donny Cates is the latest guest on Quesada's "morning" show:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZL3V8v36KQ

  10. #340
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    Nice! yeah I just listened to this. So it's long, but some interesting things of note related to Thor/Loki:

    He was signed to an exclusive with Marvel like, one issue (written, not published) into his Dr Strange run, for the express purpose of making sure he would be available to take over Thor. So, he got the Thor gig years ago, while he was writing Dr Strange, and was talking with Jason Aaron during that time about what Aaron was doing, and what would come out of his run etc. so I think it's definitely a safe bet to think that he laid some groundwork for his Thor run in Dr Strange, AND probably very safe to assume that, as we have been speculating, he will be using a lot of things Aaron set up in his run, like the roles, and the stuff happening in Valkyrie may be there at Cates' request as well. It also means, he says, that he's been able to just kinda think about what he would do with Thor for like 3 years, so he has a ton of stuff planned, and ought to be fairly well thought out. And, actually, he flat out says right after, that said seeds planted in Dr Strange and Thanos are leading somewhere big, so sounds like some things from Dr Strange, likely involving Loki since he's now writing Thor, will be coming back up in his upcoming stuff. Later, he gets asked a question about Thor's elder god lineage, and Cates says to read issues 8 and 9, and then the arc following that. Sounds like the horror arc is Elder God related, somehow. Is asked if Beta Ray Bill will get a new weapon, and Cates says he "wouldn't have broken it if he didn't have plans to give him something new and better" and that it is addresses in issues 7 and 8. then asked if he will follow up on Loki lifting Mjolnir, (I mean, I think this one is obvious that he will, but whatever) and/or give Loki a mohawk (lol! presumably because, as he's being asked this, Cates wife is literally shaving his head into a mohawk) he says "I mean, Loki would look good with a mohawk..." and then reflects that he already gave Beta Ray Bill and Groot mohawks. Then continues, saying "It is pretty weird that Loki was able to pick up that hammer" and that it's tied to the hammer becoming heavier for Thor, but then he continues with some stuff not said in the comic, that sometimes the hammer is heavier for Thor, and sometimes it is light as a feather, and then sometimes Loki can pick it up, so what's going on, so... that's new information, which kind of can be gleaned from the comics, but isn't explicitly stated, and is interesting... And, once again, says that 'all magical hammer questions should be directed to Thor 7 and 8'

    So definitely sounds like issues 7-10 are gonna be massive, and based on previous tweets and comments, looks like 7-9 in particular deal with Loki, 7-8 with Mjolnir, Stormbreaker, and maybe new weapons being made and the worthiness question, and 8 and 9 onward with the new status quo, as well as some Elder God stuff, so.... I do think we're on the right track here.

    also, stumbled across this the other day and I really like these recap/reviews: https://www.xavierfiles.com/category...verviews/thor/

  11. #341
    Spectacular Member Karabaja's Avatar
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    I'm somehow getting the vibe that Loki won't be made into a villain all again. Or it's just me fervently hoping so.
    Every now and then I go to see Thor thread to see what their opinions about current events are, and if Loki gets mentioned, it's always as a villain. It's disheartening to think that this rather big fanbase probably wants him back being a bad guy, or see him cemented that way; it makes me worried if the writers will want to respond to their wishes and make it happen.

  12. #342
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karabaja View Post
    I'm somehow getting the vibe that Loki won't be made into a villain all again. Or it's just me fervently hoping so.
    Every now and then I go to see Thor thread to see what their opinions about current events are, and if Loki gets mentioned, it's always as a villain. It's disheartening to think that this rather big fanbase probably wants him back being a bad guy, or see him cemented that way; it makes me worried if the writers will want to respond to their wishes and make it happen.
    I'm not shocked by that. Many traditionalist Thor fans only want Loki as a villain and nothing more because it's what defined Thor for decades, the rivalry. For some, Loki shedding his old villain skin is quite unwelcome but I for one love it and want more of it and for the moment, Marvel (comics and MCU) wants to play with this version for a little longer and I couldn't be happier. I don't think it's all Thor fans that want to keep Loki a villain but for them, they can't help it. I feel it's like holding on to the past, what's familiar, a time when Thor was supposedly at his ultimate best. I think those unhappy with Thor today, will never be happy with non villain Loki.

  13. #343
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    I really am not getting the sense Cates is going to revert Loki. Ever since I heard he was the new writer on Thor, I've had faith that he probably wouldn't, because of how he handled him in Dr Strange. But beyond that, though Loki has appeared sparingly so far, the story beats we've seen, not to mention the things he's said in tweets and the Quesada thing and stuff, it really seems like he will be continuing the face turn. But yeah, as usual, even though we did see how he handled Loki in Dr Strange, it still kinda feels like we dodged another bullet, just like when any writer starts a new run with Loki. Just because it is rare in comics for something like this to happen, where character development of this kind, particularly with a character as prominent as Loki, is carried across and progressed under several different writers and books. I don't think each writer necessarily did what the previous one would have intended, exactly, (or what the fans expected) but they still went forward rather than backwards. (well, Aaron kinda went backwards a little, but not all the way, and I actually prefer what we have now to what was shown in the final issue of Agent of Asgard, so not broken up about it) And after comics adhering to the illusion of change for so long, it's like, I feel lucky to have been here to read it, because I live for this kind of character development, I really am into face turns and stuff. But it is rare in comics, unless the character is like some D lister no one really gives a shit about. I think that is a large part of why I have stayed invested in his story for so long, and he has become my fave in the past several years, so I just really hope they keep moving forward so i can continue to go on the ride with him.

    As for the Thor thread here, I stopped looking in it a while back, it's not my kinda place. It seems like the two threads have attracted fans who want very different things from the books. I'd rather devote my energy and time to posts in here speculating and stuff about something I love, and just have fun with it, than getting into an argument with people who seem to want something totally different, (tho, i do that sometimes, just... not all the time, that would be exhausting) and also seem to not be able to, or don't want to, see a lot of the themes and stuff that's building and being used. Tho I know they probably think we're way off base and seeing things that aren't there, but I'm still pretty confident in my speculation, at least in terms of the broad strokes. And like, I can get my Thor speculation done here, too, so whatever. The Thor fans here seem to have (mostly, I know there are some exceptions) been whittled down to fairly traditionalist types who want things to return to something like... whatever their favorite era was, probably varies, but prior to Aaron, and I'm pretty doubtful it's Fraction, so like JMS or earlier. And yeah, villain Loki is part of that formula. But it is probably not going to happen. Cates made it very clear here that he's building on what Aaron did, move in his own direction, sure, but building on where Aaron left things. And it seems like he intends to be on the book for years, if Marvel will let hm. They may get some epic feats out of his run (not something i give much of a damn about, personally, I am more concerned with the more personal aspects of a character, but some people sure seem to care a lot) which seems to be keeping some people happy for now, but i suspect it will all come around to bite Thor in the ass in a little while. Doesn't sound like Thor is going to stop being king of Asgard any time soon, even tho he will struggle with what it means for him, but it's probably not what came before.

    I don't think the thread here is necessarily reflective of Thor fans in general, though. I have encountered plenty of fans outside of CBR, on Twitter, Reddit, tumblr, or check those reviews I linked to above, who genuinely like the current direction a lot, seem to actually get it, and are excited about where things are going, and seem excited (though sometimes confused, if they haven't been following his story) about the Loki thing. I think it's just that communities tend to draw together people with similar thoughts, and as far as Thor goes, the traditionalists won out here.

    But on that note above, about Cates not moving backwards, I do think there will be a sense of recapturing the FEELING and some of the themes of the earlier Thor stories, though. I think something that is kinda cool about the whole roles situation is that though the archetypes of the roles may be similar, and they may face similar sorts of situations to what their predecessors faced, placing a new character in the roles sort of refreshes things so you can capture a feeling that is impossible to capture with the old role holders any more. Because Thor had become so ingrained in his role, it's hard to make anything feel new to him, and like Loki's betrayed everyone so many times it's lost it's sting. When Tyr did what he did in Valkyrie, it was like, it felt like a betrayal, but if Loki was there it would have just been 'meh, Loki doing Loki things again' you know? And each of them has things to figure out about their new positions, lessons to learn, relationships to build or explore. It just feels fresher, but at the same time, it is very similar in general shape and feel to earlier Thor stories, it's just that because the experiences are new for the characters, it has the potential to feel more engaging as a reader, I think. Thor's played the hero, and been betrayed by Loki, and butted heads with the All-Father many many times, but for Loki, this will be a lot of firsts for him, same for Thor as king of Asgard etc. But I don't think that's what the more traditional fans are after. But it could be a cool way to draw in some new readers.
    Last edited by Raye; 05-19-2020 at 05:01 AM.

  14. #344
    Spectacular Member Karabaja's Avatar
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    I agree with everything you said about Aaron, but what worries me is King Thor story. Loki eventually did go back to his evil side, worse than ever, and even though he did have a kind of redemption in the end, it's still worrying to me that Cates might start that heel turn in his run, since it's obviously how Aaron imagined things to go.
    On the other hand, Aaron also had Loki having a vision of that future and he was horrified by it, so perhaps the intent was to set Loki on a path of actively working to avoid that chsin of events.

  15. #345
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    I'm a fairly new comic book reader and my pull list is very and I mean very minimalist at this stage I may see things in a limited way. So I end up spending more time as an observer than a participator on message boards and one thing I have noticed it that there is an aversion from long time comic book readers across the board towards changing the status quo or more accurately moving it forward no matter how logical that concept may be . What Cates is (likely) intending, showing Thor as King is logical. So much of Odin's reign is "old guard" and it would be interesting to things from Thor's new perspective and that does include seeing him away from his long standing champion-defender role. How he got to this point was sure bumpy but it's better to let it play out in it's entirety (Bendis is attempting the same thing with Superman but probably with little finesse since plenty of folks HATE his run but I'm those few who are genuinely curious about seeing the character on a path never trodden before).

    What's great is that we get to see Loki in the similar transitional position but we're more accepting of the changes by comparison, despite there being those Loki fans who truly prefer him in his villain mode. I do think these comic book characters could do with a little shaking up, something that pushes them in a forward motion, character growth or regression in some instances, as long as it's done progressively and more importantly logically. It's an opportunity to tell new stories and there's nothing wrong with that.

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