Loki Appreciation 2020

[Lambadelta]

He wasn't even in any movies between 2014-2015. TTDW was in 2013 and TR was in 2017. So basically people didn't like he had his own Solo? I still don't see how that stopped other villains from not getting the spotlight though.

[Raye]

Ok, i never saw that thread, at least not recently, so wasn't aware of the timing of the posts. Still, though. But yeah, in 2015, he was in his solo, that was about it. and before that he was Kid Loki-fied for a while, so... yeah, still doesn't make a lot of sense, because Loki was still not preventing other characters from getting exposure.

To be fair, Loki appears more than some characters, even some characters with long histories, and he has appeared more since 2010 or so than he had before. (but still nowhere near as much as some others) So I can kinda get some people being mad when they see him appear in 4 books a month (for a few pages each, amounting to not even a full issue's worth of pages, but still, some characters appear for no pages a month) while their fave sits in limbo. But, i mean Marvel has thousands of characters, it is just not possible for them all to appear all the time, there will always be a bunch of characters in limbo, sometimes for years at a time, sucks when it's a fave of yours, but it happens. Characters go in cycles of use and disuse, depending on a number of factors, and that's just how it goes, imposing some sort of quota or restriction on how often characters are used would not result in good stories. It would result in a lot of characters like 5 people give a damn about getting dredged up for their mandatory appearance for the year, and 99% of the audience still not giving a shit about them. Loki (or any other character that happens to be getting some attention lately) is not the reason some other character isn't appearing, he's just going through some stuff that makes him interesting to use for stories, plus some additional exposure from the movies and stuff. The writers just use who they like, and who will fit the story, and the charactets are not interchangeable, for the most part. A few maybe could be, I mentioned before i think it might have been the case that Malekith took Loki's place in the story, you could probably replace old-school Loki with either Malekith or Enchantress for some other stories with some tweaking, and now Tyr, but only quite recently due to events in Valkyrie. Modern Loki tho is a lot harder to think of a standin, because his part in most of the stories recently kind of depends on the 'used to be a bad guy, but is trying to be a good guy' aspect, and.... there just aren't that many of them, especially if you also need a character with Loki's particular abilities, connection to Asgard, and/or that particular sense of 'whose side is he really on?' thing that he was doing recently. anyway, yeah, i get being disappointed when your fave is stuck in limbo, but it's not going to be fixed by limiting Loki's panel time. (or that of any other character)

And yes, Loki lifting Mjolnir, assuming that wasn't some kind of fakeout, will result in Loki getting a lot more panel time over the next while. But again, that's not a story where you could really substitute him with someone else. He's the one who has had the build up to this over the past several years, and him taking on the role would be VERY different story from someone else taking it. I know some people will say other characters would be more deserving, like Sif, or Bill, or Vlostagg, or whoever, same as they did with Jane. But substituting Loki for them would result in a completely different story, probably not the one they wanted to tell.

Curious to see how that arc plays out, though, for sure. And not just because of the Mjolnir thing. Cates has said that this next story, which we are getting tidbits of info about now, was what he had initially pitched as his first arc, but it was considered too dark to lead off with, so, you know, they went with the universe ending, Thor being forced to destroy planets in order to save it, and seeing his 'true death' for a lighter start. So wile it may mean good things for Loki in the end, it sounds like it will be a rough time. I'm betting that no one will want to give Loki a chance, but he'll end up saving the day in the end, though. I could see them wanting to have all the characters wondering who the person who will lift the hammer will be, and being stumped while the audience (and Loki) knows the whole time, and use that time whil the character are figuring it out to show their reaoning as to why they are going that way, maybe have Loki do something in the story to help prove himself to the doubters. Also it occurred to me that the title, 'Prey For Your God' could also point to Thor himself being corrupted somehow, and he is the one doing the hunting? dunno, but apparently it's gonna be grim.

It might be that Thor is mad because of what happened in Valkyrie. Hard to say how much Cates will want to use what happens in that book in the pages of Thor, though. but if Tyr is the new 'Loki', then that's a pretty big development that will HAVE to be used in the main Thor book at some point, you would think, same as with Heimdall dying and Sif taking his place, so it might be. If Tyr was using him as a puppet i could see Thor wanting to kind of reassert his position, but that doesn't really explain his behaviour to Loki in particular, it depends on how things in Valkyrie play out

Anyway, this was rumored for a while, but apparently Taika Waititi just kiiiiiiinda confirmed that Loki will indeed be back for the next Thor movie:



also, says he did not know that Marvel intended to kill off Loki in Infinity War, which kinda sucks for him.

[Lambadelta]

I’m not sure how I feel about that to be perfectly honest with you. I have to admit I’m one of those who didn’t really enjoy TR and I didn’t really like Loki’s or Thor’s portrayal in the movie. I also felt it ignored continuity from the first two films. I also didn’t like what they did to Hela. I also preferred the more darker take on the Thor films which the first two had rather than the comedic angle. This is only my opinion of course.

But really if Loki is only in the movie to be made fun of and made to look weak, I’d rather he not appear in the film at all.

I think Thor was just angry at Loki for hitting a sore spot. As Cates pointed out, Loki just knows how to push Thor’s buttons, and even though the intention this time was good, it still made Thor angry because he didn’t want to know. The only question is what was the reason behind Thor’s anger that he would throw Mjolnir at Loki like he did? Thor often acts before thinking but as I once mentioned, I don’t think that Thor was the one to stop Mjolnir like he claimed he did, and I think he was fully intent on hitting Loki with Mjolnir. So I do think there is a bigger reason why he acted like he did but I don’t think it necessarily has anything to do with Loki, it was just that Loki was the one to bring up the subject that Thor himself is trying to ignore.

Yeah, I’ve seen Cates mention that the second arc is meant to be really dark. I didn’t know it was meant to be the first arc though. I think it would be a twist if Thor does dark either through corruption or maybe even Thor losing himself due to what is happening in the first arc. In fact I think the second option would be more interesting because we could get to see a real character struggle where Thor’s character is concerned which of course in the end he wins but hopefully it would provide Thor with some well needed lessons. Also I really like the idea of dark Thor and what type of dynamic he would have with current Loki or anyone in general. Although of course I want Thor to return to his good old self.

I actually do wonder how Cates will do the whole everyone knowing that Loki can life Mjolnir, of course if that is the case, and how he will go about it. I think the main question if though will Thor try everything in his power to stop Loki from having Mjolnir, we know from the solicits that he wants to keep Mjolnir in Asgard due to its power but there’s only so much he can do before it eventually comes into Loki’s hands.

[Karabaja]

It would be interesting if it turns out that the reason Loki ended up in Raft in his book was linked to the events in Valkyrie and/or Thor. I know it's extremely unlikely to be the case, but it would be nice to see the writers having their stories linked together like that.

[rpmaluki]

I HATE Thor:Ragnarok, for a lot of reasons like Hela as Loki's sister, (I would have preferred they not be related at all as they did with Sleipnir ), the off characterisation (Loki's in particular), the tone of the whole story (it's RAGNAROK for crying out loud) and the flippant way that Waititi guy wiped out Asgard and Thor's supporting cast like they were red shirts (thankfully Sif could still be alive). That's enough ranting.

As for the other Loki, I think the easiest way to solve the disconnect between Loki's own book where he and Thor were on great terms and Thor's new book where Thor' rather pissed off at Loki for some reason is to slip the Valkyrie book between them. Perhaps playing out this arc will make that issue #1 palatable and explain why Thor would be so mad as to throw his hammer at Loki. Another thing, it is curious that we never saw Thor's reaction when the hammer stopped mid flight and not to step on some Thor fans or anything but the guy's never struck me as overly intelligent (obviously he's not stupid) but I feel like if the mjolnir stopped on its own, or Loki's sudden worthiness played a part in preventing his face stopping the hammer's flight, Thor should have picked up on it but he's too self absorbed at the moment to pay any real attention and considering his rather long winded unworthy arc at the hands of Aaron, I get his little obsession with holding on to the hammer at all costs and ignoring all signs to the contrary. It's possible for him to think that he didn't really want to hit Loki hence nothing happened after he threw the hammer.

As to Loki's worthiness, I don't think there's any trickery involved from his end. The hammer or the enchantment around the hammer underwent a makeover when Aaron made Jane worthy and Cates (and Kibblesmith before him) is simply cashing in on that. What it means for Loki (and Thor) going forward? I love the idea but my long standing issues still remain. I wish he still had his solo so we'd get the full gamut of character beats of Loki being worthy. Without that, the story will remain largely Thor's story and considering how long Jane wielded the hammer, I don't see the same happening with Loki. I'm not talking about how long Loki will remain worthy but rather, seeing Loki as the main hammer wielder in the same vein as Jane. I don't think that is what is about to happen, even the little tease we saw when he lifted mjolnir basically tells us that "it" is a tale for another time. Loki may remain worthy for the next 50 or hundred years but we won't fully see what that's like if he continues to play second fiddle to Thor and shamefully does not have his own book. Whatever we end up getting, I hope he still remains "Loki" when he gets the chance to use the hammer. I don't want him transforming like he did during AoA or like Jane did. I want people to actually know it's Loki that holds mjolnir, no tricks, no spell, just him. I want to enjoy that for as long as it lasts. And yes, I'd love it if he got Gram back.

[Raye]

I think we're really pushing it for having the timing line up for explaining the Raft thing, at this point. Could work, but I have big doubts they'll go there, suspect that will just be left unanswered. But hopefully we will see more of some other things like Drrf and Verity. Verity could be one other person who knows, besides Loki himself and maybe Sif. I mean she didn't see it, but he could tell her and she'd believe him.

I liked Ragnarok, I don't think it was making fun of Loki so much as using him in a humorous way, I don't think he got it any worse than any of the other characters, anyway, just have to roll with the broader characterizations and it's fun, and there was heart under it all.

I still think the reaction from Thor was extreme, even if it did tick him off, but it 's a bit hard to say without seeing Thor and Loki interact again how much is what Loki said, how much is Thor's inner troubles, if something else happened that hasn't been revealed yet, or just Cates' take on Thor... we've seen his Loki before, but not really his Thor... I hope it's not just how Cates writes Thor tho, cus I like Thor being, you know, nicer. I'm ok with him going through some shit, but I hope this isn't just how Thor is now.

And yeah, it's a bit of an odd choice to reveal to the readers, as well as at last one character, before the arc even starts who the new hammer boy probably is, it's like, now we can't really have a 'who will it be?!' story, despite the cover/solicit kinda reading like that. So either there is some kind of twist and this is a red herring, (I hope not, after literal years of teases, which may be the reason it was revealed this early) or it's more about the hows and whys than anything else, and how people will react, and maybe interpersonal drama like maybe Loki can see that no one takes him seriously even tho he knows damn well he can.

I hope/think we still will get a new solo, but they're waiting for the hammer pickup so it has that as a hook, so we might still get more of a look inside Loki's head about this, though maybe a bit delayed. It could also allow him to keep the position longer, while leaving Thor focused on Thor learning to deal with being the king of Asgard. I read Chip Zdarsky's Daredevil recently and it's really damn good, and does well with exploring Matt's inner self, so I think I want him to do it, but I'd want it a bit lighter in tone, like somewhere between Daredevil and his Howard the Duck, cus I think Loki needs to have some fun with this. He's been through so much awful stuff to get to this point, I'd like for him to actually catch a break and be allowed to have some fun, I don't think his life should just be an endless tragedy. And that would also set the stage for the Loki/Daredevil crossover we still need because Daredevil helped to save Loki's life by throwing him that sword.

[Lambadelta]

I think the humour could have been better handled in TR and tbh whether good intent or not, how some of the characters were written was just terrible. I have nothing against anyone liking TR of course, everyone has their own likes and dislikes, but it wasn’t for me. I think what annoyed me most which the exception of characters being thrown under the bus was the lack of continuity to the previous films.

Yeah, I think it would all depend on how much Loki’s solo is used in Cates and even Aaron’s work. Aaron has included Drrf so there’s that but so far there’s no sign that Cates is using anything from the solo. It’s unlikely we will see why Loki ended up in the raft but it’s most likely it was down to some misunderstanding. After all he was still able to use his powers while in the raft. I would have liked to know how he got there as well but I guess in the long run it’s not really important.

I mean Thor did act in an extreme way but Loki wasn’t the only one who endured Thor’s wrath, if he was then I would say that it’s likely Loki could have done something before but I think that’s extremely unlikely.

On how long Loki could have the hammer, if he is indeed worthy of course. I always feel I have to elaborate on that for some reason. I don’t know why though. Anyway, I don’t think we can look at the Jane-Thor thing in the same way to how things are going to play out here. For one Thor is in a completely different position, one of great power while when he became unworthy during when Jane-Thor had the hammer he had lost power (or so he thought) and a position of power. Also, this isn’t an unworthy storyline for Thor either, as confirmed by Donny Cates. I mean if our guess is right it’s more of a tug of roles kind of scenario where Thor wants to play both king and hero, but he can only choose one path and Mjolnir is telling him so. Of course, this could be completely wrong, but I feel there must be a reason why Mjolnir is becoming heavier than just simply not allowing Thor to lift it any longer. I think Thor has to come to the realisation on his own.

Yeah, it will be a bit hard to see Loki be the hero wielding Mjolnir if he only appears as a second fiddle in Thor’s book. I do think he will get a new solo down the line though, call it wishful thinking but it makes sense. However, if he doesn’t I don’t think Loki will be necessarily held back because you never know he may join a team.

I would like to see Loki and Daredevil interact. I wonder if Loki knows it was Daredevil though, probably.

[Raye]

To be fair, Cates hasn't really had much opportunity to use anything from the solo. I mean i guess Drrf could have been there when the hammer came crashing through the ceiling, but that would have kinda gone against the whole drinking alone and feeling sorry for himself/being bored thing going on. But Loki is still king of Jotunheim, and his outfit/hair and his throne match what was in the solo, so it hasn't contradicted anything, at the very least.

And yeah, at first it seemed like he was targeting Loki, but yeah, you're right, after attacking Bill and then Sif, it's clearly bigger than just Loki, Loki just apparently picked a very bad time to get under his skin.

And I mean, it is all still speculation we could be way off base about where this is headed, but it sure does feel like it all fits pretty well. And I think Loki could have it a fairly long time, but it depends on a few things. First, it needs to be something that comes into play in other books, namely Avengers (and there have been so many little hints dropped about this, that I think Aaron has planned on him joining since the beginning) and a new solo. The solo has to sell better than the last one to hang on for more than a couple years, and the hook of him having Mjolnir would certainly help there, a lot more than the King of Jotunheim, especially if Cates sets it up with a strong arc. But a higher profile creative team would also help a lot, someone that can pull people in based on their name and body of previous work. It also depends on what's done with Thor as king of Asgard being well received, if sales there tank because fans just reject him in the new role, it will get reverted, maybe not like instantly, but sooner than they may have otherwise intended, it's up to Cates to make that interesting enough to hook people. Also it relies on editorial and Cates being brave enough to break with the illusion of change and allow things to stick long term.

Oh I am sure Loki probably knows who threw him that sword, he must have heard somewhere that Daredevil had the sword during the WotR, so... I just think it would be nice to see him return the favor, somehow.

I finally got around to updating the playlist! https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...l6bNYuxpaJ68vx It previously stopped at 'Legend of the King' juuuust as Cates' run started, so if you want to start listening to the newest stuff: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p03a...&index=32&t=0s


I picked a non-metal one to start with out of courtesey to the thread still net exactly mainstream tho....

I've been obsessed with Amigo the Devil lately, so added a few from him, including slipping one from him in early on, and nearly included Cocaine and Abel but I am holding out on that one, hoping for something later on with some kind of introspective moment with Loki. I added quite a few songs, because I figured I should include the Valkyrie stuff too. Was really happy I got to use some Ghost stuff this time. Love Ghost, and Square Hammer and Rats are 2 of their best. and 2 from Amorphis, another fave that I never really got to use much before because most of their songs are about Finnish mythology, so like, almost there but not quite! but these two were vague enough it fit (well, vague in terms of the finnish myth bit, but oddly specific for the stories at hand, what with a black winter and a tale of two brothers where one betrays the other as he falls to the dark side). but they're from very early in their career and later on, so it's almost like 2 different bands, they've changed a lot over the years. Oh, and I moved Worthy from it's previous place to fit for the hammer lift, cus... I mean, obviously. *edit - and i went back to give the earlier songs a listen, and decided Streets of Gold fit Thor better, so I moved that up. probably the most obscure song on the list, (they are a Canadian Atlantic folk/punk band) but you gotta admit, it fits... Also, just realized a couple songs during the Loki solo section got deleted from Youtube, so... coouple songs missing, don't quite remember what they were though. oh well. this is why I try to use the official versions, but... not always possible.

[Karabaja]

I discovered this song and Loki immediately comes to mind. A bit darker than what we want for him, but applicable.

[batnbreakfast]

Who had the best Loki? Aaron, Straczynski (?), Gillen or Simonson?

[Karabaja]

I can't make up my mind. Each of them viewed the character from a different angle and showed a different side of him. I'd say that both JMS and Gillen gave very extensive insight of his complicated inner world, and JMS is in my opinion superior in showing Loki's manipulation and scheme-making skills. But the Loki he mostly dealt with was kidLoki, not "our" Loki in the strictest sense of word, since he's a different person (which never made sense to me) than the rest of Simonson's/Gillen's/Aaron's Loki, who is one same person, though a bit recycled. If we're talking about the character which is more or less the continuation of a single entity I'd say Gillen.

[Raye]

I think all of them had strengths and weaknesses. I think Gillen had the largest impact on Loki's development, and got the ball rolling on his current depiction, (which is my favorite take on him, overall, like all together, from Gillen onward) so I liked his stuff a lo, like a whole lot, love JIM in particular, and I am grateful to him for getting things rolling, but as mentioned above Kid Loki is sort of a separate thing from the main Loki. And in terms of core Loki, I liked how Cates, in his Dr Strange story, kind of found a nice midddle ground between Ewing and Aaron's takes. Ewing was maybe a bit too soft for my takes, and he seemed to be looking for a way to excise Loki's past from his character, which I wasn't a big fan of, but I liked the meta stuff, I liked that he gave Loki a friendship with Verity, and I liked the tone overall. Aaron's take had him a bit too dark in terms of actions, but I really liked his voice for Loki. And Cates found the goldilocks zone, for me. It had the best bits from Ewing, Gillen and Aaron. (though Zelma kind of took Verity's place) It's a little hard to say from his Thor run so far how much of that will carry over to the newer stuff, though, the Sorcerer Supreme arc wasn't that long, so... but if he continues in Thor to write Loki the same way more or less as he did in Dr Strange, yeah. My main quibble wiht the Thor run is that it does sound like it will continue to be very dark and think that might be a bit overwhelming long term, so i hope he has some lighter stuff planned as well. And his Thor is a dick, but I am holding out hope there is an explanation for that which makes sense. But there is a reason Sorcerer Supreme Loki is my avatar. Gillen would be number two, though.

I discovered this song and Loki immediately comes to mind. A bit darker than what we want for him, but applicable.

nice! yeah it does fit well, will add it to the pool of potential songs. But yeah, seems more old school, though maybe some flashback or something will come up. or, I used some ones that were originally more for old-Loki for Tyr in the latest batch.

[Karabaja]

I just now realized i wrote "Gillen" meaning "Ewing". Arhg. I need a facepalm smiley face.

[Lambadelta]

I can’t really choose who’s my favourite. I think they have all been important for Loki’s development in a big way and we wouldn’t have current Loki without the input of all these writers.

I want to ask a question myself. If let’s say the whole Mjolnir thing is actually a red herring and it turns out that Loki isn’t actually worthy of lifting Mjolnir, meaning no hammer. What would everyone like Loki’s character arc and story to go?

[Karabaja]

Further the way it's been set for the past tenish years or so, as a hero in progress, as he described himself in Hulk. I'd like to see his kingship explored more. His relationships with other characters too, especially Thor and other Asgardians. It would be interested to see him trying to make amends with Sif; she's someone he'd royally screwed, and haven't as much as tried to apologize. I'd like to see more of him as the king of Jotunheim, we barely had a glimpse.